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Harsh truths for survivors that complain.
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thats simply not true. Yes killer is way easier now that Overpowered survivor mechanics have been balanced but thats not buffing the killer, its nerfing survivors
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I have a post that reorganizes the entire start of the game, to give a better experience to new players. You can find it in my discussions on my profile if you'd like to look.
Moving off of that, I think game time is a solid baseline to go off of. It'd factor about 30% of your games, the remaining 70% would be split unevenly between mmr, rank, win/loss per hundred games, average point value per hundred games, upvotes and reports, possibly even hours played per week/month. The concept would be that people who have played over X amount of hours are guaranteed to never play with people who have played less than Y amount of hours, while people with Z(Y<Z<X) hours could potentially play with either depending on the other factors. The more you play the closer you are to being able to play against veterans who know more if you're looking for a challenge, but if you don't play all that often but you're decent enough, you won't have to become frustrated because you hit red ranks after playing for a couple months.
It's definitely not a simple solution, likely some or all of what I've thought of don't mix well, or are easily exploited.
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No, but it does create more opportunities to earn BP. Usually one or more survivors will go out of their way to go and heal the downed survivor. In that time, I have usually popped a few gens or injured another survivor.
Going for 4K ASAP has always bagged me less BP (20Kish on average, 30Kish on a better ASAP match) By drawing the match out and making the survivors' lives hell I have managed to get an average of 50K+ BP. I have a hell of a lot more fun this way too.
Why rush to get less BP when killer que times are so awful at the moment?
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i was joking a little because what you said but ok.
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It would be cool if downing a survivor did get a little more BP. More BP is always good. 😅
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That kinda was the whole point of my post. All things said in quotations were things the other guy said. I literally end it with "basically, what I am trying to say, survivors are not overpowered"
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I'm always amused when survivors claim NOED "rewards the killer for failure."
Meanwhile, survivors are given free sprint burst as a reward for being hit throughout the entire game. especially amusing when you notice that it nullifies Clown's botttles.
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Finally someone is making sense
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Pip loss is a loss, pip gain is a win, double pip is practically destroying the other side. Which fits the outcome of games, fits most people's expectations of a win, because 9/10 times, the only time you get a double pip is having 3k's or more.
Black pips dont really fit in, but originally, black pips didnt exist. Black pips are the biggest reason why so many players are red rank when they shouldnt be. So I just see those as a participation medal. You did enough to not lose a pip in a game you lost.
Now, Mori's impact the outcome extremely for solo survivors, which is why I say Mori's are 10 times the problem that Keys are, even while considering myself to be an above average killer. Key's are only too strong if you consider a 4k to be a win(but lets be honest, if 4 survivors can fix all 5 gens without anyone being dead, you either lost or rely on late game perks too much). But you can easily gain a pip while forcing survivors to get out, but you cant even get a black pip when you're being Mori'd early game.
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i was just causally reading this thread but your comment made me reply because of how absurd it is. a two man swf with two other randoms is quite literally nothing. even if those two are god tier because they aren't going to be able to pull the full weight of the game on their shoulders. and thats not even taking into account what the two randoms are like. if the two randoms are average then maybe you'll get a 2k but if they're dogshit you're absolutely going to win that game because two man team simply cannot carry all that weight.
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"That friend that told you where the totem was, even if it wasn't in the spot he thought, still gave you the general location."
Ah yes, general locations, something thats already known for most players already and will practically be just as fast to locate as if you werent told the location. The biggest impact is that you know other people are going for that totem and thus spend less time wasted on travelling there. In fact, I tend to find totems faster based on killer behaviour than my teammates. If a killer pushes people away from a general location, without having hooked someone there or having a regressing generator there, there arent many reasons left for a killer to push people away from a location.
"However, it would have been more on luck if you did. That's the issue with SWF."
Kinda, like I said, killer behaviour is more telling than friends telling me. Yet, even with friends, it still is luck reliant unless they tell me exactly where it is. Lets say on average it would turn a 20% chance of finding the totem into 60%. However, as for luck depending things, the hatch is supposed to be luck depended, yet the killer has access to something thats very easy to pull off to take away any and all luck factors. Its supposed to be 60/40 yet any killer can turn that 60/40 into 100/0. SWF in general can decrease the odds without needing to use perks or items, yet, killer has the power to *fully remove* any luck factor by simply slugging. As long as things like slugging, camping and tunneling are practically uncounterable vanilla mechanics without using extremely strong survivor perks, SWF is not as big as a problem as killers claim it to be. Optimal SWF is a force to be reckoned with, agreed, but regular SWF's? They tend to be more favourable than a full random team, on average. Which was my point. The vast majority of SWF teams are better to face than a full random team. Full random teams dont have a weakness you can exploit and can be just as strong as any SWF team, while friends tend to protect the weaker links by tanking hits or hookstages.
"DS allows survivors to do objectives without fear of hooking. Unbreakable allows them to counter slugging."
If they do objectives, slug em. They might be able to pick themselves up, but they cant do objectives. Unbreakable isnt as strong as people think it is. Either that, or eat the DS if its still early game, rather a DS when there are 5 gens than when the gate is opened. Both are one and done deals. There are overall stronger perks to protect a specific person in the game, and perks that can decrease the length of games significantly if used properly. If DS and Unbreakable are one day no longer a decent combo, is the day that killers start bitching about the usage of relatively unused perks. So yeah, its not as strong as killers claim it to be. Its the strongest solo survivor combo by far, and it will significantly increase the lifespan of someone who otherwise would be dead, but thats it. Unbreakable doesnt mean you cant slug them, it only means they wont need someone else to pick them up and can be picked up faster(which rarely makes a difference, the oppertunity to pick someone up and the moment someone is healed 95% rarely happen at the same time).
Now as for the killrates, Suicides are not considered kills. Kills are anything that creates a skull. And yeah, it takes being farmed into account, because guess what? It happens in games, even high skilled players end up farming someone, because getting unhooked before getting in second stage is better to the team overall than getting 2 hook stages in 1 hook. Ofcourse there are downsides to it, depending on how early you unhook someone, but its significant enough to be included as it impacts the game for survivors immensely. Considering all maps have 55% killrate or more, Hawkins having a nearly 80% killrate because of very easy to access hooks on a small map. Even including all the factors, you would still expect a survivor sided map to be below 50%.
"BT is unlimited usage, so lets keep doing that!"
Only within a Terror Radius tho. People complain about BT even tho there are only 3 ways of it working. 1: killer is camping, or "patrolling"(which is a lie 99% of the time, as long as there is more than 0 generators left, staying close to a hook is not patrolling), 2: unhooking right after the killer turns around, which is a risk-reward play, and 3: luring the killer with you for a high risk high reward play that could very easily fail. Assuming the killer has an active Terror Radius. Having any form of undetectable or oblivious applied in the situation cancels them all out. Making BT weaker than DS conceptually, even though it can be infinitely repeated.
As for DS and Unbreakable, I mentioned before, its not as strong as killers claim it to be. The only reason they are hated so much, is because if there is a pesky survivor trying to ruin your fun, you know he/she will have DS and Unbreakable. That is the only reason I would consider DS Unbreakable to be too strong. But applied to the average game? It barely should impact your playstyle. At best it forces you to eat a 5 second stun or leave them slugged. I've never had a DS stun me when I didnt want it to and only 1 time that the DS allowed the survivor to crawl out unharmed, but I made the mistake of hooking a survivor who I already suspected to have DS too close to the gate without eating the DS first. I could have spend time hooking her as far away from a gate as possible, as you do have 50 meters you can walk before a survivor wiggles out.
As for Adrenaline, really? It requires not dying, having all 5 gens fixed or the hatch closed on you to work in the first place, only heals you 1 health state and gives you exhaustion, which means all other exhaustion perks are cancelled out. There is only 1 situation where that type of effect is a "second chance" and it's exactly at the moment you down a player with Adrenaline. Other than that, not really a second chance perk.
And while they could be a second chance for someone who ######### up, that doesnt mean they are second chance perks. In fact, blame the Beta killers for BT, DS and Unbreakable in the first place. But lets suddenly remove all those perks. Remove all "second chances". It would break the game. There are too many killers that are capable of easily tunneling and camping survivors without losing their map pressure too much. DS is working as a reason for killers to not rush a player out of the game, because it would make killers too strong. If you remove 1 player out of the game before 2 gens are fixed, you win as a killer. The game is balanced around 1v4 up untill about 2 generators left. Removing 1 player from the match before 3 gens are fixed is essentially giving killers a 100% win-rate and you might as well start the game with 3 players instead of 4. Perks like DS, Unbreakable and BT are NEEDED for killers to be balanced. Nerf 1 of them, and you break the game entirely, have all 4 survivors run them, and you give a killer a hard time at best. So what option would you pick? Have 1 player have relatively though times, or ruin the game for 4 people by making it practically a free win for killers, allowing only the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of survivors to be able to open up a gate against a killer who just played the game for 50 hours? I'd rather have 1% of killer matches to be super though, but beatable for killers, than making 99% of survivor games impossible.
"This is just incredibly wrong, here. Or lack the experience, I don't know. Sure, you'll have bad matches out there, but to say that perks don't account for that is silly. DH can extend a chase to twice as long when used correctly, for instance. All the second chance perks forgive mistakes, and can even be weaponized. This goes back to my original point, it's killers that play by the survivors given time, and that time can be shortened when you take into account meta builds."
I literally heavily implied that you would get a 2k if you were equally skilled as the survivor team as a whole, no matter their perks. Even including mistakes they made, even though mistakes are not fixable by perks, they either made the choice to let you chase them for DS, or they were unhooked against their will, both situations are not mistakes made by the survivor who ran DS. Let alone that 4x DS is equal in time as 1 Pop. Yet, I am fairly certain you would claim Pop is perfectly balanced. So how come that 4 perks that slow down the killer with 20 seconds total are more broken than a perk that removes 20 seconds of survivor progress everytime you hook someone? If DS needs a nerf, then Pop needs a nerf. They are mirror perks. If Pop is balanced, then DS is balanced. Unbreakable counters something that literally is a vanilla mechanic. No single gamer should be forced to lay on the ground for 4 minutes because no one picks him/her up. If Unbreakable gets a nerf, then slugging needs a nerf. BT counters camping in general and gives the unhooked survivor a larger range of running before they go down again. In combination, those perks are strong, but all those mechanics that killers have, are incredibly strong too. If you remove survivor combo's like DS and Unbreakable at this point, then campers shouldnt be able to down survivors while camping. Same type of logic. I tend to defend the ######### that DS and Unbreakable get, because killers forget why the perks are designed the way they are in the first place. They often are like "yeah, but 60 seconds is too long", well, is it? BT is 15 seconds, and you already have killers tunneling them and counting the timer to go down before they hit them again, the 60 seconds is a deterrent. Personally, if its super early in the game, I see the 60 seconds as a timer that I have to pick the survivor up. Having any DS burned before I plan out a 3-gen is a massive gamechanger. And yeah, it can be weaponized. But the only way it can be weaponized, is for the killer to be ignorant of the perks that survivors carry. Which is a lack of skill. If you cant figure out someone has DS and pick them up and get the DS, you fully deserve that DS stun because you made the mistake. There are 4 people to chase in a game, its practically impossible for you to have someone with DS be unhooked, down all 4 of them(randomly) and hook everyone but the unhooked survivor first, to still get DS'd. The only way for that to happen is if they were standing still, even if you had NOED and Bloodthirst T3 Nurse and Agitation. To get a surprise DS pre-EGC is to ignore the games factors. And there are many, but not infinitely many. During EGC, its a different story, but you really should have eaten those DS's when you had the chance. So no, its not wrong, its not lack of experience. Perks do not determine the outcome of the game. They can have a massive impact on how the game is played, and force you to play differently than you intended to play, but it does not change the outcome of the game. If you have higher skill, 2-4k's is the outcome depending on the existance of keys in the game, if you have lower skills, 0-3k is the outcome depending on the usage of Ivory Mori(all you need early game to change the outcome of the game from a loss to a win).
"Facepalmed at this. SWF gives a huge advantage, even if it's not always capitalized on. And the 'sweatiest SWF' will come out on top against the majority of the killer roster. There is a reason why Nurse, Spirit, Old Billy, and to a lesser extent, Freddy, are considered top of the class. Because they can manage the map, and keep even the best survivor players on their toes. Throw a Trapper against the best SWF, they'll be out the door in four minutes. Bubba? Plague? Deathslinger? Similar stories. Ignoring the impact SWF has is wrong."
Well, all I need to disprove this, is reference you to Truetalent's series of "Bubba is underrated". Not all games in there are against the highest of tiers of Survivors, but no SWF is without a weak link. I'm even confident to say that an SWF is only as good as their weakest player. Take down the weakest player and hook him as bait, and even the most optimal SWF will be disrupted if you ever seem to go after their weakest link. Optimal SWF knows the power of 4 survivors, and knows the difference in power when there is only 3 survivors. And even the strongest survivor will be weak in a 1v1. So against an SWF, optimally, you would want to work your way up fast. And yes, even Bubba can take them on. My point wasnt that they can be beaten by any killer. Not that they can be beaten by any player who plays killer.
"There is a reason why Nurse, Spirit, Old Billy, and to a lesser extent, Freddy, are considered top of the class."
Picked this one out, adding in Huntress too, and they are top of the class because they essentially allow people to lay back as a killer while survivors are forced to play focussed. Which makes them a problem, because like I said before: remove 1 survivor from the game early on, and the killer wins the game. No 3 man team can fix 4 generators against a killer unless the killer ######### up. No 3 man team can fix 3 generators and get all out alive. No 3 man team can fix 2 gens with at least swapping out hooks and be very likely on dead hook by the time the exit gates are powered. This fact alone, is why I consider keys to be quite balanced in the current state of the game and on the level of Ivory Mori, and why Ebony Mori is pretty much the only broken thing in the game. Any killer can kill a survivor early on, or at least have them on dead hook early on. Once you remove 1 survivor from the game, the cards fall down.
As for why I called them a problem, well, as the game originally was designed, killers were under a lot of pressure and try to kill 1 survivor as soon as possible, making the game easier and easier for them as time goes by, while for survivors it starts out easy and gets harder and harder as time goes by. Having a killer that is laid back from the start of the game, makes the game nigh-impossible in the end. Which is why Spirit is as hated as she is, because it allows people who cant escape green ranks with a Trapper, to easily reach rank 1, only to have them complain about survivors and claim how balanced Spirit is. Even though people who reached Red Ranks without Spirit, will practically refuse to play Spirit because there is no challenge left in there. Same with Doctor mains tho. I purposely depipped myself because I reached Red Ranks as a Doctor, and while I could handle my own with most killers, I didnt consider myself Red Rank level of killer yet. I am now almost back at red ranks while only having played Demogorgon(who I consider to be the worst killer, mechanically seen) with non-meta perks and am quite confidently say that I earned the red rank.
And yes, I acknowledge the impact SWF has on the gameplay, however, I also claim that SWF has no impact on the outcome of the game. If you win against an SWF, you would win against them as if they had 0 communication. The only difference is their playstyle, which, unless they are optimal players, are in the killer's favor. My point was that SWF itself isnt a problem that can change the outcome of a game. It changes the way the game is played.
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“Hi unbiased killer main here to say survivor OP and need nerfs, killers too weak and need buffs so I can 4K in my sleep.” ⬆️ 176 Vote Up
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Have you ever seen aryun and one friend play? Heck, one God tier survivor can carry a game, two can absolutely carry.
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carry the game how? sure, a god tier can loop for a while, but if the other survivors hide the moment they hear the terror radius, and dont do gens, the game aint going no where. i've had games where i run the killer for over 3 minutes and not one gen got done
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If you get people that are allergic to gens, you can't win. For the other 95% of games, one great survivor can definitely carry.
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As a survivor main i agree that other survivors should stop complaing but heres what i disagree with
Survivors do not have the advantage,if your playing against a really good killer that can end a swf in a heart beat than surly that means something
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