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killers who need rework and those who do not
Which killer do you think needs rework and which is perfectly balanced right now?
I start
Needs rework: clown, michael myers, the pig, trapper, pyramid, nurse, demo, deathslinger
Balanced: freddy, legion, spirit, hillbilly(before the ptb), leatherface(after the ptb), hag, oni, plague, wraith, doctor, ghostface, huntress
Comments
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Pig doesn't need a rework. Her kit is more than fine. If anything they could do a pass over her add ons and make them better so that her head traps are more of a threat. Outside of that though, she doesn't need anything.
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Micheal, slinger, and demo are fine.
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Clown and pig desperately need a rework. Everyone else is fine. But why choose Pyramid Head as a rework? He is a perfectly balanced killer, especially after the nerf he got.
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This list is awful. Clown is really the only I would say needs a rework. By rework I'm assuming they're getting their entire kit changed. Most killers just need small buffs. Also the obligatory Freddy and Spirit aren't okay, but honestly that argument just falls on deaf ears since, y'know, "survivor op".
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When i face or play him i feel he has little pressure on the maps, its power is good against loops but sometimes when you fail the survivor goes far enough and it's also difficult to handle
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This is a false dichotomy. Not all changes are an example of a rework and thus a Killer can be unbalanced but not need a rework.
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Rework is a very strong word, some killers desserve some addons tweaks at best. like pig.
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And in fact, because of the nature of reworks, it is possible for a Killer to be balanced but need a rework anyways.
Reworks are usually needed to solve issues that go beyond balance.
Pure balance issues can be solved with numbers changes after all.
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Reasons
michael: without accessories, he is the weakest killer in the game.
slinger: little pressure
demo: teleport power is very easy to counter
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This for sure. Freddy snares need a change/nerf. Spirit just needs an entire rework or to be gutted. I'd go as far to say Oni and Hag should be looked at as well.
It is nuts to me that they will nerf billy because instasaw / crack billy is overpowered but then you have topknot oni's and rusty shackle hags still running around.
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Slinger has top tier anti-loop. The only way you can escape is if he misses.
Demo has mobility and good/engaging anti-loop. This is why he's probably one of the favorites of the community.
Micheal can punish teams heavily. Tier 3 will wipe out an entire team if used right.
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I feel like rework is a bad description. I have a list for those who need buffs, nerfs, and reworks.
Rework: Legion, Trapper, Death Slinger (Hes balanced okay, but not fun to play against)
Buff: Pig,Wraith, Demo, Hag, PTB Billy, Nurse, Clown
Balanced: Myers, Doctor, Huntress, Plague, Ghost Face, Oni, PH, PTB Leatherface
Nerf: Freddy and Spirit
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Micheal doesn’t need a rework. He’s one of the more balanced killers outside of him being easily bullied if no one feeds him stalk early game
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I dont think any of them need a full rework, they just need tweaks to their numbers
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By rework I mean you need an upgrade for more pressure on the maps.
In red ranges these killers that I have mentioned are almost never used.
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Huntress will probably get the next add on pass. She’s the only killer left that doesn’t follow the 2 Ultra rares, 4 very rares etc. Format that other killers have.
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Agreed. And I did even make a thread to cover most of those issues.
There are a few small buffs that I'd like to see in general, such as removing the Great result from the box skill checks.
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At my point of view, none of what you said needs a rework. In fact, i would be changing a bit the Nurse since he's the most underrated killer after the nerf (even if im not an active Nurse player). All other killers are more than fine.
People tries to rework all those killers that thinks are weak, unfair or they don't know how to play with/versus. Not much time ago i posted in a commentary how to play versus much of those killers.
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Imo I'd like to see Clown, Deathslinger, Spirit and Hag reworked. Everyone else is honestly fine. I think almost every 110 killer apart from Huntress have serious extremes on both ends of the spectrum (i.e Extremely good at one thing, then extremely bad at another) and they're really poorly designed. Would rather see them become more balanced killers overall than what they are right now. And Clown is just kind of pathetically simple and could do with getting some interesting mechanics to make him fun.
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Do you mean rework or buff?
Rework: Legion, Ghostface, Freddy
Buff: Clown, Pig, Trapper
Adjustments: Doc, Dudslinger
Maybe Freddy could get away with a few adjustments actually.
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Legion needs changes to un-panic nerf them. (sorry but draining the entire power on a single miss, 4 second stun, and losing a quarter of my power bar on a regular hit is ridiculous when the power has zero down potential unless the Survivors are potatoes and don't know what Deep Wounds are and just continue working on generators)
Demogorgon's sounds need to not be global (Seriously why do you hear a successful shred and portal when you're nowhere near it?)
Pig needs add on changes (mostly buffs)
Nurse needs add ons and not these colorful squares that mostly do nothing useful.
Trapper needs minor changes.
Wraith needs to not be Add on dependent.
Give Spirit some clothes, why is she smurfette showing more skin.
Ghostface needs better knives, they all practically look the same to me.
Also Plague, all her cosmetics look so bland and so similar.
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The Shape is completely fine since the day he dropped, yet they randomly nerfed him anyway in the Stranger Things chapter, all because low ranked survivors were too lazy to use their eyes and ears.
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This is all my own opinion, mind you, but I'd say:
Full Rework (Big power changes/additions and relevant add-on adjustments):
-Clown - His gas bottles should be adjusted to better reward skilled throws while being more fun to play around (think smaller, but more powerful gas cloud and faster aerial bottle movement) and he could stand to gain a secondary ability in addition to them. I think his "Ether Set" of add-ons could be revamped to add unique properties to the gas to mess with intoxicated survivors (and possibly linger for a while after the dizzy/hindered effects wear off), similar to some of the random Madness effects.
-Pig - I really just want her RBTs to get some kind of overhaul. She's okay, but just feels like a generally less enjoyable option than other stealthy characters due to her RNG-based stall potential. Her add-ons could stand some updating as well.
Add-on Revisit:
-Demogorgon - Probably the most underwhelming add-on complement in the game. Far too many minimal bonuses for the portals and little for Shred or Of the Abyss. I know the portals are considered his "primary" power, but really Shred/Abyss is and could have used more support (or more add-ons that change his abilities in interesting ways).
Power Adjustments and/or Balance Changes:
-Freddy - He ought to lose some mobility while in the process of placing traps, just like every other trap-setter in the game. Dream Pallets should have a slightly distorted look to them for keen-eyed survivors to differentiate them from normal ones.
-Spirit - Just make it more apparent when she's gone into phasewalk. I personally think her husk should simply disappear as she charges the ability. Could still turn into a solid guessing game if she hides behind a wall before phasing, but would give observant players a better visual cue that her power is in effect.
-Shape - Should regain his immunity to Spine Chill and Premonition while in EW1 (Spine Chill is great for shutting him down early in a trial). Additional wishful thinking, but I also believe it could be fun if he had the ability to briefly return to EW1 from EW2 (using energy from his meter, but with no initial audio queue). Gives him more options from his "normal" stance.
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Well here is my opinion on reworking or slightly changing some stuffs for all killers:
- The Trapper - I'd say he is fine, nothing to say here.
- The Wraith - Same as Trapper, nothing to change.
- The Hillbilly - He is fine the way he is at the moment(without the stupid changes in the PTB), but his add-ons need to be brought to a level with all other killers(2 iri add-ons, etc. etc.)
- The Nurse - Terrible add-ons, would change like 75% of them, and she desperately needs her bugs to be fixed(unable to teleport through objects etc. etc.)
- The Shape - This is a very hard one, his add-ons are good, but I kinda feel his power is outdated...I'd definitely do a full rework on Michael, especially when we have GF which, me personally, I find much more effective than Myers...
- The Hag - Increase her movement speed to 115%. Out of all the killers who have 110% movement speed, she is by far the weakest one and her power doesn't fully compensate(in my opinion) the lack of 5% to make it a 110% killer...
- The Doctor - Perfectly fine.
- The Huntres - Iri hatchets, that thing should be changed ASAP! There are tons of ways it can be improved than it is at the moment... The rest is fine with her.
- The Cannibal - His power seems good as it is in the current PTB. His add-ons are pretty garbage, though... Could need some love there...
- The Nightmare - He is good the way he is now.
- The Pig - Urgh, tough one, something should be changed about her, but I have no clue why and how...
- The Clown - I'd say he needs a rework. He is terrible...Even with his slight buff that he received(you don't slow down when throwing bottles). His add-ons are pretty good, though...
- The Spirit - She's ok.
- The Legion - I say he's fine the way he is now(although incredibly annoying...)
- The Plague - I'd buff her so that she doesn't slow down when using vile purge(not the corrupt purge), much like Clown when throwing the bottles.
- The GhostFace - Rework!!! His power is severly bugged! I can't count the amount of times I simply stared at him with him fully in my screen and he didn't get revealed or viceversa when I revealed him by accident and gave away my position, although I was hiding behind different stuffs.
- The Demogorgon - He needs a buff related to his lunge power, it's pretty weak and very easily to counter.
- The Oni - He is soo good the way he is now! I really hope DEVS leave this killer alone and don't change him at all.
- The Deathslinger - He is good the way he is now, although he kinda needs something improved, idk what....
- The Executioner - He is good the way he is right now.
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To their base kit:
Need rework: Freddy, Spirit
Don't need: everyone else
To add-ons: very debatable
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Fine: Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, Doctor, Billy, Oni
Weak/Needs a Rework of varying degrees: Everyone else
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Im only with you in the Nurse bugfixing stuff. I got yesterday a match i got bugged underground in the Lab. map. Pretty annoying to play since you can't even play correctly their own powers.
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Wraith - Adjustments - Some addons could be toned down and the difference could be merged with his basekit similar to Pig's ambush addons.
Ghostface - Adjustments - Lower Shroud CD, severely nerf the Shroud Cooldown addons and heavily buff or rework all other addons so it gives more variety to Ghostface. Pretty much the cooldown addons are the ONLY good addons on him. Also make it clear when a survivor is revealing Ghostface by giving them a visual tell so they understand what part of the screen reveals Ghostface. This would make sense on lowering Ghostface's Shroud CD because if a visual tell was given he would be broken out of Shroud more. It's obvious to me but to many for some reason it's not obvious that it's the center of your TV / Monitor and not the survivors FOV based on their head. You don't even need to face Ghostface to reveal him.
Legion - Adjustments to Frenzy - I'm in favor of making the penalties of fatigue scale similar to Nurse's blink. Basically remove the penalty for missing and make it so that each stab in frenzy adds to fatigue. You can still swing like a mad man and it punishes careless stabs but for efficient Legion players it would be a boost. Make the default 2 and each stab adds .5 seconds for example capping out at 4. This is more of a compromise but would be better than literally every time you frenzy you're stunned for 4 seconds.
Freddy - Rework the addons that slow action progress or make those an ultra rare - There's enough perks in game that do that now and Freddy already saves enough time with his power.
Spirit - Delete from game because too much of a guessing game and not fun to play against / boring to play as
The Pig - Rework power so there's less RNG / Remove aura reading of Jigsaw boxes / Overall in need of buffs but would prefer rework because honestly aside from the stealth mechanics of this killer Pig is quite boring.
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Not a single killer needs a "rework"
They should have numbers adjusted, but nothing like we saw with Freddy.
I rather them just make a new killer than rehack and destroy old killers with new ideas.
Freddy was a prime example of what I never want to see again.
You can simply make clown deadly by decreasing his reload bottle time, no need to "rework all his addons and change his power entirely"
Go create a new killer if you want new mechanics, leave old killers as they are and adjust their numbers,
#NOMOREREWORKS
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Freddy and spirit arent balanced. I think clowns fine. Nurse and deathslinger are also fine. And plague and legion need a buff.
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If you want all killers to be buffed to spirit and freddy levels, just know if they do that survivors will be buffed significantly to compensate.
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People ignore survivors real problems because in the past they were actually op now it's alot of killer entitlement not saying survivors arent but alot of it.
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I really think it's just new players being frustrated with the difficult learning curves of killer gameplay and using a killers power effectively. DBD is not a noob friendly game in the slightest.
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Just because they aren't used often doesn't mean they're under powered. I love Demo and went on a 2 week win streak with him. I lost it since I only got 2 kills against a sweat squad. All killers can apply pressure, some are just better at it than others. The only ones that can't are the ones who have very little going for them, like Clown. Clown has an underwhelming anti-loop and nothing else. Clown and pre-rework Bubba are probably the worst 2 in the game because they just don't have anything to use in a substantial way. You see Freddy and Spirit in red ranks all the time because they have so much going for them and they're extremely easy to play. They have mobility, a small amount of stealth, and extremely strong anti-loop while also being some of the easiest to pick up and play. There's just not a reason to play anybody else outside of whether you want to or not.
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Well, we have different opinion and i respect it. Freddy is the most balanced killer. His traps remember that they only activate in the dream world. Spirit is just a matter of luck, you just have to learn to trick her with the marks. It is also easier to escape it if you have an iron will. I wouldn't say extremely strong anti-loop.
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Doc and Freddy need their base kit tuned down, and some effects shifted to add-ons.
Plague, Demo, Wraith, Trapper, and Clown need their base kit tuned up with better speeds or new effects.
Deathslinger's spear mechanic needs a rework.
Pyramid's cage mechanic needs a reworrk.
Pig RBT need a rework, specifically how it works with EGC.
Huntress needs a full add-on passs. HER BASE KIT IS JUST FINE THOUGH. Maybe a pass on her perks too.
Nurse and Billy need their bugs fixed DESPERATELY.
Myers could use a slight rework (update his stalk mechanic, rework a few add-ons).
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Yes killer definitely has a huge learning curve but to completely ignore survivors problems because killer is hard to learn is unacceptable.
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the entirety of her traps needs to be reworked into something a lot more consistent for both sides.
the current version is literally just RNG, which is super bad for a game like DbD, where consistency is the key to victory.
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Rework:
Trapper - should be able to hold a lot more of, if not all of his traps - he already has to place them strategically. Having to walk around and get them is even more damning.
Wraith - doesn't need a complete rework, but I think he should have a purple windstorm built into his base kit. Also get rid of lightburn on him. Why is this even a thing still?
Huntress - Fix her cadillac sized hitboxes and make iri head only one-shot if it's a really long range shot. Her hitboxes are why I really have very little respect for Huntress mains.
Michael Myers - He needs something. Hard to put my finger on what. Even something as simple as being able to stalk out of EW1 faster would do a world of difference.
Hag - Same as Wraith - why do flashlights counter her power completely? Get rid of that. Urban already counters it.
Pig - Make her traps actually useful.
Clown - Literally just shorten his reload time. I also wouldn't mind a direct hit from a bottle work like a Doc's shock, where it can interrupt actions.
Spirit - Just add a tell for when she goes in her power. Like the Huntress wind up, so the survivor can actually know what's going on.
Legion - He needs help. I have no idea personally what could be done with him, but he needs help.
Ghostface - I don't have issues revealing him as survivor. I do it quite literally 100% of the time, so i can't sympathize with the complaints. That being said - on corn maps, he can be revealed through corn....but he can't stalk through corn. That needs fixing. Either he shouldn't be reveal-able through corn or he should be able to stalk through it.
DemoPls - His addons suck. Give him more addon love. Any demo main will tell you this.
Oni - My only grip would be that his hitbox during demon strike is a bit nutty. He'll slam the ground 6 feet to my left and it will hit me, somehow. Can also be observed while actually playing him.
Deathslinger - A lot of people say "slow down his aiming". No. Just add a bloom effect to his aiming. So in order to get an accurate shot, the longer he has to aim. There, still powerful at loops, but actually has counterplay.
Pyramidhead - Why...oh why...on a staircase of literally 2 steps...or any staircase...does his power not work? Come on, dude. Don't do my sexy pphead dirty like that, BHVR.
Fine as is:
Hillbilly (pre-PTB BASE KIT) - Fine as is. Only his addons needed adjustments.
Nurse - Fine as is. It'd even go as far as to say her base kit didn't need to be touched when they nerfed her.
Doctor - Fine as is. Strong, but has counterplay.
BubbaPls (PTB) - Perfect. Minus the forever chainsaw bug.
Freddy - Unpopular opinion - but fine as is. His slowdown addons were already nerfed months ago, and I don't see the issue with there being a killer that is easy to play and do well with. Imagine survivors complaining that something is "too easy to do well with".
Plague - She's actually fine right now.
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Well you heard it here folks because this dude doesn't want reworks we will never change a killer again
What's that? pigs traps are entirely rng and can kill you if you get unlucky. Well we ain't changing them cause this guy doesn't want things to be changed.
Oh uh people are annoyed with spirit being a guessing game and they have to use perks to counter her? Sorry we can't change her because somebody of the forum doesn't want things to be changed.
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You're under the assumption that those killers are too strong then, which isn't the case even remotely.
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They are. They take no skill and are the most powerful killers. That's not fair whatsoever.
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Most of these killers don't need reworks at most the need tweaks to their basekit. Besides Spirit.
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Michael myers needs a change?
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I wouldn't mind a demo rework. Something that allows him to drag survivors into the upside down, where they can't work on gens or even see other survivors, and have to waste time running to a portal back into the real world. I wouldn't say he needs a rework though, he is pretty good as is, his kit just feels a bit disappointing compared to what I would have expected from him based on the show.
The ones who actually need reworks now. Hmmm, maybe deathslinger, as is he just feels like a less good version of huntress currently. Clown is also quite weak, but I like his concept, he just needs buffs, not a full rework. Trapper definitely needs something, I hate playing as him.
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None of those statements are accurate at all. Do you play both sides at rank 1?
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I dont really play killer anymore bc it's too easy so no. Survivor I do, and killer I'm purple going against reds. How does spamming snares or doing a "mindgame" by standing still take skill? I was a killer main for a very long time and avoided them bc I like to play fair. Those two dont need buffs.
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Michael Myers should be buffed. Increase his walking speed at tier 1 and make him impervious to spine chill/premonition, and increase his ability to gain stalk. He's the only killer I can think of whose best add-ons are really a disadvantage against good players, mind you I don't play all the killers. Have you ever tried to get infinite tier 3 against a red rank SWF? Almost impossible. If you do, it's as they're going out the exit gate. Also, scratched mirror should be amazing, but he walks so slow it is completely useless on most maps because there is too much open space. He can be looped infinitely in too many places. Not that you should be getting into loop chases with scratched mirror, but on an open map it's hard not to. He certainly doesn't have to be reworked, but he does need some minor adjustments to make him playable against top players.
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I added it to the list for exactly this reason. They have to change the addons and improve the killer without accessories.
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If you played both sides at rank 1 with a good amount of hours you wouldn't have the opinions you do.
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