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Camping or "genrushing" = Chicken or the egg
So I know everyone has their own bias on this argument, but I honestly think the whole "camping vs genrushing" argument is just a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg" question.
Survivors "genrush" because of camping killers (I put "genrush" in quotation marks because I think it's a dumb term but that's for a different discussion)
Killers camp because they feel like they're being "genrushed" and feel like it's their only way to win
So essentially, you either have to fix both simultaneously or not fix either. I don't know what the solution is that would make both sides happy (if that's even possible) but a change to one without changing the other will destroy one side of the community.
If anyone has solutions or a different point of view, I would love to hear it
Comments
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Nothing of this should be changed. People just should accept the fact that killers aren't going to leave hook if they feel like it's better to stay and survivors aren't going to ignore the gens if there is no pressure applied on them.
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I have to disagree for the main reason of it still remains that on most maps, if survivors split up and focus strictly on gens the game is almost over before the first hook can even take place. This is why people saying "just pressure gens" is silly and why I do think gen rushing is a thing and honestly I hate noed but i'm glad it exists because the threat of it is the only thing that makes some survs do anything other than gens.
As killer you can see the difference in the match and it's staggering. A game that goes super quickly with barely any hooks, the exit gates are powered and as i'm walking around there are multiple totems left, chests left unsearched, the survs came in, banged on gens and left. If that is their main goal "most" killers can't do much about it.
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Golden words here.
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I've been camped with no gens done. Trust me, it happens. XD
But also the threat of camping is enough on its own. If you don't have any gens done by the time the killer gets their first hook, why wouldn't they camp? The person on the hook will die before 5 gens can be completed by the 3 remaining people, even if they stay on gens the whole time and don't attempt saves.
Camping is strongest at the beginning of a match, compared to the end. The game is 4 v 1 because if even 1 survivor is taken out the equation, the match is pretty much over if you have nothing done. So while I understand the point you are trying to make, the threat of camping is always there and survivors have to get gens done quickly in order to not be stuck in an unwinnable game
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Also, I'm still of the opinion that if 3 gens pop before you get a single hook, you just aren't very good at the game. I've played both sides in red ranks (although my killer isn't there any more because I prefer survivor) and I have never had that happen. If you're in a chase that long, you're doing something wrong. I'm sorry XD
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Neither. Gen rush happens without camping and camping is a strategy done to counter hyper-altruism, not gen rush.
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That last sentence in your first paragraph is kinda the point I'm getting at here. "The threat of it"
I can't speak for everyone and I personally don't seek out totems but I always break the ones I come across (Mostly for Inner Strength) but for the most part, I focus gens early game because the threat of the killer being a camper. If a killer turns out to be a camper and we have nothing done on their first hook, that match is already pretty much over. Once two or three gens are done, I'll start looting chest and totem searching to prevent NOED, but doing that stuff in the early game grants more power to the killer and gives them more time to snowball. Once a killer starts rolling, if you're not at least halfway through the objective, there's almost no recovering from it.
So yeah, just like you said the threat of NOED can cause survivors to do things other then gens is why I say the threat of camping is what causes survivors to focus gens in the first place.
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Well, camping hooks has been around for way longer than gen-rushing.
Both of these, especially camping, are also not linked as perfectly as people make out. SOME killers will camp regardless. Occasionally team will be very quick with generators. Especially SWF who can tell everyone when one of them is going for a save, rather than two wasting lots of time.
You can't fix both, and certainly not at the same time. But you can definitely help lessen them.
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I feel like camping is stronger in the endgame, as you said if you camp the first hook you'll lose all 5 gens.
But in any situation, borrowed time is used on every match so camping is not really an issue.
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Unless you get a map with very weak pallets (like Hawkins) or low number of pallet spawns (like Shelter Woods) or you are playing a killer that can effectively ignore pallets, all a survivor has to do is throw the pallet and run to the next one. Plus you still have to hit them twice unless you are running an instant down killer. That can easily take up enough time for a single gen to be done and if the survivors are split up that's 3 gens.
If you drop chase to chase someone else, two other survivors are still working on gens and now the 3rd guy is just going to hop on a gen himself and the cycle repeats again.
It's really not about being bad in the situation where survivors are fully committed to doing gens above everything else. Most games aren't like that, but they do happen.
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Yeah I gotta admit I only camp when its egc or near enough (1 gen left) and I've yet to get one sacc or only a couple of hooks. Basically I've been outplayed in the chase game so now I need to switch up to a camp game. You may still get outplayed in a camp game but you may also get lucky and get that sweet over altruistic seriously flawed coordination 4k in the egc.
Bit of late game basement play is just a bit of fun but people get really pissy about it.
"Genrushing" I think is more of a feeling that what it took to get that down seemed disproportionate to the ease with which several gens popped.
Maybe survivors need more incentive to do other things etc, Thana helps with this but even then. Maybe being injured should make it slower to repair and cleanse as a base, but sloppy would become a god tier perk when paired with thana, add to that killers like legion and you have some serious game slowdown and chase potential.
They aren't the most common but there are definitely games where I think I'm not sure what more I could have done to stop those 2 to 3 gens popping that early the way they did.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone associate a cause/effect relationship to doing gens and camping. One of those things is literally the objective of the game for survivors. The other is a side effect of too much altruism, or something you do when you really want a particular survivor to die.
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