Buffing Cheryl & Ash Perks
All suggestions below are in ADDITION to the existing effects, unless its obviously intended to replace existing ones.
Soul Guard
- If a hex is up, any hit that would bring you directly from Healthy to Dying state inflicts Broken and Deep Wound instead.
- Enduring from recovering from dying lasts 6/9/12 seconds.
Blood Pact
- Both you and the obsession can see the aura of the killer if the killer is within 8/12/16 meters of the other person. (You do not see the killer's aura near you, only when he's near the other person)
- You can see each other even when the other person is picked up by the killer. (You see the killer's aura per the above feature)
- Overrides Knock Out.
Repressed Alliance
- Any survivor can prematurely cancel this block by holding Space over it for 2 seconds.
Mettle of Man
- When taking a Protection Hit while facing the killer (in a 180 degree frontal cone to support side blocks. Excluding the back 180 degrees prevents triggering on accidental protection hits while failing at running), if a hit would bring you directly from Healthy to Dying state, it leaves you Broken and Deep Wounded instead.
- Instead of taking a free hit (Dead Hard will always be better here), after activating Mettle of Man the next time the killer hits you, the killer is stunned for 5 seconds. You still take the damage from the hit, just do so manlier.
I've never watched the film, but from the "Mettle of Man" preview trailer and the name of the perk standing up against the killer like this seems much more thematically fitting.
Buckle Up
- When you restore someone from dying to injured state, they receive Enduring for 10/15/20 seconds (scales with Borrowed Time)
Flip-Flop
- Your wiggles cause the killer's movement to sway twice as much as normal in the direction your camera is facing.
Comments
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Survivor main?
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I agree that ash perks need to be looked into because he is not worth buying. People bought him when MoM was at its prime but not anymore.
Cheryl's perks however are really good. People just don't want to replace their BT and DS with any other perk and give them a try.
Repressed alliance is one of my favourite perks and soul guard is really good and can be meta. Blood pact is a niche perk though. Speed boost is only good when the killer is coming towards you and you finish healing.
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- Would definitely be too strong and ruin the game as it currently is it can be an annoying perk
- I don’t see too much reason in it you can already assume by movement and the fact they got injured if they have the killer over there and if that worked on hook what would be the point of kindred?
- That would also have to let corrupt thrilling dead mans switch etc get a change of that but the whole point of the entity block is so no one can touch the gen for awhile
- I don’t think we need another 5 second stun that can be stacked together with others
- I don’t see too much of an issue besides no one would run soul guard as much as someone can do this and always have enduring effect add in for the people and it’s slightly oppressive
- This is just boil over’s effect
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1) Wait, soulguard? The super situational thing that never comes up in hundreds of matches because you have to
a) Be dying b) Killer leaves you alone, slugged, c) Killer comes back within the ridiculously short time frame? The only situation where all 3 requirements will pick up is when the entire team bum rushes the basement in a suicide rescue run and I just can't see that happening beyond green ranks. In it's current state it may seem good on paper but it's practically useless.
The suggested buff wouldn't really negate the fact you'd still rather remove the hex instead of keeping it on. You're just not going to have a full team of Soul Guard in a public match.
2) Re: Blood Pact
- Kindred works on everyone. Blood Pact only works with obsession. It's a minor enhancement suggestion just to make it more appealing.
3) Re: Repressed Alliance
- I admit I haven't gotten enough use out of this to know how this could possibly interact with those perks, but the intention here is strictly to prevent survivor trolling survivors. There is zero intention of any effect against killers. Can you elaborate why the suggestion changes the Survivor-Killer dynamic?
4) Re: MoM
Change the duration then. MoM is not only situational it rarely proc even when you specifically try to earn those 3 protection hits. The only time I successfully got it off was when the killer was very clearly just goofing around and both sides picked up to farm points. I have NEVER scored 3 protection hits in a normal match.
5) It's meant to be taken in conjunction with the soul guard suggestion.
6) Re: Flip-Flop
Huh? Boil Over gives you additional wiggle PROGRESS. The suggestion makes you physically sway the killer's movement with limited steering. I will say its intended if you combine it with Boil Over to blind the killer from nearby hook auras to try to steer him away from looking at a nearby hook. It may be futile but that sense of control and ability to influence the outcome of a bad situation is a great feeling in a survival genre.
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MoM needs a buff, make it a (one time) extra hit that only procs on a protection hit.
90% of the time, I never get MoM to activate or, it's too late to do any good.
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The only one that needs a buff is Buckle Up which is literally useless.
Everything else can be worked into a build.
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I agree Buckle up is worthless. A lot of Perks are worthless... it would seem easy to make Buckle Up even a little better.
How about Every time you heal another survivor health state, dying to injured, injured to healthy, the killer is revealed?
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The issue with it is it shows you if someone is ready to be picked up. It doesn't speed up recovery or prevent getting slugged or whatever. And if the killer is still around it doesn't matter anyway if you can see their aura.
In the name of contributing to gimmicky perks, it could be a fake slug perk. You lie down and pretend to be dying. Maybe it gives you a protection hit for being picked up first and gives you a bonus heal speed for breaking the killers grasp.
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Cheryl’s perks are good I have no clue what you are on about
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Cheryl's perks are fine. Ash's perks are whatever, I don't think these changes are good though. I don't think MoM or any perk for survivors should be aggressive towards the killer they should be defensive imo, Flip-flop would be more useless than it is and Buckle up working like BT in the same way is not healthy for the game BT is for camping and stopping the survivor from going to the next stage. It takes like 3 minutes or something for someone to die on the ground and they can fill there bar up to 95% for someone to pick them up easily, I don't have answers for how Ash's perks can change but these ain't it.
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I don't know what makes you think Cheryl's perks need a buff, but they don't.
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Boil Over does NOT give you additional progress, it increases the wiggling effect, so the killer sways more.The only thing that can speed up the wiggle progress is breakout.
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No, Boil Over does exactly what OP described. You "harden" the killer's movement more than normal, but the perk doesn't affect wiggle progress.
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Yeah, some of these suggestions are pretty bonkers, here's my take on those perks:
Soul Guard
- The enduring effect also applies to any teammates that you pick up yourself for 6/8/10 seconds.
- Enduring from recovering from dying lasts 6/8/10 seconds.
Blood Pact
- Both you and the obsession can see the aura of the killer if the killer is within 8/10/12 meters of the other person. (You do not see the killer's aura near you, only when he's near the other person)
- You don't have to fully heal each other up to get the haste speed buff for 8/9/10 seconds
- You can see each other even when the other person is picked up by the killer. (You see the killer's aura per the above feature)
- Overrides Knock Out.
Mettle of Man
- Amount of protection hits required to activate this perk are reduced to 2
Buckle Up
- Picking up a survivor grants him a 3 second sprint burst
- Killer's aura is revealed to both the saviour and the saved person for 8 seconds
- Your aura is revealed to the killer for 8 seconds
- Survivors recovery progress will be highlighted in white aura within 32/64/128 meters of the downed survivor
Flip-Flop
- Flip flop has an aura effect
- Any downed survivor within 8/10/12 meters at the moment of being picked up will have the Flip Flop effect applied
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Soul Guard doesn't need any buffs.
Repressed Alliance is in good spot. I can only agree on having a less time consuming requirment, but that's it.
Blood pact, yeah it kinda needs a buff. It's not that superior as it sounds on paper.
Mettle of Man, yes it needs a buff or completely rework.
Flip Flop is good as it is.
Buckle up needs a buff or completely rework.
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That's not at all a realistic game though. Not just the way they played they outright admitted in their voice chat they were deliberately trolling the killer wanting specific perks to take off.
You're just not going to get use out of Soul Guard in a normal game in its current state. Don't evaluate a perk based on how it sounds on paper or based on troll gameplay footage designed to generate views and ad revenue?
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Okay, I re-read the wiki carefully and I'll concede to that. I could swear Boil Over actually makes it easier for and more frequent for me to escape and I've never had survivors escape from Iron Gasp though. Must be some placebo effect or confirmation bias.
I strongly disagree with those who think SG and MoM are fine as is because you'll at best get use out of them maybe once in 50 games without so deliberately forcing it that you throw the game.
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You're not going to get use out of Borrowed time upon pickup? Are we playing the same game?
Even without a hex in play, soul guard is a good perk. With a hex, it becomes a powerhouse. You're not supposed to get full use out of it every game or it would be busted OP
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>You're not going to get use out of Borrowed time upon pickup? Are we playing the same game?
Who's talking about Borrowed Time? Why are you bringing that into the conversation? SG and MoM do not get any uses.
>Even without a hex in play, soul guard is a good perk. With a hex, it becomes a powerhouse. You're not supposed to get full use out of it every game or it would be busted OP
The best I can give you is agree to disagree. This is completely against my experience. Maybe 1 in 10 games (if even that, I'm being generous here) I'm left in dying state long enough where full restore is relevant. Not once in hundreds of games have I ever been picked up from dying state and the killer shows up within 10 seconds. Soul Guard without Hex is literally useless/unusable. With Hex you're better off with Unbreakable. I would not call it 'powered up' at all. Something that comes to play 0.2% of all games is for all intents and purposes, useless. Troll games dont count, since you farm points from those regardless.
You'd have to be playing against a killer who's just doing dailies/trolling around or one who's completley not paying attention for him to slug you repeatedly to get a second use out of it, so the second use is irrelvant.
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Soul Guard is just BT for being picked up, it's obvious what i was saying
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Soul Guard is an SWF perk mainly. You tell your friends not to cleanse the totem so you can get infinite unbreakable. The killer isn't gonna know you had it unless he sees you do it in his face. The video I posted was against killers that were actually trying for the 4k but couldn't get past the perk abuse. Oni is one such killer that is neutered by the Soul Guard/Unbreakable combo. Not every perk needs max usefulness every game. Small Game is amazing against trapper/hag, but sucks if the killer brought no hexes/isn't a trap killer. Premonition is a good counter to stealth killers, but won't see much use against 32m terror radius killers.
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- No. There does NOT need to be a perk which is just "ignore NOED." If there would be something to defend against exposed it should have significant requirements to charge up.
- Mettle of Man doesn't need 6 different effects, including stupidly strong stuns for no reason.
- Flip Flop's suggestion is already Boil Over.
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I've conceded on Flip Flop. MoM still needs a buff because as it is it's not going to proc and not worth the risk of running in front of your ally so many times just to not activate it.
While I understand your viewpoint on my proposed SG changes, I disagree it would be as bad as it seems.
1) It's only going to apply to the survivors who equipped it. You're not going to have a full team equipping SG to counter NOED; if you were that coordinated, you'd just cleanse the totems instead and have a more useful perk.
You'll still be Broken and Deep Wounded; go after other survivors or just hit that same survivor again in the ample time they can't heal. Unless you're using NOED as a low rank clutch (and there's already tons of other things you can do at low ranks) I don't see the problem.
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>Not every perk needs max usefulness every game.
We aren't going to get anywhere with hyperboles. My contention and my suggestion aren't intended to get use out of it "every game", but it needs to be more applicable than its current state.
For example, I think adrenaline, unbreakable, borrowed time, etc. are all perfectly fine where they are at. They aren't useful every game; they probably only come to play 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 games depending on the player, but offers great use nonetheless without becoming a Must-Have perk. SG is nowhere near that, IMO.
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1) Soul Guard lasts 4/6/8 seconds while BT lasts 10/15/20 seconds. The difference is dramatic.
2) Soul Guard comes in dying state while BT in hooked state. The Killer can see auras of all hooks and hooked survivors, but not dying (without a perk). Killers can regularly patrol and keep watch of a hooked survivor shortening the time it takes for him to rush back to respond to an unhook. Killers cannot do the same against dying unless they were face camping them. The difference in gameplay mechanics and interplay between survivor and killer is huge.
The two points render the two perks nothing alike in practice. Just because you can get use out of BT does not mean you can get use out of SG. If you really want to bring BT into discussion then the more reasonable comparison/suggestion would be swapping their duration, but I don't think anyone's pushing for a shortened BT.
We aren't going to have a productive discussion if you're only speaking on paper rather than bringing practical experience to the table.
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Cheryl's perks don't need buffs. Ash & Quentin for sure though.
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[Deleted. The forum was acting weird to me earilier and now some delayed reposts are showing.]
Post edited by BeyondDisbelief on0 -
2 of Cheryl's perks are great, but situational.
The only change I would like to see is either the aura bit OP mentioned OR make the speed boost literally a sprint. 7% haste for 10 seconds is laughable at best.
Edit: Obviously I was talking about Blood Pact.
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[Deleted. The forum was acting weird to me earilier and now some delayed reposts are showing.]
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I didn't purchased Ash just for Mettle Of Man. I'm a big fan of Ash williams so I bought him 😂.Some idiots did bought him just for mettle of man.
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