DS needs to be anti tunnel. Not anti momentum
For starters, yes, I am aware that in some games, Decisive Strike is totally necessary. Tunnelling is rampant, both because of DS, and because of the gen rush meta, and there needs to be a counter. Sure, Spine Chill really grinds my gears as Ghostface, but every killer/survivor needs a counter.
I for one, believe that DS would be perfectly fine if there wasnt any exploits with its design.
Not to mention that its mere existance encourages tunnelling. Most killers eat the DS early on, and then proceed to tunnel that player anyways. So in that scenario, DS was nothing but a minor inconvience.
My suggestion? Truly make this a 100% anti tunnel perk.
1. Decisive Strike has two tokens. You lose a token after being rescued from a hook within 32 meters of the killers location, otherwise no tokens are consumed. If a token is consumed, you have 30 seconds of DS being active
2. This timer will pause when you are in a chase and while you are down. This timer will immediately deactivate if you start repairing a gen, cleanse a totem, are fully healed, enter a locker or unhook another survivor.
And now, my reasons for the changes.
1. You can be tunnelled more than once, hence the two tokens. My original thoughts were to make the perk terror radius dependant like Borrowed Time, but stealth killers could easily get around it, and stealth killers can still tunnel. Shortened timer to compensate for the two tokens.
2. Obviously, slugging is not going to cut it. A tunneller is forced to ignore the unhooked survivor unless they want to eat the stun. And the deactivation prompts is simply the unhooked survivor saying, "Im not being tunnelled, Im putting myself back in the game by completing objectives"
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2. This timer will pause when you are in a chase and while you are down. This timer will immediately deactivate if you start repairing a gen, cleanse a totem, are fully healed, enter a locker or unhook another survivor.
Unfair. This negates insta-heals during a chase. Negates Second Wind. Negates Inner Strength when even looping the killer who's tunneling you by entering a locker. It punishes survivors for not fully healing, even with We'll Make It which is a 5 second heal, the killer could already be on his way looking for you.
1. Decisive Strike has two tokens. You lose a token after being rescued from a hook within 32 meters of the killers location, otherwise no tokens are consumed. If a token is consumed, you have 30 seconds of DS being active
Does this mean I lose a token if I'm farmed off the hook and I have to wait for the killer to leave the radius in order to go for the unhook?
Please explain this.
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So if the killer moonwalks for 30s DS is basically usseles (remember old legion moonwalk tech?)
Yeah, no. And I think @BigBrainMegMain already debunked your idea
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You lose a token when farmed yes. Thats on your teammates. Theres no perk or anything added to compensate for ######### teammates. I wish there was.
Might I add that this new version of DS takes priority over hooks? If you hit the skill check, the killer cannot hook you and is forced to eat the stun.
Honestly I totally forgot Second Wind and Inner Strength even existed but most of the time, it wont be a perk that heals you mid chase except Adrenaline. Also, Inner Strength mid chase? I have genuinely never seen that.
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I thought about making the timer based on killer proximity, but thats totally OP. You can have infinite DS even when the killer isnt tunnelling.
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So? are you going to fix that or what..
And DS doesn't need any changes, why can't you slug?
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There's no point in even suggesting changes tied to chase mechanics. The Devs have said they have no interest in reworking them and that they want killers rewarded for being in a chase, not being rewarded for not being in a chase. Yes, it's dumb, and it genuinely comes across as either lazy or poorly thought-out. (Their main reason is Bloodlust, and yet chases are designed to be easily broken for a microsecond so that bloodlust gets reset. Go figure.)
However, other than that, the only two criticisms I have are the fact that it's radius-linked (Demogorgon, Hag, Huntress, Billy, Oni, Spirit and Nurse all want to say hello) and that it's still 30 seconds, which is a huge amount of time. Someone could come off a hook and just sit under it and heal, or their teammate could farm them and get away with it. Sure, 2 uses is great, but the deactivation conditions should be super strict. Maybe if it deactivates after 5 seconds of doing an action with a progress bar?
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Yes I can slug. But thats boring, and I dont run slug perks. All my builds focus on gen slowdown. Id rather eat the stun, and proceed with the kill anyways. In that very common scenario, DS does nothing anyways.
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Just out of curiosity, what do you think tunelling is and why do you think it's unfair that DS deactivates after you use an instaheal?
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So why you're complaining.
And you dont need slug perks in order to slug.
And freddy is boring for me, does that mean it needs a nerf?
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Your last point makes sense to me. I just wanted to punish survivors who put themselves back into the game early.
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Freddy doesnt need a nerf. Freddy needs another rework. Thats what this DS change was. A rework.
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If I dont run slug perks, and I leave a person on the ground. I can lose track of them easily. Especially when I leave them to go pressure gens. With Unbreakable, and teammates being right around the corner to heal, Im not really accomplishing much by choosing not to eat a 5 second stun.
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Yeah, I've had teammates and opponents that heal under the hook and then blame the killer for even daring to consider looking at the survivor. It's not fair to expect your opponent to go out of their way to be nice, and it's not fair to punish them for it. It's like if there was a perk that reset a generator if two of them pop too closely together.
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You literally contradicted yourself.
Tunneling, as soon as being unhooked, the killer tunnel visions YOU and only YOU.
Using an Insta-Heal during a chase while the killer is following you, after being unhooked is still considered tunneling.
Is it not? Haven't you healed for 2 or 3 seconds after being unhooked and then you hear his terror radius making his way to you?
I'm sure we've all been in that situation, and killers like the OP want to take that away? What, you heal for 1 second and DS is deactivated?
What a laugh.
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Anti tunnel perk if the killer is outside of 32 meters going after someone else its kinda hard to get tunneled
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No. No no thats ridiculous. You have to be completely healed for it to deactivate. Healing just for a second should not deactivate the perk at all
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So you want like 18 second chances on top of the 2 that the game already gives you, talk about entitled survivors
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So a Hag, waiting for her traps to be set off.
A Spirit reading to phase back.
A Nurse holding her blink to port back.
A Demo waiting to port back.
Have you seen these players with MYC? They immediately race back to the hook to down the unhooker. Yes, it promotes anti-tunneling, but imagine when these are into effect, that DS does not activate when you're within 32 meters.
I can't even imagine.
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Any progress to the state of the match is too much for an anti tunnel perk, healing, cleansing, being fully healed, or starting to repair all shouldnt be part of the anti tunnel package
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lol 18?
I can name off 10 perks that halt a survivor's objective and only name 2 that halt a killer's objective.
It's not my first time defending DS, want me to prove you wrong?
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so just hook bomb the exact same strategy that makes bt work and all those strats with make your choice not
So you want to make this a pissing contest ey lets see if I can name 18
Sprint burst, lithe, deadhard, balanced landing all extend chase halting killer objective, 4
Unbreakable, Soul Guard, No mither all halt slugging which halts killer objective, 7
Decisive Strike Prevents gaining killer objective from recently hooked survivors, 8
Resilience, Dance with me, Quick and quiet, Iron will, calm spirit help make chases last longer preventing killer objective, 13
Premonition, Object of obsession, Spine chill let you run away early which wastes more of the killers time halting killer objectives, 16
Finally Red herring and Diversion divert the killers attention usually when he is looking for someone else to keep at his objective of killing people. 18
Not all arbitrary numbers are just hyperbole, think a little more before posting next time.
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lol None of those are second chance perks. Sorry, NONE of those halt the ability for a killer to proceed with his objective.
Unbreakable alone, hook the survivor.
Soul Guard Alone, hook the survivor.
DS is the only one along with maybe BT.
Premonition? WHAT!?
You...you're funny.
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DS, BT, and debatably Dead Hard are the only second chance perks
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and only name 2 that halt a killer's objective. your words not mine, you made fun of 18 and gave me I criteria and I destroyed you with your own poor grasp on most likely your first language, Check mate
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Soul guard is mental, definitely a second chance, along with deliverance.
Sprint burst saves you if you are out of position, other exhaustion perks do the same but to a lesser extent.
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I know people want to guarantee anti tunnel, but all I see with suggestions like this is "if you're unhooked in the end game, you're guaranteed a free escape no matter what the killer does."
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OMG, this place is a ######### post hu? A dude gives a pretty good idea, people come to DESTROY HIM, for even trying to help, makes me remember how they treath the devs, now I know why this is one of the worst communities ever.
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So by that logic, DS should deactivate if the killer downs you, then the person that unhooked you. After all, if you get slugged, you aren't getting tunelled, because the killer isn't only going after you. And I in no way contradicted myself, I sincerely doubt anyone has ever brought and instaheal into a trial with the intention of only using whilst being tunelled. That's like saying you mori'd everyone because of DS/UB.
And yes, I have certainly had killers come after me after I get unhooked. Except a lot of the time it's not exactly tunelling - if you're the injured one, it only makes sense to slug you, and if you were healing in an unsafe location, that's on you. I have watched many of my teammates die because they think that under the hook or around a wall are good locations, and that the killer should ignore the injured person tip they are healthy.
I wholeheartedly agree with your definition of tunelling, though not with your justification for using extremely strong items or your assumption that I in any way have been contradictory. Just because both sides can be arseholes doesn't mean you should pre-emptively take the low road.
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Why not? If I sit down at a gen or totem, I'm clearly not getting tunelled and don't deserve the free objective time that having DS currently brings. And if you're healing near the hook, that's genuinely your mistake. You could have run away and let a teammate take the heat, which is the correct play to avoid being an easy slug.
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Yes thats exactly what I mean when you aren't getting tunneled actively you shouldn't have the protection of an anti tunnel perk
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You know what's annoying about DS? After you hook a survivor, even if you hook 2 more before he gets saved he gets a 60 second immunity.
Killers are punished for survivors getting an unhook late.
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They just need DS to deactivate after healing up to 20% of your health, touching a gen, totem, chest or healing another person because it's clear at that point that the killer is not chasing you.
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i can see these changes but for one caveat, if a killer comes within you while ds protected all other survivors auras are shown for 3-12 seconds. the worst part of DS is when you are not tunneling and then the DS survivor is right there for the taking. this way the killer has a reason to not tunnel
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Sorry, then. Your previous post confused me. I thought you meant that there should be some exceptions.
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The only people who think DS is fine as is are the ones who do not play Killer at a high level. The perk is beyond broken, there does need to be a variation of DS existing to discourage tunneling to be sure but the current version is far to easy to abuse.
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DS already gives players another health state (essentially). Why should they synergize with instaheals? If one has the time to heal, they either:
- Aren't being tunneled (most forms of healing)
- Are good enough at looping that you don't need DS in the first place (second wind + Instaheals)
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The only exception that I feel is ok for an anti tunnel perk is not being disabled when you start being healed but instead when you finish being healed
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Of course ... and how do you deal with how the survivor wants to abuse the perk ?, there you have the example of BT.
In fact, I propose something else to you.
- Protection with BT disables DS instantly.
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You know slugging can slow down gens just as well as a hook right? Slugging is super important as a tool for slowing down the game
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