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Is Survivor Action Guage Coming?
Real talk, no b8. So in an unbalanced game heavily favoring survivors, our only option is to re-work killers?? How to re-work? What’s the flavor of the week? Power Guages!
Nurse didn’t need this, just some add-on changes. LF didn’t need this, just a small charge base decrease. Billy didn’t need this, just some add-on tweaks.
While I personally am against the idea, I’m sure Survivor Action Power Guages is next(APG). If we’re nerfing the weaker side, eventually their must be a plan down the road to nerf the other side (certainly a few Devs are smart enough to know this).
So what’s it to be? An APG? Now you have to have enough power in your guage to repair/sabo/heal/cleanse/vault/unhook? For the sake of balance, don’t let a power guage effect pallet drops or flashlight uses. So after unhooking/healing a teammate, now you can’t touch a gen until your meter has refilled. Just did a whole gen solo? Now you can do nothing else but get chased until your meter is refilled.
Do you all think this idea sounds stupid? I sure do. How much you ask? About as much as putting the guages on killers that don’t need them.
Not being sarcastic (entirely anyway), I truly am curious on what the next step is to work towards game balance since we’re currently making it worse, legit question. Please, for the love of ever reaching a 5th year anniversary, DON’T let it be something like APG for survivors.
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It's heavily favouring well coordinated survivors that don't care about pipping and just want to escape.
Which are RARE.
Billy needed the Gauge.
New LF needs a gauge.
Spirit needs a gauge.
Killers who don't need a gauge don't have one so what's your point?
This is nothing but a disguised "omagah they nerfed Billy, the most balanced who at the same time is better than the whole roster in 90% of situations, killer"
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Survivors already have a gauge in their power, which is their item.
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"omg they added a guage to my perfectly balanced killer with infinite cross-map mobility and one-hit downs ######### ######### #########"
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wow dude, you’re literally all over the place. Firstly, I didn’t even so much as mention Spirit, because she has ALWAYS had the power guage, and it works fine.
Billy is (was) a well-balanced fairplay killer. What makes you think he NEEDS a guage?
Leatherface’s only big weakness was too often he was forced to me an M1 killer due to chainsaw charge time and bugs. So why do you think he needs a guage?
Nurse just needed less blinks, we got it (even without the guage). So why do you think she needs a guage?
Little tip for you, if you’re claiming to have a different opinion than someone else...how about you give specifics instead of vaguely saying “They need it!” to help justify why and how you concluded the different belief. Debate 101 dude.
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Perhaps your English needs work. While indeed I mentioned I wasn’t fond of the power guages added to killers, that’s NOT the debate topic.
The question is, what are we doing to work closer to game balance AFTER these changes. If you want to troll my threads, at least have the decency to give input on actual topic instead if derailing and going somewhere else.
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You're biased beyond belief if you think that billy didn't need a gauge. He would've NEVER been released in this state in current DBD. or as Snowbawlzz put it:
""omg they added a guage to my perfectly balanced killer with infinite cross-map mobility and one-hit downs ######### ######### #########""
Your whole thread is ridiculous and pointless and you wouldn't have made this thread if it wasn't for the billy changes.
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Again...
you think he needs it. Again, you don’t mention WHY you think he needs it. Want me to change my opinion, no problem. I’m an open and reasonable man, I’ll hear you out. Why do you think he needs it? Your lack of info can only lead me to believe one thing, you don’t know how to counterplay it. Maybe I’m wrong, but you’ve literally told me nothing so far, and this topic isn’t about guages for killers. The topic is about what the next step is for game balance, what’s already done is done, no need to keep talking about it.
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I won't tell you why he needs it, there's no point, the changes have been made and they will not be reverted, I've been saying that hillbilly is holding back general killer balance with no other killers being able to close the gap to him for years and it's finally been done. He's a relict of different times where survivors were able to loop people for 2 minutes straight even if the killer was way better.
Now that Hillbilly's been nerfed further gamebalance changes CAN be done FINALLY like making maps smaller etc.
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So you wanted to pop-in, make a biased unsupported claim with no facts that’s off-topic for no reason?? lol
There’s an old saying that definitely applies here:
“It’s better to be silent and have people think you’re stupid rather than opening your mouth and proving them right”.
If you had nothing to add to the issue at hand, why even bother posting anything at all?
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He has the best early game AND late game out of the entire killer roster
Early game he charges across the map to where the survivors spawn. Late game he charges between the gates faster than they could possibly open them. He charges back to every unhook to smack his unfortunate victim back down in 2 seconds. He has a one-tap power on top of this massive mobility. He gets a deadzone map like Swamp and it's a guaranteed win because the survivors have nothing to work with.
Billy came out when the game had an assload of pallets with vacuum. New maps are small with unsafe pallets and it makes Billy a monster.
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Survivors are literally the reason legion got nerfed even when they were almost picked as much as clown. "Oh legions the second worst character in the game and he can put sloppy butcher on me while in ff because its a basic attack wahhhh fix it bhvr". And im rank 1 survivor and rank 8 killer and i never had any problems with legion. And nurse has turned into a bugged sucky mess when her addons just needed reworked. The devs even admitted when people suggested for just making nurse fatigue like legion and thats it (when they were discussing her) this is a quote.
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"Real talk, no b8. So in an unbalanced game heavily favoring survivors, our only option is to re-work killers??"
When you start your thread like this, how you can expect a reasonable discussion? Your bias is on display clear as day.
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Your ad homines are petty mate, especially while you're making such a dumb thread, maybe you should learn to reflect.
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Respect brutha. Finally some intellect to work with. All of your points are valid and I agree with them all. Strong, very much. Let me ask you this. Did your team lose (4k or 3k and a hatchout) almost every Billy you faced?
If the answer is no, he didn’t need the guage.
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"heavily favoring survivors", dont make us laugh too hard.
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The only remotely biased thing I said was the game is survivor sided. This is a universal fact, not an opinion of mine.
If you don’t think it is, feel free to explain why and I’ll happily debunk all of your examples.
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The incredibly dumb things that you say while dismissing people as "dumb" is astounding.
"Durr, if you don't lose all the time then the char is balanced".
Scottjund got a 50 killstreak on Oni and would probably be able to do the same with Billy, by that logic Oni is OP and needs nerfing since he'd be able to pull a 90%+ winrate. Heck he pulls 32 4ks in a row with speedlimiter bubba, nerf all killers now I guess.
And here I was thinking that tru3 is a slow thinker.
This is why gamedevs should almost never listen to their audience when it comes to balancing their game.
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I mean lets take a stroll down memory lane pal. Nurse survivors got nerfed into the ground. Legion survivors got nerfed even when they had second lowest pickrate so combine that with all his nerfs when he first came out. Billy is obviously right now. Ruin got nerfed because survivors couldn't hit a skillcheck. Survivors get a basically ds buff lose pallet vacuums some infinites and instaheals (which people now use for the people for mixed with the cheryl perk). So i mean. Im sure i could go back and look at the past patches and ill see a lot more killer nerfs than survivors and a lot more survivor buffs than killer buffs. Although i already know how biased you are its a forum meme at this point but i hope your not oblivious.
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I've been smoked by a Clown and I've smoked NOED Freddy. The competency of the players and the map layout play a huge role. Billy, however, had the biggest potential to be a douche just by waiting for unhooks and smacking me back down and soon as my feet touched the dirt. Then he'd zoom back to the other side of the map, check around, zoom back to me and put me back on the hook.
You can't have a killer with THIS kind of mobility plus one-taps when the new maps are so small and unsafe (ex:Dead Dawg Saloon. The devs have talked about how they're focusing on smaller maps like this to ease gen-rushing).
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So because barely anyone could play nurse it was okay to have a killer that in competent hands would ALWAYS 4k against literally 99.9% of the community if played by a competent nurse player?
Ruin didn't get nerfed, the new ruin is better against very good survivors who would hit those skillchecks anyways, I prefer the new ruin over the old one ANY day both in terms of balance and in terms of gameplay as it didn't make sense to crush survivors who cant hit skillchecks even harder than I already would while the great ones who are hard to deal with in the first place would be unaffected by ruin.
Old ruin was a crutch for bad killers who wanted to stomp easy survivors, a perk which I favoured of nerfing too by the way and I'm glad they did it.
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"I'm going to argue in bad faith and dance around what I'm really saying, but I'm totes open to your opinions."
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Again all valid points that I agree with. But my question is, if it’s beatable, why is a nerf necessary?
Many things you’ve pointed out with the Clown, Freddy, and even Billy have little to do with the killers’ powers and much more on the player using that killer.
IMO, Doc is the only killer that needs nerfed. He just has too much going for him. An unskilled user playing as Nurse or Spirit doesn’t mean the killers need buffed.
On the other end, killers don’t need nerfed just because some survivors don’t know counterplays. Which killers are being nerfed? What’s the flavor of the week right now for suggested killer nerfs? Spirit.
Most (not all) of survivors want nerfs to killers they have to play smart against rather than mindless looping. You can’t counterplay a mindgame killer with the same basic loop tactics we’be done for 4 years. They don’t want to learn how to counterplay it...so nerf them.
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"if it's beatable why nerf"
"pay2win doesn't exist, you could spend 9 years to catch up in this mobile game here" *queues raid shadowlegends ad*
"Also I think this middle-ground killer called doctor needs a nerf...for....well....he needs a nerf"
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It's not about the 1v1 with Billy, it's about a changing meta that plays too well into his hands. If I spawn in on Pale Rose or Dead Dawg Saloon and hear a chainsaw, I already know it's gonna be a hatch game. I already know he's gonna be on our asses at every unhook and we'll have one dinky pallet next to a tree as our defense. Maps are having less and less pallets, and he was made when maps had a ton of them.
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@IMhereRUN And I already know you're going to think I'm just some biased survivor main, so here's proof that I play both sides.
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I believe the changes for Billy were justified. Billy has insane map pressure in a matter of seconds(early and late game), along with an instadown with a click big a button with no cooldown. That Instantly makes him a very powerful killer, and looking at other killers, they don't come close as Billy.(nurse, spirit and Freddy are just behind) as another person mentioned, he would have never been released at this stage of dbd due to maps being smaller.
This part may not matter but as a former nurse main, the rework was needed.being able to spam blinks(especially using cooldown add-ons) and ignoring resources survivors have was a little bit too much. The cooldown was meant to give survivors some time to plan their next move and make nurse players think and use their blinks wisely. The team only has to fix her bugs and all will be good.
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Fair enough. With the map re-works we’ve had, minimal God loops, no more infinites, smaller sizes...his power would be too much.
Although he was an original killer, would he still have a rough time in Lery’s against semi-decent survivors? Yep. Some maps are killer sided for various reasons. Size, lack of safe loops, etc. Saloon and Hawkins would have to be rated killer sided in my book. But your example doesn’t apply to all maps. A Billy running Rotten fields will have a much easier game than playing in Yamoaka Estate.
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Also there's this little fact that other killers cannot be brought up to his level. How the heck would you buff myers to billy's strenght unless the maps were so small or convoluted that the chainsaw is pointless for mobility anyways.
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I wouldn’t touch Myers. I think he’s well balanced and doesn’t need nerfed or buffed in anyway. A good combination of skill and patience with added bonuses of stealth and the godly T3 vault speeds and lunge but also has reasonable counterplay.
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Oh that's why he never gets played and killermains who get frustrated but aren't good enough for nurse switch to billy with insta-saw addons.
Because Myers is very balanced while Billy is also very balanced altho billy is basically better than myers in everything except for having a bigger terrorradius , which at his speed doesn't matter much since he will still catch survivors before they can hide unlike other 32m TR killers with the exception of doc.
Oh yeah, billy's a bit harder to play than myers, what a downside.
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I’m sorry this is totally pedantic but it’s spelled “gauge”, not “guage”.
As for how they’ll balance the game going forward, I believe the next big thing will be the early game change they mentioned in their anniversary stream. Survivors don’t need a “power gauge” adding because they already have several equivalents - charges on items, breakable pallets, entity window blockers, exhaustion, and hook states.
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Yes. Its mostly got to do with how strong a player is on a killer, than the killer it self. I am willing to bet, that half of what top Billy players are capable of doing on him, was never intended by the devs. And I have to say that your thoughts on how to balance is straight up wrong. You have to nerf the potential. You have to nerf whats possible to do, and not just make it harder to do. Its not always fun to play inside limitations. But if Billy had those limitations from the get go no one would even give a #########. The game has changed a lot over the years.
The stronger the power the more limitations. Just making the power harder to use is a waste of time. Because god tier players will still make the killer work just as well as before, they just have to work harder for it. Which in turn isnt always that fun. Its fun to work hard to make impressive plays....to a limit. I think the same is what they have slowly been doing with survivors. The map changes made a lot of maps, god loops dissapear. In turn meaning that survivors had to work a bit harder to loop killers, not a lot. But just a bit. Which is kind of where I think Billy will end up. They pulled back a lot of the issues people had with his power, overheating going up despite letting go of the button, overheating not cooling down that fast unless it was overheated fully. And stuff like that. He will be able to do the same things (except insta saw) as he was capable of before, but with a slight limitation on his power.
But only time will tell with these nerfs, personally I feel they missed their mark with Nurse. Her base kit and add-ons were too strong. But they made her too unfun to play without actually limiting how insane she was by much at all in the hands of god nurses. I personally feel like its ok that there is a set of "stronger" but more difficult killers to play, and weaker but more easy killers to play. But it shouldn't be the difference between basekit wraith and Basekit nurse/spirit. More like difference between Base-kit Legion and Base-kit huntress. One is clearly stronger and more difficult but the other if played optimally can still pull off plenty of wins.
As for what the next survivor balancing will be, as some have said I expect it will be the "Start up trial" or whatever it was that the devs called it. The one which is an attempt at balancing early game. And while no details have come out, I think its fair to say that, the first 30-60 seconds of a match is in a survivors favor. The killer can only guess where survivors are and most of the time, they spend half a gen (or half of 3 gens) looking for even 1 survivor, not to mention catch them. So whatever they intend to do there could be very interesting.
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To be fair survivors didn't get Nurse nerfed. Survivors and killers agreed her add-ons needed nerfed. Then BHVR went batshit with power bars. Also I'd say across the history of DbD survivors have received more nerfs. Granted most were needed.
As for the op. Other than the game being heavily survivor sided I agree. The power bars on Billy and Bubba are a terrible idea.
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Aside from being bugged a competent nurse will still wipe the floor with 99.9% of the playerbase so I don't see the issue. She is still absolutely the power role on most maps
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You mean aside from BHVR telling everyone it was just going to be an add on pass then adding the power bar that nobody wanted? They turned her add-ons into absolute trash. She now has what 3 or 4 okay add-ons. Adding a couple of seconds to her blinks because the power bar takes longer than the fatigue. All of which might have at least been okay with players if they hadn't also caused a bunch of bugs for her that still aren't fixed.
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People on the forums are a vast minority. Personally I dc'd against any prenerf nurse just to make a point, many others did. She needed changing and she's still even after those heavy nerfs broken if somebody plays her perfect.
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