The problem with Deathslinger (as a killer main)
Before I made this post, since last week, I devoted quite a bit of my time to playing deathslinger and I think I've found the problem with him:
Firstly, in a chase, the survivor has no real counter-play if the deathslinger plays perfectly. This leads to the chase being unfun for both sides as it loses any unpredictibilty that would make it fun. I understand when survivors complain about him being 'boring'.
Secondly, he fails to gain any map pressure or snowball easily. Survivors can just power through gens and stealth to try and evade him, and this leads to the game being unfun for the survivors, as the main fun part of the game, chasing, leads to the same result each time. Survivors counter to DS is to just do gens and get out. It is also boring for the DS player as he gets stuck in a cycle of downing a survivor fast, hooking them and then looking for more to do the same thing. Any fun that huntress has with her hatchets isn't there with DS's speargun.
In turn, this leads to a bad experience for both sides as the survivors get downed quickly and the DS gets 'genrushed'. To fix this, he needs some sort of map mobility or snowball potential, while also giving survivor more counterplay.
Edit: I do think DS should be buffed, I just think he is too good in chase. I don't like how he trades 0 map mobility for great chase potential, I think it would be better more spread out. I probably should not have used the word 'fun' in my arguement because it is subjective but I do think there is a problem with his chase. Anyone saying that he does have counters have clearly not played against a good DS as his 'counters' are situational or general for all killers
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Well, you can get out of his LOS, and you can loop him on most tiles. Also, nobody has ever played the game perfectly. I do agree he needs some buffs to his basekit for map pressure though, and maybe some tweaks to his chase.
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I hate the people who respond just "no" to a thread.
But literally... No.
He has counterplay, but no 100% counterplay, as no killer should have. Hug main buildings and drop pallets early.
He's subjective for both sides, I personally love versing him and playing him.
Chasing is fun with slinger, so I have no problem downing, hooking, searching etc. It's a fun cycle.
Gen rushing isn't the only thing to do against him, do well in chases and you don't have to devote to gens.
He doesn't need pressure, at all. If he proxy camps and tunnels he can win most teams if he plays with no mistakes (which is borderline impossible).
The absolute only thing he needs right now is a reduced missed shot cooldown to promote going for more shots.
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The counter to Deathslinger is to just hold W and make as much distance as possible. But that isn't a counter to his power but a general tip against all 110% movespeed killers.
DS IMO is in a weird spot. I think he's uncounterable but not OP. And I'm personally in agreement with @mostlyghostly sentiment.
I really like Deathslinger, his look, sounds, and his fps derived power was something I genuinely enjoyed, but the more I played him the more dull he became. Most of my chases were like this:
see survivor, close distance, shoot , reel, m1, wipe+reload, hold w, survivor reaches a loop then
that it. You shoot them over the loop and you do it twice for each down. If they run away from the loop, you shoot them out in the open. Long walls are the only thing that give some safety, but you have to throw it instantly (and those aren't guaranteed to spawn). There isn't much the survivor can do but "hold w" because of how quick it goes off. It goes 40 m/s, at max range that's .45 seconds to reach 18 m, plus ads (.15 s) and firing (.5 s), that's 1.1 seconds to react. That just at max range which you will seldom do anyway, it goes down even further. I don't think I have to mention the ads "mindgame" that is as much of a mindgame as a spirit taking their hands off the keyboard and waiting for their power to recharge.
At the same time, DS is like all 110% killer, incredibly dependent on his power to do anything. Downing survivors is the only way he builds pressure. And there is downtime built into deathslinger's power ( chase, shoot, hit, wipe,reload, chase, etc) that stops it from being overwhelmingly versatile. A flat out nerf I feel would ruin him and a buff feels just as equally wrong.
IMO, He kind of feels like another Legion problem, but just a little less obnoxious.
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But...have you Waltzed with your hooked friends? Personally I've really been enjoying him but I've only had him a few months. I never tunnel, never camp, and try for long shots, i also hook people on top of things. Pulling someone off a balcony or the hangman's platform is A LOT of fun. I just wish his perks weren't the worst. I do like the hex one for just punishment of cleansing but the other 2.. I've never used them. Is there a way they have anything to add?
Thanks Rank 11 killer main, VERY mid. Hehe.
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I love facing Slingers, honestly. Makes my butt clench the whole time. He's pretty scary to be chased by.
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All the counters you list for him are counters for any 110% killer really. Also, you said he needs to proxy camp and tunnel to win against most teams which I think isn't healthy for the game at all.
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Deathslinger is by far the most fun killer I play. I can't relate. Trying to balance a PvP game around both sides having fun is an uphill battle, since usually in PvP games, one side has fun at the expense of the other side. There is plenty for survivors to do against Deathslinger. The strongest counter to deathslinger is distance. If you spread out from deathslinger and do gens apart, it's almost an instant win because the maps are god awfully designed and deathslinger's movespeed just makes it worse.
Survivors shouldn't be able to 1v1 a killer. The killer should be around 4x stronger than an individual survivor. The survivors are supposed to win by collectively being better than the killer, not by one survivor just dabbing on the killer for 5 gens, which is actually possible in this game.
Hell, I find it incredibly boring that 80% of my games at high ranks during peak times are squads of survivors with ds bt and unbreakable, but that's just the way the game is set up. Deathslinger isn't overperforming, and being boring is a matter of personal perception.
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He doesn't need to play like that, but it's very efficient as with doing that on any killer.
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I think that killers should be 4x more powerful than the survivors in more ways than in a 1v1. I think it should extend to map pressure and gen control as well. Also, deathslinger is actually still a bad killer despite being very strong in the 1v1, which shows how unbalanced DBD is. The game is really about time management and gen control and deathslinger can't control gens well. This leads to games being boring as him, in my opinion.
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This no-counterplay "argument" is getting tiresome. Predictions are counterplay, like it or not. Hard to pull off but still counterplay.
Also if we go by logic "if killer plays perfectly" then about 12 out of 20 killer in DBD don't have counterplay. As unlikely as it may seem killers are just humants and they make mistakes, more when faced with good survivors who can read them while also playing efficiently overall.
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But the problem is survivors can't predict his speargun, the time it takes to shoot a survivor isn't enough for them to juke it. He can just ADS and make the survivors juke themselves and then shoot whenever he wants.
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You also can't somehow know for sure which direction will huntresss thorw fully charged hatchet or where nurse/spirit will blink/phase. If he had higher ADS time you would only know that you should attempt to dodge now, not when/where he'll shoot so then counterplay would stay the same as now, predict it slightly before it happens.
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So how do you predict something that that can shoot in less than a second and at any time theres no way to truly know. You seen the clip he provided of zubat right? Comment on that tell me what do you think of that.
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First of all, you can juke hatchets SO much better than the spear gun, even if they're fully charged. You can also juke nurse's blinks quite effectively, at least better than deathslinger. Spirit is a whole different arguement, but i'll just say that just because spirit might be also bad to play against it does not make my arguement about deathslinger invalid.. Even if all your points about all these killers were right, it does not make mine wrong.
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I still think he should be able to shoot into a wall and sprint.
Edit: I actually want to elaborate quickly on a few things:
This would give him both mobility and breathing room for survivors during chase.
For the latter, his the Deathslinger hits a wall he can either reel to sprint forward or do the basic attack to break it out of the wall. This means missing and hitting and object will make the deathslinger slowed down from the extra recovery; giving survivors extra time occasionally.
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I honestly don't like how dethslinger looks, every match I get with him I get upset because for me he kinda ruins the vibe of dbd, he's not really scary, and he doesn't seem like he fits with the rest of the game, just my (and my gf's) thoughts on it tho
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Fully charged hatched moves as fast as the spear with only 1 difference, it's as large as a mini van compared to the spear with a hitbox of needle. If you can somehow dodge a hatchet that's fully charged thrown by seasoned huntress then you should be more then able to dodge a spear.
How exactly do you juke a good nurse in the open that's right infront of you ? Her blink is near instant at that distance and she gets a second for correction + her lunge. I really don't understand the comparison that it's easier to juke nurse then it's to juke deathslinger at close distances.
You've said that the speargun can't be predicted and that giving it bigger ADS would somehow help which is what I disagree with. Higher ADS would't change counterplay, it would limit opportunities to shoot, survivor's gameplay counter wise wouldn't change at all from such change.
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How is that clip different from nurse instantly blinking or doc preventing the pallet drop ? Many killers have powers that make them deadly when close, that's how DBD always was. Some killers can counter such loops while others have to eat it like M1 killers that they are without any ability to mindgame and earn a hit on survivor there which isn't fair towards them either.
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It's different because those have tells nurse and doctor both pull their hand up and if an nurse does it too fast she wont get anywhere. Why try to defend something with an obvious flaw.
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Anymore tips against deathslinger? I have been trying to find other ways to do well against him
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But the outcome is the same. Would you be happy if Deathslinger could raise his gun in 1s (like doc's shock charge time) and kept his MM speed at 110% to let you know you'll be hit ? Since that's the only difference there is.
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No that's just assumption the outcome would not be the same because now you can react meaning you can try to juke,dodge,etc you arent left in the dark.
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So would my suggested change make you happy ? Since if they ever decide for whatever reason to nerf DS I'd like to know if 1s windup with normal MM speed would add the "counterplay" you're looking for. It's as good as doc's windup & MM speed so it should be enough to please your counterplay criteria.
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That would cool but he also has strong zoning for no reason so that definitely needs a cool down too. If you have words otherwise I can show you a clip of zubat zoning a nea.
Also why is it bothering you that we want to have a chance to survive chases. You seem very irritated that people want deathslinger to have counterplay.
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I'm butting in a bit here but killers do not need 100% counterplay. Especially with slinger who trades no map pressure for good chases.
You can have counters, that predicting right, hugging main buildings, and dropping pallets early. But I find it odd that killers need 100% counters so they can be looped for five minutes by good players.
Can a killer not have control over the chase?
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Those clips are horrible, as if the survivor would have ducked they could have avoided it. There is no way anyone can argue he doesn't have counterplay, at least not more so than most any other killer. He has no inborn location mechanic, he has no mobility, he can't go through walls, and his gun is basically negated at indoor maps and any map with high walls (which their are plenty)
Deathslinger isn't a problem.
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I'm irritated that survivors want to ruin killers with unneeded cooldowns and blame everything besides their inability to adapt to different playstyles. I used to love faceing nurses back before her "slight CD nerf", now I'm lucky to find nurse in 1 out of 10 matches. She's still strong but she isn't as fun as she used to be.
I'd be so much fun to see how would survivors react if they got a cooldown on running or overusing pallets/windows, they certainly wouldn't be happy. Cooldowns are the most boring way to change anything.
I'm tired of arguing about what is and isn't viable counterplay. I'll just keep playing and see what devs consider as valid counterplay and if it's adding 4 cooldowns on each killer then I'll voice my opinion about it and if they still add them I'll adapt, as I always do, unlike many others.
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I never said they need to have 100% counterplay just enough so chases dont feel 1 sided and oppressive. Having to guess is not a fun experience especially when the guess is in the killers favor heavily. Dropping pallets early can work sometimes but it is boring and uninteractive for both sides. Run from pallet to pallet and insta drop.
You can also bait survivors away from pallets and shoot so fast and feel them in which is pretty easy making that strategy useless alot of the time. Killers can have control over the chase but not so much that it feels unfair. I dont even feel like I got outplayed I feel cheated.
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If those clips are horrible you saying you could run zubat as deathslinger yourself and have a long chase?
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I main DS. In all honesty I do not have much experience going against him but if you want to know what works on me.
- Assume I’ll fake shots if you have full health. The average DS at least knows it’s more beneficial to fake, catch up, smack, aim and fire to secure the down. Taking a shot for the start of the chase means a hit but then a slow down, reload, and dealing with your momentary sprint burst. If you just run forward while I fake shots then I’ve wasted time and a clear shot. I’ll debate if I should take it for real or not, your probably dancing on the edge of my long shot zone and making me nervous and less confident about my shot now.
- Only drop pallets early if you are hurt. Dance and challenge DS if your healthy. Usually the worse that can happen is he spears you and either drags you in for a hit or breaks chain, either way you get to waste time and speed away safely.
- Auto aim can mess with DS, if your chained and on the other side of a window. Just slide hard right or left and hold it the best you can. If he can’t drag you towards the middle then he might mess up and give you a free let go. I feel fairly experienced and I still get occasionally cucked by that window tech.
- If your Obsession (specially if you don’t run DS) go ahead and assume DS is running STBL, it’s a popular choice for DS. He may purposely ignore you to save stacks. Use that knowledge to help team do easy gens or run in to block a hit or chain hit. You’ll be doing more then helping a teammate, you’ll also be hurting his perk/game plan.
- Lastly, he makes a sound que when he reloads. If he misses his shot or even if he spears and hits you, he is now a nearly harmless 110% speed M1 killer. You should treat a gun ready DS and a unarmed DS differently. If you don’t pay attention and assume he reloaded the he can still bait you. Sometimes I’ll try save time by not reloading and if they look back I’ll still fake a shot to see if I get a reaction to benefit me. Some people don’t play with headsets or don’t care to pay attention~
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I've actually found like 90% of the Gunslingers I've gone up against have terrible aim. I found his gun laughably easy to dodge, and since I don't have him, I assumed he had a slow aim thing like Pyramid head or a windup like the Huntress, but then I watched some videos and it looks like you can quick-scope pretty easily. Maybe I've just gotten lucky? The videos I saw had the Gunslinger absolutely ripping through people, but I don't think that's ever happened any time I've played against him.
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I wouldn't classify someone not having 100% counterplay as oppressive tho, even if the chases are one sided.
I mean, if you want to classify predictions as unfun, then yea that's very opinionated. Personally I'm fine with it. But he definitely has valid and usually very easy to do counterplay on a good map.
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Never have I ever seen a group of people trying to argue about what is or isn't "fun" as if it were an objective measurable thing as with the DBD community.
If you want to argue counter play, sure, it's already been argued to hell, and to be honest it's getting extremely tiresome because while it's extremely easy to just cry "no counter play" it takes paragraphs or pages to actually articulate what the counter play actually is and the fact that you can't pull it off is not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the player.
But if you're arguing for "fun" the you're arguing for yourself and maybe other people who explicitly agree with you.
I find killers like Deathslinger, Spirit and Pyramid Head to be way more fun to play against because being chased by them is waaay more challenging. Because instead of being spoon fed information by the game like the killer is some sort of NPC, you actually have to understand the mind of a player playing these killers and move to counter them accordingly. It requires you to pay attention to way more stuff than the usual useless, easily bullied M1 killer, or just the killer that gives you info about when he's gonna attack, move, have his power, waste his power, wiff an attack, do his taxes and have a nap.
Whether or not I find them fun is a personal subjective argument tho, and has 0 to do with whether or not they have counters. Them having counters is an objective argument about the mechanics of the game and what players can do with it.
Their counters are hard and limited but they're there, people replying to this post have already given examples, there have been several posts in the past few weeks about it, and the explanation for those counters gets ignored every single time. If you can't pull off the counters, then get better and learn to pull them off. If you can't learn to counter them to save your life, then accept that there is 1 killer out of 20 that is massively strong against you and try to play around it, instead of crying about it until every killer is turned into this samey blob that is played against the same, that requires half a brain cell to counter because they just tell you everything they're gonna do 20 seconds in advance and are just destroyed by the oh so demanding and skillful mechanic of going around some boxes and then pressing space.
Whatever happens tho this conversation is old and energy consuming. We'll have to see what the devs consider the right way to go about things if and when they make changes.
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Slowing his insta ADS will do nothing to help his power be more reactive. The only thing it will do is make loops massively in favor of survivors against a 110% killer who is supposed to rely of their power to cut loops, since he will not be able to compete against janky survivor movements dodging his shot every time they see him raise his gun. His shots are predictive towards survivor movements and survivors must predict his shots.
His needle is not the same as Huntress's minivans. He raises his weapon and lets say takes 0.5 seconds doing so, lets even add a cute little sound queue to it so survivors don't have to be bothered even looking at the killer to know what he is doing. Now what? Do you know when he's gonna shoot? No you dont. Can you react to it? No you can't if you're anything less than max range you have 0 chance to react to it. So what can you do? You can still try to predict when he's gonna shoot, and you're gonna move side to side the exact same thing you can do now, except you'd be given this information instead of having to use game knowledge to predict it. So it's kind of like Huntress (way to make the killers into an indistinct blob btw), EXCEPT for one small detail. Huntress throws minivans so you actually need to move side to side and you lose a lot of distance on her. Deathslinger shoots a needle. which means you barely need to TAP A or D to dodge his shots, which I have seen with my own eyes both in game and watching people play, makes you lose a negligible amount of distance. So essentially what this is asking is for the killer to be made useless at loops and for the killer gameplay to be insanely harder and predictive and for survivor gameplay to be made brain dead against him because they can hold W and tap A and D while getting fed info about what the killer is gonna do by the game at all times.
"good luck doing that in the open against a Killer" This is extremely baffling to me. So you, as a survivor, don't think it's your responsibility to pay attention to where you're positioned? You don't think that once you know there's a Deathslinger in the match, you have to be extremely vigilant and have an escape route with LoS breakers? You don't think that even before you know it's Deathslinger you have to pay attention to see if maybe it's a stealth killer of Deathslinger? It is 100% your responsibility as a survivor to not get caught in the open and to be vigilant of the killer.
"if he they made him take time to ADS he'd be very balanced and very fun/skillful." I've already explained why that is untrue. making him take time to ADS will make survivor gameplay braindead against him, it will make him stupid hard to use for no good reason and it won't solve the supposed problem survivors complain about, he is already skillful because hitting his shots is not easy or free because of the janky movement survivors have, and whether or not he is fun shouldn't be part of the conversation because it's subjective, I find him fun to play and vs as he is because he is harder.
I will say the ONE thing i think Deathslinger could have to limit him a bit. H e could have an action cooldown of about 0.5 seconds after ADSing. no slowdown or anything, he just can't aim again, M1, kick, vault, grab or open a locker for 0.5 after he puts down the gun. That way it punishes ADS spam, and it gives survivors a time frame where they know he can't do anything after he didn't commit to his power.
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*insert video of Zubat spamming "bang" until survivor loses too much distance for free*
shoulda just guessed better lol
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His shots are predictive because it's a 40m/s needle projectile. The fact you can do it means you're skilled at it, on account of your FPS experience, it does not mean it's easy. Unless we wanna go over semantics of what makes something easy.
In order to shoot his gun effectively, you don't have a crosshair unless you add one externally, which is not intended or a feature of the game, this means that you need to have a good notion of where the tip of the iron sights is gonna be when you aim the weapon, depending on the scenario you must be accurate with this or else you won't have time to correct it after you've aimed. After aiming down you have to very quickly adjust for any errors. You also have to account for survivors movements and the speed of the projectile. So even if you are used to playing this sort of thing, i would argue it's still a skillful sequence of interlinked actions and predictions that have to be performed right.
I agree, spamming ADS is brain dead, but lets play the numbers of how this works so you see how ineffective is if the DS player has an interest in playing the game to win. You gain on survivors at 0.4 m/s, lets just say a survivor is making your shot difficult and you decide not to shoot and just spam ADS to get them to wiggle. It would take you 37.5s to close a 15m gap if they just run in a straight line. Every time you ads which takes 0.15s so 0.30s to raise and lower your gun. During those 0.30 seconds you move at 3.3m/s, which means survivors gain almost a quarter of a meter in distance (0.21m) . So every time you spam ADS you lose about half the distance you'd otherwise have gained on them per second. This is obviously if they run in a straight line, but it gives you a notion of the slow catching up we're dealing with. However, you're spamming ADS, so they're wiggling and moving erratically. If you were a 115% killer this distance lost is negligible, but as a 110% killer, this means that even wiggling you catch up very slowly. I've seen DS who want prove the "effectiveness" of the ADS spam, catch up to survivors at like 10 or so meters away in no less than 15 seconds, unless the survivor really messes up their pathing. Now imagine that done to catch up for 2 health states, plus wiping, plus hooking, plus patrolling at 110%. You will lose the game before you can get your 4th hook maybe even less.
Now in real life where DS players actually understand this and play to win the game, then they have to go for specific shots. These shots, if a survivor is not out positioned can be anticipated and countered. I've done it, I've seen it done. And this is where the bulk of DS's mid chase counter play is.
I do know about aiming at their hitbox instead of the character model. What I argue is that the projectile's hitbox is still precise enough that this is a negligible thing when survivors know what they're doing. It is a bit of jank that's in the DS's favour instead of the survivor's, but aside from last second shots at some loops and corners I don't think it's that impactful, at least not in the counter play argument.
If you know where the killer has been you can predict where they're roughly at. Killers can catch you by surprise, but you can tell when it's generally safe or not to go for certain things. As soon as you hear his heart beat which is 100% always consistent at 16 meters if they're using M&A you can use the corn to block LoS, hide from him so he doesn't see you or just make it hard for him to shoot before you get to a loop. However I will say this, I don't like maps that have massive dead zones like that. Even if they're not full of pallets, at least the odd rock or tree is necessary to have more tools against ranged killers.
Let us remember that with a 24m TR, it takes the DS 15 seconds to catch up to MAX harpoon range if the survivor just holds W as soon as they hear his TR. So it takes him 15 seconds to catch up 6 meters. Most DS will not go for a 18m shot because it's risky and inconsistent so usually they will catch up way more and spend longer doing it. A bigger TR will break this killer. Spine chill which is a pretty ubiquitous perk helps a lot against him, but knowing and respecting the fact that this partial stealth is part of his kit is the most important thing to prevent being caught by surprise. I have only ever been caught by surprise against a DS one time and it was my error cuz i was playing on windowed mode at like half normal size, and when i saw the killer from a distance I thought it was someone else, so I didn't expect the DS and was caught out positioned.
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To be fair, the entire game doesn't require much thought.
You'd have to expand his kit or buff his speed if you weakened his power seeing as he's already a weak killer.
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The chase cant be one sided then it becomes unfair. If he has good counterplay are you saying you could loop zubat as deathslinger ?
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Yeah, the number do shift wildly depending on the situation.
In cases of both just running in a straight line.
Killers ms is 4.4 m/s
Survivors ms = 4.0 m/s
When a killer strikes a survivor, the killer wipes their weapon and is stationary for 3 seconds, while the survivor gets a 150% speed boost for 2 seconds. After the killer is able to move again, the survivor is 16 meters away (4.00*1.50*2 + 4.00).
Now that killer is able to move, the survivor distance relative to the killer is -.4t + 16 (survivor dis - killer dist, (4.00t + 16) - (4.4t))
It takes 34.83 seconds for killer and survivor to be meters away 2.07 m (rough lunge range) from each other, but we already can see that DS is in range for his power and at that range, it takes .40 s (16/40) for the harpoon to meet the survivor's chest. This is the best scenario and why you can do a 1-2 combo with him. STBFL makes this distance and available reaction time even smaller.
That is only if he gets the the first hit without using his power, if he does use his power, then he'll have to reload for 2.75 s. This give an additional 11 meters making the relative distance -.4t + 27. It would then take 27.5 s for the dist between them to be 16.
At hook could take 3 seconds with the 1-2 or 55 seconds, and this doesn't include the approach.
If survivors run immediately when they hear the heartbeat
With M&A, TR is 16, so he's already in range, 0 addtional time. Base is 24 and would take 20 seconds to reach 16 m.
But this is what I mean about Deathslinger not being OP, he has a lot of down time (and it reeeeally adds up the more you miss). At the same time, it's uncounterable due to how quick it all happens. you aren't really going to dodge harpoons in a fraction of a second unless you are psychic.
Spamming and zigzagging make it harder to look at, because it depends on the frequency on the killer ADS and the angle and frequency of the survivor's zigzags. The angle and the more frequent they do it, the more they both slowdown.
If the killer only spams 1 ads each second, then for .3 s he's 3.3 and .7 s, 4.4. So, he's moving 4.07 meters and is very slowly gaining. Your also only going to do this when you are already in range, and again, they only have a fraction of a second to dodge. If the survivor zigzags, they are moving less than 4.00 meters away from the killer depending on the angle and we get.
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Deathslinger's issue is that he's can quickly charge up ADS and shoot at the same time.
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Literally having A N Y T H I N G in between you and Deathslinger is the counterplay. He cannot down you if he shoots you across a pallet/rock/barrel/balcony
This "muh counterplay" argument is stupid and drawn-out. Survivors aren't supposed to be able to 1v1 the killer. Just break line of sight of keep any object between you and him. It's not hard. Deathslinger isn't even that good at his main strength.
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Thanks so much i will keep all of this in mind
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I don't play much of a survivor but when I play it's just by the chases (I'm moderately good at loops) and you're right, as soon as I listen to its characteristic terror radius I want to quit the game.
It's a lot of fun playing him, but facing him is definitely boring...
I am not saying that it is broken, because it is not, you rush the pallet and that's it,
I like to risk to get the most out of the pallets, but with him I cannot, I lose all the mechanics that I enjoy.
Personally him is fine, but they forgot to balance the fun.
This is my point of view, as a survivor I am interested in the chase, there are people who like to surf with urban evasion and chills ... each one defines fun.
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