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Holy crap with the Gens
So I just had a game as Deathslinger in blood lodge running, stbfl, monitor, pop and nurses. And in a short while gens were going off, and my first hook was when only two gens left, then after that the two went off. I got one kill when a survivor thought it was a good idea to flashlight near exit gate as Deathslinger. I had stop watch and used it for the entire match just to see how fast it would go, the time was 8: 23. So 8 minutes and 23 seconds and all gens are done exit gates are open and everyone left. That is a record for me, never have I had a game that fast before. When I told the survivors at endgame chat even they were surprised, and they even stated that it wasn't that fun, so they agreed with me that Gens need to be worked on. At least they weren't toxic about or rude at the end. So before anyone says " GiT GoOd " or " ApPLly PrESuRe" I ask how can I do that when I have to chase survivors, hook them, and constantly do so through out the entire map while I'm being pressured to apply pressure when I have nothing truly to do so? Anyway just a bit outraged by this but feeling better I know what some of you think it happens, but not like this
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Ive had 5 gens done in like 3 almost 4 minutes. Not fun. (And like 3 of them had ds so i couldn't do anything most of the time except slug for them to get up with unbreakable.
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Gen progression is an actual problem, unless you manage to snowball really hard or you're far better than the survivors. In a game with equal skill you'll probably get rushed.
People have to understand that only because a Killer is able to 4k a game doesn't mean that the gen progression is fine. If you 4k but they finish 3 gens in less than 2 minutes that's something big. Anyways the biggest downside of the genrush meta is that Killers are forced to make 0 mistakes, commit 1 time to the wrong chase and the game is done. There is not that big punish on survivor side.
In a situation where you hook a survivor, you chase another one, and the third one is going for the safe...if the gens are still poping fast...yeah, the "apply pressure" is kinda a meme.
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Preach
I may have had a game like that for survivor and Killer rage quit as soon as exit gates were opened
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Generators need removed for a better more fun objective for both sides. The game sadly is ruined by this massively flawed mechanic. Killers don't want to patrol gens that's not fun. Survivors don't want to sit there watching a progress bar all game either...so most people get their enjoyment out of being toxic to each other, this is why the community is toxic.
Literally every issue is pretty much rooted from Gens being a thing in this game and the sooner they get rid of this dumb mechanic, the sooner this game can get WAY better for everybody.
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But people don't see it that way and I usually am the only one to notice at times
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I got a 2:13 second gen time recently, and today I dc'd b/c 4 gens were 70% within 60 seconds of the game starting. This was with 2 hooks Thanta, and sloppy as nurse. I think its the Hidden MMR that we are all now in, as its really going to show how absolutely optimal survivors can be at just basic high ranks, not like 3k hours types of survivors, but barely 1k hours can so obscenely complete gens, even under the maximum pressure a killer can apply.
All we can hope, is that this MMR system will mark the new dawn of DbD, where we actually have evidence that it isnt just freaky games, and that its FREAKY easy gens to do.
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8:23 ain’t bad. Theres faster out there
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8 minute is a long game normally if i lose gate are open after 4 minute its the same when i win the game is over afyer 4 or 5 minute i stop playing because queue take more time XD
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I never looked at it like that though but they need something else to do
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You're Deathslinger on Blood Lodge...yet you're complaining about gens?
The only 'safe' loops for Survivors, vs Deathslinger, on that map are near the corners or edge wall. The entirity of the map is in his favour. You're using his easiest build and you're complaining about an 8min match?
I don't see an issue here. I mean, did you play badly? Did they just hold forward? Did you make too many mistakes? Did you prioritise hook defence instead of gen rotation? There are a lot of questions you have to amswer before this example cpmes anywhere close to proving gen speeds are an issue.
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Where are those survivors when I am soloq-ing? 😪
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Are you serious geez man that was kinda what was happening to me there were 3 gens just like that
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Damn, thats sounds painful af to play, hopefully you had some easier games later.
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Survivor mains will never say that gens are too fast, neither Killers with a tremendous level of skill thay they demolish most of the games (and they even get rushed sometimes). Killers in brown-green ranks probably don't see it either.
The worst feeling is lack of counterplay and even powerless, which is really bad for the killer side.
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I think the devs want the games to be fast, the 5 engines can be done in less than 4 minutes, it is impossible to maintain so much pressure in the game, the only way to avoid it is that the survivors do not repair because they break totems or open chests or just go around the map, if the survivors want to repair they will do it extremely fast, that's the way the game is, it always was that way and I think they won't change it. You can use NOED and mori if you see that the game is ending very fast and you could not kill anyone.
You can see the best killers and you will realize that they only do the 4K or "win" the game because the survivors allow it, I mean that they start spinning or wasting time. In competitive tournaments usually the killer camp the first survivor who can hang because he knows that it is the only thing that he will be able to do throughout the game, it is a game designed so that the survivor can escape most of the time, that is why the killer usually earns more points to feel that he did not lose.
I saw some of Oracle team training and I even know one who played for them as a killer and they asked him to camp the first survivor while they repaired, one of the "best" teams in the world plays to repair extremely fast and protect each other making it practically impossible for the killer can do more than one hang. The way to play in DbD is basically to make engines as fast as possible and escape.
If you want to be a good killer, you will depend 100% on the survivor and that he allows you to win because he is playing without doing anything important, but if the survivor wants to win he will do it no matter how good you are as a killer.
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duped later
Post edited by SIeepWaIker on0 -
No way you got 4 gens 70% especially with nurse unless you were playing stupidly bad or were handicapping yourself.
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Around 8-10 minutes is fairly average to be honest. I killed a "cool toxic twitch streamer who is 1000x better than me" yesterday and after the match he told me to watch the replay so I can see just how much better he is than me.
I watched the replay because I wanted to see just what I did wrong (I 4k'd btw). I ended up watching a few of his matches and quickly realized he usually plays in a 4 man team consisting of players that I recognized by their names (all of them have been playing since 2018).
One particular match that streamer spent more time trying to moonwalk (on console...) than doing gens and his SWF team still finished 4 gens in 3 minutes.
They stopped repairing the 5th gen at 99% because they wanted to spend more time bullying the killer who had given up at that point.
So they spent a few more minutes tbagging in his face clicking their flashlights. After the match it turned out the killer was rank 19 (MMR system).
Long story short: If survivors really dominate the match for whatever reason the match can end in as little as 4 minutes so 8.5 minutes really isn't too crazy.
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I got to say that 8:23 could be a lot faster. Most average are games around 8:00 - 10:00 minutes. I also think that it is unrealistic to believe that no generators should get done as killer. As a killer, I assume that I am going to lose a couple generators in a match, but can still do well.
I would recommend that at the start of the game you take a look and see where there are generators clustered. Once you find that close cluster protect it for your end game. Definitely leave and pressure elsewhere, but keep that area safe. It will cause the playing field to decrease and paint survivors in a corner. For instance, in Hawkins, I don't even seriously protect the generators on the top floor. They are hard to defend, but by survivors completely them it brings them closer to me. I would also get rid of pallets in your protected area as soon as possible. This could seriously help you in your ability to down others.
It also sounds like you have a problem with tracking. I would recommend putting on perks that help you track outright like bitter murmers or whispers. I would recommend BBQ and Chili, but since you stated that you are having trouble getting hooks, it would not have a lot of utility on you yet.
Best of luck.
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For real. 7 of 8 games yesterday I played were 4ks, 1 of those was Mori, and I had 1 escape, but, yeah, gens are too fast.. 😑 In one game, I was the only survivor doing gens. I knocked out 3 and almost a 4th by myself, looped the killer for over 30 seconds(from progress on rift objective), and had perk to see auras of fellow survivors. None were doing gens. 2 were sacrificed by my 3rd gen pop and as i was working on the 4th, i saw the other surv patrolling the map.. presumably looking for hatch. I got caught doing the objective and he left me to die. I am so glad the killer got him, but 1 of 8 wins does not allow me to sympathize with this argument for gen speeds. lvl 20 killers wrecking high lvl survivors. Are all survivors trying to depip or something at the beginning of the season?
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Blood Lodge is not a good Deathslinger map lol. He's so tall you can see where he is at all times, and the map is so long it takes him forever to cross it at 110%. It's one of his worst maps for those reasons. His only real chance is trying to 3 gen.
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Gen speed probably isn't actually that far off from where it should be when you consider that the devs intend the average kill rate to be around 2+ kills per game. Consider for instance that over the course of balanced games you might have a distribution something like this:
- 0 kills 10%
- 1 kill 25%
- 2 kills 25%
- 3 kills 25%
- 4 kills 15%
I'm making up numbers here but basically assuming that 0 and 4 kills will be the least likely and the average is going to be around 2 kills. In the above example then 60% of your games will end with 0-2 kills and almost all of them (give or take an occasional key) will have the Exits open and all the gens completed. So you would expect that just a little over 1/3 of the time you'll have stopped all the gens from finishing at the end. Thus gens being finished isn't a sign of a bad killer or great survivors, it's just a natural part of having the game balanced around some survivors escaping more often than not. Therefore if a game is expected to last about 10 minutes you'd expect that on average you'd have one gen done every 1.5 - 2 minutes with some extra time at the end for the Exit door portion of gameplay.
And in fact a solo survivor can complete a gen without tools in 80 seconds, which is roughly in line with that. When you take into account that in the beginning of the match it can take 20 seconds to find someone, 20 seconds to chase them, they run away for 5 seconds and then you chase them for another 20 seconds and it takes 10 seconds to carry them to a hook, by the time you have a first down you're looking at 75 seconds elapsed, just shy of how much time it takes all three of the other survivors to do one gen each solo without tools.
That might sound bad but bear in mind that as gens are completed the job of patrolling them becomes easier for the killer because they are typically closer together and at least one survivor will be down or on a hook by the time those above first couple of gens are complete. That leaves fewer survivors active to work on the remaining gens and less time needed for the killer to drive people off them and get additional downs, making this portion of the game where you have only 1-3 gens left to complete the longest part of the game on average.
Now I don't know the exact statistics to verify if gen speeds actually could use a fine tuning, but based on my thinking above I suspect they're probably around where they should be more or less. You just have to realize that the game expecting some people most matches to escape is going to make stopping all the gens the exception and not the rule.
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@Ghoste Blood Lodge is a crap map for all killers. That being said, my point about every loop/tile being in his favour is highly accurate.
110% yet can hit you from a fair way away and bring you back to him. Yeah, distance isn't so big of an issue against this killer. Considering, like I said ^, all the centre tiles are not got good for survivors to use. And the tiles that are decent vs him with gens in, you no longer have the luxury of LOS as you would in the rest of the map. Combine that with Monitor and his small terror radius, i'm really not seeing an issue here.
The OP made a point of saying 8min match and complaining about gens. 8mins is more than enough time to get a 12 hook 4k. Especially with the build they were using. This post is a non-argument straight up. Clearly massive errors were made in-game.
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Yeah it aint over till the fat lady swings (on a hook that is), basically I get most of my kills with 1 to 2 gens left. That's the point of critical mass as it were. If I haven't hooked enough people before that point usually its a muck about smacking people till the gates are open.
Overall I think gen speeds are ok, but maybe there should be a base reduction in personal repair speed if you are injured. That would at least give an incentive to stop and heal. I've had whole groups injured with traps on their heads and still focusing on gens.
I don't understand the bully element (and yes I've been on the receiving end of it) if people want to dance around you and clicky click just smack em, chase em it's all blood points, if chase is at max and its really a no game anymore then just wander off to an exit gate and open it, kick as many pallets breakable walls as you can, deny the opponents any further points by not engaging, you only hurt your own progression when you dc. Worse case bully scenario, camp the ######### outa any last lucky hook. You'll get a heap of hits and maybe turn one hook into 3-4 for a full BBQ stack or even 2+ kills.
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Buddy I suck at Deathslinger
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I think having Corrupt Intervention and/or Discordance would have helped out quite a lot. Having pop is nice to slow down gens but only if you can get the hooks in.
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Get gud. Apply Pressure.
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Not helpful...
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Ah, had meant to say 2:31, and i had stopped the timer after I wanted to DC, but its still so possible that its not even funny... 151 seconds is 37.75 seconds per gen;2 BNP's + commodious and the wire spool addon, and with all of that, resilience and PTY on one of them made gens hell. No gens were finished, but 4 were on 70% ((well atleast tinkerer)). This is the MMR coming into play now, this is what its like to win so many games in a row that it starts placing you against creme of the crop. Gens speeds like this arent going to be all to uncommon. If each survivor works for 100 seconds, basically 2 minutes, thats the game right there. of course with how gens works its more like 80 seconds each, and then 36 seconds together so around 2 minutes with optimal gen, not slowing not stopping and only people working on the same gen towards the end of the game, and only one survivor works on a gen, 80 + 36. If two work on a gen, thats 115 seconds for the whole game. JUST UNDER 2 MINUTES! This is the level of optimal you can get with Dead by Daylight. (I think my math is correct here) Considering an average chase for nurse is forced to extend to atleast 11 seconds with fatigue, downing one survivor means one gen is already 1/4 of the way done, while the other is 1/8 of the way done. There is so much that goes into it, but ultimately, even if you play the best you can, the game time can be ~5 minutes at the least
5 minutes. 4 gens at 70 at 2:31, so that means that 4 gens are done at about 3:20, leaving the last gen to add 80 seconds if ive caught up and started snowballing gets to about 5 minutes for all gens to be done, and 21 seconds to escape.
While it probably wouldve lasted longer, it wasnt worth to chase the survivors.
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To be honest it’s not gens at all it’s maps most of them are god awful especially if you play killer
There are about less then 5 average maps not too bad to have a good game on and another 3 that help the killer more I feel we need more maps like Father Campbell’s Chapel balanced on both sides
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Just stop.. please just stop. At this point survivors really don't understand, I can't do ######### when three other people are somehow half way done with the three gens already and still going. Look todays been a rough day, alright please stop
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they shoud add other objectives and not making faster/slower speed of repairing
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Thank you its really painful, survivors don't understand how hard it is, the new matchmaking system sucks and its putting me with people as a survior who aren't experienced and terrible at the game so I fail, and as killer someone who is a better than I am and they have the nerve to tell me to 'get gud', I'm fed up at this point, I just want to... ( You know)
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thats not that bad actually, ive had games where they did 5 gens in under 5 minutes
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obsessed.
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Out of curiosity, what map were you on?
Had a match last night as Hag on Shelter Woods against adequate loopers. Didn't get my first down until two gens were done, and in two chases, two more gens were at 50%. Thankfully, they were the ultra altruistic types, and focused on saves/heals instead of finishing those gens, so I ended up with the 4k. Still, had they left the first hook hanging and finished gens, it would have been over in about six minutes.
Big maps are tough for 110% killers. Worse for killers that need to prep. I don't think adding time to gens is the answer. It's mind numbing enough just holding M1 on them. The best part of survivor is the chase, but one good chase and two gens pop, so it's always a time crunch. I scratch my head when survivor mains reject the idea of the killer playing on the survivors time table.
An additional objective needs to be introduced to break up the gameplay. Maybe make something more out of the obsession, where they have to complete tasks separate from gen repairing to help progress. I dunno, it's tough, since this is what the game is built around.
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Blood lodge, its still kinda large for what I would like
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Oh no I lost control of the gens in one of my games, devs nerf survivors please!
Bruh, post a full game with a video and breakdown if you want to really show the devs the game is unfair. These random anecdotes from when a killer got mad over not getting their 4k in one game are pretty much auto-dismiss to the devs. Nice to hear you met some nice survivors though.
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So what's the complaint exactly? Your match lasted for 8mins; that's one hella slow gen speed. Especially if you're not that good at the killer you're playing as.
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A 3k is a win. It would be pretty sad if either side didn't really have to try to win. In a balanced environment, all 5 gens would always be popped to allow 2 survivors to get out the gates and have 2 survivors sacrificed. Props to that killer for stalling gens well.
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This presents one of the issues I think has to make it extremely hard for BHVR to make this game balanced.
If a team of experienced survivors goes into a match dedicated to knocking out gens as quickly as possible the odds are stacked heavily in their favor. In those types of matches gen times do go by too fast. If all survivors played that way BHVR would undoubtedly have to make some changes.
That's the thing though... that isn't the way all survivors play. All it takes is a couple (sometimes even one) survivors that don't make gens a priority and it throws the gen time dynamic completely the other way.
While it isn't the killers fault that you have so many survivors that get in no hurry to complete objectives BHVR has to do their best to keep the game interesting for everyone.
If gen times got increased any time you had a match with survivors that didn't make gens a priority you would have extremely long 4k matches. That might be good for killers, and it might even be what's fair. The problem is it wouldn't be what attracts new players and retains current ones. I truly believe they try to be fair with these type of things, but if they lose enough customers we none have a game to play regardless of how fair it is.
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here the two memes
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I've had the same problem with deathslinger too in a lot of matches. But at the same we both know that the guy doesn't have much map or gen pressure, so perk builds will help us with that to a certain extent. But in the meantime we'll have to push through and just continue on for now until something will get tweaked you know? Whether it's a major tweak or minor tweak. 🤷♂️
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This guy wins! You have told the truth.
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There are a lot games on the rise and i really hope DBD gets is buttocks kicked
maybe they'll start to work on balance then
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Let me get this straight. Youre running a chase killer, with his best build,
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The game is asymmetric in design and balance. Killer should never technically win if survivors play 50% of their potential. Meanwhile, if killer plays 95% of his potential, he still loses.
Killer must not make any errors and survivors must make numerous errors for killer to win.
The game is imbalanced. Gens are too fast, there are too many pallets and second chances.
Will it be fixed? It seems that all the killers in the past have either quit or been beaten into submission to accept the state of the game as reasonable.
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Let me get this straight. Youre running a chase killer, with his best build, on a good map, got your first down at two gens, had an 8 minute match, and you complain about gen speeds. Pathetic.
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Y'all can't take jokes. Stop taking the game so seriously.
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It was a joke, as he stated he didn't want to hear it. Get it? No? You must be fun at parties.
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