gen times aren't the problem, it's...
(sry for clickbait title)
Chases are the problem. it's way to easy to chain together different loops and tiles with pallets on some maps, everyone with some hundred hours of experience can do this. Nearly everyone is running SB, DH or Lithe which adds to it. If the rest of the team is prioritizing gens it's very hard to get into the match as killer. That's why killers with chase and anti-loop powers like Spirit, Deathslinger and PH are so popular and hated by survivors (see all those threads). The missing map pressure (because of slow walking speed) is not that huge of a drawback compared to the faster downing speed.
Of course you should drop chases early but if all survivors are aware and able to run to the nearest loop, it's hard to stop those gens. Add second chance and exhaustion perks to the equation and you have it.
Increasing gen times only makes playing survivor more M1-holding and skillchecking. I don't think that's a good solution.
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Every killer should either have a tool to help in chase or a power that makes it so you can expend more time in chase with less consequence. I'm fine with gens getting worked on while on chase. But the free 8-12 seconds it takes for a killer to hook someone is annoying and I feel they don't deserve that time. Solo's never get the job done efficiently.
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The actual problem is the differing playstyles that exist. And that is simply what it is. A killer can get gen rushed and never see the blendettes that just crouched by, or they might get stuck chasing one guy for hours.
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Gen speed isn't a problem (laughs in Red Forest and Ormond) 🤣🤣
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You could have survivors literally use no pallets and just run in a straight line when hit and they would still get all gens done if they were efficient enough.
Personally I think maps need more work done, but gens are certainly still a problem.
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OP never suggested that
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The amount of ultra-chase killers kind of dispells that idea. People seem to hate them (because their own skill trumps survivors and leads to very short chases) more than holding M1. Sure, m1 sim isnt fun... But that's what the game becomes anyway against a good Nurse.
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Nice myth. If that were true, why would survivors ever lose? They just need to pump gens and run in a straight line to win, how could they play worse than that?
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Ormond is strong only because of how strong the loops are. As for Red Forest, it is about average for kills per game.
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2 gens can pop before I find someone and when I do, they pop the gen in my face
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Shorter chases also means more m1 holding and skill checks for survivors lmao, what we need is a new exciting objective to replace some of the unnecessarily long time currently required to complete gens.
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Well this is assuming that:
- They split up 100% perfectly across the map
- Their pathing to key locations (hooks, gens, etc) is also 100% efficient
- Their spawn location is close to gens and split from other survivors
- When in chase the survivors do not go near other survivors working on gens
- Their pathing in chase is perfect
- They play around killer perks efficiently.
Survivors lose because they haven't reached the level of co-ordination or skill to do this yet.
Maybe a good killer on a good map (like billy on coal tower) wouldn't lose, but if they actually start using pallets and get chases going it's borderline impossible to win.
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Not a myth, it's basic math.
Match starts, killer runs to opposite side of the map, probably takes around 15 seconds or so. Spot the first survivor, start a chase. If all they do is hold w, takes about 20 seconds to hit them. If all they do is hold w again, it takes about 20 seconds to catch up to them (seriously try it, you will get bloodlusted before you get caught). Now the killer spends probably another 15 seconds or so making sure there's no flashlight save happening, picks up the survivor, and hooks them. Now to add that all up.
15 seconds + 20 seconds + 20 seconds + 15 seconds
15 + 20 + 20 + 15 = 70 seconds.
A generator takes 80 seconds. During that first chase, you are going to lose 3 gens. Now just repeat and you win the game.
Now, obviously you can't do this on every killer due to their powers. but it won't work on: Billy, Huntress, Nurse, Spirit, Deathslinger. Hmm odd, i notice something there. That's all the killers that survivors complain about all the time...
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the Problem is: most people don’t know how to play killer. Seriously. Following someone for 80+ seconds to get one hook at the cost of 3 gens, for example, is not how you play killer. Even some killers with thousands of hours still don’t understand this
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Then you need to hope you guess spawn points better.
Ormond is strong because all the loops can be chained together. It's one of the smaller maps.
Mothers Dwelling is too large for its own good.
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I see nobody bar ClickyClicky complaining about Billy, many say that Nurse should have basekit returned (but I'll admit a lot say she shouldn't). Slinger will still be rushed because he has no map pressure. Nobody complains about Huntress and they call her one of the most balanced killers in the game. When it's a huntress complaint its actually about hits being killer sided so they're hit from around a wall with a beachball not a hatchet. Spirit is rightfully complained about.
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The problem with gen rush is that makes the game unfun for both sides, specially Killer...but as survivor, is not that fun to just press M1.
Chases are the most fun part of this game and if the Killer has to drop 8 of 10 chases to not lose 3 gens well that's when the game is in trouble.
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that's right, it's very unfun to run around like stupid and hit survivors here and there and then just leave because some gens could be done. Diving into chases is nearly impossible in red ranks, but at some point you have to get sacrifices...
i know that's why i said "of course you're supposed to drop chases early", but it's an unfun approach to play this game like some super efficient time management simulator. Doesn't really feel like playing a killer. And survivors are kinda forced to do the objectives very fast because the longer the game continues, the killer usually gains the upper hand.
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The problem is not gen speed in those map its the map XD
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The problem is the amount of time the survivors need to get their objective done vs. the amount of time the killer needs to get their objective done.
You can solve the problem either way: increasing the time for the survivors' objective or decreasing the time for the killer's objective.
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Or alternatively have hooks and generators locked for x amount of time.
Gives everyone a chance to get an idea of the gen/totem locations. It gives set up killers time to set up. First 30 secs to a minute would be more intense as some killers would stalk, some set up and some would start hunting. Survivors wouldn't end up camped on hook in seconds and killers wouldn't get gen rushed. survivors would either need to use stealth or hide at the beginning making it more survival based.
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What you described is basically increasing the time for the survivors' objective (because they can't "work" at the start), therefore giving the killers more time to do their own objective.
That doesn't conflict with what I wrote.
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It doesn't and it does.
It does not speed up the killer or slow generator repair speed. it is a nerf to early game for both parties, promoting a cat and mouse game and hopefully enhancing the experience. (although that's subjective)
I don't think a direct nerf or buff to eithers ability to complete there objective is needed and will more than likely polarise the player base.
What I'm actually suggesting is
Survivors can't do generators, but can do totems and search boxes. Killers can attack players and inflict status ailments but can't hook.
I get you're boiling down to the basics but the only real objective for survivors is do gens and escape. for I killers it's sacrafice. So it's either slow down gen repair (already enough killer perks to do this) or skip an injured or hooked state (mori's already exist and are proof that survivor would not like this sort of change) . That's the only way to speed up killer or slow down survivor objectives. Both are just a survivor nerf, realisticly speaking.
What I'm suggesting does not directly affect the mechanics of either side just delays the "gen rush" or "face camping" at the start, possibly adding an interesting early game dynamic.
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Killers are faster than Survivors and on top of that, they have Bloodlust so it's not like you have zero chance of hitting a Survivor. Learning when to not break a pallet to keep Bloodlust stacks or drop a chase and apply pressure elsewhere is essential to the Killers objective. If you decide to chase one person for the duration of a few generators, well, that's on you, not the game.
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If you think about it, the game puts extreme importance on how fast you can make that first down. At the start of a match
4 survivors on gens.
Killer finds someone. 1 person being chased, 3 survivors working on gens.
1 person hooked, 1 person being chased, 1 person going for the save, 1 person working on a gen.
Literally the faster you hook someone and chase someone else it goes from 3 gens being repaired to 1. Even zero if they arent using headsets and both go for the save. That's why 3 gens popping by the time you make that first down is so punishing.
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Gen times are always the problem , you can have a chase end quickly and still have gens pop if everyone is doing what they're supposed to
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Because a lot of survivors try to do other things besides doing just gens. People with flashlights love to try to go for flashlight saves for example.
You'll rarely encounter a team of extremely optimal survivors who sit on gens when not being chased, but when you do it's basically impossible to win unless the survivors themselves mess up.
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I don't hear anybody complaining about any killers, except noob survivors about Billy and many survivors about Spirit. Deathslinger is complained about because people don't like facing him for some reason. Huntress only complained about because of jank "hitboxes" or whatever. Notice how you ignored the fact that Hag is just as good as any of those characters, Oni too. Come back when you want to have an actual discussion instead of just trying to attack "the other side". I don't have time for your petty whining.
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Whatever you want to tell yourself is the reason you sometimes lose as killer. Facts, logic, evidence, examples, any of those would be nice here.
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I played several matches last night with the mindset that I don't really care if I lose horribly anymore.
The night before I had played some matches against really skilled and coordinated teams and had resorted to camping and then slugging the rescuer and tunneling the rescued survivor. I could have won this way but it felt super scummy.
As of last night I just play how I want to play and lose maybe 50-75% of matches, which means 3-4 people escape.
I just find survivors, chase them around until I can down them, put them on a hook and go looking for the next one. Rinse, repeat. I don't run a ton of slowdown perks and I don't really bother with "putting pressure on" anything really. All that does is stress me out. I was playing this way and most matches were done in like 5 minutes.
I still got salty messages from survivors, two still called me a tunneler and one claimed to have gotten me banned. In one of those instances the survivor just ran all over the place after being rescued and I was patrolling the next gen over from where I'd hooked them, so of course I found them right away. Sometimes I'll even just pretend I don't see people when this happens, but this time around I chased them and hooked them again, mostly because it was like "I guess I can't just ignore this".
Another person claimed I tunneled them and they were clicking their flashlight at me and trying to get my attention the whole match. Normally I ignore those people because I know they're trying to bait me into a long chase so the other survivors can rush gens, but I was like "whatever, I'll bite, why not". Ended up winning the chase and then all 3 other survivors started body blocking for them, which was unexpected and annoying. So yeah I tunneled them for that.
I lost most of my matches and during one all the survivors lingered near the exit gates and you could tell they were all a litle bummed the match was over so quick with most of them not even getting in a chase with me. They tried to get a few quick chases in during EGC and then left.
My mindset going forward is I'm just going to play casual and if survivors want to gen rush and finish a match in 5 minutes that's on them. If that's what constitutes fun for them then so be it. I'm just going to continue on doing one chase at a time and having fun during those 5 minutes by using my power as much as possible and providing maybe a minute or two of suspense for like one or two people lol
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I'm not making excuses for why I've lost killer games. It's just what I've noticed from solo survivor games I've played.
I play mostly solo survivor when I play survivor and I can tell you that if survivors don't mess around and just work on gens assuming the chased survivor can actually loop a killer for a decent time, the gens will be done before the killer has killed anyone unless they mori tunnel. Doesn't really help that there's not that many maps that are straight up bad for the survivor compared to ones that are bad for killer since most maps tend to have a good amount of resources for the survivors.
Plus my experience with playing killer I can even say that sweat survivor squads who do only gens aren't that common either. Many survivors will still rush to hook save and immediately heal instead of getting gens done which is easy to snowball off of.
I would say most lost games are the killers fault. It's just I also recognize that optimal survivor play is difficult to beat without the survivors making mistakes for the killer to capitalize on.
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Honestly haven't seen any oni threads. I have seen hag but that's just people complaining about camping.
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Yep.
That's why killers with powers that let them get to far gens early are generally a lot stronger than those that don't. That's also why Corrupt Intervention is effective on just about every killers in the game. Every single killer is at their weakest at the very beginning of the game and the tools on the killer side for softening that are... lacking.
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Like I've said before, it's about time killers get a 5th perk slot. They are killers and are meant to be overpowered and intimidating. To balance it out the 5th slot should only be a green perk.
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It's...both of them! Gen speeds and chases are both issues.
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Then add ds and unbreakable and you are all set...
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I think most killers do understand this actually. But continually leaving and giving up chases to patrol gens shows how bad some loops are for killers to a point you can't even do your main objective which is to hook survivors. The only way you can get an early down before 3 gens pop is if the survivor messes up. Most loops aren't able to be mindgamed therefore killers either have to eat the pallets or abandon the chase and hope you catch someone else in a bad spot. I don't ever see these issues being fixes however since the devs are so out of touch with what the game actually needs to be balanced.
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those killers are not hated because they are strong in chase. they are hated because survivors have basically to guess against them, and thousands of hours of experience matter like 200 hours. Double engravings billy was one of the strongest killer in chase, and was respected by survivors(not counting those brainless rank 20s that clearly have no experience in the game nad still want their opinion to be weighted as the ones of thousands hours players). but BHVR managed to make their most fun killer an average one. ykes
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Strongly agree, and you nailed each point on the head!
I will disagree about map pressure though, because of certain maps, and literally having to drop a chase because the survivor is a god tier looper, or your out positioned!
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They do, its called bloodlust
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You can't bloodlust and hit survivors every time..in jungle gyms and God pallets for example. Even regular loops can sometimes be infinites even with bloodlust.
By tool I meant a secondary power like doctor's shock or PH's PoTD. Something that lets the killer use their skill to get hits without always relying on bloodlust. Every M1 killer has bloodlust. Doesn't make them strong or not rely on survivors mistake.
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That's what I'm saying I'll be patrolling gens and not see 2 survivors for a whole match. Immersion tilts me at the most especially when they're on my team :( but ik that's play style or w.e.
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There are some perks and add on that allow you as killer to see survivor auras. I would try one of those for the immersive survivors you are having trouble finding. There's also spies from the shadows and whispers.
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