PLEASE BRING BACK RANK MATCH MAKING
This is gonna be a bit of a long post. So bare with it. MMR isn't gonna work, and here's why rank means skill. Here's why.
1st game: As Oni, I was paired with a skilled high tier red rank survivor, and 3 lower tier yellow rank survivors. This red rank survivor is gonna get a lower MMR score because these yellow ranks couldn't keep up with me the way the red rank could. This MMR is going to lower his score, not because he was a bad survivor, not because he didn't loop well. It's because the yellow ranks instantly dropped pallets without attempting to loop which in GREATLY affects this red rank survivor because he had nothing to work with. He still looped me well, but they were also too scared to do gens. How is that fair that the red rank is punished for getting paired with these survivor that clearly aren't at the same skill cap, yet he's still punished.
2nd game: Another red rank survivor who is punished for getting paired with yellow survivors that weren't at the same skill cap as the red rank. One of the yellow ranks dropped shack pallet, kept missing up skill checks, but it was their mistakes and the red rank was punished. Guess he considered bad with the MMR, even though the yellow ranks were at fault.
3rd game: Wow, look at all these rank survivors who got paired. MMR must be worki- Look at the rank 20 doctor with no perks. How good was he to get paired with these red rank survivors for his second or third game ever to get gen rushed and not land a single hit on anyone. I don't blame him for DCing.
4th game: I got paired with a leather face that was slugging at 5 gens. These survivors that for whatever reason i got a lobby with didn't know to combat against slugging, and didn't last long in chases. I was able to to loop him and keep him on me so they can get each other back up only to get downed again, yet I am punished and get a low MMR score..... How is that fair?
Last and most annoyingly 30 minute game: The rank 19 DC'd on second hook at 5 gens because they were tunneled off hook. While the rank 15 couldn't A: Hit skill checks and B: Could't get out of madness 3 the rest of the game and was in the corner of the map screaming their head off. So it was 3man/5gens... actually it was a 2v1 because me and other red rank did gens and were getting chased and unhooking each other. We escaped, including the rank 15 who did absolutely nothing. Yet that rank yellow rank will get a high MMR score. So apparently doing nothing and still escaping equals skill but rank doesn't....
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We don't know what formula they use to calculate your MMR. Maybe it's able to account for your grievances, maybe not. If not, does it really matter? Over time a person's good and bad games will average out to put them with other players of equal skill where they belong.
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If anything, this just exposes the problem with ranks.
That's it's too easy for survivors (and to a lesser extent, killers as well) to rank up.
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i don’t believe there actually is a functioning MMR as we are led to believe.
If you ask me, they just opened up the matchmaking and call it MMR.
If you’re wondering why I might be so skeptical, just remember, they wanted to hide the ranks with this new MMR. These are good examples as of why.
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No
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MMR takes a while to get the exact result, everyone in the start had 0 so thats why you end up with such differences. After a month or two the MMR of everyone wil be on their skill level.
You can't just complain about a MMR system that isn't even one month implemented, MMR depends on statistics from the player, thus needs a lot of matchs to be in pair with the survivor skills.
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WRONG. I’ve seen this repeated over and over again. This misinformation really needs to stop. See the devs response on the new MMR.
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And here’s the link to the post where you can find this devs comment: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1495263
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Something tells me their "server maintenance" 2 weeks ago was registering the new MMR system onto PC and PS4.
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This proves nothing. They edited the code of the game and added the MMR calculations and implemented in it in the backend, and then the locksystem for Killer, which also wasn't even a month. So I'm still correct, you need to play a lot of matches to get the average for your MMR.
MMR rely on datas, and if you have some knowledge in statistics, you know that the more large the population the more accurate the result will be. Like I said, in 1 or 2 months your MMR will be where it should. (Depends of how much you play)
Creating a post to say it's having balance issues while the system wasn't even live for a month won't prove anything but the fact the the MMR of these players is not where it should be yet.
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Keep in mind you only posted 5 games. For all we know you haven't played anything more than the 5. You might need to play 5 more. And your rank will constantly change past that.
All 20 survivors you went against also may not have played their 10 matches either, or might be playing with friends of a higher rank. Or maybe the system just sucks, who knows. But it's still too early to tell. Even if you'd play 10 matches in a day, someone else might play 10 matches in a couple weeks, because that's all the time they have for this game. So their MMR is going to be wonky for the first few weeks because the system hasn't averaged out their "skill" yet.
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You think the MMR calculations was implemented only in the last update? No. It was in the game a while ago but it wasn't used for matchmaking purposes yet. We didn't know this until one of the devs confirmed that they had it in the background for some time. You think you know more about this new system than one of the devs who is from the balance team? Also, @Hex_Oblivion is not a new player which means the new MMR system should be working for them right away since he has played enough games for their MMR to be where it should be but that doesn't seem to be the case which probably means this new MMR system is not working as it should be.
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I'm not the original poster.
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Currently on PC they have locked the killers to begin to zero in on the individual MMR before it's implemented. My guess is they're learning from the mistakes on Xbox before they put it into the platforms with a higher player base.
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Okay now I understand the new mmr system. Thank you for the clarification on it.
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Is this active on Xbox? I just started playing again after the last Rift killed my motivation.
Almost all my games as killer have had 1 red rank and at least 2 greys. Sometimes above rank 15.
And as a solo survivor its nigh unplayable due to new/inexperienced teammates.
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The entire "after a month or 2 you'll be placed properly" is not true. Halo 5: guardians, using an mmr system for it's entire ranked playlist. It takes 10 games to get placed properly into a tier grouping. There is no mmr I dead by daylight. I've played over a hundred games since the "update" on xbox and NOTHING is different. There wasn't even an update to activate the system into the game. You know why? Cause it more than likely doesn't actually exist.
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Yes the new MMR system has been live on Xbox for almost 2 weeks.
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This is exactly what the devs said and I posted their comment above but for some reason there are people who are too stubborn to get it, saying it takes 1+ month lol. That’s completely wrong. The new MMR system (if there even is one) is clearly not working properly.
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I've felt like a paranoid conspiracy theorist for saying this, but...
I've been saying that unless there are actual MMR Ratings displayed, we would never know if BHVR actually "updates" the game with a functioning MMR system or not. Especially considering the fact that they're sticking by rank for some reason despite the fact that they've admitted it isn't indicative of skill level.
And if they refuse to display MMR ratings, and keep ranks, nothing will change on the "player happiness" front. Players will still point to ranks as a meaningful metric, and will scapegoat it in vindication for the losses, etc.
OP's post is somewhat proof that I'm right on that. It's already starting.
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Not just you. I’ve come across a lot of posts and comments on here where players believe the new MMR system simply doesn’t exist. Or it’s there but it’s not working properly (personally this is what I feel). Either way we’ll never know since the devs don’t plan on giving us clear info and details on the new MMR system.
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It still applies. "You" is "they" and we still only have information on five matches.
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Pls no, ranks can't differentiate between skill and playing for a while. MMR should alleviate that so you don't end up with boosted red ranks.
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This is a complete tangent unrelated to the thread, but does this community know what the term "skill cap" means? Skill cap doesn't mean skill level. It means hitting a point where you can no longer become better. You've hit your skill cap when you've completely maxed out your own personal ability to play a game. It's somewhat similar to skill ceiling, but skill ceiling refers to the maximum amount of skill a game allows players to reach. Skill level is how skilled you currently are.
I keep seeing streamers and forum members using "skill cap" interchangeably with skill level, and "skill ceiling" to mean just about anything. It's really confusing if you come from games that have used these terms for decades to have them just be weird buzzwords.
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Tbh I've been playing since they implemented this and I haven't even noticed a difference. Ranks are all over the place with each game I get.
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They can't even fix the audio files. Every single update breaks the game in a monumental way. Y'all really believe they have the ability within their studio to implement an entire new matchmaking system over top of their already existing spaghetti code? There is no mmr. If there is, I'd bet money it will never work properly no matter how many updates they put into it. Their track record makes that painfully obvious if you just open your eyes.
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The only way to discover if the MMR is working or not, is to get the info of when devs implemented the MMR calculations and how its done.
Then we can discover if the "10 matches played" is really working. I doubt that in a game like DBD they can manage to make a mmr system which only requires 10 or so matches.
I don't think comparing two totally different games will show anything wrong/right. Both games takes consideration the gameplay aspects to make the MMR calcs.
If devs could be more open to the community we could easily be aware of how it works, and really know if this is working. They're hiding it because maybe they're afraid to show something that isn't working? Idk, some clarifications could be great.
I play only on PC so I can't give any proof if it's really working. I played multiple games with a mmr system, using them as a base, I posted how it should work from a basic concept. Maybe the devs implemented a non working mmr, maybe they implemented it in a different way. We will need to wait for some answers.
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I played well over 30 games since MMR activated. Same results.
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I’ve only lost 1/5 games shown on my post. My MMR score should’ve gone up no? Those aren’t all the games I’ve played, I’ve played more, but it’s still rainbow matchmaking. Rank means skill. Even if it’s to an extent.
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Rank is utterly meaningless and is only really indicative of playtime.
A player might be highly skilled, but literally incapable of playing constantly. They'd end up being lower rank, limited by their own playtime simply because they cannot ever pip enough to get to red rank.
Another player (especially on Survivor side) might be low-skilled, but simply played enough lucky matches to pip, or finding skilled players to team with that effectively boosted their rank.
Even BHVR admits this. Skill is more indicated on killer side simply because you have nothing else to rely on. But it isn't a great metric to rely on, and on the survivor side? It's a complete crapshoot hence the "red rank survivor potato" meme.
The real question is this: Is MMR even a thing, and if so, does it function at all? We don't know the answer, because they're hiding any and all details from us. MMR could be vastly superior to ranked matchmaking, or it could be completely non-functional. We will never know unless they choose to introduce a metric that tells us as much.
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Cause BHVR is reliable. Not really. They only say that to hide that they messed up match ranking and people were constantly dodging low ranks in lobbies, hence why they removed seeing ranks in lobbies. Rank is a sign of playtime, yes. Playtime also comes with experience. With experience you also have some sort of skill that expands.
Just to let you know, back when survivors could fast vault at any angle & no entity blocker, BHVR said that took skill.
The only reason they’re coming up with this BS is cause Red ranks would dodge lobbies when a Yellow or Brown was see in their lobby. Guess what BHVR did. They removed being able to see ranks in lobbies, and all of sudden “rank doesn’t mean skill.” Aren’t these the save developers that base their balance around low rank mentality?
Also Xbox has one of the smallest DBD player base, and the even now I’m still paired up with baby survivors no matter how much I escape.
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Exactly with 10 games to rank a killer main could possibly have to play 200 games to get a baseline for them all. We are going to see skewed match up for a little bit
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If your entire basis for "red rank = skilled" ultimately amounts to "playtime = experience = skill" then we simply disagree at a fundamental level. I know people who have played games for thousands of hours but despite all that time and investment, they wouldn't hold a candle to competitive players. They simply approach the game from a different perspective.
And that's fine, but Rank alone doesn't account for that or take that disparity into account. That's why it's useless. Hence why some red rank survivor groups are incredibly skilled, and others are laughable. The metrics required to reach red rank simply don't amount to skill. It amounts to investment. And while most skilled players will likely be invested in the game and will spend time playing it, there are lots of other, lower skilled players who will do the same.
If your ranking metric doesn't take that disparity into account? Then it is fundamentally meaningless for actually determining skill.
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Well for 1. I’m not saying red rank = master level. But they experience compared to a yellow, brown, or green rank. Experience is something.
Also that’s why they should combine the old matchmaking with the old rank reset to keep weeding out those that don’t play won’t stay in purple ranks that make it easier for them to get to red rank. And those that continue playing and IMPROVING will get to red rank from green rank ect. shouldn’t have a problem.
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@Kees_T I'd say comparing a game with a functioning mmr system to a game with a non functioning one is completely fair regardless of the genre of game. An mmr system is an mmr system and there are only a handful of variations that all work relatively the same. The developers of dead by daylight said it would take 10 games to place you properly into a tier which is exactly the same as halo 5. The only difference is that halo 5 actually places you into a tier while dead by daylight has absolutely nothing happen after over 100 games since the update. Just cause you want to defend them blindly doesn't mean I have to and I never will defend a developer who can't even communicate with their community on the issue at hand in the first place.
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Right, but if even a portion of the red rank playerbase aren't actually as skilled as their rank indicates, it renders the entire ranking system meaningless. Skill based ranking/ratings have to mean something. They have to be reflective of the skill level of player holding that rank. And right now, with the system we currently have? It just doesn't, there's just no consistency.
Experience is something, but experience alone shouldn't grant you access to the highest level ranking if that ranking is supposed to be indicative of skill. Because while skill generally improves with experience, experience alone doesn't beget skill.
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