Decisive strike need a weakness
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Yeah playing right is slugging them, theyre right back up 10 seconds later. If ds didnt grant them immunity to begin with they wouldnt behave that way
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If they're right back up that means they wasted Unbreakable or another survivor wasted time healing them. They might not have wasted as much time with their dumb play as they would have without DS or Unbreakable, but it was still a big waste of time and as killer you should recognize these mistakes are something to capitalize on. The more killers capitalize, the smarter survivors get.
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your super bias if you think it doesn't and i play both side so nice try,killer can't hit you if you working on gen or jump into a locker normally a grab.
i seen a lot of ds users do the dumbest stuff because they know they get away with it using DS.
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They also wasted my time in having to deal with them. You dont think its odd so many killers say the same thing? You think im making this up
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Many killers, many survivors, as made clear time and time again, the majority isn't always right. Many survivors say Billy was OP and that NOED is nerf worthy. Are they right just because so many of them agree?
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Then you'll complain about it when it's end game and want a nerf then.
Then you'll want a nerf to it for healing.
Then you'll want a nerf to deactivate when you're inside exit gates.
Then you'll want a nerf to deactivate if you're in the killers terror radius.
Then you'll want a nerf to it when you touch an exit gate.
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Well theyre right in this case. A lot if survivors get a "i can do whatever i want and tgeres not much the killer can do about it" bug up there ass compounded by unbreakable and soul guard. If ds is meant to be antitunnel then it should be adjusted accordingly. If its not then it needs a drawback much like how so many killer perks/add ons have a drawback
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Who misses a DS skillcheck? Even a noob can hit it
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DS has a drawback. It's only active for 60 seconds after you're unhooked. I agree it could be more fun with some drawbacks, but the state it is in is fine in terms of balance.
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Ds its like pop, it only take 1 minute to ger off yes, its anoyng yes, it need to change no
everyone says that its an anti tunel perk and it actully is, but first of all he is a perk and its not written in the description of the perk if the killer tunnel you you will be safe or something like that, its a bubble of protection from one minute, its a perk for you scape if the killer picks you in one minute
dont need change
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This.
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This guy literally uses this argument when someone asks for a nerf to whatever.
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I'm pretty sick of it, always the fear that your prey gets away when you pick it up. This 2nd chance perk in particular has to be reworked. The skill check just has to be made much harder.
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Slippery slope is a fallacy, do you have a real reason this change isn't a good idea?
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you get slugged and have to hope the lack of stimulation doesn't lead to you falling asleep before your recover bar is full and your fingers limpen over the button, somebody picks you up, or you get hooked and then unhooked and that if that happens that you have headphones on and the sound of the threat radius wakes you up again in time ot avoid it happening all over again along with receiving a slew of slurs in the end game chat
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I agree its mostly fine on its own. I think the problem is pairing it with other stuff. Ds+unbreakable+soul guard+deluverabce is nasty af in the right hands
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Just slug
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Decisive Strike has a weakness: performance spikes causing the skill check to jump forward sporadically (think low frame rate) and making it easy to miss
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This only happens sometimes.
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the 60s is more than enough to be abused.
Slugging is barley a weakness either. the killer still has to wait upwards of 60s just to do their job after downing you, and with unbreakable you've got a real problem.
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Do this but up the timer for 1,30 seconds 2minutes and 2,30
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Ahh yes, the classic 'don't tunnel'! Because after hooking 1 or 2 different survivors and still getting hit with DS is tunneling. It's considered tunneling when a survivor with an active DS goes out of their way to harass the killer to use DS.
But it's the killers fault for playing fairly and still getting hit with DS though.
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skill checks are not a weakness, they are all easy to hit no matter what
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When you put it that way I think that would actually live up to the perk's name: "Decisive Strike"
Do the Main Objective or Be Protected from the Tunneler?
(I'm assuming you'll still be able to use DS if you choose the gen objective, but you'll just be in a cool down that will subtract decisive's time. Or if you're indecisive it automatically forces the normal decisive strike procedure around the halfway mark)
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DS drawbacks:
- DS takes up 1 perks slot and once consumed becomes useless
- Successful DS makes you the obsession if you wheren't already which in many circumstances is not a good thing for you
- If you miss a DS it is consumed and you have a wasted perk slot
- If your up against PH, DS is a wasted perk slot
- If your up against a killer that doesn't tunnel DS is a wasted perk slot.
There is that enough for you?
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Because once you feed them a crumb, they'll ask for the entire loaf of bread.
That's why you don't cater to complaints from killers who can't handle a single perk.
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Show me proof of something I've defended besides Decisive Strike with the same argument.
If you're going to slander my name, you might as well provide proof. I'll wait.
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This but add the effect that if you enter a locker that it also disables
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I don't think this is enough. This doesn't fix the core problems with DS.
It doesn't address the fact that if the exit gates are opened, and the person has DS, there's no way to outplay them other than hoping they miss the skill check. It also doesn't address the issue of DS being a "60 seconds of superman" perk.
I would add the conditions that if anything is done by the player to progress the game, DS is disabled. Not for 60 seconds. Just disabled until they are hooked again. It should also disable if a different survivor gets hooked. You are not being tunneled if you got on a generator or another survivor got hooked. Literally impossible.
If they were being tunneled, they didn't have time to get on a gen. I don't think you know what tunneling means.
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What they should basically do is nerf DS from being using offensively, and buff it defensively. For example. Let it stay lasting 60 seconds, but, if a survivor performs any action (repair a gen, heal another survivor, heal deep wounds, unhook a survivor etc.) then it deactivates and can't be used. However, if you are within a chase/the killer terror radius, the countdown timer stops. This means that it does it's designed job better by being a true anti-tunnel perk, but if you start repairing a gen, or healing another survivor or any other action, then you obviously aren't being tunneled and it shouldn't be able to activate.
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it dont need a weakness it just needs to be solidified as an anti tunnel perk
its a simple change
lasts 30s
doesnt go down in chase
deactivates when on a gen
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If they have 4 ds and you just eat the stun it's only 20 secs total and they can't use it during the endgame. Or bring enduring and it's like 3 secs max, making it like 12 secs of stun.
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Didn’t know a survivor running at me after I hooked someone is tunneling
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That change would effectively mean that once you come off the hook, you have to sit in a corner for the duration of the perk. Not gonna happen. If they were going to allow that, then how about modifying NOED so that the end game collapse timer can't be activated while the totem is up, or so that it automatically breaks if the killer slugs the majority of remaining survivors?
Why is it that when a killer camps, tunnels, or uses ruin or NOED, that is "strategy," but if a survivor does it, it's unfair? I'm a bit tired of hearing about the "More survivors" argument. More survivors doesn't automatically grant any sort of advantage, as there are massive downsides to having other people on your team. There's another thread floating around where people are complaining about how survivors can 99% the door and wait to avoid the collapse and go rescue a survivor being camped on a hook. Clearly they aren't aware of the fact that the end game collapse was not implemented as a pressure system to benefit the killer. It was actually added so that survivors couldn't hold the game hostage. Now killers running perks like NOED want the collapse to be a free ticket to force everyone out so they can ensure they don't have to leave the hook.
So we're complaining about anti-tunneling perks, but I continue to hear that camping and tunneling is strategy. So is avoiding it. If the argument is that a survivor shouldn't be rewarded for failing, then why should a killer be? The killer has one job: To kill.. The survivors have to avoid the killer, finish the gens, rescue their team mates, open the gate, and leave. If BHVR isn't going to punish camping or tunneling, apart from calling for strategies to avoid it, then don't complain when people execute those strategies. I loathe when killers face camp me, and ignore everyone else to come back after me immediately coming off a hook, but I have grown to accept the fact that this is simply going to happen, and I just have to work around it. Even if I wind up being able to use my Decisive, the killer immediately comes after me again anyway, so your chase took a few minutes longer. You were tunneling anyway.
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And what about NOED? Why is it that when a killer uses cheesy perks like that, it's called strategy, but when a survivor brings counter perks, it's unfair?
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And even a noob can run NOED and slug everyone in the end-game. Why is it that when a survivor uses counters to your insane perks, it's unfair?
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NOED? You mean the most counterable perk in the game that can be disabled before it's even able to be used? That perk? The perk that has multiple perks and items/addons that directly counter it? That perk?
And only a noob team will get hit by NOED being that it can be countered without the killer even knowing. Countered isn't even the right word. "ERASED" is a better word.
The "what about NOED" argument is trash, and always has been. NOED always has a counter. It can ALWAYS be countered, no matter what. It's even GLARINGLY obvious when a killer has it, even before it comes into play, if it even does at all. There are times when DS has no counter. Period.
BuT WhAt aBoUt NoEd!!1!!1
You have zero chance of winning this debate if "what about NOED" is your angle. Get a pen and paper, write down some better ideas, and get back to me with a valid argument.
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wich is incredibly hard to miss indeed. S/
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doing gens, healing others, etc was proposed many times in the past to make ds more fairer
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It also only works once (and tunneling often happens twice!), you have to hit the Skill Check (and sometimes you miss it), and finally successfully stunning The Killer doesn't necessarily mean you will get away.
If the goal is to make it anti-tunnel, I agree with deactivation conditions but it would also need a compelling adjustment to deal with tunneling more effectively.
Each time you are unhooked or unhook yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for XX seconds. If you are put into the dying state within the active window, Decisive Strike remains active until you are grabbed by The Killer.
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Stop thinking NOED is a free win perk. First, survivors have to ignore totems for NOED to work. And you will mostly get 1 or 2 downs if lucky, before the totem gets cleansed. I have rarely slugged 4 survivors with noed. Survivors really have to screw up big time
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Stop acting like D strike is a free win perk. It buys the survivor 5 more seconds before the killer goes right back to tunneling them. I laugh when I hear someone say tunneling/camping is strategy, but when survivors use counter-strategies, they whine that it isn't fair. Both NOED and decisive are perks in the game. Get used to them, or keep the outrage consistent. I'm tired of people acting like the 4-1 ratio is a win for survivors. You know that other survivors can absolutely ruin a game for you right? You know that survivors have to compete against each other too, right?
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That's why there is a timer on d-strike. I usually never get to use it because, even when I'm trying to get in the killer's face, a minute has gone by between when I've been hooked, downed, and picked back up. On the opposite end of the spectrum, people are arguing that d-strike shouldn't have a timer, since it can only be used once per match.
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It's a Hex perk. All Hex perks can be dealt with. That's the trade-off for using one. Everything is able to be countered, including decisive strike. I bring up NOED because I'm hearing complaints about how unfair a perk designed to combat tunneling is. There are a lot of different things both sides could be complaining about, but all it is, is politics. I may think it's unfair for Billy to basically be Bubba but with no cooldowns and the ability to drive his chainsaw across the map. BHVR was gonna fix that, but because people complained hard enough, not only did they basically revert it (they did introduce the overheat, but made it nearly impossible to overheat), so they had to further buff Bubba so now he legit sprints while using his own chainsaw.
People are gonna complain for the sake of complaining. Everything has a counter. I'd personally appreciate some actually important fixes, such as all the bugs strewn about the game, some of them purely game-breaking. For example, Pyramid Head's affliction randomly hitting me 30 seconds into working on a generator. Another example, as of the most recent updates, is the fact that nearly every time I come off a hook, my character's movement and camera go buggy until I hop into a locker. Those would be nice fixes. And I'm aware there's a separate forum for that, but jesus. The literal only advantage I see in survival groups is if they are SFW groups. Yes, you can encounter a very annoying looper, but 9 times out of 10, you encounter a terrible player who runs up on your gen, blows it, comes and pulls you off a hook in front of the killer's face, opens a locker you're in just for distraction purposes, or sits on the exit gate until the very last second, leaving the person waiting for hatch to die because the thing won't open until everyone else is out. How about the survivors that just sit in a corner someplace, or the ones that immediately disconnect when they get caught? Or the ones that off themselves on a hook almost immediately, especially when you're right there to save them?
You act like there being 4 survivors is an inherent advantage due to numbers, when the reality is that, unless you're on a team with everyone else, they will usually ruin your game. Even when they are all doing great, you still have to compete for points, because otherwise, even when you win, you still don't win.
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The only change I can even imagine actually being implemented is one that specializes the perk more towards being an anti-tunneling tool. So harder to "circumvent" by a genuine tunneler (slower or no countdown progression while chased/slugged for example) but with hopefully sensible deactivation conditions. Doing a gen (or other objective like totems, unhooks or a gate), being fully healed, someone else getting hooked - all decent options for such conditions.
And if it's going to be changed I honestly like that sort of idea. I'd argue most people don't object to the mere existence of an anti-tunneling tool.
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-Hook a dude
-As I leave the hook I see a teammate running clear as day for the unhook
-Down him at the hook while his friend escapes
-Start patrolling gens
-No survivors on first 4 gens
-Find an injured Laurie on a 70% complete gen
-Fails at trying to mindgame a pallet and down her
-Get DS'd
ARgh, CURSE MY TUNNELING HANDS. Time for some self flaggelation. Oh I'm a dirty tunneler yes i am
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Unnerving and Enduring don't work on DS anymore unfortunately.
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And killing survivors is the killers job. We shouldn't have to literally ignore you on a gen because you have the small pp perk/build.
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Given the complaints I see about pop, noed, Devour, neither do survivors lmfao
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I'd prefer it if DS could be used twice and with no timer, as long as it gets disabled when healing/gen/bones are done. That way it works even better for tunneling but can't be abused to the extent it currently can be.
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I mean, yeah, doing a different action could stop DS. Or you could, ya know, hit them instead of grabbing them... then they cant do work...
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