Bubba is immune to BT
Not sure if this is intended and if it was a thing before. But Bubba can insta return to the basement and then BT isn't working anymore. He can rev the chainsaw, catch you at the stairs and bodyblock until the chainsaw is ready, hit you with the first swing. While walking backwards after the first swing, you have to run through him, and with the second swing, his chainsaw movement speed is fast enough to down you. So there is no chance to escape the basement against new Bubba.
Another thing: With the green increased movement speed, it is not even necessary to bodyblock and force the survivor to clip through the killer, movement speed is high enough to catch up the sprint boost after the first hit, downing the BT'ed survivor with the first and third swing
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it was already possible before, but this update makes it easier by far.
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I think we're at a point where the basement can be removed. It's an outdated mechanic, and it isn't very fun on either side.
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What? Outdated in what way? Sounds like "remove gens"
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Basement have always been there, and feels like its too iconic for the game. Imo only arguable change to basement would be maybe, just maybe adding 2nd entrance. And it's quite arguable idea. Definitely wouldnt delete it.
Also i would love to see the shrine for how many totems are left on the map, idea posted in other thread. Other than that, basement is fine.
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So you want every hook to be in a safe spot? The basement is supposed to be tough to get out of. Just because you run into killers who camp it or return to it quickly doesn't mean it's unbalanced, outdated, or anything like that.
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Basement is strong for every killer, is the infinite loop used by killers against survivors.But while those who play killer cry for endless loops of survivors, they argue that it is their right for the basement.They convinced themselves that they have the right to camp without doing anything, and dbd devs does nothing about it.The basement should definitely be removed from the game
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The basement is a death zone. Once you go in, you should rarely expect to come out. It's an important part of the tatters of atmosphere left in this game. What should be changed is just how easy it is to bring survivors into the basement when a killer sets his/her mind to it.
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It's the same logic why god windows got nerfed. The argument was that no window should be a safe spot. Same reasoning.
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Infinite loop for killer doesnt really make sense. And you are pretty generalizing. I have seen noone arguing about the "right" to have the basement. Besides that, I have seen plenty of cool moves to get people out of basements, even against camping killers.
My only point is that new Bubba has absolutely no problem countering the main tool BT. That is crap. Against every other killer, you can have several tools to save someone from basement, as well as just checking in the beginning where the basement is and make sure to not get downed near it. The basement is not the problem
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The Basement is awesome! From a gameplay standpoint, it makes for fun, tense, and exciting survivor plays while also providing interesting killer builds. From an atmospheric and lore standpoint, let's update that #########! Please put a bunch of dead bodies and gross stuff down there! Heads on spikes, hanging bodies, ripped off appendages, etc...
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I was just waiting for you.I wonder who this time I was waiting for it to say "don't fall next to the basement".This is a speech that is spoken completely without thinking, and it is the kind of speech that is said by those who want to use the power of the basement.With the killer hanging you in the basement, you don't need to fall near.The killer already has the ability to take it too far.With the advantages, it can take you from the other end of the map and hang there.Also, what were you saying in the infinite loops of survivors? Look beforehand, don't chase survivors to endless loop places.Your statements are the same as my previous sentence.Stop nonsense for this
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All I would do about Basement is that its harder to get into for the killer. That or the time it takes to die on basement hooks is longer than on other hooks. So killers are encouraged not to camp and so survivors have a better chance to save from killers who camp the basement.
At the moment a lot of maps its pretty easy to get to the basement. Try to equip iron grasp and agitation on hag and tell me how easy it is to get out of that hell hole after she has placed like 5 traps around basement. Basement should be a killers territory and be difficult to get out of but at the same time you shouldnt be able to equip a couple of perks and then walk half way across the map to get easy kills.
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- "kind of speech that is said by those who want to use the power of the basement"
I'm currently like 70% survivor 30% killer, so this is basically a survivor point of view and exactly what I do personally and one of the first things I communicate on SWF: where is the basement.
- "you don't need to fall near"
This is simply not true unless the killer runs Agitation + Iron Grasp. In many cases the basement is in the corner of the map and when the basement is in the main building, you normally have to run around several obstacles to get there, it is not like you can float air line to the basement.
- "what were you saying in the infinite loops of survivors?"
I'm happy they are gone and that they are working on maps to balance them. From both sides. And this is a totally different thing because the killer cannot avoid infinites, like survivors can avoid basement. Btw did you read the original post? It is about Bubba being able to counter BT in the basement. And that I think that this is not OK. So what exactly do you try to push me at?
Btw it is obvious you try something here by starting off with "I was just waiting for you" like you were setting a trap. I hope my responses to each of your points make clear that it didn't snap. I would like a normal conversation instead of some kind of battle. Hope you agree
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I believe the basement should be removed, moris should be removed or made too difficult to get much use from them, and more people should play in larger swf groups. the sooner the killers hit their mmr ceiling, run out of potatoes let alone potato killable swf, and keep seeing nerfs to their favorite killers on top of other stuff the sooner they'll leave in droves and force some good attention to the marginalized portion of the playerbase. So please use your 4 to 1 ratio, costume buying swf influence to pressure devs or convince them it is a good idea to annoy killers until enough of them quit or even better decide to only play survivor any more and clog up those queue times for the lulz. Then I can come here and read all the threads about how unfair it is survivors have to wait 5 to 10 minutes to get a match just to get plowed by the sweaty killers with them being some of the only ones left, while the killers' queues would be from instant to no more than a couple of minutes. And know that somebody dun goofed a little too good that time and that queue sequences would never be the same.
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You say you don't want to fight, but you see the situation for the murderers as optimistic, while the situation for the survivors is completely pessimistic.the killer's perks does not make this situation optimistic.The issue of bubba versus BT is again related to the basement floor and as the subject is brought up here, I defend the view that the basement is really broken and bubba confirms me.Also, when killers see survivors in the endless loop, instead of chasing them, they can leave them and search for other survivors according to your logic.Talk without thinking,You don't have the right to say what subject are you trying to get me into
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Basement is supposed to have its pros and cons like that, its a super safe area to loop the killer in and the killer wastes a lot of time to get you to drop the god pallet, but once the killer gets you hooked down there they can use it to their advantage now. basement is strong on every killer even weak m1 killers, with the exception of maybe plague who can't corrupt properly up or down the stairs.
if you do go down near there then its your own fault. its often better to just let the person die on first hook if they go down in the basment than risking getting the whole team killed.
wanting basements to be weaker would mean we'd also have to nerf the shack or basement buildings even harder, because if we don't the time exchange of the two won't be fair.
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At first, this is not fighting. This is now arguing and discussing. It was only the "I was waiting" thing that let me expect the "you and your opinion is crap and I know it all better" style.
But I strongly disagree on your points. First, the video shows what I said: with Agitation + Iron Grasp makes it possible. That are two perks just to increase chances that you reach the basement. Still basement is a manageable threat, so you basically have a killer with 2 perks. In addition, in the video he managed to wiggle free. Another one: this is one of the few basements and maps where the killer could run in a straight line. If you "quote" a Monto match to show basement problems, I think you should know enough basement builds he did, where he states several times that "basement placement is crap this time" or other things like he has to chase the survivor twice because he doesn't get there with first attempt. This is a time waste. Depends on the survivors if the killer can get a decent game with that playstyle. Or you have to be as good as Monto.
Second, I said in OP that this is possible for Bubba and not OK. This is one of 20 killers. So this is a Bubba problem, not a basement problem. Bubba does not really confirm you. Otherwise we would see way more cases like that. Even hag, which is a strong basement killer, can be worked around. Either with flashlights or by going into the basement as team. She can't down everyone, especially not when everybody is bodyblocking for the team. But noone plays like that sadly. I don't even see hopeless basement matches with Agitation + Iron Grasp to be honest. As I said, it is a 2 perk killer. Once you know it you could even say "I loop the strong building with the basement, he can get me down there anyway, so I just use the strong loop"
Third, every survivor has the chance to get to infinites. It is quite impossible to chase a survivor, hit him and catch up again without the survivor being able to get to an infinite (specially with exhaustion perks like BL, Lithe and Sprintburst which are pretty meta since always, in contrast to agitation/Iron Grasp). That means you would have to leave every survivor as soon as they reach the safe loop, meaning you cannot chase anyone. "Talk without thinking" is btw one of the "fight" style wordings I would like to avoid.
Finally, I don't get what you mean with your last sentence and the first "optimistic - pessimistic" thing. If this is somehow relevant, pls rephrase
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"I was expecting"I use that word because your idea was killer-sided.I say endless loops of killers are basements.You say this situation must be.You have a positive view that the killer kills someone just by standing by without doing anything.But it's unfair that the survivors use the infinite loop without doing anything.In both cases, the same killer kills someone without doing anything, and the survivors use endless loops.(Endless loops of survivors now nerfed).There are also those who play this game alone, there is no one to tell them about the basement.Maybe the killer will follow him first and close the area and direct it to the basement and kill it there.When single survivors encounter a basement killer, they usually quit the game.While a killer who is camping should lose, suddenly the game turns into a plus on the killer's side.
Second,This is not just a bubba problem.(Build a single throwing ax,Oni,Trapper,MM)These characters are too strong for the basement
Third,If you don't want the survivor to go into the endless loop, you can block the area and prevent it from going there.Somehow if it gets there you leave it so as not to waste time
Finally,optimistic for murderers pessimistic for survivors
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I disagree that basement is the same like infinite loops.
Where did I say that I think it is fine that the killer kills by camping?
I know that you don't always get the info from team where the basement is, that's why I said it is one of the first things I do solo as well. When you get close to the main building or shack, check if the basement is there. You often spawn near one of them.
DCing survivors and survivors not punishing camping by just granting free hook exchanges is not a basement problem. Especially DCing is clearly a survivor f*** up. When people DC against Clown because they got downed within 20 seconds of the game, is it the Clown to be nerfed?
Trapper needs to waste a lot of time to make the basement a full death trap. Also the other mentioned killers are not always in insta down mode. If this is a problem, then they are pretty much camping and should deserve the same treatment as a face camper. But that again is not a basement problem, this can happen on every hook.
I can just repeat, except Bubba I have seen a lot of basement plays work out. It is just a team effort you need to do. This is only, and DEFINITELY not working against Bubba with his area multi swing high speed insta down attack.
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wanting the basement to be there means turning a blind eye to campers anyway.I find it quite natural for survivors to quit the game against campers.people come here to play,Not for hanging on the hook in 1 minute for minutes and not pressing the space key.The basement is a desperation, you cannot compare other dc players in this position.While other ants have a chance to escape, the basement has almost no chance to escape because the killer can easily block the entrance with his body.Also, no games work against the basement, if they can escape from the basement, it's because the killer doesn't know how to play.While the survivors are inside what you call the infinite loop, the killer must stop chasing them.(in your words)
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If you find it natural to DC, I would say you are the type of survivors that feeds campers. Would be way better when killers like that get boring games, stare at their one victim and get genrushed in the meantime, so they got nothing to do and don't even feel like a win with their single kill. Just my opinion.
And campers don't need a basement, they camp on every hook. I wouldn't say remove the basement because of that, you would need to remove any hook. In "normal" games the basement is what others said already: thrilling and risky but also strong region of the map to loop. Pros and Cons. Can be rewarding, can be punishing for both sides. That's my experience. I wouldn't remove that from the game because of a problem that wouldn't be fixed by removing the basement.
And as I said, it is only Bubba that is capable to put a wall into the basement. I have seen enough escapes and plays, also did some myself, to get around basement hooking. Not sure what your experience is, mine is that the basement is fair enough. Btw this is also from survivor AND killer view, just in case you think I'm killer sided. Also had enough great plays against me, even against basement killers like MYC Demo, Hag or Trapper. Same with Trapper games where 2 traps in the shack were sufficient to end the game with a single basement hook, because both traps worked and the team messed up. It is fair in both directions, offers funny and legendary plays and everyone can win.
If your opinion is different, I don't know how to convince you rather than looking streams or youtube. I really don't think the basement is a deadzone. It is risky but team play is always possible to get people out of the basement. If you disagree, you simply have different experience than me. But I think there are enough voices that support my opinion. Sure it is difficult, but not braindead ez for the killer
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Since i don't SWF, i dont venture into the basement unless it was previously empty. I feel like the basement is fair though. High risk, high reward. Hate to say it but if my teammate gets basemented by any killer let alone Bubba... there's a 95% chance i'm not going down there, since i tend to get left to die in the basement VERY often... they best hope i dont have a challenge that requires me to survive. Cuz then it drops to 0% lol.
The basement was technically(imo) designed as a kill funnel. "Don't go in the basement"- quoted from 100s of Horror Movies. I suggest to new players: identify the basement area immediately and avoid it. If you can catch the killer doing a pass early, jump on the gen closest to it and create a dead zone for the killer there, as most killers won't camp an area unless their hex is present.
I do agree that being able to Moonsaw™ up the stairs and negate BT is an overlooked bug, since Bubba is the only one who can do it. People's view of fun is a skewed, icy slope. So since I don't normally camp or tunnel as a killer and typically end up with 2-4 kills, i really don't see the problem with the basement. Though, Bubba is legit a basement dweller. I actually really like it when I run into an Insidious Bubba. They're so rare, and its not your typical face camp. Removing the basement would actually hinder my gameplay a bit as survivor, since i like to use the stairs to hide..
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You are the one who says that the basement is fair, then you are the one who camped in the basement, is that the logic?Survivors in the basement don't have high rewards.This can be easily overcome with an advantage like bamboozle.Also, I don't care if the killer does not feel victorious by setting up a camp, the killer does nothing and make that 1 player feel defeated.The basement has only 1 entrance and it is a very suitable place to block the killer with his body.When the killer camps on a hook outside.You can work in teams here, but it doesn't matter how well you do teamwork for the basement.Cause the basement is one-way and only the killer wins.Also, while I was presenting evidence about the basement, you are just trying to convince me that I did a nice teamwork, I did this and that.The problems I have experienced are experienced by other players and examples are available on the internet.
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WHAT??!? Why do I camp the basement? Where did you get that from?! I don't camp the basement! Is your logic, if someone defends basement, then he is a camper or what to you call logic there??
Survivors hanging in the basement OF COURSE have no high rewards, but the buildings where the basement spawns are always strong loops! That! is the risk/reward you chose to take. And when you notice Bamboozle, you simply will know about it at one point of the game and avoid the basement loop.
You can also work in teams to get someone out of the basement, that's what I already said regarding Hag. It DOES matter how well you do as team in the basement, and I don't know if you missed the patch that is several months old, but a killer cannot block the basement anymore, eventually you will get past him.
As I said, no idea what your experiences are, but the basement is definitely not a one-way. Not sure if you just give up on the basement (if it is natural to DC in your opinion) and then surely you will not get better at fighting the basement. Of what evidence are you speaking? The Iron Grasp + Agitation Bubba? The explicit basement build where you spend half your perks to assure you get to the basement in maybe 70% of the cases? I really don't get your position
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You treat me as the person there, because I defend those hanging in the basement.(this is your opinion).in your opinion when I blame you, you react stupidly.There's no such thing as walking away from the basement, forget it.While the basement floor is from the corner of the map in many maps, it is in the middle of the map in many maps.That means you can never ever escape from the basement.There is only the risk that a killer uses the bamboozle, so this is completely in the hands of the killer.What kind of logic is it to think that the killer will only do body blocking.You will get 1 damage before even reaching the ladder and even if you rescue the person inside, someone new will hang on the hook.The video also spends half her money on camping because the basement is strong and easily poisoned the game.Camping on an outside hook is more difficult because it doesn't have a one-way entrance.This person takes it to the basement because he knows.Camping from the basement is as ridiculous and toxic as the generators themselves do when traveling by survivors.
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I again dont get you. Please quote what I said and what your conclusion is. I don't see where "I react stupidly", I don't get what you mean with "you treat me as the person". And I still don't get why you said "then you are the one who camped in the basement, is that the logic"
There is "getting away", it happened often enough. Can't happen if you DC in the basement. If the killer camps the basement, you need team effort to get people out of the basement, same as when the killer camps outside of the basement. If a single person attempts it, it is an exchange. A killer can't down 3 people in the basement.
I also just (roughly guessed) see 1 basement hook per game on average, unless the killer has a basement build. Why is that, when it is so easy to get there?
The video IS a basement build, not the regular game. Actually this is the ONE hated insidious basement Bubba build, where you can't do anything. ONE setup, where the only solution is to focus on gens. This game ended badly because two people killed themselves in the basement, instead of giving the others time to finish the last two gens. Speaking of it, this isn't even a good example of the build, because there were 3 gens done before the first guy was put into the basement. So much for the "always reach the basement" statement. Even Monto said "let's not go downstairs and finish the gen instead". This game could have been an easy 3 escape. This video literally proves nothing regarding basement strength.
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Yes, I agree, how much I play on it, I manage to give a hit and catch up with the survivor on the saw and give another one. This is especially easy if the survivor escapes from the basement, he gets instant two hits, because he runs at you
It's time to buff MoM!
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Even in the video I put up as proof, you're only commenting on your side.Because those parts work for you.You refuse to see the big trouble there.If someone was hooked before the generator was repaired.With the perk of Noed, it would kill at least 2 people without doing anything.(except swf).There is an escape from the basement, it has happened a lot.I don't understand what this means, is it one in a thousandth.Is this figure too much for you.The killer has to make a mistake to get even this figure, and someone with a little bit of game mechanics won't even give you that possibility.
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This is not a discussion about NOED, not about Agitation and not about the basement to start off with. We just got pretty offtopic discussing the basement in general.
I'm not sure what you mean about the video. You brought your points and I disagree and I explained why, not sure what I "ignore" and have not explained why.
I don't get how you get to your opinion that it is impossible to escape the basement. I simply have different experience, especially when at least two people go into the basement, then the killer (except Bubba) does not have a chance to keep anyone in the basement, unless the survivors mess up or don't have BT. But not having BT is also a problem against any other camper on any other hook, no basement needed.
We are going in circles. We have different opinion on the basement, I explained my view and experience and you don't agree. I have to assume that you simply don't want to deal with basement as you stated DC as a valid option, that is actually the only logical reason for me why you think you cannot escape the basement, because you don't try. I have not seen a good reason for your opinion, the video only shows two people killing themselves in the basement. Against Bubba. Which I already said is a bad thing (this is what the thread is about). So this proves nothing about the basement in general. Not sure how to make that any more clearer
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I'm talking about the basement being stronger with its killer advantages.But instead of understanding what I want to tell you, you focus on an absurd subject.I don't even understand how she rescued survivors from a murderer camping in the basement.Either your rank is low or you have actually played this game 3-5 times.It's not a problem not messing with the basement,the problem is doing something and not getting it back.Even if you rescue someone from the basement, you surely leave someone behind, you don't want to understand this.It is a problem if you can save a man from a murderer camping in the basement only 1 time in 100 or 1000 matches.In this rescue, the killer must make a mistake.If you rescue a person and leave a person in, it is not a rescue.I can find a lot of videos for you that the basement is strong, but you're just trying to break my arguments by saying that the basement is not strong.I will not answer you from now on."I just saved me basement is not solid, many times people",Using only this phrase you make a silly defense.These have no evidence
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Yep. Circles. Can't imagine that you have never been rescued from a basement. I see that regularly. No idea what you mean with "absurd subject". Where did I do that?
I'm constantly reaching rank 1 on both roles and have 3500h in this game. If 2 people go down to save someone from the basement and the unhooker has BT, then the killer has to land 4 hits to get someone back into the basement. What you don't get is that there is body blocking and cooldown between the hits. Each survivor hit will simply get a sprintboost and leave the basement, the rest goes on with body blocking the killer.
I don't say the basement is not strong, for the fifth time. I just say it is not impossible to get out of there. If "I saved dozens of people and got saved dozens of time" is no evidence for you, then you say I'm lying. Do I get you right here? If yes, then this is not a base for a discussion. Bye then
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Wait looping the killer in basement? What?! I think you meant the shack
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Basement always spawns either in the main building of the map or the killer shack. Both buildings are normally the strongest loops of the map
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But you said in basement, not in building the basement is in.
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I didnt say it, you quoted someone else. I just think that's what he means
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They’re not removing the basement
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One idea I love (though implementation would be basically impossible so it'll never happen, but I can dream) is that the basement has 2 exits, but each exit comes out to the two basement spawn locations on the map. Maps with only 1 basement spawn would need to be reworked to have a second, which is why i think it'll never happen, but I think it would be crazy cool. It would give some level of map traverse to slow killers by going in one staircase and out the other, as well as eliminate some level of basement camping.
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Just don't go down near basement. You as a survivor need to respect the basement like the killer would respect a pallet.
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