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To those few still saying “wait for MMR to get better,” have you ever tried something new?
So not to pile on, but more to ask a question. I think the majority of people are in agreement that MMR is really messed up, even a mod seems to be saying that the devs are finally looking j to it. Despite that we still have a few in every thread saying, “it won’t be perfect it’s new just wait and see.” To see how stupid that is apply it to a few other games...
Imagine you walk into a basketball court for the first time, you’re 6 years old and you have a team of five friends. You go against the local college team and they proceed to beat you 100-0 does that make you wanna try again, wait and see, or does it make you decide to try something else.
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Works fine for me, as it has for others. So.. there MAY be something wrong with the system. But it doesn't affect everyone.
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So despite the fact that a mod says there’s a problem, and the devs are looking into the problem, we still have people who think there MAY be a problem but maybe not? Wow just wow.
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Your OP stated "even a mod seems to be saying". So whether a mod stated so or not isn't specified nor concrete. And if there are enough complaints from the community, of course the Devs will look into it because the Devs listen to their community and want to fix any possible issue there seems to be. So what's your point?
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Same. It took longer than 10 games but it seems to be working appropriately for me on xbox. I suspect it has something to do with greater disparities in skill and not enough people to fill gaps.
In addition to that the systems goal is to hit 2k 2e. I had a game against a REALLY good 3 man swf, the fourth was a legit rank 20. It was still a really tough game. I got plenty of hooks, enough to safety, but onky 1k. So even though there was a r20 in there, tge game was pretty balanced. And ive had plenty of otger similar experiences.
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It seems to take MORE than 10 games. Much more than that. And if you play alot then you won't get games quickly. I dont what the Devs messed up but for some reason red rank killers get easier survivors and red rank survivor teams get easier killers.
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A mod has posted multiple times on both this forum and on the Steam forums this afternoon that the devs are currently looking into the issue with matchmaking. For reference if you see the "Mod" icon in the discussion thread you can click on it and it will take you to what they said, just look for the matchmaking threads that have that Mod icon. Below is one of the posts from earlier for reference.
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This is what confuses me, before MMR hit I was rank 1 survivor so even though that doesn’t equal skill I’m sure the system could consider me above average... but yet I get rank 20 killers with one perk and 20 minutes in game.
As killer I get one red survivor and three rank 19s.
So there are enough good and bad played on each side, but they aren’t getting matched with each other
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I mean, if I'm six years old, obviously it makes me want to not play basketball ever again. In theory, though, players of an 18+ game should have a bit more resilience and fortitude than a six-year-old.
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Been playing SWF's all night and were all rank 1-8, every single killer we've had so far today has been Rank 15-20.
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I wonder how many players are never going to be playing DbD again after getting utterly crushed by players with 500-2000+ hours more than them? This MMR system backfired gloriously and now I cannot stop looking at the fire.
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One of the posters on this forum - @AVoiceOfReason - has a discussion about this seemingly affecting Killers lesser used than regular Killers. They mentioned something about MMR perhaps working in reverse.
Despite this, for me it has honestly worked better. However, this might be due to the fact I play as the same 2-3 Killers.
As the mods/devs have mentioned that something isn't working the way they want it to, it's made even more bizaar that some experience this new system better, whilst others say it is worse. Both sides' experiences are valid, but why does this occur? Why does the MMR work better for some and worse for others. Because it's evidently clear that's happening.
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They should've put every player MMR to a default level based on their time played.
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Your comparison is invalidated by the massively different circumstances. You didn't just compare apples to oranges, you compared a poppy to an oak tree. For one, I cannot name a single sport in which any event organiser would consider that acceptable and not rush to fix it like the Devs are undoubtably doing. Clearly no-one thinks it's acceptable to place new players against even moderately experienced ones.
The way the MMR works is by having the MMR score assigned to you in the first place. In a new-release game these growing pains are expected and accounted for by the playerbase, especially in a bog standard FPS shooter. The problem with DBD is that it was drastically rushed out the gate mid-lifecycle, without letting the MMR settle in the first place behind the scenes. This is certainly not helped by the fact that each killer seems to have a wholly unique rating that is not heavily influenced by the other killers. When play Oni, I get good survivors that wreck me for that gold-standard 2k in which everyone but the killer wins. When I play Pig, I feel guilty and just want the game over with.
If the Devs did leave the MMR alone, it would undoubtably settle over the course of several weeks, if not months. The point is a sound one. However, the problem is that that is an unacceptable timeframe if you want the game to stay alive and retain players.
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Are you implying that somehow, even though we all have the same pushed codebase, your game somehow functions differently than literally everyone else?
Or maybe you're just happy facing newbie survivors/killers because it boosts your ego.
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I'm wondering if the amount of players is too much for the system to put people in a range fast enough and it's just taking a very long time to the point that it's getting the killer's mixed up due to sheer volume of players. It would explain why some killers are getting reversed. It could also be that the number of point ratings for the MMR aren't high enough to actually sort people fast enough and it's bumbling up the overall score of the player.
Seems it could be multiple things but what I personally believe is, it's of 2 options.
1. Just too many people, not enough MMR point value to actually place people quickly and we get repeats of the same new players due to that.
2. It's rating killers in reverse, by using a previous amount collected and instead of increasing it's MMR for that character, it probably took it away. Explains why new killers are getting harder players but good killers are getting new players.
Note: I could be wrong but these are just hypothetical to help the devs fix the MMR is indeed, there is an issue.
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MMR = Makes Me Retch
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Well said. I've personally been getting amazing matchmaking, but some people clearly aren't. The system really should have gone into effect behind the scenes first, but at this point we can just hope that either it evens out quickly or the devs build in some protection for new players quickly.
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Certainly possible! It may give some sort of explanation as to why for some it's a massive improvement and to others a massive failure. There are other factors that could influence these thoughts (both in and out of the game such as a bad day at work; a great date; your favourite team wonning or losing) alongside simply having a good or bad session gaming.
Sadly, would this mean that even if MMR was perfect, it would not be seen by a sizeable portion of the player base as so. The reason we know for fact now is thanks to some posts by mods, but were they to say the opposite would people believe them? It will never be welcomed by all, but hopefully whatever people are doing behind the scenes will ultimately improve the game for those experiencing those problems.
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how could you deal with that all night lol without at least a survivor match or two in between
nvm I just woke up and my peabrain only focused on the swf acronym and missed the whole comment about your own versing weak killers. I suppose you could take your own swf encounters on you killers as karma, nothing personal. I couldn't delete the comment so I guess this is a nice way to fix it
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All I know is that I can't play Killer Anymore..
I've never even been a Red Rank Killer before and all I face is Rank 1 Survivors consistently who completely crush me, I've had about 15-20 matches in a row where all 4 survivors escape, once even 3 escaped but 4th DC'd at the start.. so they beat me with just 3 haha..
So I just quit playing Killer all Together.
When I play Survivor it seems to be okay, I would say 50/50 matches are pretty balanced actually. The other 50% are terrible though and 100% one-sided in either direction.. so definitely still not perfect. I've probably played about 25 Survivor matches now with the new MMR and this has been my experience.
Killer is impossible, I think the game thinks that I'm some kind of GOD TIER killer or something, and Survivor is 50/50. I'm a bit sad because I enjoy playing Killer more to be honest.
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I mean that really depends on your mentality to things. I have tried a lot, and I do mean a lot of games where I got destroyed without mercy the first bit of time before I started getting some succes, and getting to that point felt great. . Merely saying that as that 6 year old you have 3 choices. You can say "Well this isn't fun" and leave (which is fair enough btw), you can say "I'm gonna wait til I get older" (waiting for something, friends/fixes/etc) or "Wow I wanna be able to do those things" and try and learn.
But with that said, I dont think its a good idea to just throw newbies against people with hundres of hours, at worst they should be playing against people with like 40 or 50 hours and ideally 10 hours or less.
All im saying is that your scenario is misleading. If it was something like, they proceed to beat you mercilessly 100-0 several games in a row(which is what has been happening). Yeah no in that scenario I think it would be wrong to expect anyone to not complain. I think waiting is still a viable alternative but wrong to expect it out of people.
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I don't think that comparison really works all that well. What's actually happening is closer to every chess player in the world having their rating reset to around 1500 or so. So people who have been playing the game for years could still potential be playing against new players for a while after it resets. And knowing BHVR, it's very obviously bugged on top of that. But also, that's not a very good mindset to have when starting anything new. By that logic no one should ever start anything new, once it's been around for a while, because there will always be someone more experienced than you.
Playing against people who are better than you is actually a great opportunity to improve once you get a grasp on fundamentals, even if you lose 20 games in a row. Obviously the game isn't in an extremely welcoming state for new players at the moment, because they haven't had the opportunity to grasp the fundamentals yet, but the MMR matchmaking has only been live for a few days at this point. So yes. Be patient. Or don't. It's ultimately up to each person on an individual basis whether they care enough to get better or if they want to quit because it's difficult and they don't care that much about taking the time to get better. And there's nothing wrong with that either way.
Also the basketball comparison doesn't really work because even if the college team was REALLY bad, the 6 year olds would still be at an unwinnable disadvantage because the college team has a physical advantage over them, where as chess and video games are alot more even in that regard.
Post edited by BrandonBernier on0 -
So to throw a completely invalid, hypothetical situation your way, lets say you just started a new job. On your first day, you don't know how to do the work and the person trying to train you has to fix almost everything you touch. Do you quit?
My guess is you feel frustrated you aren't picking up on it as fast as your expectations about yourself make you think you should, but you stick it out and learn and gain experience to where you perform at a satisfactory level of your employers expectations. I'm also sure this took more than a week.
I mean, if you quit every job you've had on the first day, how can you afford to buy DBD dlcs?
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Actually, yes. Who are you to say that your experience is the same as mine? Apparently MMR has been working differently for everyone. I'm hardly went against Rank 20's after a few games during the initial launch. So chill.
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MMR isn’t always as bad as people are making it out to be though.
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But the fact that it is as bad as it is as often as it is is still an issue, a serious issue for new players.
Fair argument, although I would say at the job someone would be next to you telling you what you did wrong. If survivors lose a game in 3 minutes they don’t know what they did wrong, if a killer gets caught in a 5 gen chase against a super good looper no one is there to tell him he should have dropped chase and found the weak link.
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Agreed. New players are getting a short end of the stick. I guess I was speaking from my point of view more than theirs.
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I don't agree with this. Especially about video games, there is tons of information out there to help you learn. The reason I started playing this game was because I saw someone play it on Twitch and it looked amazingly fun. When I bought it, was I great? Absolutely not, I was horrible and got my butt handed to me many times. Still do an occasion. Did I quit? Nope. I watch streamers to get tips, I read forum posts, I asked questions in end game chat. That doesn't mean I've never been frustrated with the game, because I have.
Most people don't start something new and expect to be great at it from the beginning. Not everything do you need someone there to hold your hand for you to learn. But if a few people expect that, play DBD and quit immediately, I don't think that is going to be a huge detriment to the success of DBD. It also doesn't mean Behavior will not adjust it and make changes to improve the system and experience. It appears they are already looking at making tweaks and it hasn't even been live for a week.
They had to make a change because the community was asked for it. With the old MM system, they would restrict it so you were matched with people closer to your rank and people would complain how long it took to get a match. Then they would loosen the restrictions and people would complain they get matched against people with too large of a rank disparity. Now they are trying to implement a change to fix those concerns and because it isn't perfect from the start, people are saying no one wanted this change to being with. They can't win no matter what they do.
Edit: Fixed typo.
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By the way, these are 2 sample of my games that I played (back-to-back) out of the 7 matches I played this morning. (It didn't occur to me to start doing screenshots until after I read your post and how you want to be an ######### about things). So yes, MMR is working AS intended for some people, even if it's on the same "base-code" as you call it. I find most arguments about it to be false since no one is backing it up usually.
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Oh look, another game.
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And another.
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Well, basketball is competetive, this isnt.
But to answer, it would make me want to play again, because losing hard is a good teacher. I see what they did right, what I did wrong, where to improve, etc. ESPECIALLY against people who have obvious advantages and experience. Because I can see what THEY do and use to their advantage after gaining the experience. I know what to practice.
People act like an unbalanced or tough game is a waste of time. Stop letting your bruised ego stand in the way of actual improvement. Learn from your struggles, dont give in to them.
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So I’m not having struggles, that’s the point I’m having cake walk games... I’m legitimately worried that new players won’t stick it out like you or I would.
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I was a new player 3 or 4 years ago. Killers were pretty powerful. I had no idea of the game. I died 95% of matches and waited 45 mins for games.
People who actually want to play and learn will. Those who want gg ez games, will leave if it's not handed to them. Which it shouldnt be. That's why the logic behind the ruin change was so painful. "Its unfun for new survivors". Well boo hoo. You cant be new to a game and expect it to be easy. Too many people see a yt comp or some people playing it and think "hey cool, another game I can just pick up and enjoy". But it's not that. There is and always has been a LOT of info you have to learn, as well as mechanics that will seem unfair to new players.
I understand we need new players, and we dont want to scare them off, but I dont want new players to expect every game to be a win either. Theres already too many veteran players that do that.
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And another...... should I keep going? Or did these screenshots prove that your post isn't a blanket for everyone.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Well, hopefully they have targeted what is bugged and fixing it.
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I know it’s been said before, literally by the devs of the game, but ranks don’t matter. Looking at the scores the game was a total rout, almost as if they’re low low MMR despite being red ranks.
And this isn’t a rare occurrence either, watch Tofu’s last youtube huntress video and he literally though the Ace was playing his first DBD game he was so bad... the he ended up being red rank.
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Imagine using ranks as a measuring stick when even the devs have stated ranks are meaningless.
The only thing you've proven is that you quite simply don't get it.
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It's not, though.
You can get from rank 20 to rank 1 as survivor in a matter of a couple days. Same for killer. It's not an indicator of experience.
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This reminds me greatly of Titanfall 2's faliure to have a good MMR system. So much that it hurts.
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Actually no, I'm countering the wrong and opinionated statement you made when you said and I quote "Or maybe you're just happy facing newbie survivors/killers because it boosts your ego." If you're honestly going to sit here and tell me that the people in those screenshots are newbies, then you simply don't get it. You also refused to accept that the screenshots I provided show that not everyone is affected negatively by this MMR.
The only thing you've proven is that you refuse to accept other peoples personal experience.
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Again - you have proven nothing except that you think "I'm getting purple and red ranks in some of my games, MMR is perfect!".
Ranks mean nothing. Not even in terms of experience. You can literally get to red ranks in a matter of a couple days playtime, and it's not hard. Especially as survivor.
Your screenshots illustrate that. Many of them don't have full, tier 3 perks, and the tier 3 perks they do have seem to include things like self-care and spine chill a lot. Typical meta perks for survivors with a lack of experience. All you're doing is saying "Look! Red ranks! MMR is perfect and I'm still 4king!". No - you're still facing potatoes.
You lost this debate the second you used ranks as a measuring stick. Best stop trying.
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Well, hypotetically, let's say player X is experienced and matchmaking keeps putting them into GG ez games against people who installed yesterday (basically what is happening to me and others).
Now, imagine that player X is also the kind who does want GG ez games.
I guess you already figured out where I'm going with this.
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Lol what was typed that made a mod edit it for you?
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I mean people were using rank to argue that they were getting bad matchmakings so I dont see how using their own argument against them is wrong?
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I have played this game for over a thousand hours on mixed survivor/killer, and prestiged a lot, not having rank 3 perks means ######### all lol xD
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I was censored because this guy got called out.
I never said anything about rank, at all. In fact if you look at the kill rates (which is what I was focusing on but clearly you want to twist my posts to make it about rank), it was mainly 2-3ks which is the average that BHVR is looking for. Also funny, you refused to add the fact there were meta builds such as T3 BT, DS, Unbreakable, etc. You are completely wrong. In fact I'll even post it again since you refused to read my prior posts.
If you noticed.... 3 of the 4 screenshots have meta builds.... ALL TIER 3. Imagine that.
I'll even include the screenshot this screenshot where 2 Survivors have Tier 1 perks. You're telling me that ALL of your Survivors have all perks at Tier 3? Shoot mine don't. Jake's my only Survivor that's P3 T3 on everything with other Survivors leveled up enough to get their learnable perks. Does that suddenly take my skill away when I play one of those characters for a challenge or ritual and make me a "newbie"?
Your argument is false and you're refusing to acknowledge that other people are actually benefiting from what MMR is supposed to contribute compared to others. You're simply parroting something you know nothing about.
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Right, I said the same thing. BHVR themself said it’s broken and people are still saying we’re just imagining it or making it up lol.
Yep, another thing I said before. The only people happy with this MMR are those who enjoy bullying baby killers or 4k agsinst survivors playing their first game. They’re probably recording those games now or showing off to their friends how good they are.
Same type of people who play Video games in easy mode and are proud they beat it in a day.
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I do enjoy the break from absolutely sweat fests!!! But maybe somewhere in the middle would be nice? You’re right I have to actively let survivors regroup and reset almost every game to get a decent amount of BPs.
Im wondering if going easy on them is preventing me from gaining MMR, even though I 4k maybe it’s not a good 4k? Maybe 12 hooking is no longer our goal?
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Over 1000 hours! Damn, guess that makes your opinion more valid. I suppose I'll take my 3500+ hours and go ######### myself, lol
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