Sprint Burst
Ok, so let's discuss Sprint Burst - one of, if not the strongest and most OP perk in the game. My suggestion is that we need to balance it with Lithe and DH first of all, to create more variation among exhaustion perks.
WHY NERF SB?
I believe Lithe and Dead Hard are very well balanced perks that require skill, can be countered and have a level of risk/reward that is fair on both sides. Neither one will be 100% effective all of the time.
SB on the other hand provides the same sprint distance, but with no skill requirement. It is guaranteed to work, has very little if any counter and is a hard counter to many of the games weaker killers (Wraith, , MM, Amanda, Leatherface).
The downside is you can't sprint if you want to save it for when it's needed. But this is really a negative externality that the rest of the team suffers more than the user. Here is why:
Lets say youre on the hook and need to be saved. The SB user will walk slowly and take a long time to do anything. The Lithe or DH user will play the game far more quickly and efficiently.
A second example: the player who sprints everywhere is more likely to get spotted due to the tracks, while the SB user remains hidden. In short - other survivors suffer when there is an SB user. Where as SB users only stand to gain from evryone lese using other perks.
SB also has a uniquely powerful aspect: it can be activated the moment you get off the hook, allowing easy escapes after a bad save, or after a DS or if killer was bodyblocked.
Therefore, it simply must have it's values reduced.
MY SUGGESTION
150% speed for 1.5 or 2 seconds.
OR
120% speed for 3 seconds.
Comments
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Honestly I would really like them to fix the fact that you can't hit sprint burst currently with an m1, it feels like SB is given i-frames or something. With that fixed it still might be "too good" but, it wont be nearly as bad as it is now.
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Also the pig isn't viable because of how SB works. She needs to be faster during ambush or SB needs to change.
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Sprint burst gives you such a high advantage because you can hard counter a lot of killer's abilites.
Pig's ambush, stealth Myers trying to attack you, etc. In general you can wait until the killer is right next to you and savely sprint to a pallet or a loop. There is no fear anymore because you always get a heads up in a chase and avoid early hits and you can play extra cocky.
I'd suggest that you only get the sprint burst after 5 seconds of sprinting. Thus survivors can not just get a free out of jail card and would fear killers more.
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Other posters have already hit the nail on the head.
SB is miles better than Lithe and Dead Hard - DH only being good against Nurses. The other two could see some minor number tweak buffs, but Sprint Burst is definitely in need of some nerfs.
At the very least, I would like to see the Sprint Burst invincibility-frames removed. It is very tiresome to swing at someone, get the bloodswipe animation (because your hit connected), but they aren't injured because they used sprint burst.
It's equally if not more tiresome to chainsaw someone with Hillbilly, but the chainsaw slashes through thin air and puts you on cooldown because the survivor somehow sprintbursted out of the hit.
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Claudette the trouble with that is it would pretty much trump Lithe, as it would be the same, minus the need to find a vault.
But yeah its certainly a better idea than what we have now.
Any more ideas guys?
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I believe a speed reduction over three seconds, like the second option suggested by the OP, would be a step in the proper direction as it would potentially take care of the annoying technical invincibility sprint burst grants. From what I understand, it happens because from the game's perspective the survivor is moving faster than the killer's lunge, which in turn means if you're trying to lunge at them from behind you can technically never catch up to their hitbox. Slowing the speed of SB should help with that, in theory at least.
There is a second change which gets brought up time and time again: make it so exhaustion can't cool down while you're running. As someone who has been on both sides of it often enough, hitting a sprint burst mid-chase or after a DS feels extremely cheap, undeserved and powerful, especially with the amount of safe pallets and strong window loops spread throughout most maps.
If there was some skill involved, as is the case with dead hard for example, I don't believe there would be any problems with it. But as it stands, SB is arguably the most powerful and brain-dead perk with little to no counter-play, depending on the killer you're playing. It eliminates virtually all need for anticipation, general awareness and positional understanding... and it's something I learned the hard way when I stopped using exhaustion perks completely after a few hundred hours.
Additionally I also believe this change to the way exhaustion works would force SB users to actually move more slowly and conserve their sprint for the chase rather than just run around the map, which in turn just might slow down the game a bit.
All in all, I believe it would be beneficial to try and turn it into a perk which still requires some skill and understanding to pull off rather than the simple get-out-of-jail free card it might as well currently be. Yes, those nerfs would be pretty significant from what it is now, but in my opinion survivor perks should never actually be this powerful because of two main reasons: they can be quadruple-stacked, and the game's core mechanics and defensive resources already heavily favour survivors over killers (provided they are of similar skill levels and both sides actually try to win instead of memeing).
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I just thought of another idea.
The longer you go without running, the more tokens you get. And each token grants an extra second of sprint. So for example 30 seconds would give you 1 second. a minute and a half since you last ran would give you 3 seconds. You could even cap it at 4 or 5, since it comes with the penalty of running.
However... its too easy now to just be doing a gen for 2 mins and have it all saved up without having to do anything. So a little extra work would be needed.
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@comrad101 said:
If there was some skill involved, as is the case with dead hard for example, I don't believe there would be any problems with it. But as it stands, SB is arguably the most powerful and brain-dead perk with little to no counter-play, depending on the killer you're playing. It eliminates virtually all need for anticipation, general awareness and positional understanding... and it's something I learned the hard way when I stopped using exhaustion perks completely after a few hundred hours.Compared to all the other more intellectual perks in the game with their layers of counter-play?
I think you're simplifying things a little bit. Even the simple decision of whether to burn it early or save it by walking is more thought than goes into most perks in the game, on either side.
I do think that SB is and always has been, nerfs aside, the strongest perk in the game, but you could make a similar 'braindead' argument for any perk.-1 -
That is one decision to make. And frankly, its not a hard one. Here, i'll make it for you:
Are you on or close to a gen? Don't use it
Are you on the opposite side of the map to where you need to be? Use it
Are you close to a hook to make a save? Don't use it... yet.
Is it the start of the match? Don't use it.
Is the killer coming at you? Use itWow! So much skill involved in reading and memorising the list above.
DH however requires timing and still might be useless. Its situational and slightly luck based.
Lithe requires great attention to detail, planning and in some cases ingenuity to manufacture your own vault.
SB is a perk any noob can use by simply sitting on a gen and pressing sprint when even a top top killer comes to ambush them.1 -
It should activate after 2-3 seconds of running in a straight line. That way it can't bait out hits or chainsaws.
But just nerfing the values is really lazy.
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@Visionmaker said:
It should activate after 2-3 seconds of running in a straight line. That way it can't bait out hits or chainsaws.But just nerfing the values is really lazy.
good idea!
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@Visionmaker said:
It should activate after 2-3 seconds of running in a straight line. That way it can't bait out hits or chainsaws.But just nerfing the values is really lazy.
I don't see it as lazy; simple changes are elegant, easy to do, and don't change the perk into something people are entirely unfamiliar with.
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My issue with sprint burst is that it plays directly into looping. It also nerfs other killers that aren’t nurse,billy,huntress they get a good distance so fast you can’t do anything as Myers or any of the other killers who can’t make you the distance fast enough.0
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@sorrowen said:
My issue with sprint burst is that it plays directly into looping. It also nerfs other killers that aren’t nurse,billy,huntress they get a good distance so fast you can’t do anything as Myers or any of the other killers who can’t make you the distance fast enough.Big reason why high ranked survivors use it. They are more interested in looping the killer around forever instead of actually trying to evade them. Takes more skill to evade than loop.
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I had a leatherface game a week or two ago where I kited all over because of that sprint burst. It wasn’t fun and of course gens get done so fast that it was basically a wast of a game. I main nurse for two reasons 1. I hate looping 2.I get too decide where survivors go 3. I feel like I have the power as nurse not them. Killers need to be like nurse they make the choices it’s not dictated by survivors. Gens being done so fast removes a lot of power and pressure though on survivors.Michael_Myers said:@sorrowen said:
My issue with sprint burst is that it plays directly into looping. It also nerfs other killers that aren’t nurse,billy,huntress they get a good distance so fast you can’t do anything as Myers or any of the other killers who can’t make you the distance fast enough.Big reason why high ranked survivors use it. They are more interested in looping the killer around forever instead of actually trying to evade them. Takes more skill to evade than loop.
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+1 to this, SB denies the Pig and other stealth killers.
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Yeah I run Monto's window vault Myers build to counter looping. Kinda sucks I have to make a build specifically to do that, but it is what it is lol
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@Doctor_Derek said:
Also the pig isn't viable because of how SB works. She needs to be faster during ambush or SB needs to change.Leatherface suffers from this as well while you're charging your chainsaw.
It's truly is a problem perk.
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Using SB isn't that much of a God Ability. DH is over used and is more of a nuisance. Lithe is a decent perk when used correctly.
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SB actually eliminates unsafe areas of the map they can just sprint to a pallet heavy area. Lithe is good but it’s not op SB is pretty brokenly strong at this point.HookMeDaddy said:Using SB isn't that much of a God Ability. DH is over used and is more of a nuisance. Lithe is a decent perk when used correctly.
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I was just saying that it needs to adjusted. It's a free escape every time. An easy fix to start off is you GAIN exhaustion while being chased. So if you use SB, you aren't getting it again and unless you lose the killer you won't be getting it back.
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@Caretaker said:
An easy fix to start off is you GAIN exhaustion while being chased. So if you use SB, you aren't getting it again and unless you lose the killer you won't be getting it back.Interesting and logical.
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Sprint burst rewards bad play in it's current state, as you can be in the open and not care about the killer approaching. If you're caught with your pants down, it's your fault and you should be punished. There should be a mechanic where you have to be running for 5/4/3 seconds BEFORE sprint burst activates (level 3 being 3 seconds, level 1 being 5 seconds). This would solve most of the problems associated with the perk.
Not paying attention to your surroundings? You'll get hit if you don't move. You can stagger your run to get to a hook save to prevent crouch walking across the map, or just not save it and learn to be chased properly for more than a minute.0 -
It may look OP and easy escape from killer which is most of the case, but nobody ever mentioned that it hinders you from moving in normal sprint speed, and you must save it by walking, because as soon as you hit the sprint button, it will get activated, it would actually be OP if it was ability that we can trigger, like DH for example, press key to activate said perk.
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@Leon said:
It may look OP and easy escape from killer which is most of the case, but nobody ever mentioned that it hinders you from moving in normal sprint speed, and you must save it by walking, because as soon as you hit the sprint button, it will get activated, it would actually be OP if it was ability that we can trigger, like DH for example, press key to activate said perk.You sir, are a genius.
You MUST save it? Or...here's an idea.. the person equipping the perk learns to play correctly and not lean on it like a crutch. Just learn to loop/juke a killer for a minute and the "problem" you mentioned is removed
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@SaltyKiller said:
@only1biggs said:
Sprint burst rewards bad play in it's current state, as you can be in the open and not care about the killer approaching. If you're caught with your pants down, it's your fault and you should be punished. There should be a mechanic where you have to be running for 5/4/3 seconds BEFORE sprint burst activates (level 3 being 3 seconds, level 1 being 5 seconds). This would solve most of the problems associated with the perk.
Not paying attention to your surroundings? You'll get hit if you don't move. You can stagger your run to get to a hook save to prevent crouch walking across the map, or just not save it and learn to be chased properly for more than a minute.This a million times this. I would adjust the stats slightly to 7/6/5 which I think would still be fair.
Yeah, the numbers I suggested were just an example
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@only1biggs said:
@Leon said:
It may look OP and easy escape from killer which is most of the case, but nobody ever mentioned that it hinders you from moving in normal sprint speed, and you must save it by walking, because as soon as you hit the sprint button, it will get activated, it would actually be OP if it was ability that we can trigger, like DH for example, press key to activate said perk.You sir, are a genius.
You MUST save it? Or...here's an idea.. the person equipping the perk learns to play correctly and not lean on it like a crutch. Just learn to loop/juke a killer for a minute and the "problem" you mentioned is removed
Here is the thing that happened all over in dbd forum in steam and still happen here, sprint burst can be used in different cases, you think i only save it for killer or not able to juke etc. saving it is easy, i personally use it to run fast to hooked person when killer leaves them in safe distance and unhook, to not waste time, if killer is near me while i repair gens etc i will try to stay hidden as much, won't be wasting it.
After all it is a perk, it doesn't save me when i'm caught by the killer, not everyone using SB is a looper, every single dbd player needs to know people aren't the same, the hate that is seen on certain perks is off the chart, DS we got it, but SB 50/50. my opinion.
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@Leon said:
@only1biggs said:
@Leon said:
It may look OP and easy escape from killer which is most of the case, but nobody ever mentioned that it hinders you from moving in normal sprint speed, and you must save it by walking, because as soon as you hit the sprint button, it will get activated, it would actually be OP if it was ability that we can trigger, like DH for example, press key to activate said perk.You sir, are a genius.
You MUST save it? Or...here's an idea.. the person equipping the perk learns to play correctly and not lean on it like a crutch. Just learn to loop/juke a killer for a minute and the "problem" you mentioned is removed
Here is the thing that happened all over in dbd forum in steam and still happen here, sprint burst can be used in different cases, you think i only save it for killer or not able to juke etc. saving it is easy, i personally use it to run fast to hooked person when killer leaves them in safe distance and unhook, to not waste time, if killer is near me while i repair gens etc i will try to stay hidden as much, won't be wasting it.
After all it is a perk, it doesn't save me when i'm caught by the killer, not everyone using SB is a looper, every single dbd player needs to know people aren't the same, the hate that is seen on certain perks is off the chart, DS we got it, but SB 50/50. my opinion.
You're the one who mentioned saving it..
Yeah it can be used in different situations, but by the majority of users, it's just to get out of jail free by waiting until the killer gets close when you are caught with your pants down.
Sprint burst just needs a slight adjustment, one I suggested above, but it's without doubt one of the strongest perks in the game. I don't care too much about it, but I gave a suggestion that could help.
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As someone else stated above :
SB needs to force the survivor to run for a certain amount of time before triggering. (5s sounds enough)
Devs are actually considering that option.
https://imgur.com/a/ZPn4BPG1 -
@Runiver said:
As someone else stated above :
SB needs to force the survivor to run for a certain amount of time before triggering. (5s sounds enough)
Devs are actually considering that option.
https://imgur.com/a/ZPn4BPGas a SB user, i see this as a buff and not nerf, now idk how it will work, if i stopped sprinting before it triggers would it reset the counter of 5 secs? if yes, then totally a buff for SB, because i can now sprint for 4 secs, stop sprinting, back again to sprint, as if nothing happened, muscle memory to get used to it.
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@Leon said:
@Runiver said:
As someone else stated above :
SB needs to force the survivor to run for a certain amount of time before triggering. (5s sounds enough)
Devs are actually considering that option.
https://imgur.com/a/ZPn4BPGas a SB user, i see this as a buff and not nerf, now idk how it will work, if i stopped sprinting before it triggers would it reset the counter of 5 secs? if yes, then totally a buff for SB, because i can now sprint for 4 secs, stop sprinting, back again to sprint, as if nothing happened, muscle memory to get used to it.
Yup, that would be a benefit for sure.
But it would have way more downsides overall.
It's not like the perk need to be trashed anyway.
Lithe is also quite strong, but pretty balanced, right ?0 -
Or you can use Urban Evasion and almost completely negate the lack of faster movement AND gain the benefit of better stealth. Or you can just run Vigil and Sprint Burst around anyway cuz you'll get it super fast. As for running before getting SB it'll be a buff in my eyes. They'll leave areas faster gain more distance, it's not gonna work sadly.
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@Caretaker said:
They'll leave areas faster gain more distance, it's not gonna work sadly.This is the point. You are supposed to avoid the killer, not get caught with your pants down in the open and still get away because of a perk.
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@only1biggs said:
@Caretaker said:
They'll leave areas faster gain more distance, it's not gonna work sadly.This is the point. You are supposed to avoid the killer, not get caught with your pants down in the open and still get away because of a perk.
Yes, I'm aware, but if they're avoiding you into a jungle gym nothing has changed. If they continue to lose exhaustion during a chase and they're already running they'll get another sprint burst. So we're back to square one with a different way to use it.
They'll hear your heartbeat and instead of waiting, they'll run to prep SB and get even more distance.
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@Caretaker said:
@only1biggs said:
@Caretaker said:
They'll leave areas faster gain more distance, it's not gonna work sadly.This is the point. You are supposed to avoid the killer, not get caught with your pants down in the open and still get away because of a perk.
Yes, I'm aware, but if they're avoiding you into a jungle gym nothing has changed. If they continue to lose exhaustion during a chase and they're already running they'll get another sprint burst. So we're back to square one with a different way to use it.
They'll hear your heartbeat and instead of waiting, they'll run to prep SB and get even more distance.
Dude...you need to work on your chases apparently
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Imagine these 2 situations:
-you're the Wraith and find Meg in the open. She notices you right behind her but she just doesn't run. You know for sure she has SB ready, you pretend to uncloak and while she sprints away you close the distance with your increased speed. You reach her in a couple seconds, decloak and smack her.
-you're the Wraith and find Meg in the open. She notices you right behind her and starts to run away. You think you can land a hit. You close the bit of distance created because of the uncloak slow down and lunge at her, but she sprints away avoiding your hit. Now she is far away while you're recovering from the missed attack.Now you get why delaying the sprint activation would be a bad idea?
Given it's ease of use and its utility, I think SB should be weaker than Lithe and Balanced Landing, that require a trigger (not always in rage) and for the nature of such triggers the killer could still land a hit before the sprint. Imo it should have a lower duration or its speed should decay along its duration.
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I find this a hard one to find good solutions for, but indeed the SB activating after a couple of seconds while running could be convenient.
In terms of the stealth killers (Myers/pig/wraith) getting punished by the perk is indeed annoying, it's logical that a perk can counter an ability but SB is very common and you might get your ability countered by 4 survivors in one game. Maybe a 'stealth' fix to it is that SB only triggers in the terror radius, so when the wraith uncloaks you can hear him anyway and the terror radius could appear a couple of seconds after he's fully uncloaked (so that he can use his speed burst effectively), for the pig the terror radius appears after she's done with her Dash attack and for Myers.. well.. he can get a good hit or stalk a good amount of the survivor who can't run away so fast.
It is a big downgrade for the perk but survivors can cover a massive distance after they are hit and get their gameplan going from there, while the killer also made progress in hurting someone, preventing them (probably) from doing gens really fast once they escaped.0 -
@White_Owl said:
Imagine these 2 situations:
-you're the Wraith and find Meg in the open. She notices you right behind her but she just doesn't run. You know for sure she has SB ready, you pretend to uncloak and while she sprints away you close the distance with your increased speed. You reach her in a couple seconds, decloak and smack her.
-you're the Wraith and find Meg in the open. She notices you right behind her and starts to run away. You think you can land a hit. You close the bit of distance created because of the uncloak slow down and lunge at her, but she sprints away avoiding your hit. Now she is far away while you're recovering from the missed attack.Now you get why delaying the sprint activation would be a bad idea?
Given it's ease of use and its utility, I think SB should be weaker than Lithe and Balanced Landing, that require a trigger (not always in rage) and for the nature of such triggers the killer could still land a hit before the sprint. Imo it should have a lower duration or its speed should decay along its duration.
Well, based off the suggestions here, the uncloak in both your scenarios would be less than the time it takes for SB to activate...so, you'd be right up her B hole and can get a hit. With windstorm, you'd definitely get a hit, or, in both cases, you'd be way closer than if SB had zero delay.
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@only1biggs said:
Well, based off the suggestions here, the uncloak in both your scenarios would be less than the time it takes for SB to activate...so, you'd be right up her B hole and can get a hit. With windstorm, you'd definitely get a hit, or, in both cases, you'd be way closer than if SB had zero delay.You don't consider that while uncloaking you get slowed down, so you need a couple seconds (depending on how far from the survivor you are) to recover the distance lost. I agree that Windstorm could solve the problem, but do we really want to make the Wraith even more reliant on addons?
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@White_Owl said:
@only1biggs said:
Well, based off the suggestions here, the uncloak in both your scenarios would be less than the time it takes for SB to activate...so, you'd be right up her B hole and can get a hit. With windstorm, you'd definitely get a hit, or, in both cases, you'd be way closer than if SB had zero delay.You don't consider that while uncloaking you get slowed down, so you need a couple seconds (depending on how far from the survivor you are) to recover the distance lost. I agree that Windstorm could solve the problem, but do we really want to make the Wraith even more reliant on addons?
I did consider it and the Wraith is reliant on addons, there's no "more reliant".
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@only1biggs said:
I did consider it and the Wraith is reliant on addons, there's no "more reliant".
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@White_Owl said:
@only1biggs said:
I did consider it and the Wraith is reliant on addons, there's no "more reliant".
You misunderstand. I mean..the Wraith can't be more reliant on addons -.-
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