Make DS 2 time use without a skillcheck
Make it a real anti tunneling perk that ONLY does its job, but does it good.
you get tunneled after the first hook? no skill check needed, youre free
youre then getting tunneled after second hook? no skill check needed, youre free :)
You got off a hook, got healed and now sit on a gen and the killer downs you again?
NOPE no DS for you, because I. Didnt. tunnel. you.
Just make it deactivate on actions --> Healing, Totem cleansing, Gen repairing, vautling the same window for 3 times (because I already see the "HEY TUNNEL ME" survivors making noise until you wanna uninstall.
I dont get the problem with a rework like that.
People say "its against tunneling you cant nerf it"
then you adress problems and people say
"its not an anti tunnel perk!"
So what is it now? and why is it so strong?
I dont tunnel, I am MADE a tunneler by survivors who unhook a just hooked survivor while being injured and then complain I tunnel?
BUFF it so people are happy tunneling get super weak
NERF it so you cant abuse it anymore
Comments
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I agree.
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This sounds like the endgame Survivor perk to end all endgame Survivor perks.
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when you say healing do you mean healing yourself or others? or both?
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It would also make Borrowed Time irrelevant.
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dude i dont care anymore, just heal up for free XD I just dont want to get stunned after pulling someone off a gen.
no idea, but tbh if you CAN heal yourself you are not getting tunneled anymore dont you?
If you heal and get tunneled you should have watched out... But If thats what survivors want, just heal for free
But healing ohers should deactivate it for sure
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one perk to rule them all
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Well both combined would make tunneling even weaker.
So survivors could run both of these perks until no tunneling is existent anymore and then we would have more perk slots for fun perks :)
I just dont wanna get stunned anymore by suicidal survivors who have 10 seconds left on DS after healing, destroying my ruin and doing half a gen
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No tunneling, nothing more. If theres THE ONE perk against tunneling, i dont have a problem with that
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You've basically made it so any Survivor who makes it to the endgame and isn't on death hook is almost guaranteed an escape.
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Tunneling is the correct play, sometimes, particularly if a momentum swing is needed, you need to remove OoO from your game, etc.
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Why healing, doing totems, or making noise? Of course survivors might accidentally fast vault 3 times while being chased and then get tunneled. Getting healed right before getting tunneled is also very possible and survivors shouldn't be able to be tunneled just because they wanted an extra layer of protection against tunneling in the form of a health state. Doing totems is a secondary objective, it doesn't make much of a difference if they are allowed to have protection while doing it. DS should allow for as few tunneling scenarios as possible, so I believe it should only deactivate if the survivor gets on a gen or goes for an unhook. No other weird gimmicks, just straight up "if you're doing these things you better not be getting tunneled because this perk's going bye-bye".
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So is slugging. Therefore there are allowed to be perks to counter both.
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Just realize you just said that you don't tunnel but are instead made a tunneler lmao. How are you a tunneler without tunneling?
Also wanted to add that DS is not an anti-tunnel perk by design so don't get that stick up in there. That's not to say I'm against making it an anti-tunnel perk, but it is to say complaining about it being used outside of tunneling scenarios is not a valid line of complaint. If you think DS is too powerful, explain how it greatly surpasses the power of other survivor perks that are "meta" then we'll talk, petty complaints based on opinions are a tired subject tbh.
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My only real problem with ds (if not used for the uncounterable smol pp build) is in an endgame situation where it´s basically a guaranteed escape if you get unhooked. Bonus points for borrowed time.
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It doesn't need a timer either and how about borrowed just is an automatic effect on ds while we're at it just in case if they feel like tunneling again /s
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well openign an exit gate is an action isnt it?
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Okay I'm kind of spamming at this point, but no way 2 time use is ever gonna slide without DS deactivating in end game, which leans more towards not being an anti-tunnel perk. To change it to a true anti-tunnel perk it should only activate once and still be allowed in end game because the killer can still trade around it if they play smart. That being said, doing the exit gates could also deactivate DS and it would be mostly healthy.
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You wanted to add that its an anti tunnel perk... youre trolling? Or did you just not read? ######### these people here
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It's the killer's fault if they let someone get unhooked during end game. The killer just has to take the trade at that point, "oh no I actually had to work for my kill because the survivors tried!"
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Did you read my comment correctly? What are you saying? I said that DS is currently not an anti-tunnel perk by design so its use outside of tunneling scenarios is not a design flaw.
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You don't need to open the exit gate if someone else does it for you.
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Ds doesn't need a buff.
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It barely activates in my games. Surely it could use some changes.
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I don't know why you're tagging me to talk about slugging.
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Let me put it simply: Perks can counter things. Did you have trouble with that one?
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
its not about whether it activates or not.
its about having an Obsession and making the killer FEAR you MIGHT have it, so they play around it and dont tunnel.
you dont need to activate your DS to get a good usage of having the perk. its the psychological effect it has on the killer that makes it as powerful as it is.
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I asked why you brought up slugging when quoting my statement that was referring to tunneling.
You seem to be getting rather defensive over nothing.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Well I explained it now so I'm pretty sure I answered your question.
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Exactly. It doesn't activate most of the time, BECAUSE it's very strong and killers have to not tunnel
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Oh no killers aren't tunneling all the time anymore! Devs please save us from this torment!
Bruh ik tunneling is a legit strategy and all but people who hate tunneling is the exact reason why you will never like DS.
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This would make gameplay stale tbh... not to mention broken during ECG. This is basically saying NO killer can go back to the hook under any circumstance without getting stunned.
Sometimes going back to the hook is a necessary evil. The way DS works now is fair when you consider the counterplay and the way you can play around it when you encounter the person after you didn’t purposely tunnel.
Also, as it’s been said countless of times. DS isn’t strictly meant to be an anti tunnel perk, so by you defining it in that way you are acknowledging that you don’t really care for the gray areas in which DS shines in as well. It isn’t just useful for after unhook tunneling.
Killer could just wait until you do any action and get it deactivated until they decide to pursue.
Main reason I feel DS is fine now is because of the different outcomes. With too many restrictions you (again) have stale gameplay.
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Stale gameplay also comes from too strong of outcomes being purposefully sought after. Like when a survivor uses DS to hide in a locker next to a gen. If the killer leaves, the surv gets free gen time. If the killer opens locker, they get stunned. The mean of these outcomes is so high that survivors will replicate this scenario as often as possible, leading to stale gameplay.
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Right, but that would be a problem if there was a locker always available 24/7. Which there isn’t.
The locker play is only played when there is a locker available. It’s far more fun to pretend like you left and have the survivor come out and get downed than this proposed idea of “I can’t go back to the hook because there is no longer a timer and I’m going to get stunned no matter what if I chase that same survivor”.
This is why I have a big problem with most of the complaints about DS. They always bring up 2 things Lockers and 60 seconds. One isn’t around all the time in specific said area and the other is depleting and it hasn’t magically paused. Both of which ironically RARELY ever get played against me or killers I play against.
You could say the same about slugging being too strong. Something that isn’t even a perk itself, but a mechanic. Yet no one is asking for a nerf. Even tho there are literally builds that encourage it. Survivor gets slugged, that’s free pressure.
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Doing totems should absolutely disable it. Otherwise the survivor could go around cleansing your hexes/block your NOED while they have invincibility.
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Good point. I still think a couple extra restrictions would still leave a lot of variability.
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Lol, ds is op at its current state, you want to buff it *that* much? Lol.
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It's not invincibility, it's a second chance against an attempt to pick you up. You can still slug a survivor if you see them creeping on your totems, the same can't be said if the survivor gets near permanent progress in the form of gen or gate progress or an unhook. These 4 objectives all have similarities and differences, doing totems has too many differences to be classified as a main objective(so does healing).
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Then they can use Unbreakable or Soul Guard.
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Soul Guard encourages survivors to leave your totems up and UB is one time use. These perks, like DS, have restrictions that reduce the advantage survivors get from using them that all too often people ignore just to push their narrative. UB and DS do exactly what they say, and if you play into their advantage then don't be surprised if you get punished or if even more often the survivor is able to reduce the punishment they receive.
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Okay but if a survivor has this version of DS (and totems don't disable it) and Soul Guard you literally cannot stop them from breaking your hex without throwing the game.
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Sorry I don't follow...
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even if it should be disabled it should be only EVER trigger once, 4 chances, from just having this perk is overkill second chance perks don't need to give even more chances
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I'm trying to explain why doing totems should disable OP's version of DS. Say you have Devour Hope with let's say 3 stacks. The person with DS finds it. They start working on it. You stop them. You can't pick them up because they have DS and you "tunneled" them. They pick themselves back up with Soul Guard. They get back on it. You go back to them and down them. Eventually, another survivor might try to heal the slug and will also see the hex totem. The only real way to stop this is it sit by the hex and keep downing the DS guy, which will result in a loss because everyone else did gens.
Come to think of it, healing another survivor should definitely disable it as well so you don't have an invincible medic running around.
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Your problem is assuming DS makes you invincible. A temporary availability of a 5 second stun is not invincibility, and thinking it is can cause you to straight up lose games as killer. As killer, no matter what you think, you are in control and the survivors are at your mercy.
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I am down with this New DS. But i would say it is better that it only deactivates when touching a gen.
This way survivors are more motivated to do side objectives as totems. Just anything else then doing their objective.
However it should also deactivate when endgame collapse start. Because you cant be tunneled in that part of the game.
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Okay, assume you pick up someone with DS and the other 3 survivors are each on a generator. You are a 115% killer and the survivor runs in a straight line.
You are stunned for 5 seconds. The survivor gains 20m of distance. You begin chase, and take about 30 seconds to catch up. Downing them again and picking them back up takes about 5 more seconds. By then 3 survivors have completed half of their generators.
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DS only gives about 15m of distance because of the animation. 15÷.6=25 so yeah it's almost 25 seconds in a straight line. This is one time use and only in some situations. Most killers have powers which make the time even less. Is this invincibility?
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Wow 😳. Survivors just want the matches spoon fed to them.
While doing this rework they should rework NOED to instantly sacrifice all who worked on the final gen😃... Or change blood warden to speed up the end game collapse dramatically every time someone t bags at the exit... Just for anti toxic trolling.
See how strange it sounds when we ask for killer perks buffs on the same level of these ridiculous DS suggestions...
Devs, can we just put in a mode where a giant potato rolls around them map while survivors work on gens? Just make sure the potato still gets stunned by flashlights, lockers and pallets. You know, so it won't be boring for survivors.
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In my comments I'm asking for added restrictions to DS bro...just read please.
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