Dear BHVR, now more than ever survivors need a nerf.
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corrupt might lead to them spending the time finding your ruin totem much more often int he early game, I'll quickly scope some totems on that side of the map to get some points off of dull ones and hopefully break a hex and get some work done without being corralled onto the mid map gens or possibly being cut off going too soon to the other side of the map depending on how ######### it would be for hiding or getting around safely at that point in the game. To me, it's better than being the first guy seen and possibly caught, which would lead to a big chance of being tunneled from my more recent experiences. corrupt alone is fine, and I might combo it with tremors (and pop, since you can stall two gens periodically with those two together and find somebody that won't leave a gen with tremor and maybe find a good one to pop on), but I'm choosy what I use with it. Tremors is a good way to get amini corrupt on some gens mid game as well as finding one being worked on, it's long cooldown and short duration but great when you're having trouble finding people or stalling gen repairs. But maybe I'm just thinking that way because I don't have the fortitude to play killer often to not have to rely on those sort of crutches.
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- Equip DS, BT, UB and another second chance.
- Killer chases the unhooking survivor and your DS / BT / UB don't get used
- ?
- Profit
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If you face survivors who do gens, you're not gonna win with fairplay and alternating hooks.
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Don't think I've ever faced a team that just don't do gens, that's (at least from what I've heard) their objective.
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How is that an argument
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How is "If survivors just do gens they win" an arguement? If someone gets saved, and the killer is on the other side of the map chasing someone else, how does that unhooked survivors BT / DS / UB even matter?
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It matters, because the killer is not eliminating one survivor. As long as its 1vs4, the survivors will win. If it 1vs3, the killer will win unless 1 gen is left.
If you deny the option to kill someone, then the only option left is playing 1vs4. Which is an easy task
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What does that even mean? There are plenty of people that play without tunneling, no wonder you're so scared of it, you must see every DS activate every match, of course you would want it nerfed as it would heavily benefit your style of play, lmao.
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I dont tunnel. I rarely eat DS'es, but when i do, its from yolo unhooks, doing last gens, jumping into lockers etc. All the stuff that people complain about. Like i said, i dont like tunneling and i wish this game was fairer in a basekit. But DS is the wrong solution, it gets abused.
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The terrible idea works perfect on other games. I have mentioned before, I used to play several other games to a really competitive level. I am not suggesting things out of nowhere. People is not always looking forward to do harm, sure they'll be pricks. Pricks are all over the world and they come in colors and names for you to pick them.
I do stand for mmr, mmr will show how unbalanced some situations can get. Yet mmr is a tool for a competitive environment, regardless of your tier, you will be competing. There is people that just wants to have fun or troll or whatever- therefore casual lobby is not a bad idea. You can even get creative and tweak things to have different game modes to make it even more enjoyable.
I used to play Dota 2 at 7k mmr. I could have been professional if i wanted to. I still played casual games from time to time just to chill or have fun in a different manner than just competing. Variety is never a bad thing. Lack of variety it is
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That's why I woukdnr care if DS was deactivated on another hoom but even then it isnt that big of a deal. Also yes DH corrects mistakes i use sprint burst I'm good at looping so I mean. Also its jsut optimal use, you play as spirit and stand still you aent phasing kinda crutch that you are cheesing hits but to each their own.
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I hardly see such survivors. All I see are console survivors that die in killer shack.
Losing to one well oiled SWF doesn't mean survivors are too strong. It means you think you are too good to lose.
These devs have given every wallhack imaginable to killers, even killers with busted hitboxes for years with not even a hint to fixing them. Don't want to hear it.
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I cant speak for Dota 2 or CS:GO, dont and never have played those games, but I think they work in a similar way to LOL in this regard. And lol has mmr in Normals. It was based on how well you were doing in normals rather than in ranked but it was still there. The problem with trying to introduce a "casual mode" in this game is....the entire game is casual, the ranking system is a poor attempt at matchmaking and thats it.
For there to be a competitive, there would have to be something to strive for/try to achieve. In most of the games you talked about its the highest rank and the prestige people feel that comes with it. Or as you said the possiblity of going pro. In league there were skins, avatar icons and other such stuff, cosmetics in general (but it stopped at a rather low rank so it was easy to get for most people. And most players in Red ranks if not all people in red ranks will tell you that rank means nothing in DBD. Its not something to strive for, because its basically a guarantee if you have played the game enough to understand most of it and just play it enough to rise in rank more than the reset takes away.
Ontop of that, piping and black piping is easier to do than depiping, at least if you try to play. Does it still happen? Ofc but considering that you have 4 posibilities and only 1 takes away rank points. Yes I know 2 pipping is a lot harder so counting it as a "equal" possiblity with the rest isn't fair. But lets say you just got rank 10. How many games would you have to lose in a row to fall out of green ranks? Over 10 games without ever pipping or black pipping. Thats basically impossible if you are trying to win and got to green ranks by your own strength.
Now that was just a side rant. My point still stands tho that if they introduced a "casual" mode I cant imagine it ever ending up in any good way without them butchering the part of the game thats fun. Now im only guessing, so correct me if im wrong. The kind of casual you are talking about is without rankings, and possibly without mmr?
Now without the rankings what happens? Well nothing. As I said rank means nothing to most if not all red rankers. A lot if not most wanna be red ranks because they have a higher chance of getting better opponents there. Those are the competitives. But there are a lot, and I do mean a lot that dont care about the competitive aspect. They want to "bully" the opponent into submission. Either trying to make them angry. Making them rage quit. Or just "torture" them with whatever advantage they have. And these people aren't just in red ranks, when mmr went loco and matched me vs a lot of low rankers I noticed that these people, while really bad at it, were trying to do the same "tricks". And trying to get the same reaction.
Now whats stopping those last people from just going into casual and, occasionally getting good players but most of the time just getting people that wanna chill and have fun? I would say MMR, but then we are back to Ranks doesnt matter, its only for matchmaking, so whats wrong with the current game mode?
EDIT: Just checked, both CS:GO and Dota 2 use MMR in unranked as well. But im still willing to be convinced, what would you suggest "casual" do different.
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Fake phasing and getting a hit is something BHVR intended on her doing and is part of her kit, a lot of survivor deny that being a mindgame while it is a mindgame it's a gamble at the same time and the gamble is what is hated about Spirit!
Is it cheap! Yeah sure, but it's part of her kit and I only do this at safe loops if survivor's allow me to establish dominance of the pallet
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Yeah sure BHVR intended it but they dont understand their own game and how bad that is just like slinger zones by existing because his psychological effect survivors Is huge.
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- Doesn't justify the perk lasting for 60s
- Doesn't apply to the perk being active really
- Fair counterplay, but stacked with unbreakable still doesn't justify the perk being active for 60s
- irrelevant since I don't use mori's anymore
- Also irrelevant since skill checks are literally a base mechanic that can be mastered within 3 minutes of learning the game
And survivor's can choose weather they wanna use the remaining time of DS to be invincible on a gen! Ik I sound entitled af right now, but the reason why I believe the perk needs more of a severe risk is because how it can literally affect that course of the match!
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- Actually it does justify it, any shorter and it would 100% be done by the time the chase is over, you want to call it an anti-tunnel perk, right? If it doesn't last long enough for a tunneller to be wary of it then it isn't an anti-tunnel perk :)
- Then the point of no gens being done doesn't apply to pop goes the weasle being active :)
- If killers want to claim chases last too long, but also want to claim that they're always being hit with 60 seconds of ds then which is it? Killers love to make believe that everyone is being ran for 5 gens but think 60s, so you either want the perk to be useless because every chase is super long therefore it would be deactivated once the chase is over, or you admit that chases don't last nearly as long as most killers want to make out.
- Ahh yes, "this point doesn't matter because i don't use moris", yaaaa, tell that to the rest of the killers
- All your PGTW points are irrelevant because it literally ties into kicking generators which of course takes absolutely no amount of effort besides a button press, there are also perks that affect skill checks, there's nothing stopping a killer kicking a gen besides that cheryl perk which even PGTW has a longer timer than.
Killers can also choose to stop a chase to kick a gen etc etc, ds is fine and mostly avoidable, only change it needs is something in end game, 2x speed skill check sounds fun :)
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They hated him because he told the truth!
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I do not think the problem is that survivors perks are too powerful. I think its more that majority of the killer perks feel less impactful compared to the survivor perks, especially new ones that have possible cool effects but they get put down with too many restrictions. For example, Furtive Chase on paper looks like a cool concept perk where its obesssion perk that reduces your TR over time during the match, but the perk for some reason only reduces TR in a chase and loses all its tokens when Obsession dies. So many perks have cool ideas behind them but they are not worth using which leads to a very stale narrow selection of perks creating stale gameplay that have guaranteed effects for guaranteed impact. Its super anti-fun for killer to have a dead perk slot as it makes you feel like your always on back foot from the passive nature of the survivor perks. The game in the past was different back then because less players were good at the game, so the power in the past is less relative than power in the present. I feel like killers in the past relied a bit less on perks than in the present simply because opposition was worse. Maybe that is good thing, maybe it is a bad thing. Who knows I guess.
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how to kill your game 101 <--------- this post
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Tbf if Furtive chase reduced your terror radius by that much outside chase, you could stack it with MnA and have 8 meter terror radius. So at the very least if it can reduce it by that much it should disappear if the obssession dies. But yeah that perk needs some love/changes.
And I do agree that some perks have a few too many restrictions(some restrictions are fine), but Im fairly certain that both killers and survivors were worse in the past. And they both learned tricks to counter playstyles or specific killers. Like looping, when survivors found out you could play a pallet for longer than one loop killers had to learn to "mind game" instead of mindlessly chasing survivors. Sure that one probably didnt take years to get around to. But I guarantee you most didn't do this back then. Why am I so certain? Because a lot still dont do it now.
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well juts killer perk feel weaker then most of the survivor perk in the game funny both side got a lot of useless ones.
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yes but that would be cool. Unless you enjoy only going against the usual bbq/pop/Corrupt/Stbfl or other consistent perks. The thing with survivor is that survivor perks are so strong that even if you do not equip them, the killer often still respects them, for example they'll still slug you on the floor after unhook even if you do not have DS or they will still hit unhooker even if there is no borrow time and in this sense, it allows survivor to have perk diversity at the cost of risk. no such thing really exists for killer. Peanut is right though, killers over complain about survivor perks when they aren't in play most of the time. In some sense, they do a good job at discouraged disliked gameplay from the survivor side but it does make a bit of killer side more stressful. Its give and take.
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I'm surprised so few people have bought up how most of the major imbalances (outside of certiain perk combos) come from map design. Most people are on about perk combos.
Jungle gyms spawning with a vault facing jungle gym facing the shack on one side and a Loop on another. The biggest time wasters are pallets and vaults that connect to well.
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It would be cool, but im just mostly worried if it woulld be too powerful. Technically being a permanent stealth killer seems insanely strong even if it requires 2 perks. It could be that its fair because you have to work for it, but I would say that it should probably have some sort of counter/weakness. Like Devour hope(cleanse totem)/STBFL(Obssession)
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Don't forget Insta-Gen BNP's (I don't even mean the older BNPs where you got skillchecks over and over again and the generator was rapidly completed, but the original ones where you'd press space and the gen went from 0 to done instantly. This was changed to the rapid skillcheck system when Mori's were nerfed so you couldn't kill people on their first down) and the hatch ALWAYS spawning closed at 5 gens left IIRC (Meaning someone with a key could escape out the hatch before a single gen was popped or anyone was even killed).
EDIT: Oh yeah, and when Sabo'd hooks stayed broken FOREVER meaning people could literally destroy all the hooks on the map besides the basement.
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you need to hook obsession, that itself is luck based. Technically you can use Nemesis to lower luck component but now its 3 perks. Very old perks don't even require any perk synergy. STBFL is classic obesssion example. Its good single perk slot with no real requirements and limited drawback. Old survivor perks work like that as well. new survivor perks have similar problems too restrictive. I think it would be a fine perk but who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
Lol. Well said. It's also true that survivors can stack offerings and force you to ######### maps, have a million chests, or make hooks practically impossible to use, which is something I never see mentioned (it is the lesser of the issues but still a problem).
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However much like anything in this game, its justifiable use of a perk slot. If a survivor is using DS then he's not using other perks that could be useful to him. You usually find players run a balanced set of meta perks, a speed perk, a second chance perk etc. Rarely done ever see someone using all second chance perks, that is cheap but then so is using iri hatchets so I dont know what else you want to be said lol.. if theyre running all second chance perks then theyre sacrificing sneaking, gens, scratch marks, and other things.
The key thing here that fungoose and true talent and top guys like this say is "if youre spending too long chasing one survivor, you've ######### up." Or my other favourite is "if youre chasing someone who is good at looping, go for the weaker survivors." Tactically take out the weaker first and if one gets away then they get away. If you have to eat a DS then you have to eat it my friend and you have to realise when a survivor is deliberately trying to run you. Punish them later after you've got their friends out of the way.. I never see these guys struggle to not get 4ks usually and true will tunnel a survivor if he gets the chance but its not his go to play and he will happily eat a DS to get it over and done with early, ive seen him do it many times on stream.
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Hey man I dont know. Im just spitballing. Either way I dont think it would be "OP" because you are using 2 perks. But on the other hand I wouldn't wanna end up with permanent "stealth" tier 3 myers just as an example. So it would require testing.
Honestly BHVR should just start testing small/big changes to perks in each mid chapter when we aren't waiting for a new killer. Just change something like 4 survivor and 4 killer perks on the ptb each mid chapter and let people test them out. If they dont do enough or turn out to be way too strong just dont enable that part of the patch.
But thats just a pipe dream. It would be nice to see some potential big changes starting to appear (granted within the last years time there have probably been more changes than there has ever been combined to the base game/system at least.
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It's barely been different for me, it's still the same sweaty high rank teams you'd face on console.
They jukes were a bit different, but they're always so easy to deal with once you just predict them.
If you're really doing that bad every game, it might just be you.
Or, you're making this all up to try and use crossplay to persuade the devs into survivor nerfs.
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Nah I'm not trying to trick the devs into nerfing survs, I was just real salty after that game that I lost because of a SWF. I post some really controversial things when I'm salty.
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Really, don't have anything better to do?
How many DS do you see normally? At least half of my matches don't have obsession or DS is not chosen.
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I played killer for about 5 months and I only have been DS like 4 times. It's really easy to avoid and sometimes a wasted perk slot. It seems you are the one who doesn't have enough experience.
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If they're like me you ask which around 70% say they are 2 man, 3 man in most instances
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The solution in reality is simply, in code however probably not so simple. Nerf SWF & buff Solo
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Are you sure about that? I've been playing DBD for almost 3yrs now and with the current DS I only get hit with it when
- I intentionally tunnel (Something I can't even complain about because I deserved to get hit with DS)
- Survivor's go out of their way to annoy and harass the killer just to use DS and if they fail to do so the DC
- I could literally hook 2 other survivor's and still get punished with DS for "Playing my cards right"
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Good bait..
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I don't play with obsession perks, so it's easy for me to know if a survivor is carrying DS, and instead of tunneling right of the hook if I'm near, I down the DS user and proceed to chase the rescuer (not counting on BT cause wasn't mentioned), and if they're far, I'm pretty sure I would be in a chase by then. And you don't get 'punished', cause DS doesn't punish tunnelers, just save from being in the hook too often. Most killers tunnel and destroy teams when they realize there's no obsession. Maybe that's where " dS ToO Op anTItuNnel Perk"
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Survivors need more objectives ... Not only repair ... It's so so boring repair gens
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Asking for survivor nerfs, like, really?
All that the survivor side needs is an extra objective to have more diverse things to do, not a nerf overall.
Since the crossplay kicked in I've had the easiest matches as killer ever, so I don't know but this sounds like you're just bad at the game.
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Random toilet thought: what if OoO nagated all other aura reading? Like, you run OoO you can only see the killer when you proc it. No stacking with bond, no empathy, no maps, etc. And none of the default aura reading.
Wouldn't necessarily stop SWFs, but it would take some of the shine off so you might see it less in general.
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I would just nerf DS and OoO. It would make killer games much less stressfull. For OoO complete rework and only change DS needs is that it de-activates if you go touch a generator.
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o.o ive been winning every game confusing
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what killer do you play maybe try an easier one maybe doctor or something
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Thags all rng it would be extremely hard ot code it so they dont face eachother especially on this spaghetti code they got.
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ds doesn't need nerfing tunneling is apparent in a lot of killers but as i've been playing killer i haven't seen many ds at all. If anything ds should be activated if a killer is tunneling you but still work tho.
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The new hit detection universally favors survivors as well
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You aren't being tunneled if you can repair generators. It's very obvious. The reason survivors are against my change because they want the free 60 second immunity to do what ever they like.
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