Dear BHVR, now more than ever survivors need a nerf.
Comments
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Well over the years dbd has always had high and low player counts.
If you look they typically happen around feb/March, summer and around fall time. Then you take into account events, free weekends and dlc releases which increase the playerbase for a while.
Overall though the playerbase has stabilized over 35k which is a far cry from 3 years ago when that was 8-12k.
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They don't need a debuff. Destroying randomness too easy, I like the challenge of going after swat teams. You're just not good.
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More likely make surv experienced more balanced.Dont firget tgat the power role is the killer and definetely killers are more stressed than survs
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Not really but have no sense I hook your friend and even so I get stunned or you unhook your friends in kilker face becuz you have still ds active.
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If they get angry go cry to a corner it cant be a bully simulator neither for survs nor killers I would like DS and BT to be reworked with anticamping and anitunnel system in game already
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What do you mean? The only side to get worse is killers. Survivors have only gotten a better and better experience.
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Peanits is a rank 1 huntress main but go off sis x
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While I think a super strong 4-man SWF with comms is virtually unbeatable unless you know what they are ahead of time and choose the appropriate killer and loadout specifically to sweat as hard as possible to beat them, I actually think only a small number of survivor-sided things are too strong, I think for the average player and the average solo queue, things are mostly okay-ish.
That said, if anything, the evidence of all that stuff being so wildly unbalanced over and over and over again in the survivor's favor does raise an eyebrow or two. Things being stronger previously is not evidence of those things being balanced currently.
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"Things being stronger previously is not evidence of those things being balanced currently."
According to who?
There are killers who didn't have a problem with certain things pre-nerf and post-nerf. I think putting out statements like "Now more than ever..." doesn't really help your case when you want people to understand how unbalanced some things can be. When those of us who have been here long enough know how 'bad' things were in comparison.
So they stopped bringing the groceries in and started cooking for you instead, but now you want them to spoon feed you too? As in, maybe the survivors should just all 4 start on a hook at the beginning of a trial and then attempt the 4% before they can start working on a gen. Maybe that is the balance that you seek.
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What do you mean according to who? Read what you quoted, out loud. And then say "according to who?" It makes no sense. It is a self-evident statement. Something being unbalanced and then changed does not guarantee that the item in question is now balanced. If I have a 400 kg rock and you have a 300 kg rock, and I shave 5 kg off my rock 10 times, I cannot then point to my 350 kg rock and say "you know this is balanced, I made my rock lighter over TEN TIMES, what, do you want me to come sit on your rock as well?" because that's silly. Previous nerfs are irrelevant to the discussion of the current game and are a red herring at best to deter actual balance discussion.
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what do you mean turning it off doesnt work? I turn it off every time I switch to killer mode with no prob.
btw, the reason I turn it off is because hits have terrible lag on PS4 if you allow cross play. I watch my weapon go straight through them and they just keep running, no injury. good luck fixing queue times with that BS lol
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Yeah it is what I asked. Since you are so hung up on "evidence" what evidence do you have that things that were previously nerfed before, are still unbalanced? Inquiring minds want to know.
I don't think you understand how balance works. The point of nerfing things is to still keep some of it's strengths. Previous nerfs ARE relevant when the OP posts things such as "Now more than ever..." So you mean to tell me now is less balanced than before? Ok. lol
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You have once again ignored what I said. I never said that anything in particular was too strong except a really good 4-man SWF. I have made no claims to the strengths or weaknesses of any given perks. My only point is that something being nerfed, even multiple times, does not mean it's balanced or no longer overly powerful.
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The playerbase has not stabilized, past 30 days has a ~2500 player decrease. DBD got about 15000 players during covid. These players are still in the phase where they're not experiencing DBD as it truly is. I'll explain to you what player retention is and how certain game companies (that usually don't last very long) market their games around low skilled play. The game is meant to be very shiny when you first get it, lots of licensed killers and survivors. The way DBD is marketed is that you're supposed to buy the base game, probably for $10 on sale, then buy a couple dlcs and maybe a couple cosmetics before you quit.
Huntress is the strongest killer in the game, barring a couple maps, and is incredibly oppressive at higher levels. Peanits doesn't need to loop survivors and he even has enough power to partially negate windows. So him being a Huntress main actually takes away his experience on balance issues in this game. I'm one of the top Deathslinger players in the world, based on speared downs, and I play a lot of Huntress also, whenever I don't balance my ranged killer play with normal killers, I become very bad at the game, and very bad at judging how much time I have to catch up to to a survivor before they make it to a strong tile. Having to actually put dead hard and sprint burst into chase calculations makes the regular killers much harder to play. Also being a killer main, and only a community manager, I doubt much of his input on killer balance is listened to by the people that are balancing the game.
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"Huntress is the strongest killer in the game barring a couple maps"
Okay ngl I stopped reading right here because of how wrong this statement is.
Huntress is not the strongest killer in the game.
Nurse exists. Hag exists. Billy exists. Freddy exists. Spirit exists. Arguably Oni exists.
There is no way huntress is the strongest killer in the game, even on maps like Blood Lodge because Nurse and Spriitt are still better and yet are 80x more consistent on every other map and when they spawn indoors don't instantly immediately ######### die.
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Huntress is the strongest killer in the same way that Nurse is one of the strongest killer. Huntress can negate most loops in the game, Huntress can also zone players. Huntress is entirely consistent at higher levels of play. Hag is limited by the range of her traps, Billy still needs to loop survivors, Freddy still needs to loop survivors, Spirit still needs to loop survivors, Oni still needs to loop survivors.
With Huntress, all you do is wind up your hatchet to zone the survivor and keep them from running to stronger tiles, then you take it down and move into the weaker area you just zoned them into. Deathslinger can also do this. Killers that negate the geometry of the game are the strongest killers, despite their mobility. It's probably best that you base your opinions on actually playing and playing against killers, rather than rely on what other people have to say.
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Oh damn we got a lot to unpack here lol.
The difference between Huntress, and Nurse and Sprirt, is that Nurse and Spirit can travel around the map quickly. They're both even more oppressive in a chase, and with spirit you sometimes don't even need to do anything to win because standing still is fun (but that's an argument for another day).
Hag being limited by the range of her traps doesn't change the fact that a good hag will end chases in literal seconds.
Freddy's ability to end chases quickly, combined with built-in game stall and massive map mobility means that any gen setup can be a 3 gen for him, and his chases still end incredibly quickly.
Billy's need to be looped is made up for with the fact he can insta-down out of position survivors and that he still shuts down loops quickly through curving. Add into the fact he has the fastest movement speed in the game (with The Blight actually equalling that speed but incredibly limited with how he can use it) for, you guessed it, map pressure.
Deathslingers can be rushed into oblivion because their power is very strong (and fun amiright) in a 1v1 and yet their map pressure is non-existent.
Oni is better than Huntress because once he has his power he snowballs faster than you can say "crap" and usually getting a single m1 isn't too difficult because someone will always be out of position unless they all have object.
Thinking that with huntress, all you need to do is wind, is wrong. You need to wind, predict, aim, and know how hatchets both arc and how they collide. Additionally you move slower while winding so survivors make so much distance by just running and looking to see when you throw. Not to mention the very loud audio queues and obvious vidual queues she's going to yeet.
"Killers that negate the geometry of the game are the strongest killers, despite their mobility"
So then tell me why Pyramid Head isn't considered strongest despite his ability to ignore everything survivors can do, hit through walls, and negate pallet and flashlight saves?
"It's probably best that you base your opinions on actually playing and playing against killers, rather than rely on what other people have to say."
Oh honey. Oh honey no. Oh honey please tell me you didn't just go there. Oh honey oh no oh no oh no.
I have over 1,800 hours in the game, split equally between survivor and killer. I started playing in November 2017. I only have so few because I'm still in the education system so can't play this game 24/7. For the last year I've been playing enough to get rank 1 consistently since about a week into the season and stay in ranks 1-2 for the rest of the time. For about 2 years I'd be a survivor main (though honestly I'd never use ds because I hated facing it) and now I'm a killer main because solo survivor is literal ######### torture.
So please, don't assume that I don't play the game. Thank you for your time,
Check yourself before you wreck yourself,
Sincerely a rank 1 Freddy, Pyramid Head, and Wraith main
Xoxo
(oh btw if you need some proof that I play just ask, got some people on here who've seen me go :3)
Ps: Huntress still needs to loop survivors x
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Have you considered that Survivors are just better then Killers because they have better perks, maps are more sided towards them, amnd the pace of the game is decided by the Survivors and not the Killers, taking the power role away from the singular its supposed to belong to?
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Yes, Huntress requires aim and thought put into her. When taken to high levels, she is completely oppressive. Yes I know that you are not a Huntress main. When I mention that a killer can be looped, I mean that they are required to break safe pallets.
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Imagine thinking huntress doesn't need to break safe pallets.
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Right now the player number on steam alone at this moment is at 53k.
Regardless of covid which of course help the game has been growing over the years as you can see. The players numbers rise with dips of course which I explained in my first post.
Player retention is about keeping older players in game along with bringing in new players. For a 4 year old game with such basic gameplay the fact players stay around as long as they shows they are obviously doing something right.
Most online games the player numbers drop off without constant content being added in some form of another.
I understand you may not like the game in its current state but the players numbers show many do. Always remember forum users are a minute fraction of players compared to how many log in each day and most are normally there to complain about something.
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Magic trick time, go into settings, turn off crossplay
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Nah buff solo survivors and then buff the killer experience as well. Unless you find a way to nerf SWF that doesnt impact any solo survivors they may meet then you are never gonna be able to nerf SWF in a good way.
So my suggestion is buffing the solo survivor experience anyway possible. Like potentially giving solo survivors 1 additional perk slot exlusively for information perks. Almost all information perks are mediocre at best for SWF anyway but a few like OoO are actually made better by being in a SWF. And if you cant give exclusive perk slots, then just give all survivors something akin to kindred. Thats a buff that almost 100% exclusively is gonna buff solo survivors. Now you can buff the weaker killers up a notch, or just tune some of the tougher things for killers in general, hopefully in a way that doesnt impact the best killers in any major way(which is why I went for individual buffs rather than role buffs).
TL;DR survivors are mostly fine its usually weaker killers and solo survivors that need a helping hand more than SWF survivors needing a nerf.
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Disagree. Since crossplay it has become my go to perk or else I'm forever being tunneled out of the game early. Its fine the way it is.
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Yes, and after a while I realized that is incorrect. Maps can be bad towards both sides, and some even got recently reworked to be more balanced, there are barely any god loops left in the game if you haven't noticed. Again, this game has no power role and it should not have a power role, saying that killers should be able to stomp survivors because they are the "power role" is a ######### argument. If you want to play a game with an almost unstoppable power role play F13.
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So why is it ok for you to be invulnerable for 60s when you've
Been healed to the healthy state?
Able to touch a gen?
If your able to do 1 of 2 or both of these things, than the perk doesn't need to last 60 seconds because it's obvious your not being and that the killer is pressuring someone else.
While DS isnt a so called anti-tunneling perk (yet it activates and it's counterplay is anti-tunneling) is it still ok to be invulnerable for 60s with NO DOWNSIDE OR RISK?
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I am very rarely healed to a healthy state by my fellow survivors. Most of the games I've had today is being farmed off the hook by idiots and bigger idiots trying to put me straight back on. Your comments may be an issue in swf but I play solo and its saved my ass a few times from other players stupid mistakes or tunnel visioned killers. Dont try and put me straight back on the hook and give me a chance to play the game and it won't happen to you. Simple as that.
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- The only people to consider the perk an anti-tunnel perk is the playerbase, the devs have only ever once referred to it as an anti-tunnel perk when they wrote up about the change to it, it was only referred to as such BECAUSE the player base uses that term so frequently.
- Being healed does not mean you aren't being tunneled, there are multiple things that can speed up a heal and sometimes, if you know the killer is tunneling and you have the necessary tools to heal someone -hopefully- quick enough it can be the right choice to heal, stealth killers also don't alert the survivors of their presence so you can sometimes start a heal without even knowing the killer is there
- The same goes for generators, I get unhooked, run to the closest gen, killer / stealth killer are immediately coming back to the hook, find you on a gen, despite other survivors blocking for you they still go after you = still tunneling.
And there are downsides to DS, it's a perk with requirements to activate, you can only use it once, you can MISS using it, and you can just be slugged, which a lot of killers do just because there's an obsession in the game.
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Do you value the opinions of people who literally play this game as a full time job?
^ Fungoose, 8,000+ hours in game, plays both sides at rank 1. Someone asked him "What's the biggest problem in DBD?" in a live stream.
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Yeah, your too 1v1 focused and not 4v1 focused, shouldn't have even replied to you!
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That’s mostly all BS. I do most everything you stated and I ALWAYS am in solo. I take hits for WGLF stacks. I will purposely not stack on gens to apply pressure elsewhere. And how in the hell you can tell a swf by perks well that ones above me unless it’s a all sabo meme squad. The only sure fire way is to look at their friends list. All the rest of the stuff you listed is regular high level gameplay.
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Oh dear your opinion differs to mine, I only want to talk to people who have the same opinion as me!
A lot of perks have the ability to be abused, im sure some do abuse this perk but for me right now it stops me depipping to toxic killers. I have literally jumped on a gen a handful of times to force a grab over a slug to maximise its use, which is fair game. Either go for someone else, or eat the DS and get it over and done with.
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1. Actions speak louder than words. 'Most' players use DS for anti tunneling, with all do respect towards you idgaf what BHVR says about DS simply because the community has a better understanding of the game than BHVR does.
2-3. Still not a valid or balanced reasoning on why the perk should last 60 seconds.
So for the perk to become active killer has to do their job, downside is that it's a 1 time use perk. Here's the important question. Where's the risk? Thats why I'm saying healing and touching a gen should deactive the perk regardless of the killer. 'YOU' were confident and sure that 'YOU' weren't being tunneled so 'YOU' put 'YOURSELF' back in the game
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I think we should remove survivors from the game.
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The perk being super effective against tunneling killers, I agree! But I'm a firm believer that touching a gen or being healed should deactive the perk for the sake of balance and adding risk to the perk.
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Yeah another killer main who forgets the 1v1 is the most fun part of the game.
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If you were to straighten it out this way you'd just have more survivors hanging around lockers. The way I see it is this, im not great at looping. I am OK at it but most of the time I screw it up playing on controller. 9 times out of 10 if a killer is going to tunnel me theyre going to get it. There is a risk on my part of not hitting the smaller than usual skill check and occasionally with frame rate drops and fat fingers i miss that too and im screwed. Its not perfect but its all I have as an average player. Like anything it comes with a strategy and a skill gap and its rhose players who you are likely having difficulty with from what you've said. Just my 2 cents though.
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I would rather it be that way simply because, the survivor can either wait 60s to see if the killer is going to tunnel them (or do whatever isn't gen based) and give the killer more pressure, or they can risk possibly being tunneled and get gens done.
I don't run DS as a survivor because I don't like dealing with the perk as a killer. While I am trying to improve my looping gameplay, I won't use any second chance perks because I'm against the meta (that's just how I am in any game)
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Wraith main, my man. I too main him. I’ve been running a gen slowdown build on him lately and has been working out quite well actually. BBQ, PGTW, ruin and discordance. I might switch out something for corrupt occasionally also. I know it’s not a conventional build for wraith but hey I’ve been enjoying it. Slap on some windstorm addons to go vrooomm.
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It depends on your experience. From a survivors experience right now I have zero choice but to run it or be depipped back to the stone age because it picks up my gameplay where I am lacking as a player. If it changed to not being allowed to touch a gen then so be it, as I rarely get a chance to do that anyway.
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Its actually quite simple why 2 modes will only make things MUCH worse.
- The queue time will wastly increase until all/most are just playing in one mode to reduce queue time.
- The ranking system is mostly only there to try and put people vs people that they have a chance against
- There are a lot of "casual" players that absolutely slaughter survivors and run the killers forever. Saw a Hag player that was angry during the mmr system he was getting placed against red ranks while he was rank 13. Then showed images of his games to prove it.....where he killed almost everyone...only proving the mmr system was kind of working.
- And finally the biggest reason why this is a terrible idea. If there is a competitive mode and a casual mode without any matchmaking (otherwise what is the casual part?)....who do you think is gonna go into the casual mode? People that want chill games? Sure. But also people that just wanna slaughter/bully/easy games. The people that will play casual will be casuals...and people that the casuals wanted away from.
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Yet another survivor not seeing that survivor's staying on their feet for a long time because of second chance perks no matter how well the killer plays their cards, is unfair and unbalanced
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"Actions speak louder than words" lmao what? They designed the perk, no matter what the community calls the perk it's BHVRs right to state what it is, not the players, you can call it what you want but it doesn't mean it's right.
You can slug & chase other survivors during this 60 seconds, I very rarely get hit with a DS unless I KNOW I'm going to get hit by it, I ignore survivors who are unhooked constantly, sorry that you struggle to keep track of survivors you have hooked and been unhooked.
What do you mean "Where's the risk?" Wheres the risk to using PGTW, where's the risk to enduring, where's the risk to many perks? The risk if you get slugged or you never get to use the perk at all, or you miss the perk, or you never get saved, but sure, let's nerf the super easy to avoid perk, the only instance this perk needs changing is end game, and even then I wouldn't say that's warranted due to how easy it is to kill survivors during the match.
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You can call us second chance but I wont atop running it until killers stop tunneling. And besides the only true second chance I see when looping is dead hard but even then it hardly works.
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It's not even fun to play survivor anymore. Most of the games is too easy. If they can't buff killers then survivors will quit because people will get tired of the game.
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PGTW Risk
- All gens are regressing or have no progression
- You don't even get to hook a survivor because the survivor's were doing good in their chases and did gens
- The killer you're playing isn't mobile/agile enough
- After hooking a survivor you immediately get into another chase
As I said to the other person, your looking at the 1v1 and not the 4v1
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And what about killer's like me that literally try to play fair but get punished by the perk for playing fair? Imo DH is a crutch and a perk that literally tells killer's '######### you for playing your cards' even before the perk wasn't working it was a crutch
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not self-healing, and not even when being healed by another survivor who isn't using perks or a medkit to buff their own speed healing others either. if you hit the current speed of healing others, you'll just face more flashlights forcing you to waste a valuable perk slot on lightborn or have a Really bad time, or more survivors will start running iron will+resilience and then once too many are doing that even solos are gonna give you a lot of really bad days since they'll all have buffed gen times plus vault speeds. We have akilelr shortage already, it doesn't need to become worse. Some survivor nerfs will simply lead to them capitalizing on other strengths for even more annoying gameplay. And you can't nerf everything, there would be no point in playing. So soon after crossplay, we need a couple even afew months to see how things look once they fix the mmr before they begin to carefully consider any further nerfs and even buffs.
Not to mention, you should also the clown's fear perk (forget the name since I usually only see afk macro killers using it to probably assure they get more bp or xp time themselves through stalling while we farm off of them), nurse's calling, thano, sloppy and probably others I'm not thinking of. You probably haven't looked too hard into what you could do about it if the obvious and more popular perks haven't crossed your mind. sloppy is pretty powerful on some killers because of the enormous stall it leads to or the hefty punishments when you ignore it. Try combining sloppy with freddy or spirit, that might work well for at least one of them. I haven't tried that combo (think unluckily I got it on neither) nor either killer even more than a few times myself yet, but it could end up being a good combo on them.
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DS Risks
You don't get tunneled
The other players get chased the entire game so you never get hooked
You get slugged for the timer
You get moried
You miss the skill check
If you're a killer that never gets to activate pop then you're simply not a good killer, someone with DS doesn't determine when it goes off because the killer can simply ignore it, the killer gets to CHOOSE for an entire minute when to knock 25% off a generator that's being worked on.
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- Equip DS, BT, UB and another second chance.
- Get tunneled and use those perks to genrush OR
- Dont get tunneled and genrush anyway
- ?
- Profit.
I dont like tunneling, but second chances have waaay too much impact when going off. If killers had 4 Corrupt interventions to equip from, we would see similar complaints. If survivors cant work on gens due to using 4 perks, it would be really easy playing killer at high ranks.
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