An invitation to talk about Legion and how to fix them - Brainstorming

Trwth

Introduction

I'll just tell you what you already know: Legion is busted.

Since their release back in 2019, they've always held a peculiar spot in the world of DbD. They went through several changes that landed them right where they are today with a mundane, largely ineffective power that feels almost incomplete.

As the game grows more mature, eventually Legion is gonna need another rework, and it seems to me that even the devs are just as flabbergasted as we are on how to fix them. So, I invite you, the reader, to a discussion on creating a new Feral Frenzy that feels more lively both for the user and the unfortunate soul on the other end of the knife...

First, let's go over some key issues with the power.

1: Chain Attack, then what...?

The idea of chain attacking Survivors is super snazzy if I'm not gonna lie. However, in practice, it has shown to be pretty dull for both the Killer and the Survivors.

As Killer, Feral Frenzy feels great when you're attacking, but once you've reached the end and there's no one left to stab, you have to... run in front of the guy you're chasing and... manually cancel your ability and... stun yourself before you can attack...? But if you hit someone who's already wounded, the attack does absolutely nothing but give them a free speed boost while you stand there awkwardly dealing with your hefty four second stun. Oh, and your power gauge is completely depleted by the way.

And there's more. After you've injured literally everyone in the trial, your frenzy is utterly useless except for adding insult to injury for those poor Survivors who've been mending more often than they've been moving. In chase, you have no power and are an "M1 Killer." You have to rely on just your wits, and Bloodlust, to get downs in this state, and there's nothing you can do about it, especially against good loopers.

2: The Mending Experience

From the Survivor's perspective, it'll be hard not to enter a match without at least one person groaning, "Ugh, a Legion..."

A lot of the time, Feral Frenzy doesn't scare me at all. In fact, it's more of a nuisance, and I dread the mending I have to do more than actually getting attacked by an angry teen with a hunting knife. And the reason why is because I don't get attacked. I just get bopped on the forehead and, oop, there he/she goes again! Dashing into the sunset, knife in hand, ready to stab stab stab away at my teammates while I stand dumbfounded exactly where I got hit, freaking mending - and I'm not gonna bother healing because they'll be back in a jiff anyway and do it all again.

^ See this? This is what we want to avoid with Feral Frenzy. We should make hits punishing and capable of stalling the game, but the formula should never be "hit and run across the world." The Legion should remain a persistent threat even after getting hit with frenzy, and that threat should be the threat of being downed, not mending.

3: Power availability and counterplay

This is a Killer thread, but it's important to look at the situation from the Survivor's perspective as well when it comes to balancing.

By far, the most annoying bit about Legion actually isn't the mending when you're hit. It's because you can't avoid it. As a Survivor, Legion moves 30% faster than you, and can vault both windows and pallets like Survivors can. In other words, you can't outrun, outloop, or outplay the Legion by any means, excluding clutch 360s or locker dodges that you pull off once in a blue moon on a dark map as a Blendette. This in mind incentives Survivors to just... not care for frenzy at all. Just take the hit, they run off, sucks to suck, spend the rest of the match injured.

Even if you do manage to survive a frenzy, all the Legion has to do is wait approximately 20 seconds for their power to return and hit you anyway.

This is unacceptable. As a Survivor, you should never feel hopeless against any Killer in normal chase. There simply must be a way to survive a Feral Frenzy without exploiting specific game mechanics that only a small percentage of players can consistently pull off. It shouldn't be easy to avoid - after all, the Killer should be rewarded for using their power effectively - but it also shouldn't feel like a situation where the only outcome will be with you kneeling in a pool of blood mending for the fortieth time that match.

Interlude

Great, you made it through the wall of text. I admire your tenacity and interest in the conversation and hope you read on. Now that we've gone past what we don't want to see, let's move onto what our expectations.

1: Chain attacking

Legion's unique quirk is their ability to apply widespread pressure with ease. I assume the vision for the devs when they came out with Legion is a Killer going on a complete rampage, stabbing everything and everyone within reach. This we should keep, but the power needs to be contained.

By contain, I mean that the frenzy should be situated in a specific area to veer away from instances where Legion starts chasing a distant target all the way across the map after hitting only one person. This would mean that the frenzy is used in very specific scenarios where the Survivors are close together and able to be hit them consecutively within a short period of time.

Deep Wounds should stay, but the FF add-ons should not be designed around mending. As a part of Legion's power, Deep Wound is meant to stall Survivors until Legion has finished frenzying so that they can initiate an actual chase, which brings me to the next topic...

2: Out of Frenzy

A piece of Legion's power that is certainly missing is his chasing potential. For a Killer with the likeness of a Survivor, this should be incorporated into their power to help with their chasing. My personal suggestion is to allow them to fast/medium vault exactly how Survivors do (but not on pallets, exclusive to frenzy). Being able to vault windows fast lets the Killer quickly close distance between them and the Survivor. However, that proposed change also has a counterargument.

Not only is that ineffective against pallet loops, but it also reduces to counterplay to Legion to pallets exclusively, which isn't the direction we want to go in. Window teching Legions is too prominent as it stands currently.

Legion may not be able to throw hatchets or send waves of torment through walls, but the point is that Legion needs a secondary power to increase their chasing effectiveness.

3: Power Restriction

Nobody likes to be restricted by their power, as most people seem to agree following the past reworks we've had. We should avoid putting cooldowns on Killers, period, and Legion is no exception. As I've explained above, Legion is riddled with cooldowns, mostly because his power has some missing pieces. Everything should do something.

You shouldn't be punished for hitting a Survivor whose already wounded. You shouldn't lose your entire power gauge for missing. And you most definitely shouldn't be punished for using your power on one Survivor while no one else is within range. These are all parts of Feral Frenzy that have missing pieces, and it's our responsibility to find what fits.

Conclusion

If there's anything wrong with this post, feel free to correct me. I'm not a Legion main, but any sensible person whose played the game long enough should know pretty well that Legion is in need of some work. I hope you agree, and I encourage you to reply and discuss this topic with me and your peers. We're a community after all, wanting to improve a game we all love.

Thanks for a reading. It actually means a lot if you've read through this whole thing, and not just to me. :)

Pryzm

Legion was a bad concept to begin with. It is one of the few pieces of bad lore as well. Three millennial Antifa cry babies who can't handle life, so they start killing people. I'd love to see any one of them locked in a cage with David King. Though, it would likely sound too much like a baby seal being beaten...poor Legion.

How to fix Legion.....I guess in order to fix Legion you have to decide first and foremost whether you want them to continue being a massive BP generating machine or a straight-forward killer. The deep wounds concept is broken and should never have been the base of the power. Legion should have had more of a travel power in the form of "teleporting" as different members.

Thoughts:

Locker Walk - Legion can mark multiple lockers throughout the map and teleport through them.

Each member of Legion has different skills. As the game progresses, you unlock other members to "use". So, you get X hits you can then switch to Suzie. Suzie has the ability to see tracks more effectively. Player's scratch marks are more direction-based and last 2 seconds longer. Get so many hooks and you can access Frank. Frank is known for his anger and after being blinded or stunned X amount of times, he can rage for a short period, causing him to hit so the survivor so hard he knocks them down. (Think of Trapper with padded traps - you hit, they get back up and you have to quickly hit again). Perhaps another Legion member is into Parkour, so his ability is to hop through windows and over pallets, at the same speed as a survivor - thus cutting loops short.

You get the idea.

The problem is that each member of Legion is the same boring sissy. The concept of Legion should have been a combined effort of different skills. I think it would be very interesting to face a killer who could switch their skillsets mid match several times. Do I drop the pallet for the stun and risk Frank's power, or do I try to window loop and risk (insert Legion member name)'s power?

More complex, much more fun.

Obviously, I support the idea of throwing current Legion down the trash shoot and starting all over again.

Trwth

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1546958#Comment_1546958

I had a similar idea in the past, minus the other members. I like the idea, but maybe not for base DbD. I could imagine a stand-alone game mode featuring four players as the entire gang of The Legion against a group of Survivors with the likeness of your idea. Sounds like fun.