Mori Rework tentative.
Comments
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Not bad additions, actually.
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I don't care for it. Why would anyone Mori? The hook provides more points. The Mori has valuable game use right now as a "threat" and makes it possible to push SWF off Generators. If the fear of even one Hook could lead to a Mori, they take it more seriously. This usage makes it worthless for anything but a waste of time.
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Not bad, for two hook moris there would need to be an incentive to want to run them at all, because there's not really any benefit otherwise. I.e. you save time that would be spent carrying the survivor to their death hook but some of the animations are also pretty long. I think they'd only be used for dailies and otherwise just bloodweb clutter
One way could be moriing survivors gives a load more bloodpoints that can go over the cap. Or challenges like mori X amount of survivors in a period of time to get a charm or something.
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7000 bloodpoints for that is a rip-off. An offering like that is probably not worth more than a common (and shouldn't br a secret)
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Then there is the issue that we get a lot more of the RED Mori than we do of the Green, when it should be the other way around. The Red Mori already waste/camp slots that our other, more desirable add-on would appear. Now you are saying they would sit there and be something we would NEVER use? :) Sorry, no dice.
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These Moris are trash, there is no point in killing someone after 2 hooks.
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Best way to go about it IMO would be like this:
Devout Shrike Wreath
Uncommon Offering
-Grants 75% bonus Bloodpoints in the Sacrifice Category.
-Grants the Killer the ability to kill one Survivor who has been hooked by your hand twice during the next Trial.
Ardent Shrike Wreath
Rare Offering
-Grants 100% bonus Bloodpoints in the Sacrifice Category.
-Grants the Killer the ability to kill all Survivors who have been hooked by your hand twice during the next Trial.
Make all the yellow and green Wreath offerings like this. And then just make moris count as hooks and worth more Bloodpoints than a regular sacrifice.
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They would have to be worth a LOT more. They waste your time in game that the other Survivors can use to do things. Again, the point of a Mori is the THREAT, not the execution. If you require the Mori to need more than one Hook you have simply given another sledgehammer to SWF. They are hard enough to get off Generators with the Mori.
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Mori offerings that can kill after a one-hook are OP (except Cypress, which sucks). The offerings should not be a threat IMO, not even against SWF. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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I think it is a bad idea, memento mori need changes but this only gets worse this offferings and does not give any benefit for killers.
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Mori Fix:
Grants the ability to kill all/1 survivor(s) by your own hand after you have hooked 5 survivors or the exit gates have been powered.
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The equivalent offering would be something stupid on the survivor side, like "spawns the hatch with 1/2/3 less generators required (for yellow/green/iri)". As it is no survivor offering functions as a threat, nor should they. I really like your above idea to build them into wreaths but make them all 2 hook.
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I know, I'm a sneaky survivor snek, I'll make Freddy my avatar and post terrible killer nerf idea threads *twirls mustache* ...
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I try for a 2 hook game anyway when I bring an Ebony mori. Now I will say the only issue I see with forcing it on others is the BP cost would need to come down and it misses out the power of the Ebony. If while Im in the first chase and 2-3 gens get popped by a rush group I'm going to 1 hook mori someone to try and reduce the pressure without that option it really needs to be much cheaper.
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Mori's shouldn't give a huge edge anyway in my opinion, they should be used simply for a cool animation.
A BP bonus would be nice.
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useless, moris are used to get rid of someone quicker, not to waste time when you can hook them in few seconds
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The Mori, as it stands now, has been around for a LONG time and hasn't broken the game. The Mori is fine.
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Really good. Actually the second one still op, because it would become better than the ebony one.
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I don't get your meaning? I'm an American. I'm not connected to any team? And I'm a Rank 10-11 Killer. I can't seem to get below ten. I keep falling back and forth between 10-11. :)
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Lol
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Lol if by "valuable" you mean "game-breakingly OP", then sure, I'm on board. Even a green Mori is enough to 3-4k against a squad that's better than you. The best option against a Mori is actually to gen rush, not to stay off generators. If you're not rushing gens, you're going to lose a teammate to the Mori before you've made enough gen progress to have a chance to power the gates.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Moris are a massive outlier in strength because they're in the offerings slot, where most everything else is weak and has limited impact on the game. Most offerings are simple BPs, or maybe they'll slightly change hook density or thicken/lessen the mist. The best you can probably do outside of a Mori is choose a map that heavily favors survivor or killer, but even then the offering has no impact on the match once it starts. Meanwhile an Ebony Mori is the single strongest loadout element in the game, period. It's stronger than all other individual perks, all other individual add-ons, all other items, etc. Hell, a killer with an empty loadout except for an Ebony Mori would very likely outperform the same killer with a meta perk build, the best add-ons, and a BPs offering. Even keys, which are nowhere near as OP as Moris but which are often included in the same conversation, take up an item slot, not an offering slot. If survivors want to bring a key, that means they have to not bring items that are more useful during the match, like medkits and flashlights. Meanwhile, killers can run Iridescent Head + Infantry Belt + Ebony Mori if they want. That is straight up broken.
I think the 1st and 3rd options are great suggestions. They still gives the killer a benefit as they can dodge second chance perks like DS by not picking up the survivor if they've been hooked twice, but it's not strong enough to have much of an impact on most matches. That'd put it more in line with other offerings. Maybe that Putrid Oak got you one last hook and netted you an extra kill, for example, but usually it's just a mild convenience. This would be in a similar tier of usefulness, which I think is ideal.
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Frankly very lazy and uninspired...wasn't impressed the first 50 times I heard this idea
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It hasn't broken "the game" but it does break most games it gets used in. If every game had an Ebony Mori, the game would be dead. The only thing it has going for it is that it's somewhat rare.
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The Mori as it stands now is OP and should be nerfed.
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Mori fix: remove them
Yellow mori is basekit
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We will have to agree to disagree because the Mori has been around a LONG time and hasn't broken the game yet. If it were a problem, it would have shown up in the stats. It isn't.
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This would make the DC for hatch discussions explode even more since now even the Mori animation would be more than often denied.
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A good change I think, ebony mori is too strong. I don't even use them, between GF and Myers I have over 100. Considering they've nerfed medkits, toolboxes,flashlights, removed infinites, and reworked a bunch of strong survivor perks along the way, getting rid of ebony is the least they could do
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This change would make moris pointless. If you Mori instead of hook you get less bloodpoints and don't trigger hook perks like BBQ and Pop. It also encourages tunneling to counter DS and such. Here is how you fix moris:
- Make yellow Mori base kit. It's fun and changes nothing. If you are the last survivor and downed you are gonna die anyway.
- Make green and ebony Mori work off a token system. Every time a survivor is hooked you gain 1 token. Everytime a generator is completed you lose 1 token. Once you have 3 tokens you can spend them to Mori 1 survivor.
- Green Mori still allows 1 kill
- Ebony Mori allows 2 kills, but at the start of the trial, the generator furthest from the killer is automatically completed.
- Moris are no longer secret.
You fix keys in a similar way:
- Keys can no longer be found in chests.
- Keys only allow 1 survivor through then the hatch closes.
- The key now has an animation and timer for opening. 5-10 seconds.
- Once the hatch has been opened by a key it can't be opened again for 60 seconds.
- If a survivor dies on hook while carrying a key it is removed from the trial.
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I prefer:
Yellow Mori: You can kill any survivor that you've hooked twice. (More powerful than the current useless version but less powerful than Green)
Green Mori: You can kill one survivor that you've hooked once (same as it currently works)
Red Mori: Both of the above. You can kill one survivor that you've hooked once and any survivor that you've hooked twice. (Less powerful than the current overpowered version but still better than Green and it still allows multiple kills per match.)
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I could live with this, but I still think the Mori is fine as it stands.
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I Actually really like this, i would even use the mori if this change was made
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How would this show up in the stats? Do you just mean that BHVR would have noticed they're inflating kill rates and removed them? Kill rates were ~70% at red ranks as of the last stats drop, and I believe BHVR has stated that they treat a 2k average (50%) as a balanced result. Moris could be part of the reason the kill rate was so high, although we can't know how big the impact is without more data.
It's pretty intuitive that changing the 4k requirement from 12 hooks to 4 hooks + 4 downs would be an overwhelming advantage in a trial, though, especially when you consider that gen repairs slow way down after the first survivor dies.
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The green and red would still be too strong imo, since killing a survivor early is a massive advantage for the killer. I'd keep yellow the same and let green and red be the 1st and 3rd options OP suggested. Moris shouldn't have a big impact on the outcome, as all of the other offerings pretty much don't.
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What do you mean offerings don't have a big impact? There are offerings to pick maps, offerings which double your endgame score in a given category, offerings that make the hooks significantly farther apart, I don't think one kill one hook early is out of line with any of those.
The Red Mori is clearly overpowered though, multiple early kills is a bit too much.
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EBONY MEMENTO MORI
Ebony rework doesn't even make sense.
If the survivor has been hooked twice, the third hook would kill them. So what would be the advantage of throwing an ebony mori? None.
To kill a survivor on the 3rd attempt, we already have hooks, so that rework is pointless. The current ebony mori just skips 1 attempt, which is a real advantage for the killer, so that's why it's an offering. Offerings give advantages, your "rework" is not an advantage, it's just making ebony moris useless (I kinda feel that you are making this post out of a ragequit).
Next.
IVORY MEMENTO MORI
For this mori it seems that you have suggested 2 possible changes:
1- Kill one survivor who has been hooked, except the Obsession
Again, a nonsense. Mainly, because usually you don't want your obsession to die.
Most obsession-related perks are meant to give advantages to the killer while he is using his obsession for whatever reason.
The only case you would want to kill your obsession is if you are using an endgame build with "Remember me". In that case, you want to hit your Obsession as many times as possible and kill them.
So why would we change Ivory mori just to counter a perk that is not even OP?
Next.
2- Kill a survivor who has been hooked twice
This change is useless for the same reason your suggested change for ebony moris is.
A survivor who has been hooked twice, would die the next time he/she's is hooked. So what's the point on running an offering for that.
Next.
MY THOUGHTS ON ACTUAL MORIS
They don't need to be changed at all. They give advantages, of course, but that's the point of burning an offering.
It's true that ebony moris can be strong, but let's be real, we just use them from time to time when we want to have some fun.
Using moris will actually damage your performance as killer. So there's already a trade off for using them.
Finally, if you burn ebony moris survivors will unlock their true strength called "True sneaky&crazy gen rushing".
You will get 5 gens done and they will escape before you can even blink. So running ebony moris is actually more detrimental for killers that it is for survivors.
Usually killers who run ebony moris want to have fun, not to try hard. If I want to try hard, I'll pick a meta killer with meta perks, I don't need an ebony mori for that.
Ebony moris are cool and fun because of the animations. That's my only reason for using moris, because they damage my performance a lot.
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I mean "impact" as in "impacts the events that occur within a match". Map offerings can tilt the field towards a survivor-sided or killer-sided map, but they do nothing to impact the game once it starts. Bloodpoints are great for leveling up, but they only indirectly help you win. Mist and hook density offerings only give you a small advantage. It's rare that a hook offering is the difference between making it to a hook and not making it to a hook; usually it'll just save you a few seconds of carry time over the match.
Killing a survivor early, like the green mori is now, is crazy strong, though. Once the first person gets hooked, the gameplay loop is approximately this: 1 person on the hook, 1 person going to save / healing the person on the hook, 1 person getting chased, and 1 person doing gens. Usually survivors get to keep that up for a lot of the game, with killers occasionally getting a quick second down and forcing both survivors off gens. The second survivors are down to three people, though, the killer is able to much more easily keep people off of gens. Hook one, find the next with BBQ/Thrilling/etc., chase and down, rinse and repeat. If they get an early Mori, which is easy if they want it, they pretty much need to let themselves get looped for a few gens in order to lose.
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Op post real? because if it is it pointless to mori after 2 hooks you should just hook them.
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"Offerings give advantages, your "rework" is not an advantage, it's just making ebony moris useless (I kinda feel that you are making this post out of a ragequit)."
This is the exact reason I feel Moris need a nerf. Current offerings only give small advantages. OP's proposed Ebony Mori is a small advantage; you won't need to worry as much about DS late in the game and you will be better able to secure kills because of it. No more downing someone near an exit gate and having to pick them up and eat the DS so they don't crawl out.
The current Ebony Mori changes the win condition from 12 hooks to 4 hooks + 4 downs. That's the strongest single loadout element in the game. It's not nearly on the same tier as "moves hooks closer together" or "lessens the mist".
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No, I mean that BHVR gets stats on every game and tracks exactly what add-on is used and when. They know how many deaths are due to Mori and how many are due to Sacrifice, or even bleeding out. I suspect the main thing they track (and balance by) is the tightrope between Survivors and Killers, i.e. is one side or the other running away with the game. And we aren't talking about individual matches. The Mori, in current form, has been around for a long time and clearly hasn't allowed Killers to dominate. In fact, most Killers don't use them for a variety of reasons.
- You get fewer points.
- The animation can cost you other Kills while you stand there doing it.
- You get tired of the whiners and wingers who have no pride who complain about it.
I expect, although I have not seen the stats, that Mori use has gone up in direct proportion to the increasing numbers and efficacy of SWF and their 5th Perk (Comms). In short, how does one deal with five generators popping in 3-5 minutes? Gut a Survivor and cut their number down. I've found it works really well. More to the point when they know the Mori is in play they are pushed off the Generators easier because they know even one Hook could mean death the second time they go down. I take the Mori ALL THE TIME but that doesn't mean I use them. Mostly I just want them to see I have a hidden offering so they assume it is the Mori.
Without the Mori a team will group up on a Generator, and ignore your first hits just to finish it because they aren't scared of you. :)
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There are quite a few possibilities. Those seem interesting, but I wonder if a Mori should be based on progress, not hooks. An example:
Cypress Mori: As it stands.
Ivory Mori: Once 5 gens are done, you can kill all survivors by your own hand, providing they have been hooked at least once.
Ebony Mori: Once 4 gens are done, you can kill all survivors by your own hand, providing they have been hooked at least once.
And then another addition.
Iridescent Mori: Killer can Mori all survivors anytime, so long as they have been hooked twice.
Just a thought.
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Well once the DC hack has been fixed, there will be penalties again. Who is to say that you'll get mori'd? I'd rather have the hook points most of the time.
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"Bloodpoints" don't indirectly help you win, they're literally the victory points on the endgame scoring screen. If you have the most points on that endgame score you won on points. A 100% bonus BP offering can be up to 4000 higher score at the end of the match which is 4/5 of the amount a survivor gets for escaping for comparison.
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makes them useless.
I'd make red so you can ,ori after hooking everyone at least once, and green I personally think is fine
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that what I do.
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The fact that a dev has said that a change to the mori is in the pipeline should be a sign that the mori is problematic.
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<laughs> You are assuming the change will weaken it. I make no such assumption. When we see it, we will see it. But right now the DEV are working hard to balance SWF, so be careful what you wish for.
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Why would I not assume the change will weaken it? What is the alternative?
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Just make the current Ivory Mori the new Ebony Mori. As for the current Ivory Mori nerf it so you can only do it on the obsession. As for the Cypress Mori just leave as is...
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My change for them is pretty simple really.
Ebony Mori - You can kill the survivor who has been hooked twice. For each kill using the Ebony Mori you get a 25% token stack to blood points, similar to BBQ. Up to 100%. Also for those saying there isn't an advantage to being able to kill a survivor when they are on their last hook is kind of foolish really. Sure you don't get BBQ, or Pop if you are running it. But you will by pass a certain perk that has tons of hate. Decisive Strike. Which is kind of big in red ranks if you ask me, when everyone has it and they act overly cocky.
Ivory Mori - Same effect as Ebony Mori, except it only goes up to 50% extra blood points in all categories.
Yellow Mori - Base kit.
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