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Broken trend in survivor perks.
I noticed that survivors are getting a few of safety net/second chance perks recently. Even if the effect is minimal, I heavily dislike the entire concept of second chances unless they have a massive benefit to the game.
A good example of a well designed second chance is Borrowed time which is triggered in terror radius and soft counters tunneling and camping. There is counterplay with stealth killers and the perk can be avoided completely by just not camping. The only minor issue with this is it's too good in endgame and the timer might be a slight bit too long, but overall it's balanced.
A bad example is the most recent perk desperate measures. While it's effect isn't near as game changing as something like DS or unbreakable, it's still a safety net if the survivors mess up It punishes the killer for playing well and that's just not good perk design, especially when we're talking about simple injures. The killer isn't punished for something they did like camping, they literally get punished for progressing the game and applying injury pressure.
Even if the perk was weak as hell, I still wouldn't like it. People need to understand that it's not about the strength, but about the design.
A better design of the perk would've been this:
When you are fully healed, gain a 30/35/40% bonus speed to unhooking, healing and mending.
It's just that soul guard was introduced and that is easily one of my most hated perks in the game if not my most hated. Now with this perk being here it shows that BHVR is fine with safety nets on survivor which is terrifying as it shows that crutches like DS and unbreakable might never be adjusted.
Comments
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Until they resolve camping and tunneling i am against ds and unbrakable changes
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You could make the same argument for any survivor perk that increases speed on anything . It's a good perk that only works when the team is weak.
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Unbreakable is fine, DS is not imo. DS isn't even an anti-tunneling perk right now. At high rank it's more often used as license to play insanely aggressive for a minute.
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Desperate Measures is honestly not nearly as strong as you're making it out to be. Unhook speed is rarely very important, so the main effect of the perk is 14% healing speed for each injured, dying, or hooked survivor. You need three survivors to be injured, dying, or hooked in order for the healing speed to surpass Botany. Once you heal the first of those three survivors, you're slower than Botany again. Botany also has the added benefit of a 33% healing efficiency boost, which is way stronger than a faster unhooking speed imo.
If Desperate Measures counted dead survivors too it would have awesome synergy with No One Left Behind and you could get some crazy fast unhooks & heals during the EGC. As is, though, its upside is limited as the game goes on because dead survivors don't count. That's in line with Thanat, but that's also a reason why Thanat isn't very strong in most builds. With Thanat you can at least run other anti-healing perks like Sloppy to maximize the benefit. For Desperate Measures, if you use the perk, you're making it weaker. Similarly, if you're playing against the killers that most effectively use Thanat (Plague & Legion), this perk won't help you. You almost never need to heal against Plague because it's all done with fountains, while healing against Legion is often just a waste of time.
I think this perk is just flat out inferior to Botany and I don't think it will get much play once the character is no longer new.
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Here we go with the Soul Guard hype again.
In the past week. 7 days. How many time has someone been picked up in front of you and you tried to hit them and Soul Guard activated? If you say more than 2 or 3, you're probably lying. No one actually uses that perk and it's a crappy perk
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Also I just disagree with the entire premise of your post. You say a survivor perk should not punish the killer for furthering the game. It's not punishing the killer, it's rewarding the survivor.
And if you truly feel that way, do you feel the same about Fire Up? Survivors do their objective and as a result, the killers kicking speed gets faster.
Literally the same thing. The perk design is to boost one side, not punish the other.
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And you cant use ds because the guy dindt tunnel you
if they play agressive you can just count how many seconds he have
i do the same when someone use BT agresavelly i just count down 7 seconds and i get him down easy
you say that you cant use ds when someone dont tunnel you its the same as i say that you cant use NOED if they dont gen rush
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Nothing wrong with second chance perks inherently. Any type of perk has the potential for being fun and viable.
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Desperate Measures is not a second chance perk, it's an altruism perk.
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Desperate Measures is inferior to Botany and nobody will run it, so I really wouldn’t worry about it.
This kind of perk design also isn’t a recent trend. Perks like Fire Up or Bitter Murmur are kind of the same - you’re “punished” (people love this word for some reason) for doing your objective. But their effects are not that great so nobody runs them. Same here.
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Desperate Measures is just a sort of anti Thanatophobia for Survivors. It's really not as effect as people make it out to be much like Thana is not as effective as people make it out to be. For Thana it just adds a very slight slowdown to actions for all for each injured Survivor. Desperate just adds an okay speed up for Altruistic actions for one Survivor for each injured Survivor. Overall it's another filler perk, the only really viable perk the new Survivor has is Built to Last for the extra flashlights and depending on add-ons another full health state from a med kit.
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Your definition of second chance seems a bit broad.
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Botany knowledge is more consistent and better. Stop crying about meh perks.
It's fake hype kinda like autodidact and soulguard
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It's not really that simple. If the person is running DS + Unbreakable, they're basically invincible for a minute after being unhooked unless you're planning to stand outside their locker or stand on top of them while they're slugged for 60 seconds. As killer I've seen people with DS and Unbreakable intentionally take hits for healthy teammates who were on death hook. I've seen many DS users jump on risky central gens right after getting unhooked and just run to the nearest locker if I try to pressure them. Plays like that are honestly crap. DS should exist as a deterrent to tunneling, not a get out of jail free card for playing more aggressive than you should. I would change it so that it's disabled if you're healed to healthy, disabled if you work on a gen for more than 3 seconds (just to allow you to tap regressing gens on the way by without losing DS), disabled if you start unhooking another survivor, and disabled if the killer hooks another survivor. If any of those things happen, you're clearly not getting tunneled and you should not still get to have DS up.
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I dont like bt and DS and the other second Chance perks too, without them i could just Tunnel someone out of the game and finally i would be rewarded for playing good :(
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Ima be completely honest here and say this perk is really good but only in the hands of someone experienced with a certain type of play style.
I have a friend whos rank 1 with me who runs soul guard, DS, unbreakabill, and tenacity and when i tell you this man pulls off a soul guard save every game almost.
If someone is on death hook he will go for the save and if he goes down he will crawl under the person whos hooked and if you do it right the killer cant pick you up.
He then will pick himself up with unbreakable and get the save and he usually gets away because of soul guard.
Doesnt always work but when it does its nice to see a plan come to work before your eyes and some times it doesnt and then he waste his unbreakable for nothing.
Fun times
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There's several issues with second chance perks.
The first is that no matter how well designed, they're always exploitable in SOME way. You say BT is a well designed perk because of its requirements stopping tunneling and camping, however it becomes problematic that the killer cannot create any pressure in a match when people are instantly unhooked. It's rarer that it's used to protect against tunneling and camping than it's just used to make bad plays safe.
The second is how well they all synergise together to give the killer no counterplay, because each counter is combatted by a different second chance, such as DS + unbreakable (+ soul guard)
Personally I don't see Desperate Measures as a second chance. We have a lot of perks which increase healing speed, and often do it better than DM, but DM very specifically counters strategies that rely on keeping many survivors injured, using thana, dying light, sloppy butcher, or add ons. It's a very valid perk that counteracts otherwise very oppressive killer builds, but you wouldn't call someone Botany Knowledge a second chance and it's basically the same effect.
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You can let the guy in the ground the teamates will need to help him while you are going to the other guy that saves him
its all game sense you dont hook you will take time from survival
you down the survival that save the guy that has ds
in this time no gens are done an you gain an hook take time from survivals because they played dumb
if survival do dumb technic you can just been smart
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With Unbreakable / DS you don't need to save the person who's downed at all. They can just stand up.
It's also not advantageous to slug unless you can chase and down another survivor pretty quickly. Otherwise you're wasting about as much time as a hook, but you're not actually getting a hook out of it. It absolutely hurts the killer to have to slug people because of DS if there isn't another survivor in the area to chase.
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I was hoping from the title this thread would be about the trend of survivor perks inflicting the 'broken' status effect...
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Being unable to pick up a survivor by the hook is an exploitation bug and if reported, your pal might catch a Ban Hammer if they repeatedly get reported and someone vid-caps the exploit.
But, TBH... Remove the locker tech from DS and red ranks will stop using it lol. That's the only time I really ever get D-striked. I also don't tunnel or slug(unless its a must). So i've auto countered BT/DS/Unbreakabill just on my play style alone. This is at high ranks too. I also don't mind only getting 1-2k, while netting over 25k. I feel like folks strive way too hard to get a 4k, thus promotes the continuously toxic cycle(no i don't think survivors are entitled to survive. I just don't wanna be tunneled/camped with 5 gens remaining).
As a survivor main, I rarely run 2nd chance perks unless I have a chase challenge(then i'll use DS) or if i have an Unhook challenge, i'll bring BT along. Otherwise, my stealth build nets me a minimum of 17-19k per game. 25k+ if given too many opportunities. Hell, I still stand firm that no survivor should be forced to get into a chase with the killer just to earn BP(If i can get 2-3 unhooks, 3-4 gens done, how's it my fault the killer sucks? Nah fam). Yall make me want to post my killer perk suggestions.
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