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How to soften "gen rush"
Change 2 man gen speed.
Why is there such a massive boost from one survivor doing a gen to two survivors doing a gen, and any more after that add almost nothing?
Currently gens go from 80 seconds solo to 47 seconds duo, so basically halving the time a gen takes.
Why isn't is more gradual like 80-65-47-36?
Comments
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I still think they should just increase gen times to 100 seconds cause even by yourself gen rushing is so prominent.
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Gen rushing isn't a thing. That is a survivors only objective. Killers are supposed to stop that. Killers need some sort of pressure or else it'd be a cake walk. That's why there's perks and full on builds dedicated to stopping gen progression. If gen rushing is an issue for a killer than they need to run those perks and practice gen patrolling. Maybe pick a killer like legion who's good at stalling gens.
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We know they won't do that so this is the next best thing. At least it would reward you for patrolling gens. You don't know how many times i will drop a chase to protect a discordance gen or see them with bbq, only for it to go off in my face because it is just to fast and travel time is to long.
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And that's a map design issue. It shouldn't require certain Perk builds or specific killers to accomplish with any type of consistency.
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Uh...yes it should. If every killer could easily stop gen progression then why even play other killers? They'd all be the same. Its not supposed to be easy. It's easier for some killers but it's still a task. Just like repairing the generators is a task.
Do you play red rank games? If you do, you'd know 90% of red rank killers have no issue stopping gen progression and applying immediate pressure on survivors. People wanting gens to take even longer will flat out make gens impossible to do against any experienced killers. ESPECIALLY on small maps.
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4 survivors 5 gens 1 killer 12 objectives. the math doesn't add up.
"Gen rush" is the term used to describe the fact that gens are just to fast to do. What else would you call it?
There are no slow down perks that don't require the killer to do something. This means the killer can only pressure a single generator at any point in the game if survivors are not urban evading in a corner because they heard a heart beat.
Pop, i need to reach the gen to do anything with it, something that 2 man gens prevent way to many times.
ruin, does nothing if you don't let go. The killer can't force 4 survivors off the gens at once can he?
Corrupt intervention can be completely ignored if survivors are not stupid (sadly they are)
Thrilling tremors requires the survivor to let go of the generator and is short.
Tana requires all survivors to be injured and is still negligible even during the rare moments it is at full strength.
Nothing forces the gens to slow down.
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You have one survivor downed and hooked and find the next.
That leaves 2 survivors - one to go unhook and one doing a gen.
You should never have all gens remaining - the best thing you can do is plan ahead and prepare for which gens youre willing to sacrifice so you can aim for a good 3-gen.
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Cruel limits should be reworked to block every gen for a particular time after a generator is completed to slow down progress a bit. It's kinda passive though which is what I'm worried about.
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You make it seem like finding a survivor who is hidden with no indication of where they are is easy and not time consuming.
Meanwhile on planet earth, you waste 10 to 20 seconds walking to the survivors you did see with bbq while the hooked survivor is saved and they 2 man a gen in 47 seconds, you have a choice. go back to the hook and distract two survivors for a small amount of time or keep going to the survivor you saw with bbq. Either way you will lose 2 gens.
Repeat this process every hook.
We are talking swf and good survivors here not brown ranks.
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I don't think anybody actually runs Thrilling as a slowdown perk, people run it to see which gens are being worked on
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I know, but i felt i needed to list all possible "slowdowns"
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Just think about it, if the first survivor drops every pallet, she/he creates enough time to finish 3 gens. M1 killers can’t stop it, even high mobility killers can’t stop it. Maybe if u chase them off from the gens with Ruin, but totem spawn is terrible ruin usually is a 1-2 minute perk. So please don’t come up with this non-sense that the killer needs to stop it. If you would play killer you would exactly know its impossible.
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Um it doesn't match up because the killer is supposed to be a power role? if it were only 6 hooks then it would be easy to win as killer lol
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As a red rank survivor I've never seen gen rushing in action in anything other than Ebony Mori games. Except maybe once when we had a really low rank killer during MMR and we could basically just sit on a gen each without being bothered once. I don't think that counts as gen rushing though. Just an inefficient killer.
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Should be, but are they...?
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If gen rushing wasn't a thing, then gens wouldn't be done so fast. Slow down perks be damned, gens fly by and it's not fun to have to deal with as a killer. It even creates the symptom of killers playing in ways survivors don't enjoy, like face camping, tunneling, bringing mori's, using NOED. It's really a dumb argument to try to deny gen rush's existence when it's so prevalent.
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Genspeed isnt a problem. Killers who think they deserve to win every game are a problem. Also people who focus on the early game so much are a problem, it does not matter if the first Gens are done fast. This is the usual case, the first one or two Gens are fast, afterwards, the Killer should have some Pressure by having a Hook or two.
And those "Depip-Squads"-People...Yeah, whatever. Those are edge cases. Those dont really deserve much attention for 99,99% of the game most people play. Because the Majority of players on both sides are not that good, you dont need to be an exceptionally skilled Killer to win against Red Ranks and you dont need to be an exceptionally skilled Survivor to win against Red Rank Killers. DBD is an easy game, overall.
And well, regarding "Penalty for multiple people on a Gen"... It is already slower. Reducing the numbers even more will just result in Survivors definitely splitting up, which results in even faster Gens. If 2 Survivors on a Gen would take 65 seconds, there is no reason to be on a Gen with 2 people. So there would be more Survivors who do Gens alone, meaning that instead of 1 Gen being completed in 65 seconds there will be 2 Gens completed in around 80 Seconds.
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The first 3 gens are practically guaranteed to go by your first hook (against good survivors) since the survivors have the loop path and pallet spawns available to them.
My suggestion is to help the middle part of the game where you are contending with 4 survivors doing 2 generators. Even if you do the right thing and don't tunnel vision and chase survivors off gens, the 47 seconds will destroy you as it can EASILY take 10 to 20 seconds to even start a chase if the survivors have ears and eyes.
It is to fast and a large cause of the frustration in this game.
They increased the time by a whopping 2 seconds!
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if gen speeds aren't a problem, why can they be done in under 4 minutes even when the killer doesn't make a mistake?
Edit: I should clarify, gens can be done in under 3 minutes, I was just assuming decent, uncoordinated solo que players.
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Is it a perk that's worth using at all do you think (cruel limits), I've still yet to try it in a build to find out for myself lol due to work and stuff unfortunately I don't get on dbd enough as id like to
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Except there are a majority of killers who can't apply pressure because maps are too big and they take too long to get to any generators. When 2 to 3 gens can pop just after finishing an average length chase, its too quick. But the devs don't care and have no plans or ideas on how to fix it. But looks Killers we buffed Leatherface slightly, isn't that enough to distract you from the glaring issues that make up this game and its lack of balance? (Pay no attention to the BIlly nerf)
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"Genrush" is doing nothing but repairing generator. "Genrush" is ignoring your hooked and slugged teammates just to finish that juicy gen. "Genrush" is a scummy strategy on the level of tunneling. But most people don't use this term in this meaning, most people mix it up with survivors efficiently doing their objective.
Although doing something like increasing the timer might work for SWF (because everyone knows where everyone is, everyone knows what everyone does, not a single second is wasted), in solo queue it would become a nightmare. Would you personally want to waste almost 2 minutes of your time on a single gen, when you play alone and there's no one to help you?
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Where did i say increase the base time?
I only want to lengthen the mid game when survivors start to double up on gens.
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Slow down perks shouldn't be mandatory to do well, these perks should help make it easier not be completely required on all but the strongest killers. People say "don't increase gen time it's boring to hold M1." But these same people are so gen hungry they let their teammates die trying to rush the game as quickly as possible.
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Couldn't agree more.
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They should add more side objectives to make game more complex and fun
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What can they add that isn't just more m1? We already know from totems that anything that requires collecting before a gen can be done would be made easy and only a one time thing. The parts would probably be scattered around the gens themselves as there isn't many places to hide things.
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What does veteran players deranking to stomp on potatoes have to do with game balance? All that shows is people who intentionally derank to bully new players are jackasses, it’s meaningless in terms of looking at whether or not the game favors one side or the other when the players are actually equally skilled.
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Yes it is. Whilst doing gens is indeed a survivors only objective, it's a world of difference when four survivors run commodius toolbox, BNP and an add-on for speeding up repair progression alongside Streetwise.
Now tell me three gens popping simultaneously in under 2 minutes is not gen rushing.
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If "Gen Rushing" Doesn't exist then neither does "Tunneling" and "Camping" sense technically defending gens is only a secondary objective and killing is the main objective and doing these is just "Kill Rushing".
Tunneling/Camping is the otherside of the coin as its killer's equivalent so if one exists then the other must as well.
Also before you say that Tunneling/Camping pervents the survivor from playing the game so does Gen Rushing for set up killers like Hag/Trapper/Demo or build up killers such as Michael/Plaue/Oni.
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The game would definitely benefit from some sort of change. One team has 4 people and 5 objectives... the other side has 1 person and up to 12 objectives unless mori/die early on the hook/quit, etc.
The fact that one side can get 3/5ths of their objectives done in the time it takes the other to do 1/12th is crazy. Yeah, killer has the ability to snowball... IF people actually go for hook saves and start playing sloppy. A really good team knows you can leave someone on the hook a good, long time without them actually dying. And insane teams will happily let them die.
As has been said, those sorts of monster teams are very rare, but even a bunch of scrubs can finish 3 gens in the time it takes you to get one hook at red ranks. If you're not a high mobility killer and the remaining gens are spread apart, it's gonna be a really rough time.
It's obviously not unwinnable, but it just feels bad. Like, the objective for one side is to chill out and hold M1 for most of the match and do a chase or two if found, while the other side is this frantic race where any one mistake can cost you the game, because there's no one to cover for you, and no second chance perks. I can't unbreakable a generator to get it unfinished again. If it pops, it pops. Meanwhile survivor second chance perks synergize and stack on top of the 2 extra lives they already get.
I don't want survivors stuck doing even more boring M1 holding, which is why I continue to be in favor of some more active objectives. Even if they're easy, at least have them move around the map more and do a few light gameplay activities. "Optimal" survivor play is the most boring thing in the game, and that's a shame for both sides.
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Tell me do you think camping is a thing?
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Sadly i doubt that will ever happen due to current mechanics of the game
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The bias here seems strong.
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How to soften "Gen Rush":
All Survivors spawn together.
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Gens can not be done within like 3 or 4 minutes if the Person playing killer is actually good with the killer and knows what he‘s doing. Except maybe clown but when we start balancing this game around the worst killers in the game then things will get bad real Quick.
I‘m not saying that nothing should be done to give killers a bit more time and make the experience less stressful, plus i do think at the highest Level of play gen Times can be seen as a bit of a Problem, but that would take many more Balance changes as some killers are already very good, giving them more time would possibly make them op. And of Course solo survivors would also need some help if the survivors objective time would be increased.
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I do play killer but good job assuming wrong. Gen rushing has never been a problem for me because I play hag, spirit and legion. Killers who are good at map coverage and applying pressure. Sloppy butcher also helps slow down the game, especially with legions feral frenzy. If you're letting gens fly by, you are doing something wrong.
To complain about survivors doing their objective is just like survivors complaining about killers killing people. Its their objective. Killer entitlement is saying gens need to be harder and take longer but in honesty red rank killers tend not to have this issue.
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I am not asking gens to take longer. They will still take 80 seconds each solo or less with toolboxes.
Do you read?
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Slow down perks aren't mandatory if you're good at map pressure. Its a skill you have to learn, stop wanting it to be given to you no matter what killer you play. And so what if they are mandatory, that's what the perk slots are for. Your objective is to stop people from escaping, stoping gen progression. So it's obviously important enough for a perk slot or two. Stop trying to make killer easy. You'll never get better if the game is handled in your favor.
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I play killer (spirit, hag and legion) and I apply great map pressure and I get 4ks. If you stick on one survivor for 3 gens you are the problem. If a survivor runs you around for 3 gens without being downed (they already nerfed maps and pallet spawns), you are the problem, if you let gens fly by, you are the problem. Take accountability, learn from your mistakes, adapt and try new perks. Stop blaming every other aspect of the game.
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Genrush indeed does not really exist in non competetive play. I have been genrushed 1 time in a non SWF training game and this was against a Tournament team. When people say "genrush" they actually dont mean genrush, they just mean they do the objective when they can.
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They already nerfed items like toolboxes. They're basically useless for gens unless you have brand new parts. If toolboxes are screwing you over that much then all I can say is get better? Don't let them sit on 3 gens for that long. Gens will get done, you can't stop that. But you need to apply pressure. If the killer you play just isn't working or the perks aren't doing it for you, change it up for a couple of games.
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You want to change the time if more than one person is on the gen, therefore that is wanting to change how long it takes to do gens.
Do you read?
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Never did I say they don't exist. They clearly do and tons of killers do camp and tunnel. "Gen rushing" was never an issue until killers wanted easy kills so they all started camping and tunneling. Survivors them did what they had to do to leave as fast as possible. With a killer not applying pressure, it was easy to do gens. But somehow now it's turned into a problem that survivors are doing to ruin games when no one talks about the reason why they do gens as fast as possible.
I personally don't instantly do all gens. I run prove thyself cause 1) I'm a dweet main and 2) cause I like doing totems and saves so making up gen time when I'm not doing those things helps out a lot.
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no the over all time is still 80 seconds, they just need to slightly adjust their internal numbers.
Oh man, don't get me started on gen pressure, back when i played OMEGA blink nurse it was so easy. i guess the survivors were just trash right?
I guess i can forget that there are more killers in this game outside of the only ones with some mobility and the queen of camping that needs to be deleted, Hag.
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Make injured survivors have a natural gen repair debuff. Either work on gens with a debuff, or heal first to normalize times.
Resiliance is the perk counter for the debuff.
It rewards killers for spreading damage and contributes to their secondary objective, protecting gens.
Rewards survivors working together and making a group effort.
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Yes it's a thing.
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Nah, i don't want to increase the base gen time. they just need to make the group repair part fair.
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It doesn't increase base time. It's effected by your status.
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I like to keep my survivors injured tho :( giving them a reason to heal can be bad sometimes.
I always spread as much damage as i can and patrol gens that i notice being worked on, there just isn't enough time with walking killers on many of the maps.
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