Keeping legacy exclusive, while event&exclusive skins were distributed is huge hypocrisy.
Before I'll tell you why this all mess is one big hypocrisy let me state a few things:
1) I'm legacy owner myself. I'm not craving for making legacy not exclusive because I want it (though I'm lacking some pieces so that's partly the case). I'm asking for making legacy available because I believe it is not fair to people who didn't get to farm it and it is also unfair to some other ex-exclusive owners in light in BHVR's statements against exclusivity.
2) I'm not saying Legacy should be just given to everybody. It could and should take some work to do. Maybe farm devotion 10, maybe farm equally difficult bloodweb like in 2016 or farm 6 prestiges etc. The point is to make legacy AVAILABLE to everyone. So everyone could have a chance to EARN it and not have to buy accounts with it, hack it or simply look at others who have it and be jealous.
3) It doesn't matter whether legacy is good type of skins or not. People have different tastes and many of them would like to earn such skins because they liked them, no matter how bad they are.
Now, I'll be taking my information from these posts, which I consider BHVR's official position on that topic: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/103996/developer-update-november-2019#latest
If there are more posts, clips etc where they add more to their position about exclusivity, please share them here so I have more to add to my point. Let's begin.
My main thesis is
"Keeping legacy entirely exclusive, while distributing Event cosmetics and PAX2016 skins is a huge hypocrisy".
In November 2019 BHVR has decided, that they would like to move away from exclusivity and they wanted PC and console players be equal in that situation. Another reason were scammers, who sold exclusive skins for insane money and just took money without giving the code. For that reason they distributed different exclusive skins to people on all platforms available at the moment, with an exception of event skins (distributed on june 23) and legacy skins, which developers decided not to distribute for the following reasons (which they at least have stated in their blog):
- The difference between the Legacy items and the event items is that Legacy was earned before a major rework of the Bloodweb system
- To award Legacy to the rest of the community would severely alienate and undermine that part of the community that has been with us since 2016.
On first and even on second glance these reasons sound pretty fair. Sadly, they are not and here's why:
Difference between event skins and legacy skins
So, the first reason BHVR decided that legacy is not something worth distribution/making available, while event skins are is that Legacy skins were earned before a bloodweb rework and required a lot of work to earn.
However, BHVR seems to forget, that people didn't "just get" event skins for nothing. They also put a lot of work in earning these skins, which wasn't something easy aswell. Game in 2017, 2018 also had a lot of gamebreaking bugs or things that made it very hard to play. Yeah, it was "different" kind of effort, yet there was a lot of effort needed nonetheless.
Basically, BHVR implies that the effort people put into earning event skins is not enough to be taken into consideration, while the effort people put into earning legacy skins was enough to make these people "better" than other? BHVR undervalues effort people put into earning event skins and overvalues effort people put into earning legacy.
That's hypocrisy.
AWARDING X WOULD ALIENATE AND UNDERMINE THAT PART OF THE COMMUNITY
BHVR also says they wouldn't like to "alienate and undermine" certain parts of community. Isn't what they did with exclusive skins owners and event skins owners later? What makes these parts of the community worse than the legacy owners part? Because they joined later?
They are also using word "alienate", which I don't really understand here. Wouldn't "alienate" mean what it means if they highlighted that certain part of the community, making it worse/better than others? In case of legacy, this part of the community is already alienated by having what others don't. That part of the community is already alienated by BHVR's special treatment, which makes them different from other people. Making that part of the community equal to others, like they did with some other parts of the community wouldn't "alienate" anyone.
If this is not hypocrisy, I don't know what is then.
we hope to put an end to shady resellers and scams
If you didn't know, shady resellers and scammers don't sell only exclusive pax skins. They also sold legacy: accounts with legacy, accounts with hacked legacy and simply hacked legacy (give us login&pass to your acc, anon, and some money, we promise we give you legacy). Why not put an end to scammers selling exclusives AT ALL and not just reduce the spectre of stuff they are trying to use to scam you?
Please don't say these are rare. You can google or make a search on sites like ebay and you will easily find that filth there.
giving event skins to everyone gives them to those who lost them.
BHVR says:
To put it simply: there is no way for us to verify who earned these items legitimately, as they weren't stored in the same way we currently store items. Since then, we have reworked our storage system and item tracking and made sure that if a similar issue occurs, we should be able to easily restore items.
What should I add here? Oh yeah, people who lost their legacy because of a bug. They have put that "extremely valuable" effort and BHVR seems to be caring about such people very much, as BHVR refuses to undervalue their efforts in getting legacy. Why hasn't BHVR done anything about these people yet? There are a lot of ways to restore legacy, proving it with a steam achievement or a screenshot. Or are these people WORSE than those who got lucky and haven't lost their progress because of the bug? Are these people worse than those who lost their event skins? Why BHVR can't apply same rules to everyone? Why does BHVR feel the need to constantly undermine certain parts of the community, while overvaluing others? Or they just can't not to do that?? This is just another display of BHVR's hypocrisy on that topic.
people might feel disappointed, but we believe it's for the best.
While we do understand that some players may feel disappointed by having us award these items to people who may not have taken part in these events, we believe that we do this in the community's best interests.
Once again. If it's about event skins, then "it is for the community's best interests", but when it's about legacy, then "it's different".
One. Big. Hypocrisy.
THINGS I CANNOT PROVE, BUT DEFINITELY REMEMBER BEING SAID. NEED LINKS/SOURCES.
You got to use these cosmetics earlier
(c) Some dev about PAX skins being given out.
We don't want platform exclusives
(c) Some devs about event&pax skins given out.
The legacy is different, of course.
please be consistent, bhvr.
If you refuse to go that path to its very end you should turn back. Return exclusivity to the skins you distributed (at least to those skins, that can be tracked by steam inventory), apologise to the people you robbed of skins and move on and never return to that. However, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't turn back.
If you still will to stay with the opinion you've shown in the posts I've linked above, don't be hypocrites. Apply the same rules to legacy, make it AVAILABLE to everyone. Don't try to sit on two chairs. Be fair to everyone. Make all players have same opportunities to get skins they would like to.
IN CONCLUSION
I would add more, if I find more "official" posts. I would personally like to find the post where one of devs says "you got to use these skins earlier", was it Peanits, right? Any help would be appreciated.
And to you, community managers and mods, who, I'm pretty sure, are going to read that post, please don't answer if you're going to answer with a generic "Legacy is diFfErEnT". Just don't. Thanks.
P.S.
I'm pretty sure I've crossed the line with that post, though I don't care much. I respect BHVR for what they have achieved with DbD so far, yet I can't remain positive about all their decisions. I apologise for my rude statements, yet I can't keep them to myself, because I believe that's undeniable truth. If I broke some rules with that posts and I get banned, then so be it, as it is all about sending a message, which I hope reaches the right person.
Comments
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I admit, I did not read your post, but there is one thing which is clear:
Legacy was given to players who played the game in a time where nobody knew if it would survive. With more Grind, less BP Offerings and so on.
Event Exclusives where obtainable by playing the game. Yes, some people act like you have to sell your grandma to get those cosmetics, but nope, you just have to play the game. And there is no reason why someone who did not play DBD should be excluded.
Way different from Legacy.
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They're just cosmetics.
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The Hallowed Blight event is close to having Legacy skins.
Legacy skins were given to loyal player base during that time for the crazy grind.
It's the same way when you pre-order a game and is given certain benefits. That you only get when pre-ordering.
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>Legacy was given to players who played the game in a time where nobody knew if it would survive. With more Grind, less BP Offerings and so on.
Legacy were distributed after Halloween chapter release, which made pretty clear that the game will last long.
>Event Exclusives where obtainable by playing the game. Yes, some people act like you have to sell your grandma to get those cosmetics, but nope, you just have to play the game. And there is no reason why someone who did not play DBD should be excluded.
Legacy could be owned by playing the game aswell, what a surprise. Yes, it took more time, but let's be honest, if you wanted to grind BP in DbD 2016, you could do it with a little effort by some abuses, which I'm not going to name here, but nobody was banned for them for sure. Also, first bloodhunt or double BP which made getting those last prestiges hit even easier.
Once again, you are having the same hypocritical mindset: legacy is different because it took more to get than other ex-exclusive skins, but in the end we all keep sticking into that "exclusivity" like it matter much, which actually doesn't, which was shown by throwing event skins and buyable exclusives to everyone.
Be consistent, people. I (and many others) wouldn't have said anything if exclusive skins weren't given out in the first place, yet they were. So let's be consistent here.
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Yet it wasn't a preorder. DbD was up for a while and has already proven itself to be something good. Also, weren't people who attended PAX events or farmed event skins "loyal" enoigh? Or they are different and not worthy of having their skins kept to them? Or legacy owners are better? Then why do BHVR even mention "equality" in their posts?
That's hypocrisy, no matter what words you use to justify it.
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Console players should get them at devotion 10
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Honestly, if people buy legacy these days, they just deserve to get scammed. It is very easy to track fake legacy profiles - even private ones, because many people report owners out of jealousy and devs can easily check whether it has been earned rightfully or not. The money made by selling real legacy profiles could not be taken into comparison with the money made with the sale of exclusive skins. Also, I've never heard of anyone buying legacy accounts anyway. People feeling like they need the skin that desperately would just as well hack it, I am certain.
Also, I don't think you can compare it to event items that easily. Of course people worked hard for those, some of the challenges were anything but easy. Still, legacy was given to players who believed in the game from the very beginning - before its big boom. The event items too show the commitment of many players and therefore I feel like players should be proud to own those instead of insisting on completing an incompletable collection.
If anything, enabling people to acquire legacy right now would be hypocrisy.
In advance: yes, I did earn legacy for several characters. However, I lost it due to the loss of progress issue a few years ago without the chance of a refund.
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>If anything, enabling people to acquire legacy right now would be hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy is entirely devaluing one skins and keeping that value to other for no reason and not making legacy available, when other exclusives were given out for nothing. And please, don't start with that "loyalty' nonsense again, in that case skins wouldn't have been distributed in the first place.
>Honestly, if people buy legacy these days, they just deserve to get scammed.
People who tried buying any exclusives even before that november post deserved to be scammed, yet bhvr did give these skins to everyone.
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As someone who started playing after legacy got released (2018). Legacy should only be available to those who purchased the game before legacy's release if there is an issue on BHVR's end. And to those who want legacy who don't fit that metric. You don't deserve it (including me 😀).
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Na, I think the devs showed great caring by giving these skins to everyone. Otherwise, people would still pay insane amounts of money to get their hands on a golden Feng and this game would become a bigger deal for any sort of dubious trading.
Since they can't really check on whether people rightfully obtained their exclusives or just bought them, I'd classify this to be more of a practical measure. Unlike legacy.
This makes sense as legacy isn't even the only exclusive skin in the game right now, but all of them are just very hard to come by (in a non-legal way anyway).
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I could understand giving out the pax exclusives because they required a steam code. This created a lot of grief because people were getting scammed out of a lot of money for those skins, so I support them giving those out (even if my own exclusives aren't special anymore).
Giving out items that could only be earned, like legacy and through grinding special events (like the howling grounds event) is a betrayal to those who took the time to earn them. I was not okay with the fact that they gave out those event cosmetics to everyone and I hope they never do the same with legacy.
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I don't care they rerelease them or not I wouldn't use them I play on ps4 and I play late on steam so I don't have them but Exclusives are dumb.
one more thing legacy make you easy target.
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>I was not okay with the fact that they gave out those event cosmetics to everyone and I hope they never do the same with legacy.
They shouldn't have started giving out such cosmetics in the first place, yet they did. It would be fair to make ALL exclusive cosmetics available, not stop half way through because "tHiS wOulD bE uNfAiR tO lEgAcY oWnErS". For some reason that didn't stop them from giving out event cosmetics, so what differs legacy from them?
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Currently Legacy isn't the only exclusive locked to PC.
For example you have the death garden masks.
However considering they now have a redeem code function in the store for all platforms it is possible for them to distribute some of those exclusives.
Personally I can't really understand and the issue with Legacy but I guess that's probably because nobody I really play has it as they were released after Legacy was a thing.
I do however feel disappointed about the event cosmetics being given away now you didn't have to go out of your way to earn them but they were nice little badge that said hey I was playing a game around this time which isn't really the case now.
Voiced my opinion on exclusives before. I'm fine with time-based or event-based exclusives as long as every platform has access to them it's when you start locking things behind platforms that it starts becoming a problem
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Love how the people who want legacy to stay exclusive dont have it 😂😂
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I have to admit that seeing the event cosmetics being given to everyone was really annoying. If that hadn't happened I would be less annoyed about legacy skins, but legacy was such a short time period. I got the game within a week of first hearing about it in late 2016 and was crushed when I learned that I missed out on even trying for legacy by a mere week or two. I honestly don't care at this point, I want to earn those skins, but I can't. I'll never cheat them because I like feeling like I earned things myself, but not being able to have them because of timing and then everyone gets event skins that they didn't participate in leaves me very dissatisfied.
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I missed out on the 4th anniversary hat for claud and Ds.. how do you thin i feel?
I thought they said they would not make exclusives again.
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Tbh having to farm to devotion 10 to get 1 legacy outfit seems perfectly fine and shows EVEN MORE dedication than it was to P3 on the old blood webs so tbh that seems perfectly fair.
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I lost my death garden mask, I had it a while ago, after a patch I don't anymore.
But I think the reason why people don't want legacy to be free when they had to go through the annoying old bloodwebs.
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I would like the legacy to return, but as well they think it is very difficult to achieve. 5 devotion for a set, and for new killers and survivors. I want my Kate legacy
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Yeah they definitely made a bad decision with releasing all event skins and no legacy skins. Work was involved for earning both. So make either both remain exclusive or both unlocked.
They will check this topic soon.
Greetz
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Exactly my thoughts. They shouldn't have started making exclusives available, but if they started, they need to make all exclusives available so that would be fair to everyone.
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I just wish there was a console way since we didnt get the chance.
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While I don’t even want the Legacy cosmetics, giving the event cosmetics out for free was really a bad move. It’s like my time investment during the event was nothing for them but those holy legacy owners can’t be touched whatsoever.
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Don't forget that when people can't get event/pax cosmetics on other platforms, it is enough to give them out, but when legacy is PC exclusive, they are deaf and blind.
I haven't mentioned that in my post, since I don't have any concrete proofs to that, but I'll make sure to add more if I find another devs' posts where they mention how "you got to use them earlier" and "it's unfair to the other platforms".
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You do realize its just different colored pixels, right?
There are more important things to deal with. Chill, bruh.
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I think you misunderstood what I meant by I don't understand the issue around Legacy.
I know why it's exclusive I understand the reason why they don't want to give it out however personally I don't understand the massive amount of desire of wanting Legacy.
As I said the characters I main are either licensed or original but they came out after Legacy was a thing.
Survivors
Min
Cheryl
Yui
Killers
Amanda
Legion
Sexy Triangle Man
Demi Logorgon
so I have no real want of legacy
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More hypocrisy
He basically said, they had to do it because "leaving those people behind is not an option" (people who lost event cosmetics).
Somehow this doesn't apply to people who lost legacy lmao.
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They're not bringing legacy back
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If they are so unimportant, then it wouldn't be such a big deal to make it available for everyone?
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"Anyone who could play could earn event cosmetics".
Well, event cosmetics were given in a time where the game was buggy af and unbalanced. Ruin was a threat and DS was broken. We played through it.
And the exact same is true for legacy.
Doesnt matter if it was early days or if the game may have failed. They didnt earn legacy yo save the game. They did it by JUST playing. Like event cosmetics.
It's the same exact thing. Did one require more time? Absolutely. Are they different situations? No way in hell.
Besides, most people WITH legacy these days are hackers, most of the old players quit.
And even then, at the LEAST give it to people who had an account before the date of change. Ya know, those who were actually eligible.
But then that would be different from the events. Those were given to people who werent playing or supporting the game 3 years ago....
See how this is a circle? Because they're the same thing.
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You're right.
They've just decided not to, so I was suggesting it's a better use of your time to move on.
This feels like trying to argue one's way into getting more Christmas presents.
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I mean, the community complained ruin and nurse away. 🤷♀️
May as well try it again.
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You're correct, it would be a non-issue.
But the devs decided not to, so I was just suggesting it might be a better use of your time to move on.
This feels a little like trying to argue one's way into getting more Christmas presents.
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I honestly forgot about the 4th anniversary skins. They really need to stop making exclusive things unless they plan on reversing the give everyone event cosmetics decision.
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Yeah, but people keep acting like it's totally different story. Such hypocrites
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Probably I misunderstood lol sorry about that.
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The problem is though, is that some people earned legacy and it was taken from them. BHVR has made it clear that they have no way to verify or fix that. Look at any other game company ever and they would have chosen to make legacy available for everyone, or at least tried. Maybe if you had purchased the game during the timeframe legacy was possible, they just give it to you. They have things they can do, but they refuse to because they worry they will give legacy to people who didn't earn it. In my book, that is fine. It's the way the legal system works, it is better to let a guilty person go free than an innocent person go to jail. I also believe it is better to give someone legacy who didn't earn it, then not give legacy to someone who did earn it.
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I guess EA (a game company) would have made those skins available for all?!!?? NOPE EA is all about the money.... not giving things out for free! the thing that most people miss in all of this is the legacy was specific to A CHARACTER, not just the account. the account didn't get legacy for every original character there was, but it was specific. I challenge you to find more than a handful of people that got legacy on all survivors or killers... HELL HOW ABOUT BOTH??? doubt you will find very many. so here is how it worked from my limited knowledge: get to P1, P2 or P3 by X date on a specific character and you get the legacy skin offered. if after that date you were sol!!! woo hoo!!!! can't get it anymore. Now did someone get a P1 jake but a P3 trapper? where is the records? there isn't from what BHVR has said here.
Now look at the Convention skins: they were never available on console, only on steam. Some you just showed up to get, some you did something, what ever but it wasn't like getting the damn legacy cosmetics. so they said we are going to strike a blow to the monitization of their FREE give away codes!!!!! $1000+ for golden feng! I laughed when I saw that myself. so here we are everyone gets it, some people paid a lot of money to people who are not BHVR to get these outfits... they are the ones that loose out lol not the people that dedicated time during a point where the game was broken as hell and honestly surprisingly got out of that!!! lol was funny to see some of tru's vids from then.
so let me see would have to GIVE everyone a skin that was loads of work more so than it is now but leave the meaning still there... nope doesn't work because people like me never played till 2018 or later! I don't deserve the skin just because some had a bug! The other cosemetics? bah! they were free! pick up a code and enter into steam and blamo you got it.. oh i'm a console player I'll sell it for 1000 bucks! yea that's what I will do! lol...
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I like how you mention EA, which is literally voted as the worst company in America almost every year. Try picking any other company that isn't hot garbage like i dunno. Valve, Riot Games, Blizzard. Hell even a mobile gatcha game run by a company called "Capital Games" which is OWNED BY EA will give out free stuff when they mess up.
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Thing is, if those Skins would be made available for everyone (and I mean everyone), they would not be special at all. They are not even looking good.
Personally, I would base it on the Achievements. If someone has the respective Achievements, they should get their Legacy back at least for one Character of their Choice. And honestly, it would not matter at all which character. If someone has gotten a Legeacy 2 Meg and lost it, they can get a Legacy 2 Billy. But you will know from the Achievement that they got at least one Character for Legacy, so they should get this Character.
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Yeah I mean the specifics and timing are different but its 100% the same logic.
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a legacy throwback event would be awesome. Its fair for everyone
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you said pick ANY other GAME company you didn't qualify it... why change it now? lol because I mentioned it, and I'll tell you this you are being a hypocrite to exclude any game company to compare what they would do and make it global... no you are only wanting to whine... but sure lets look at this:
Valve: hey we will ban you for things that someone else did on your account "CRIES! NOOOOO it wasn't me" SURE!!!! they are notorious for making things hard to work with and for making the customers feel unappreciated till THEY want to make them feel like there is a change.... not to mention banning people from their accounts and other single player games just because they made a cheating mistake on another game tooo many times...
riot games... look at what they harboured and then later got to be the heroes by sacking a piece of crap executive....
Blizzard.... STOLE the idea of world of warcraft FROM Everquest when they lured many of their devs away. lol more things to talk about...
so yea you can choose whom to like, my choice of companies is perfectly within your original statement! hahhaha enjoy the crow you need to eat now.
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Now you are commenting on the companies as a whole. I don't care about blizzard stealing everquest. What i care about is that if they screw up, they give me my stuff back and give me the benefit of the doubt.
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Not event, just a permanent feature + legacy rename into "Entity touch" or smth and make people do some grind in order to earn this cosmetics, like special kind of prestige with increased costs on bloodweb or devotion.
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so I can't do what you did? I am the one that has to talk to you by YOUR rules? I followed the rules, read your post, replied to it with an answer that proved your assertion wrong, you then QUALIFIED it. I then showed you that the companies you listed aren't the white knights you have them to be. so no I will not talk with your rules, I will reply to WHAT you post and if you had come back and said: "You know, you made a fair point, but there are probably many others out there that match what i said." I would have said "Fair Point" as well. but no you have to tell me I picked the WRONG company and EVERY OTHER company is better than the one I picked... I showed you that you were wrong. Blizzard technically guilty of industrial espionage and copyright violation (not taken to court thus technically) and valve's miss deeds against it's own customer base and riot's miss deeds against their own employees at the expense of their customers. hmmm my point came across properly and you just don't like that you didn't make the qualification before I replied. lol that's why I'm laughing.
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The people who lost their Legacy during the save error are nevsr getting their legacy back confirmed by BHVR. There was a guy here on the forums who provided multiple screenshot gameplay footage with said legacy set, sent it to BHVR and they told them that they wouldn't be restoring his legacy, there are also quite a few streamers who also lost thier legacy and still haven't gotten it back.
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You are getting really hostile for no reason. I did not comment on the companies as a whole and what they do in other random situations. I specifically am talking about this situation. Imagine this exact problem happened in world of warcraft. Would blizzard just say "######### everyone who might have gotten it cuz we can't verify"? I very much doubt that, they would find some workaround to at least identify people who "probably" got it, and give people the benefit of the doubt.
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in this situation they wouldn't do a damn thing why? they aren't behavior and have nothing to do with behavior. you are comparing apples to oranges. I'm not hostile, you are the one that made me feel like I was supposed to follow your rules for a conversation, so I pushed back against your rules. I made my points, they are valid, you still haven't even acknowledged that, and you then changed the "options" AFTER I answered. you are the one that is feeling hostility? I wonder why, I'm just laughing because i am enjoying your floundering trying to make me feel BAD about my correct comment.
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