Facecamping Bubba is Uncounterable
Before this thread is spammed with ''do gens'' I ask you to read my post.
Let's imagine a scenario, 4 SWF vs a camping Bubba.
1- First chase ends just as the first gen is finished.
2- Bubba hooks and is facecamping, so the hooked survivor tells his teammates to rush gens.
3- A survivors takes 120 seconds on the hook to die.
4- A gens takes 80 seconds so that means 3 gens were done.
5- As the last gens is done Bubba is free again, but both NOED and Bitter Murmur activate and Bubba now has 10 seconds of aura reading plus NEOD.
This means Bubba can AT LEAST guarantee a 2k.
And this is if he goes against a really good SWF team.
Yes, all Bubbas who want to facecamp run both BM and NOED, these two aren't unusual perks to be equipped by them. Also, Monstrous Shrine and Blood Warden show up from time to time to guarantee even less time to finish gens.
What is the counter to this?
No, They don't care that they depipped
No, they don't find this boring and enjoy getting 3k-4k every match.
No, ''doing gens'' isn't the answer and you can't ''do bones'' either since there isn't enough time, and with Bitter Murmur is a guarantee 2k.
Imagine this with Solo Que? EZ 4k.
Imagine if the first chase ended early
Imagine if all 3 remaining survivors managed to finish all gens but all of them were on the last gen and NOED activates with Bitter Murmur
No need to imagine since Otz once made a stream about this and all of this happened and he got ez 4ks
Solution?
I believe hooks should change location if Bubba is facecamlping just like Pyrimad Head, maybe if all gens are finished it then hooks don't teleport for him.
What other solutions do you think can solve this?
Comments
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Possible Solutions:
-Borrowed Time
-Giving the killer player a death threat
-Run Kindred. It won't save you, but at least it gives your team a benefit as long as you are camped.
And that's all I can come up with. But why is the killer player living in the past? Camping with Bubba is an outdated strategy.
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Noed facecamping bubba will probably be fixed in the future peanits mentioned a while ago.
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Generally the Facecamp Bubba build is as follows:
- Iron Grasp
- Agitation
- Insidious
- Mad Grit/Monstrous/NOED, depending on the flavor of bubba
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-Borrowed Time
Doesn't work for the unhooker though
-Giving the killer player a death threat
What???
-Run Kindred. It won't save you, but at least it gives your team a benefit as long as you are camped.
Read the op
I'm sorry but who is Peanits?
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I do not see the need to "solve this", honestly. Playing against a face camping bubba is rare in my experience. Even more rare should be players playing like this ALL THE TIME, just because it is super boring to do so game after game. It may be funny for some rounds, but I assure you there won't be many players doing this in every match. So it's more or less a non-issue, currently.
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Ive been playing dbd for little over 2 years. Let me ask you something.
How many times have you come across this kind of camping bubba?
Ive literally never came across this kind. Ive dealt with basement bubbas. Ive dealt with speedy bubbas. Hell one time i went against a speedy stealth bubba. Got yoinked off a gen a few times by this one. But never a bubba as you described
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Friendly reminder that basement bubbas are going to camp as long that this strategy works and foolish, altruistic survivors are going to fall for it despite the fact it's going to fail.
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BT doesn't help the unhooked either. The new chainsaw speed is enough to catch up with just 2 stacks, with the chainsaw movement speed addon you even just need one stack, first and third swing will hit
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Yeah its not great. I had a similar situation and made a post about it.
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Can you link me to the post where he talks about Bubba and facecamping?
Enough to make me write a thread about it, your experience =/= mine and does not change the fact that this ''start'' is uncounterable
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Friendly reminder to read my post before posting
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Sometimes, you get lucky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v1sq9VaFR8&list=PLC2rL4BtEvpvPsN1GpNzs7kCbbry0_e7o
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Yeah and PatBrutal also is quite active around the forums. The other two I rarely see, especially Ribanne, is s/he new? Anyway, I wish community managers were more active around here.
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Do sweat to much!
They're unable to get dates IRL as well!
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Only a good SWF can counter it, been there, done that, flashlight and BT, the guy with flashlight blinds Bubba and the guy with BT unhooks the persona, that's the only real strat that's worked for my team against a rank 1 camping GOOD Bubba. Hope this helps
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He might get a 2k running a build like that but he isn't going to pip and hes going to get <10k bloodpoints. The game already harshly punishes these players but not letting them progress when they do it.
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What you do is run bt and force him to rev too much where he tantrums then you get the save while he has no charges
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I wonder... maybe MoM, BT, Unbreakable, Soul Guard? the biggest issue with face camping bubba is his one hit down, so maybe if you can tank that hit while unhooking with MoM, then BT applied to the unhooked, and since bubba will likely go after the saved one that gives you time for Unbreakable to pick you up and soul guard to give yourself another tanked hit
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Do bones
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The issue isn't about camping when survivors are hook rushing, it's about Bubbas with noed and bitter murmur who want to facecamp as soon as they get a hook knowing that it works %100 of the time.
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I'm a little confused, did the Bubba in that original post win or not? 2 kills with hardly any endgame score is a loss by most measures. (I don't consider pips a useful measure of winning or losing, but it also would probably result in a loss of a pip.) How is that a "win"?
The only way that strategy wins is if the survivors run in for the rescue early. If they don't, Bubba loses because 1-2 kills with hardly any points is a loss.
P.S. The times in the original post are assuming no toolkits or buffs for the gens. 80 seconds is the maximum, it's likely the actual times would be slightly faster.
P.P.S It also seems to be discounting the chase time. It takes 120 seconds to die on hook but you also have to take into account the 10 second to carry them to a hook and 20-30 seconds to down them. So it's more like 150-160 seconds of generator time while the Bubba chases, downs, hooks and camps one survivor. 160 seconds is literally enough time for three survivors to do all five gens. (80 seconds solo each on three gens, then 80 more seconds each on two other gens solo while the third survivor cleanses or goes for a rescue.)
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The general idea to have hooks change location like cages is good to counter facecamping.
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Please be mature while discussing the topic.
That's why I'm here in hope devs or anyone of you in this community can help find a solution :(
I suggested in the op if he gets the same PH treatment in that hooks switch places if he facecamps them before all the gens are done.
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sorry but that just works if the buba is pretty much brainless. thats not gonna work against someone above decent level. if that worked that buba doesnt even know how to properly facecamp wich is a shame. and brings shame to the rest of buba face campers community. im not part of them btw, but still that hasnt counterplay, now is a little bit easier to get it because buba just cant rev the chainsaw forever, but you can still do fakes and also they wont have enough time to get it and even if u get it new buba can cover big distances with addons so he will catch up even if u have BT on, unless there are pallets or windows to use... wich may or not be the case especially if u are on bassement that has literally 0 counterplay if he brigns you to the bassement he can even BLOCK the doors with all his thiccnes so you wont pass it doesnt matter how hard you try.
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I provided the best outcome against this strat and 2k is the minimum Bubba will get against a 4 SWF, and that if he doesn't get an early down and the 3 survivors were separated when the last gen popped. Imagine what will happen in every other situation/
Otz made a stream about this a while ago and he got 4ks with every match.
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Where?
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Well to be fair Otz can get 4ks using no perks or meme builds on any killer, he's a god among killers.
Also you replied while I was editing my post above, but your times are a bit off. You forgot to include the chase times. It would be something like 20-30 seconds to get the down and 10 seconds to carry to hook followed by 120 seconds of camping = 150-160 seconds. In 160 seconds the three survivors can literally do 5 gens to within a few seconds of completion (80 seconds for the first three solo, a few seconds for two to move to other gens and do the other two solo after another 80 seconds.)
I will say this, though, I think Bubba is a strong killer in chases now since his buff. He wasn't THAT bad before so buffing him made him pretty solid. Doesn't have much to do with camping per se but it does help him get that down or two to camp.
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My issue is if he gets an early down, also Bitter Murmur shows the aura of all survivors for 10 seconds once the final gen is done. I saw him abandon a hooked survivor to down 2 who were going for the exit gate, knowing that I was very far to be able to reach the already hooked survivor.
And about my timings, yes every match will be different but even with the best outcome he will secure 2 kills, unless survivors manage to pull off a flashlight save or unhook themselves with ds, unbreakable, and soul guard.
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There are plenty of killers who can play like this and get a 2k, it’s just a very small portion of players who actually bother playing like that.
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He played like 7 games. He didn't 4k every game. I don't remember it all but he had at least a 2K in there. Some of the 4ks were the survivors hook bombing for the save instead of just leaving when they had the chance or literally just trolling in one of the games.
Literally the only reason it works is because Survivors are too stupid to just leave.
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Since you remember it, remember when the survivors gen rushed him and he still managed to get a 4k thanks to bitter murmur and noed?
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"And this is if he goes against a really good SWF team"
No thats just insanely wrong. Thats what happens when you go against 4 good solos or a standard 4man SWF. What happens if Bubba goes against a good 4 man SWF and decideds to Face camp? He either gets 0 kills or only 1. Because after the first down its not 1 gen that gets done. Its 3 gens and now they only have 2 gens and the exit gates. Good survivors can keep a killer like Bubba occupied a long time, especially when he is running 2 perks that wont help him at all before the game is over. Bitter murmur does ######### all for a Camping Bubba. Besides at the end game. Same With Noed. Insidious might be used to help him vs 4 solos but beyond that nope.
So yes the counter is still just do gens. Why do I know this? Because I tried it out since people keep whining about it. Yes vs solos you are guaranteed 2k at least, unless you are unlucky and the guy you decided to go for is a slippery eel or the tiles spawned in the survivors favor. But vs even mediocre 4man SWF you aren't guaranteed anything with this playstyly. It might be 4k, but most likely its only gonna be 1k at best.
TL;DR Git gut and do gens
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Yeah but he also didn't ######### 4k every match and a number of those 4k games could've been easily 1 or 2K.
Camping's success relies solely on how bad the survivors.
Also you're referencing someone who's commonly heralded as the best killer in the game. Even Otz and Tru3 will say really no killer is viable against a top team except for Nurse/Spirit. Throw Otz in there against a top SWF team with his old camping Bubba and he'd probably maybe get 1K if he could even get a down.
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Lopped for 3 gens? Are you serious? This is a typical scenario for you? 3 effing gens?
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facepalm
ok.... what about people who already have all the perks on all the characters that they care about?
What about the people who got face camped. they aint getting any points
What about the people who didnt get face camped. no chases and no healing means no pip and no bloodpoints.
What about having a good game fro both sides? standing around staring at the hook isnt really playing the game, nor is hanging on a hook for 2 minutes.
What about the solo queues?
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Oh, yeah, I'm not disputing he'll probably get 2 downs if he plays it right, 1 at worst if they pull off a save on someone. But that's definitely still a loss, he'll almost certainly have a low score (maybe not as low as the poor survivor he killed first but still really low) and also not a win by the 3-4 kill standard either (or the pip standard for people who care about those since he probably would lose a pip too.)
On a tangent this sort of discussion makes me wish Dead by Daylight actually had an official web page with dynamic stats you could look up for average points and kills per game for all the killers or survivors or for perk usage, etc. Aside from them posting a stat blog every six or nine months we don't really have any solid numbers to go by when talking about things like, for instance, how good is Bubba doing nowadays compared to other killers? It's all kind of guess work without being able to look at actual statistical data.
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Lol what do bones than he gets 1 kill instead of 2 if u get downed by a camping leather face you just need to git gud.
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Man face camping with bubba is just dumb now he is actually viable. Plus he is funner to play regularly now too than he was before. No respect for facecamping bubbas.
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-Borrowed time is the safest possible option if you want to unhook
-It's a joke
-Do you know what Kindred does?
-Peanits is a dev who sometimes interacts with people on the forum
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I know you’re most likely joking, but no, we shouldn’t send death threats to other players.
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This is an excellent question. If anything were implemented to diminish Bubba’s ability to defend a hook, bum rushing of the hook would increase because “what’s he gonna do about it??”
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He can move during the tantrum
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There are various intuitive ways.
One I like and worked is deliverance, BT and DS.
Obviously you need Deliverance activated but a bubba was face camping so I unhooked, got downed and bubba hit the unhooked guy but they had BT so went back for me and back to face camping.
I just Deliveranced in his face, got downed again but he picked me up and do DS and escaped.
I suppose for a 4th perk could use unbreakable (if they think you have DS) or dead hard when you deliverance.
Above is situational but worked for me 😃
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I could deal with face camping bubba before, but now that he can curve around anything, he's a nightmare.
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The last time they tried to fix camping, it was abused by survivors in a way that made it extremely OP, similar to how old legion would moonwalk to make deep wounds go down while still chasing you.
I do agree that camping and tunneling need to be fixed with a gameplay mechanic, but it needs to be done in a way that isn't exploitable, or, if it is, the game is rebalanced around in order to make it not awful for the killer.
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With the buff, not even the survivor with endurance can escape. Good thing, because that tell people a lesson, to not count on your cheap 2nd chance perks.
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Another point no one has mentioned yet, is that - at red ranks - as a survivor it is absolutely essential to engage the killer. You get horrendously penalized in terms of both bloodpoints and match points for strictly doing objectives. Engaging Bubba favors the killer, but engaging Bubba that has equipped perks specifically for basement play is automatic suicide.
I cannot count how many times I actually managed both Iridescent Lightbringer and Unbroken only to end up with 12-13k bloodpoints at the end, because my interaction with the killer was minimal. Typically this scenario would unfold as such: you spawn in a far off corner of the map by yourself(like autowreckers for example), right next to a generator (ex. shed gen). If you jump right on it, and the killer does not get to you before the 45% mark, the gen is yours and you will get it done. Furthermore, if the killer is not nearby, you will likely not cross paths afterwards because they will either encounter another survivor on the way or already be moving in opposite directions/ towards another gen (ex. gen popped by a 2-3 other survivors). If you get to second closest generator and start working on it, half of the time another survivor will engage the killer in a chase in the meantime, often times allowing you to even finish that 2nd gen by yourself. (At this stage, with 3 gens done already you may have 215 lightbringer emblem points for gold, but only 2500 BPs earned). With 3 gens done, 4th likely about to pop as well, your hand is forced to start hunting the killer, to not blank out evader completely, and also diversion points for Iridescent Lightbringer. Getting hooked may cost you one point in Unbroken but that gets balanced out by Evader and LB bonus. It also tends to make your teammates content as it allows them to get a unnook/heal Benevolent points.
Now, Bubba - in its current incarnation, and combined with Insidious et. al for Basement play - can move into the basement right at the start and stay there until someone comes by, because it is not possible for every survivor on a team of 4 red ranks to get enough lightbringer points for anything above gold: 4 single , 1 co-op repair always leaves at least one odd player out; they may try to get to another gen for points but they will be competing against a co-op gen with a head start. 5 totems may be up for grabs, but unless cleansed earlier, and NOED equipped there is a huge risk associated with not getting at least on one of the exit gates.
So to sum it all up (and here I will assume that gens got shared somewhat evenly and everyone got Gold, even if there may often be one odd man out with only silver after 5 gens pop):
3 (Lightbringer) + 4 (Unbroken) + 1 (Benevolent) + 0 (Evader) = 8
Ranks 1-4 safety requirement = 9
Now Bubba, sitting in the basement, knows that every survivor at red will de-pip across the board if they all simply escape. However, if they get just 1 of the 4 survivors to venture into the basement, they know they got them. It is not possible to escape Bubba that has 3 charges that has the benefit of moving/winding-up first (they will likely be standing still with Insidious, and because thats Bubba basement play). The basement hook will lead to a penalty in Benevolent preventing safety even for purple ranks, and this cycle can doom all 4 survivors if the first hooked survivor does not just cut the cord, when the situation calls for it.
If this type of killer behavior is not a form of holding the game hostage, then I don't know what is. One simple mechanic would be to allow for Benevolent points for every survivor that happens to still be alive when the exit gates are open. Adding +5 Benevolent points for every survivor would get you just enough for Silver but not enough for Gold Benevolent, allowing for safety for survivors, and a massive, massive penalty to every killer attempting this tactic.
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I’m talking about once it ends and he becomes an m1 killer for a few seconds
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Rarity doesn't confer non-issue status.
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