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the solution to DS
its easy the only way we can fix DS whitout nerfing the perk is to buff enduring so the perk can work on DS stun again.
Comments
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Honestly, the only nerf to DS that makes sense is to have it so that if the gates are powered... DS cannot activate. One of the biggest problems DS presents is the "No win Scenario" to killers:
Gates are powered/opened and the Survivor with DS is unhooked and downed within 30 meters of a gate. This only allows the Killer 2 choices:
- Let the survivor crawl out.
- Pick up the survivor, and suffer a 5 second stun while the survivor escapes.
Unless the killer brings in a Mori... this is entirely unfair. TBH, this can also apply to Hatch escapes, but those instances are rare.
Overall, DS's greatest and most infuriating problem is when it completely rewards survivors in the endgame, and there's nothing the killer can do about it. Otherwise, It's actually a pretty balanced perk with (albeit frustrating) counter-play.
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Ds is fine as long as you are changing targets quickly (I'd reccomend bbq and chili for this) you can easily avoid ds. I usually don't get hit with it at all. It's just when you get hit ya kinda get #########
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If someone else is hooked, DS deactivates
If you are in a chase, DS timer pauses
fixed
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What if the person with DS body blocks you when you are chasing another injured survivor?
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If you start working on a generator, unhooking, or opening an exit gate: DS deactivates. Fixed.
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Make it deactivate when you hop on a gen
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The problem with DS for the majority of the killer is when the exit gate are 99% or open.
The other problem is when the killer hook someone else and he start a chase again on a survivor you hook before and maybe when you down him he can still have DS because he got unhook 59 second ago but you think its been over a minute
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This.
Its actually why I choose to tunnel early and mid game. I want that damn perk eliminated from everyone ASAP.
Inversely (and oddly), if there is no Obsession icon, then I don’t tunnel at all.
DS very possible presence actually encourages me personally to tunnel to avoid that exact situation at endgame occurring.
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Oh no survivors have a chance to make trades in end game! this is so bad guys!
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It’s certainly not nice to deal with. The perk is designed to ensure you’re PUNISHED as killer at endgame for NOT having tunnelled at all during the trial before endgame.
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And what's wrong with that? It's just a good end game perk, just like killers have. Did you forget about NOED and Blood Warden, which have very powerful effects only during end game?
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But even those 2 can be circumvented.
Survivors can do something about those 2 perks. Killers can’t do anything about a survivor with DS crawling towards an open exit. They might be lucky to have a mori. But that’s it.
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Survivors can't do anything when they are trapped by Blood Warden while the egc happens. They might be lucky to have a key. But that's it.
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The funny thing is that the DS stun was buffed from 3 to 5 seconds because of Enduring. Then Enduring was nerfed so the interaction no longer mattered, but DS... Wasn't changed at all.
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Yes in a way i just want enduring to work against all stun
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That's like, optimal gameplay for it tbh. Get rid of DS as early as possible, and then you don't have to worry about unwinnable end game scenarios. My boyfriend tunnels off first hook ("Let's see if you have DS" LMFAO) if he gets the chance, and if they DS him, he leaves them alone and switches targets. A stitch in time saves nine, as they say.
And even if sometimes you don't get the chance to do that to a survivor before it reaches end game- half the time, that survivor might have deserved an escape anyway (if you can't really catch a survivor who is superior at the game compared to you as a killer, and then you get lucky at the end with, say, NOED, or an extreme and lethal case of sandbagging, his teammates brave the save, and he DS's out in the end, I'd hardly say it was really broken or unfair- he outplayed most of the game and had his last chance perk on for the end of the game to help ensure he made it out, if that makes sense?).
I don't play killer enough to not have a skewed perspective on it- my own personal experience is that most skilled killers seem to have nearly zero issue playing around DS or minimizing how much DS slows them down. And that's on 4 man SWFs (varying skill levels but usually something like 2 quite adept players and 2 immersive fricks who are maybe not that good at chases). So I wouldn't know if it's really that much of a problem, or if it's one of those things that less-than-stellar killers complain about.
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Add that it also deactivates if they start working on objectives as then they obviously aren't being tunneled. If we add all those things then a paused timer while in chase is totally fine with me as then it's even better for countering tunneling but won't be abused as just a 60 second immunity.
I don't think anyone minds an anti-tunnel perk, they just don't like a 60 second immunity to work on gens/totems etc in their face.
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No its not fine. Too often I down 1, hook and leave. Then when I down a second survivor the very first one comes to me to make the save because they have DS. At that point BOTH targets could have DS. 1 could have DS+BT so either decision hurts me and leaving them both alone isn't an option either. Best part is I wasn't tunneling yet I still get punished by an anti tunnel perk.
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The solution to DS is killers learning how to play around DS. It needs a buff if anything.
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wow you hit the nail on the head there.
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Slug make then waste unbreakable if they have it that's one survivor off gens and one mending
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4 "wasted" Unbreakables is 4 times you slugged and got zero pressure out of it. Aka the gens are done now.
It's like telling them to just eat 4 DS's and now they're "wasted". Aka 4 DS hits where you didn't get pressure from your time spent downing them means the gens are now done.
Against good survivors there isn't time to be wasted like that.
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Just give the killer a skillcheck to shake off the stun twice as fast and if they miss it they get the normal stun time , then when you hit a skillcheck and outplay the survivor immediately they have no ground to stand on because all they did was hit a skillcheck to escape and you did the same to make it less reliable for them, but idk it's probably not a good idea
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DS is a free escape during endgame, with literally nothing the killer can do to stop it. The only small hope would be the surv. messing the skill check up, but that usually does not happen.
Noed does not give you a free sacrifice. You still have to find, hit and hook them. If they are not on death hook, they even can get out (e.g. with DS). And thats only when the totem still stands.
Bloodwarden can give you "free sacrifices" due to EGC killing them. But that is way, way, way harder to pull of than a DS hit. And it's also obvious, since you need to fool around while the EGC timer is running.
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If you slug 2 people and go for the 2 others that's 2 people who have to heal. I'm saying eating unbreakable is better than eating ds.
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If you got in that situation in the first place the survivors weren't playing well.
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if someone else is hooked ds deactivates, if you do a gen ds deactivates
if you are in a chase OR on the ground ds timer pauses
30 second timer
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I just hate it when its combos with unbreakable.
Creates a situation where your kinda damned if you do damned if you don’t and that’s a little unfun imo.
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Novel idea: don’t let survivors finish gens? I’m not saying that to sound like a dick. If you’re routinely getting to EGC, perhaps figure out where you can improve
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I just hate ds when the egc starts that where it broken.
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I don't think this perk will ever be changed and honestly I don't blame them if it doesn't. I was playing yesterday solo and most my games no one had DS and when the killer wasn't running a obsession perk.... man they had no problem tunneling. This isn't me complaining, play how you want. However, I can see why devs don't wanna change it because people who say they don't "tunnel" well that's fine, but there are a whole hell of a lot of people that do.
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And then we will go back to buffing DS, because killers will begin to tunnel all survivors one by one to death, ez life.
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No offence but that's a bad idea.
"If someone else gets hooked = ds deactivates"
Yesterday a Bubba camped me. A teammate unhooked me (I'm solo so no Borrowed Time) just before I went into struggle. However Bubba mowed us both down before I was even able to run so he camped and tunneled me.
Obviously he hooked Claudette first. Now my DS would have been deactivated if DS worked like you propose even though he straight up camped and tunneled me (he kept tunneling me even after eating the ds).
"if you're in a chase, the ds timer pauses"
'Cocky' survivors would abuse it to chase the killer after their first hook allowing them to literally harrass them making it less of an anti-tunnel perk.
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I propose banning every killer that tunnels or camps.
No need for DS meta after they're all gone.
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My suggestion would be to make DS visible when active (something in their hand maybe?), reduce the timer to somewhere between 20-30 seconds, and make the timer pause to somewhere around 60 seconds overall if chased or slugged. Touching a gen makes DS' timer go down at two or three times the rate while working on it.
The synergy between Unbreakable and DS probably should be looked at if they don't want to touch DS. Maybe even putting them in a category like the exhaustion perks.
They could also look into making Borrowed Time base kit for all survivors to alleviate hook camping and nerf DS but it would just lead to a playstyle of the unhooked throwing themselves into the killers face to body block even more than they do now which is really obnoxious. Maybe making the killer able to walk through people with BT active along with making it base would be a good solution?
Just spitballing random thoughts here, I'm sure these don't cover some edge cases that the usual 4 man groups will abuse but I think it will be better than current design.
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And then you have a survivor jump in a locker in your face or instantly rush in to hook save.
DS should deactivate when survivor does anything that progresses the game or jumps in a locker or when other survivor gets hooked.
In chase make it pause. If survivor with DS is downed he will still get safety net of 60 seconds during which other survivors may attempt to save him so it does prevent tunnelling(as you can't rehook) and if you keep chasing the guy off the hook he'll always have DS up as you down him.
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Some still do, even when no one is running DS.
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Although this is in fact what I do, I never thought of it this way, but your point makes sense.
I guess comparatively speaking it would be like if a survivor finally finished a repair of a gen only to find it resets itself to zero progress.
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I don't know. Why would someone dive right into one of the strongest defensive killers in the game without a second though?
I don't doubt that it's unfun to be camped, but sometimes I question whatever happened to making (or even recognizing) safe saves or punishing camping?
I do believe that DS is a necessary evil, but there has to be some limit to it so it isn't "for 1 minute, do whatever you want, where you want". Also, If someone gets farmed without BT, should the killer be punished for it, because in that situation, you weren't tunneled. Your teammate made a bad play.
Post edited by WeenieDog on0 -
Basically the same, except even worse because the killer is on the time crunch, not the survivors.
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No idea why people forgot this
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I usually play well enough to not get into EGC, at least not with all four, so no worries. I can still point out that the effect of DS is busted when the gates are (nearly) opened, right?
I was responding to someone else, who argued that DS is equally strong during end game as typical killer end game perks (noed or bloodwarden). Which I disagree with, DS is way stronger, since it nearly always allows you to escape freely, as long as you hit the skillcheck. Apart from the skill check, you need not do anything to get the effect, the effect is universal, as long as you still have it when hooked.
With Noed, it must remain active, you must find and hit someone, get them to a hook which MAYBE sacrifices him. So there's a big IF, but for sure no guaranteed kill. Sure there are instances where Noed carries hard and turns a 0k into 4k. But thats really rare, and requires some heavy blunders from the survivors. Noed is just not capable to constantly grant you more sacrifices, unlike DS which nearly always grants you an escape during end game.
Bloodwarden is even weaker than noed. First of all, survivors often 99 the gates, so you can't trigger it until opening the gate yourself, and just open it when all can get out. So there's a good chance you do not even get its effect at all. Even if its active, you need something like noed to really fasciliate it (like downing all four near an open gate). If the survs are really all together, that is. And EVEN THEN the time usually is not enough to hook more than two people, so the others can crawl out. The only way to turn a 0k to 4k with bloodwarden is activating it late enough that the entity auto-sacrifices all due to the timer. But this requires you to play in a special, recognizable way (slugging without reason / chasing an injured without hitting) so the time gets by until you can activate bw. Aware players will recognize that and leave before you can hook. Thats also far away fomr the universal free escape DS can provide you.
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