Anyone else feels freddy was overbuffed?
He has been one of my killer mains for a long time but i've gotta say the games where i do play him are pretty easy as well as when i go against him he just has more to help carry him than most other killers. From what i observe every killer is either good at anti loop or gen pressure or they're good in chases. Freddy has gen pressure with his teleportation and he has anti loop with his fake pallets and blood puddles. He also has the sleep mechanic which adds free thanatophobia if you use the right add on which will stack with more survivors being asleep and you can stack with the slow perks which forces you to run to the other side of the map to wake up if you don't want to alert him of your location to wake up or just start being put to sleep right away again. To top it all off his power combos really well with perks like thrilling tremors and surveillance . I really feel he was overbuffed. I think he really would've been fine with just the sleep timer and gen teleportation but he really didn't need blood puddles and fake pallets.
I don't really expect him to get nerfed or have any of these removed from him but i just wanted to know if any other people felt the same way.
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Freddy to me is the gold standard of how strong all the M1 killers should be. So no, I think he's pretty balanced.
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He can do everything very well as you say.
I would not remove his snares, but nerf them quite a bit so the slow duration is shorter and not as intense.
Fake pallets are fine tho, they are actually weak compared to snares in my opinion.
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I dont know if 80% killrate should be the gold standard or can be called pretty ballanced.
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I would give him some small penalty for placing snares and pallets, he can just spam them without any draw back, so maybe like slow down or attack cooldown could be nice, just something.
EDIT: Also one more thing I would do, I would remove the fall a sleep timer for Survivors, so Freddy actually must hit Survivors to get them into Dream World, but with this change his Dream World would have need to be buffed or it should be harder to wake up from.
I think he just does have so much going for him, like stealth, map pressure, chase pressure with snare and pallets, he counters borowed time...
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Those stats are near worthless for measuring balance. In reality he isn't actually that high.
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He wasn’t overbuffed for beginner players/ intermediate players.
Players with 1000 - 2000+ hours, yeah, that’s plenty of experience as killer for a buffed Freddy to become lethal to the extent of overpowered in the hands of said skill set... especially with perks and add ons, and even against SWFs. That level of expertise tends to decimate non swf pretty smoothly.
...that’s jus imo, many may disagree.
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Freddy used to be my favorite killer to play as. I don't think he's as powerful as most people believe, but I do think he could use a partial nerf. Allow me to explain:
First off, I think the reason most people hate Freddy is that he's so easy to exploit by weaker killer players. Sort of like bad killers facecamping with Bubba. Everyone hates that, but that only makes the player bad, not the killer they're playing. I've never played Forever Freddy because he is objectively the worst Freddy. Thankfully they've nerfed the crap out of his slowdown addons. They're basically worthless junk at this point.
As far as his sleep mechanic, I don't think it's an especially powerful mechanic as it really only makes you susceptible to his traps. As I've said, his slowdown addons were nerfed into obscurity. People complain about his 'terror radius' while asleep (it's actually a lullaby) and how it negates BT, but any stealth killer can negate BT and Freddy's lullaby means he can't use any perks that alter or remove his terror radius. Also, if you want to bomb the hook for a BT save just wake up first.
As for his teleportation, I think it's the absolute best part of Freddy. It's the thing I never want to see changed. Yes, the BBQ/POP combo gives you some of the best gen defense in the game, but keep in mind that he has a 60 second cooldown after he teleports. It's not a power he can just spam. But even better than teleporting to gens and POP'ing them are the mindgames you can play with him. I can't even tell you the number of times I've struggled to catch a really good survivor, seen their aura on BBQ, teleported behind them, and walked straight up to them from behind for a free down. Or, hook someone, fake a teleport, then watch which way survivors run with BBQ.
Finally, his traps. These are the things that I would nerf. Survivors get a bit histrionic about his snares, saying that all you have to do is spam them for automatic downs. That's only true against survivors who try to keep running the same loop against an anti-loop killer, and even then you do actually have to put some thought into your trap placement. Not a ton, I'll admit, but - y'know - some. Certainly more thought than the survivors are putting into looping the same pallet over and over again. The changes I would make are to give him a bit of slowdown while he places them - like Clown used to have - and add a bigger telltale so that survivors being chasedd can see where he's putting them.
And that's it. Sorry for the wall of text. Now savage me with your criticisms.
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I'm no Freddy main, but I think he's fine as is.
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Ah okay, so can you send me a link to your statistics please? The reality statistics
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He can be very oppressive, especially with certain perks, but quite honestly, all killers should be.
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Way overbuffed...
He is no comparison to all other killers.
He literally has multiple powers bundled into one.
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Playing efficiently and acknowledging the severity of the situation is a well off way to go against Freddy. Staying awake by either teammates or using the clocks is a sure way to go against most of his add-ons and his power. The match can be prolonged a little bit more because of said add-ons, perks like PGTW and his anti-loop power but he is nowhere near overpowered/broken like Spirit's forced 50/50 chases.
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He is pretty balanced until you get dedicated from across a pallet.
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Logical reasoning works better than sarcasm if you'd like a real conversation.
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Freddy's only good because he has all those things combined. If you remove his mobility, he becomes worse clown, if you remove his puddles he becomes powerless M1 killer chase wise. The passive sleeping is nice but people overestime how much impact it actually has. There are so many ways to wake up that it's not really hard to stay awake as long as you want to.
I don't think some very slight nerfs would hurt him too much but nothing larger then slight number nerfs. We want good killers so that there is diversity, nefing freddy is horrible decision. Again, having strong killers is good for DBD, if anything more killers should be around his power level.
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Yeah those do feel bad. That's more of an issue with the dedicated servers though.
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Freddy is a very good killer but doesn't not op or over buffed. The best thing about him is that he's easy to pick up and do well with without having to master his ability.
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His power does everything, and it does everything for him. Everything about his power is passive and requires no thought whatsoever. He's a brainless, unfun, infuriating example of how not to make a good Killer.
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"dedicated from across a pallet"
huh?
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?
Excuse me but it was you who said he is in reality different then the 80% Killrate from those statistics.
Do you think those statistics are fake? Or that they feel different then 80% killrate?
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His blood pools should be removed
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...letting him be a killer without a power and only having a preemptive and very telegraphed teleport..? Not a very convincing statement
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Then he shouldn't put me to sleep if I wake up using the clock since one good blood pool placement and it's gg
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Only nerf I think he should get is maybe let BT proc when you're asleep. Otherwise, I think he's fine.
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Why put a question mark and act innocent, that is being quite disingenuous. You were being sarcastic as you know the devs are the only ones with actual data as they can see all the match results.
If you wanted a real and honest response you could simply ask why it is I believe that.
The statistics aren't fake. The problem with them is that there are a myriad of factors that are not taken into account which skew that data tremendously to where it is near worthless to use in terms of measuring balance. That devs realize this as well which is why they also specifically said not to draw any conclusions from the stats as you are doing right here.
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Freddy just gets pressure up too easily imo. The sleep timer should be paused when running, so that only when doing gens or when hiding, pressure is applied
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You know that the last statistics shown about kill rate are about a year old now right?
They are so out of date that they are meaningless to even bring up.
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I think hes too strong. I wish they would just outright rework him again,not just because hes too strong, but also because hes so godamn boring.
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I hardly use his Snares honestly. I mostly use his teleport along with the Ruin/Surveillance synergy which gives me map dominance and results in consistent 3-4ks. I never use add-ons either. He's in a good spot, people just don't know or refuse to play properly against him.
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One good trap placement from Hag/Trapper and it's gg. Imagine Freddy hardly ever being able to use his power because his victims don't fall asleep. That would make him strictly an M1 Killer in chases 90% of the time unless he catches a Survivor on the way to the clock.
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no hes fine as is. he was so weak he could do nothing with his power all killers should be as powerful as what he is. you still have to play well with him. survivors are so used to killers being easy to play against or mess with or no threat. so they are like "freddy op" blah blah. it took years for him to finally get buffed or made to a competent level. all people do cry for killer nerfs. when survivor is easy mode
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If slowdown Freddy weren't a thing I'd agree that he's what most M1 killer should be. The problem with the slowdown perks/add on is that they combine with the "map pressure for nothing" aspect of his power to create a truly tedious killer than any caveman can 4K with.
I do think he was overbuffed in a "we don't know how to make this killer viable so just give him everything aspect". Even the smaller things like him being MORE INVISIBLE THAN WRAITH from a distance to give him a hand in approaching gens is straight up moronic. And that's NOT in the dream world.
This may be a controversial opinion here but I don't belive killers with hilariously low skill ceilings like Freddy should be rivalling Huntress and Nurse in kill rates.
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I agree with you about waking up - survivors should be able to wake each other up at the same speed all game. The devs should be encouraging survivors to keep each other awake since it's so vital to countering Freddy's powers.
I disagree with you about BT. Freddy having a lullaby instead of a TR for sleeping survivors means that they can't use BT - but it also means Freddy can't use any perk that alters or removes his TR.
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On the subject of the alarm clocks. Why did they even bother with that area of his power when there's litearlly no incentive to wake up against snare Freddy? If you're awake you'll have a harder time locating him because the heartbeat isn't directional anyway, just like the lullaby, but he's invisible from a certain distance in the real world and visible in the dream world.
Pallet freddy is the only reason to wake up but pallet freddy is terrible. And you'll ALWAYS lose more time going to wake up than just sticking to a gen, even with slowdown add ons/perks.
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Waking up is pretty easy. Just miss a skill check.
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Right, there are factors. DC, Mori, Maps you name them etc. All those factors also affect any other killer, and on average, every killer has to deal with the same stuff.
Which factor, in your opinion might have any influence that those stats are not valid?
Yes, they are old. Guess what happend meanwhile? Nothing but buffs/changes for killer ... and freddy remained untouched. I doubt the recent year has lowered freddys killrate that much but please proof me wrong.
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Yeah, I usually just wake myself up by failing a skillcheck. Seems like a lot of people forget you can do that. Wastes less time overall, and I don't care about giving away my location because if Freddy wants to come chase me I'm down to clown.
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I think he was overbuffed as a "we the license owners want this guy to sell a lot since he was crap nobody bought" so they made him the pay2win Killer in the game.
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I rarely play Freddy anymore because it’s just ridiculously easy to play him and he’s very very oppressive. Since his rework, I honestly can’t remember not getting a 4k, except 1 game back in Tome 1 (?) trying to do the noed challenge or kill all 4 during EGC, whatever it was.
Thrill, Pop, Discordance, Corrupt. Add ons not needed. Nearly impossible to not get a 4k.
Edit: Freddy is far from being the definition of a “balanced killer.” Anti loop, map pressure, gen slow down from add ons alone, broken lunge animation, counters BT unnecessarily, etc. He only weakens after all gens are powered, which should never happen playing him
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But... the best killer in the game is the Nurse and she's totally free? And so is Huntress, who has been consistently among the top ranks of killers? Pay 2 Win... sheesh.
I think they buffed Freddy because old Freddy (as much as I loved him) had some cartoonishly big weaknesses.
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You are right that many of the factors affect all the killers, not just Freddy. That's why all the kill stats are skewed, it's not just Freddy's. Freddy just happens to be higher than the other because he requires much less skill than some of the other top tier killers to perform well. This is part of why I think slower killers with stronger power like Nurse, Huntress etc are better design as they can be extremely strong but it requires high skill, but that's another topic. I'm just saying Freddy is what the other M1 killers should be, if we're going to have m1 killers.
Hypothetical here, but if the other killers were more realistically around a 1 kill 3 escape ratio and Freddy was at a 2 kill 2 escape ratio would that mean he's too strong? It just means the other ones need to be brought up, which is where I'm going with this.
I could list some other factors skewing the stats as well as the ones you mentioned but it doesn't seem you disagree with me on the factors. I think you're taking issue with why only him?
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ok, except BT. It makes camping Freddy too nasty.
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The game is meant to be balanced around 2 kills, 2 escapes. So, how does that equate to Freddy being “balanced”?
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If you read all my posts in this chat I already answered your question.
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Freddy is a better doctor with better map control/gen pressure. I'll be one of the few people who agrees with you that he's overbuffed.
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Eh, it had been 2 years by that point. The majority of his sales were long past. In fact, by the time he was reworked the rights had reverted to the original owners who seem to have no interest in allowing him to be sold on Switch.
I honestly think they were just worried at the reaction they might get if after 2 years of waiting his rework left him as a mid tier or 'fine' killer. Killers are less likely to complain about a killer being overbuffed than underbuffed. And there's a major victim complex problem in the killer community.
I know a lot of people think the devs stats are bogus (they don't have much of a reason to lie, really). We don't know their parameters. Could be using matches with DC/keys rank 1 vs rank 20. As it stands I don't hate playing against Freddy but hes too strong for solo players and just 'okay' against SWF.
I miss old Freddy deeply even though he was hated by most. There was strategy. New Freddy is "urrr im gunna place a snare and unga bunga than free tele to gen and pop hehe". There was micro-management to old Freddy even though he was significantly weaker overall.
I'd consider old Freddy the 'True Test' to a killer mains fundamentals about mindgaming loops/map knowledge and pressure.
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Nurse and Huntress require huge amounts of skill, especially Nurse, Freddy is braindead. Of the top 5 Killers he is by far the easiest to play, by a huge margin, one of the biggest things p2w offers is its easiness to use, noone wants to pay dosh to get something complicated, even if its very strong.
And yes, they buffed him because he was quite bad but they buffed him way too much. As people said, huge map control, inbuilt gen slowdown, anti loop tools (ones that dont even slow him unlike Hag or Trapper), a teleport that can be used to end chases (if the Survivor runs near a gen you can teleport to it to cut distance, if he backs down you cancel it), inbuilt counter to Terror Radius related perks, one of the best stealths in the game as he will see you well before you see him as he is invisible from 32 meters away (you can see Wraith glimmering around and Spirit cant see you while stealthed) etc, he just has too much going on for him with not a single drawback, hell even the alarm clock mechanic is a better stalling tool that Jigsaw traps, they make Survivors waste more time than any RBT and thats Jigsaw main power, thats why almost noone goes for alarm clocks unless they happen to pass by after doing a gen or saving someone.
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It's weird that they gave Freddy multiple mechanics that other killers evolve entirely around (teleportation on DEMAND, infinite use slowdown trap with quick placement and arm time/stronger slow effect in a chase than Clown with no need to reload, location from survivors stepping in snares, almost stealth killer like terror radius and visual shenanigans). It's a really weird shotgun blast approach to redesigning a killer.
He barely has any relation to the dream world in his current form. Sure, the dream world exists. But due to how fast you passively fall asleep combined with anything but an alarm clock (that 9/10 times will spawn as far as possible from you) there's a 95% chance you'll already be in the dream world when he finds/chases you anyway. Heck, leave your gen and go use the alarm clock. You'll get 60 seconds. By the time you're back at a gen it'll probably be down to 40-30 and you'll have lost more time than you could have possibly gained!
Removing the dream world aspect right this second would probably have little to no impact on his viability in a positive or negative light due to how inconseqeuntial it is.
This is less of a 'nerf now' post and more of a 'I am confusion' post.
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Well he's my secondary now my main main is Legion but playing freddy feels way better than trying to play legion..Playing trash and then stepping up to something way better makes things easy for me
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Well i have probably close to 2k hrs combined from ps4 to pc but he was all i played. From those 7 second sleep timers i just love freddy so i suffered through it and got pretty good then the rework happened so i started playing legion because they're cool af to me.. they just suck
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