Devs, what is the counter of the Spirit?
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Play for the 4vs1 not for the 1vs1. Easy spirit counter.
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"Why hasn't Spirit been nerfed?"
From memory she's been nerfed twice, 1 in PTB before she went live and she also received a nerf just a couple of months ago which was something the survivor mains demanded be nerfed and that was her collision. ironically a lot of survivor mains said if the devs removed her collision she would be balanced. The devs removed that, nerfed Prayer Beads addon and even decreased her phase speed and people still want her nerfed. Just shows you that biased survivor mains just talk out their A$$ and don't even know what they want. They just want the game to be easy mode where you go against every killer the same way
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Cool counterplay. The Spirit ######### up 3 times in a row and one was a straight 50/50 where Spirit could just used her ears.
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The same way you do in those games. I'll use Street Fighter as an example as i am familiar with that.
Take Ryu, in SF, one of the most basic characters. Generally his strategy is to use fireballs to keep you away, then when you get close try to punish you for avoiding them. How do you do that? Well an opponent can't react to a fireball at close range. It comes out too fast. In Street Fighter 5, a fireball from Ryu has 14 frames of startup. During that time you are performing an animation that indicates that you are throwing a fireball. The game runs at 60 frames per second. Which means to react to the fireball, you need to have a reaction time of 0.23 seconds. The world record reaction time is 0.15 seconds. The average human reaction time is 0.28 seconds.
That's not all though, a fireball has 31 recovery frames after it starts. Which means that you are unable to perform any action for 31 frames. Jumping over the fireball takes around 20-25 frames, depending on the character and their jump arc. This means that if you react to the fireball, you are probably reacting to the end of the startup frames, and you generally have about 5-6 frames to work with before the Ryu can do their own move. Well. Most jumping attacks have 7 frames of startup.
This means that even with amazing reaction time, you generally can't react to a fireball. So what are you to do? You need to make a read. You need to predict that they are going to a throw a fireball. But, here is the kicker, they could, NOT throw a fireball and then when you go to jump over it, now you are in the air, unable to block, and be punished. It becomes a "guessing" game.
But you aren't just guessing, you react to how your opponent plays, and you condition them. It's a lot like poker. You might condition them to think that you always throw 1 fireballs, then fake the second, then throw the third. So when they successfully read that you would throw your 3rd fireball. You have now conditioned your opponent to think you always fake the 4th fireball, and then when you get into that situation, you do something else. The next time, instead of throwing the 3rd fireball, you fake it. Then they go to jump over it, only, you aren't throwing a fireball, so now you can get a punish combo off of it.
That is exactly what spirit is but just for DBD.
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Please stop comparing DBD to a fighting game. There is nothing of the sort going on. You aren't conditioning me in the 15 seconds it takes to down you as Spirit. This also assumes I am completely incapable of changing how I play myself.
Also, to your comparison, it would be like if Ryu had no audio or animation for his fireball until it was already hitting you.
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I'm kinda noticing a trend: Everyone who is aware that spirit does indeed have some degree of counterplay seems to also play fighting games. interesting.
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I understand it is a different game but if you are familiar with fighting games it is still a similar situation. And sure maybe Ryu does make a noise and has an animation, but it happens so fast that you generally can't possibly "react" to it, you must predict it. It is similar to how deathslinger plays as well. You can't physically react to it fast enough, so you have to predict it.
Also saying you can't condition someone in 15 seconds... most fighting game rounds last 15-30 seconds. You can absolutely condition someone very quickly. MAYBE i'll give you that in modern fighters a mistake is less punishing, but i come from a long time of playing SF2 and MVC2. In SF2 a single mistake or bad read would often cost you an entire round. In MVC2 half the cast has an infinite combo so one mistake means your character is dead, so you get 3 of those per match. In DBD you generally get 6 chances which is quite a bit more than i'm used to.
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She's already broken as base, but I'd like to remind of her add-ons that make her completely busted. The ######### glasses addon shouldn't exist in the game, the fact that it's still there is beyond insane. Not to talk about the faster movement speed in phase walk.
Spirit needs a complete rework. She's just disgustingly broken.
And yeah keep repeating to yourselves how 'good' you are at juking spirits, when we all know it's just them ######### up.
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Guile is the better example, his projectile recovery is so fast in each game, you NEED to make either a guess or a hard read on when he is going to use it. There are very, very, very few scenarios where anyone can make a reaction to it. Same with El Fuerte in SF4 with his mixup. Or any grappler in any fighting game ever once you're in close range.
People don't see those scenarios as having zero counterplay. You have things you can try, though you are not guaranteed to escape their pressure. Meanwhile, there are situations with ACTUAL zero counterplay in the genre, like fuzzy guards, safe setups, option selects, etc. Sometimes games have limited resources to negate them, sometimes they don't. Fact of the matter is, its something fighting game players seem to be more accepting of because they're used to having situations be grossly out of favor, yet still not be hopeless.
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Reminder that the most balanced tile in the game, the L wall T wall tile, essentially boils down to a coin toss. Either the survivor chooses to vault the window or doesn't. However the killer chooses to play the tile when LoS is lost is just a way to coax the survivor to make the choice the killer wants.
It's not about the spirit messing up a few times, the key aspect here is what zubat does with the window to trick the spirit. Spirit has counterplay, and her counterplay essentially turns any tile into a balanced 50/50 tile where both the killer and the survivor have equal chances of outplaying one another. This goes to show how incredibly unbalanced towards survivors the game is, when people feel a fair chance against a killer is imbalanced.
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