Survivors Taking Game Hostage To Exploit Hatch
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It seems I have met a worthy opponent
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It's not the same, since the survivors will eventually die. They have a path out of the game, just waiting (bleeding out takes 4 minutes). The killer can't just wait it out, if the hiding survivors are dedicated to not being found, he cannot do sh*t until the survivor give up or make a mistake in hiding. The only way to get out in a timely fashion would be to DC and get a penalty for that. Really fair, right?
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Taking the game hostage has nothing to do with undesireable / uncounterable situations, it means you can not finish the trial on your own, since the other party is preventing you from doing so. Slugging does not keep you from dying, it just prolongs it. So it's no hostage situation. The only way a killer can take you hostage is blocking you without hitting and then holding you there for as long as he wants.
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I'm with you on this LOL
And anyways, this is such a rare problem... I've seen it happen to my boyfriend (who mains killer and has tons of hours in DBD) ONCE and it was when he had a nasty 3 gen as Huntress. The game was quite long but the two Claudettes must have had a conversation because one of them DC'd and the other immediately got the hatch after. And the hatch stand off was NOT more than 15 minutes. I don't believe anyone who says it is a "serious problem" as if there is an epidemic of immersive hatch campers.
So weird to me how some incredibly annoying thing happens to killer mains once or twice every hundred games, and suddenly it's the biggest deal in the world and BHVR NEEDS to make up a new mechanic to fix it ASAP, even though it's already a bannable offense LOL
They're probably the same guys who would say "do your secondary objectives!" if you complained about getting cheesed by NOED... but then suddenly those don't count as objectives and you're holding the game hostage when they're annoyed that you decided to cleanse totems and search chests instead of immediately and constantly working on the main objective (that they were ruthlessly guarding anyways) right away. You expect people to rush and do the gens in front of your face? (same energy as "I knew they were around the hook so I camped! You expect me to leave when I know they're gonna save immediately!?!").
Leave the objectives alone for a little while, maybe long enough to draw the rats out so that they feel safe enough to work on objectives a bit. It won't work for the mentally deranged Claudettes who are secretly wishing they had a mori so that they could kill the other survivor right on top of the hatch, but it will definitely work on NORMAL survivors who aren't willing to go work on those gens right in front of your face. It's your job to find and kill survivors, it's their job to do objectives. But there is a lot more to playing survivor than making a beeline to any gen no matter what's going on. Use a little bit of S T R A T E G Y and see if it gets you anywhere.
People who hold the game hostage deserve to get in trouble, and rightfully do, but I highly doubt it's such a problem that the devs need to introduce new solutions for it. (not that I'd be opposed to something, but I would resent some of the silly ideas people are presenting in this thread LOL)
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I can't argue with Sonic.
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No, survivors don't need another mechanic to completely ruin stealth builds. If the game is lasting 2 HOURS then that's 100% on the killer. Check lockers, check the corners, etc. The op even said he was just waiting to see how long they'd wait. He probably wasn't even looking. Stealth isn't 100% uncountable. Giving killers an already more easier time finding people will just ruin the game more.
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STEALTH? ARE YOU ######### KIDDING ME? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with stealth if you totally abandon your objective to hide from the killer and hope someone else dies or the killer disconnects. You take no risks whatsoever, you do not even try, that's just super lame and time wasting. A real STEALTH player is like a shadow or ghost, touching gens here and there but really hard to find. He will take some risks, even if it's only to taunt the killer a bit. He will certainly not sit in a corner.
The proclaimed mechanic would have absolutely no impact on your stealth if you still try to do your objective. Only when not touching a gen for like 10 minutes it would reveal you or something like that, nothing that would hit you in normal survivor play.
So what if the OP stopped searching? You would do the same eventually when you just can't find them and they do NOTHING but hiding.The survivors were STILL NOT DOING GENS, even when the killer just idled on the spot. Do I really have to spoon-feed you why this problematic and rightfully bannable behaviour?
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I play doctor so stealth players are no issue to me. Killers need to stop asking for easier than kills or buffs to help them do their job. There are killers who's powers eliminate stealth almost completely. Hell, there's even perks that do the same. Stealth doesn't need to be nerfed, and what you're asking is technically asking for it to be nerfed. Like it or not, that's still stealth. You don't have to be doing anything. Being undetectable to the killer is stealth.
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I mean, Holding the game hostage for me is basically when someone is doing something that the other player can do nothing about. I have never really interpreted hiding in an obscure corner of the map as taking the game for hostage. It just "prolongs the time a survivor can stay alive". That why I only view slugging for the 4K somewhat as taking the game for hostage, cause sure there is a timer, but it's way to long and both survivors can't really do much of the situation unless certain perks are on play, but hey what do I know.
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You can't chase what refuses to be found. The last two players often become immersed, which ultimately hold the game hostage as they will try to not end the match they clearly lost.
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Yes, with doctor this situation should not arise, or if you equipped whispers. But thats not the point. You cannot know if the survivor team will abandon gens when down to two people so you JUST IN CASE take whispers with you. Killers cannot be changed in lobby anymore, so I also cannot switch to doc if I see 4 blendettes. I do not want to play doc all the time, neither do i want to take whispers with me every game. Luckily I don't have to, bc this situation is rare. Still, from time to time survivors do that, and it's just a giant waste of time and totally unsportsmanlike. And saying that the killer just needs to try harder in this situation is extremely cynical, when the survivors LITERALLY do not have to do anything fancy to avoid being found (crouching through the map and hiding in a locker is far from rocket science).
For good sake, don't try to frame such a mechanic as a convential nerf, it wouldn't be! It would only affect you if all remaining survivors fail to proceed with your objective for a considerable amount of time, say 10 minutes. Only if all of the remaining survivors do not touch a gen this whole time, do not have any interaction with the killer or another survivor (meaning something like healing / mending), only then you would get revealed to the killer so he can find and chase you. You do not get exposed, you do not get down or injured or sacrificed on the spot. The entity gets mad at you that you do not play its game properly, so it helps the killer to find you. The reveal could be something like aura, killer instinct, or my favorite, crows that do not disperse until you do a gen for like half a minute or you get into a chase. Do you really want to tell me that such a thing would be a nerf for conventional stealth play? It totally wouldn't. We already have the afk crows, and no one complains about that. This mechanic would just add another layer to this afk punishment, adding another punishment for survivors idling around not doing anything productive.
Your comparison with undetectable is flawed, btw. Yes it's a passive effect, but it won't help the killer at all if he does not move (apart from camping, which is equally cheap). On the contrary, the survivor gets their "stealth" from moving as little as possible and not doing anythign else. Not very skillful play, don't you think? Imagine Splinter cell with this approach, would he get any mission done? Of course not, but he will never be found!
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That sounds really biased, to be honest. If slugging for 4k is a hostage situation bc it's "way to long and both survivors can't really do much", why is survivors hiding and doing nothing NOT taking hostage? That takes WAY, WAY, WAY longer and there's also not much the killer can do, unless they get lucky or a survivor screws up. At least the first situation has a fixed timer, so the survivors can just give up and wait out the bleedout timer (they can deny any healing by holding shift). The killer cannot just give up in the second situation, it's either find them or DC and lose all progress of this match.
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We are definitely in a stalemate here honestly but I can see your point of view. But like I said, the survivor by hiding is not taking the game hostage cause it's not preventing the killer to end the game in any way. With good map awareness or a small map this is literally no problem and will not happen in 90% of the games. It only takes as long as the killer or survivor permits it to be honestly, the killer is either doing a bad job (unless it's a huge map) or the survivors are absolute ninjas. I have had several game like this but I usually don't DC or believe they are taking the game hostage, Yes it's boring when it happens but you can still find them and down them normally. While slugging for the 4K has a fixed timer your basically rendering one survivors entirely useless while the other can only either wait for the killers mercy or risk getting the revive just to potentially restart the whole process again. Which is the reason most survivors who gets slug in the 2v1 usually DC. Instead of waiting the whole 4 minutes and possibly cocking their teammate.
When a survivors camps they aren't doing objective but they are not stopping the killer from doing his job, when killer slug for the 4K you are essentially stopping the survivors from doing any real objectives and just have to painfully wait for the timer or risk everything.
That is my view on things and I personally don't really sound to biased to neither side (I believe).If you view that situation as taking the game for hostage than ok, I respect your opinion and I am not trying to change it. Just trying to make you view both situations and while they suck, I rather be the killer searching for immersed survivors then getting my body stuck on the floor like a sack of ######### not available to do nothing 4 painful minutes. Even if we disagree on this subject lets at least just admit both situations are super boring and not fun at all.
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Auras being shown is excessive. Crows should still appear if you chose to do nothing. But then there's easy ways around this. Tap a gen then urban evasion to the other end of the map. There'll be no good way to bring these changes without it being a nerf and / or killers finding a way to take a unfair advantage of it.
Also I think they should remove the killer lock. I get why it's a thing but at the same time different situations require different killers and you don't know what situation that is until you're in a lobby.
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"Tap a gen then urban evasion to the other end of the map." Thats why I wrote you would have to work for like 30 seconds until the crows disperse, so you have to take some real risk of being found to get rid of them.
"killers finding a way to take a unfair advantage of it." I do not think thats exploitable, since it would only occur in the rare case that survs do nothing. I would say the survs are taking an unfair advantage in such situations currently.
How about a different approach? When the killer did not find anyone after 10 minutes running around the map (so it does not work when jsut afking in a corner), he can go into his basement and trigger the EGC with the usual rules (two minute timer to open a gate and get out, like with the closed hatch). Then the survs do not have to do gens anymore, but "just" a gate. That should be feasible, they can even split up and do both gates simultaniously. Of course that would also trigger end game perks like noed. Or if the EGC is to much, just power the gates, then the killer can open a gate if the survs still do not want to do anything.
"Also I think they should remove the killer lock." I do not mind the killer lock, to be honest, I only rarely switched killer in the lobby (most notably switching from hag to someone else due to multiple flashlights). And I guess they still want to add MMR again and use the data gathered for improving it.
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"When a survivors camps they aren't doing objective but they are not stopping the killer from doing his job," I disagree, if the survs do not take any risks whatsoever so they cannot be found out of sheer luck, thats stopping the killer from doing chasing and gen protection. He is limited to just searching then, which is doomed from the start since survs have a massive advantage in a hiding game against the killer. Sure the killer is busy, but he achieves nothing, just like a slugged survivor. But the later at least is guaranteed to get out due to the bleed out timer.
I think thats the core disctinction between our views. You consider the "potential to do something": a slugged surv cannot do anything, a killer against immersed can still walk around. I consider the "potential to get out of the game": a slugged surv will be out after 4 minutes bc he bled out. A killer searching for immersed players will never get out until the survs give up or make a mistake. The killer is dependent from the "mercy" of the survivors he's playing against in this situation, thats what makes it a hostage situation. Thats also the view from the devs, btw, so if you want to report someone for taking the game hostage, you would have to assert the situation using this "potential to get out of the game" metric.
But overall, I think you are right with the stalemate, so I won't argue any further from now on :). And yes, I totally agree that both situation are super unfun, although personally I'm more annoyed by the survs-not-doing-anything situation. But I'm more or less a killer main, so I'm biased anyway ^^. I also will slug the second to last one to at least find the hatch to close it (if it already spawned). But then I'll likely let you out of a gate, if you were not toxic or annoying ^^.
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"thats stopping the killer from doing chasing and gen protection" so here is the big grey area. Before you start a chase you need to FIND the survivors. For me finding a survivor is basically another one of the killer objectives in my eyes. It's find, chase and protect gens at all costs. That is mostly the reason I don't think hiding in any situations is taking the game hostage. The only real way for me for a survivor to take the game hostage is to literally get in a spot where the killer can't do jack about. Neither injure him, grab him etc.
"Thats also the view from the devs, btw," pretty sure someone recently added a photo of Peanits actually saying hiding wasn't taking the game for hostage but it is reportable. Not to sure though, been a while since I had checked the other pages.
Well, at least this argument was fun and civil XD. But yeah we both have really different ideas about this whole taking a game hostage scenario. I play on both sides so I do understand the idea of hiding for to long as taking the game for hostage. The important thing is that we understood each other ideas and respected them.
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I didn't thought that people can defend this kind of behaviour and say it's normal. I suggest a timer when there are just two survs left, if no gens are done/touch and the killer doesn't commit to a chase/hit in let's say 2 mins then the end game collapse will trigger and the hatch remains closed as well.
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"Survivors are immersed AF and refuse to do their job"... which is... surviving.. ok killer main
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Killers: Why can survivors hold the game hostage by hiding.
Survivors: UGH STOP TUNNELING CAMPING PROXYCAMPING GEN-CAMPING EXITGATE CAMPING AND JUST SEARCH FOR US, BUT DONT SEARCH FOR US IF YOU HURT US RECENTLY OR ELSE YOU ARE A TUNNELER AND CAMPER!
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They can get banned?
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Killer is taking game hostage by not being good enough to find and kill the last 2 Survivors 😁
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Way to take my words out of context. I said that the one's who refuse to do the gens in hopes of the other survivor dying is them being immersed AF and refusing to do their job. That's not surviving, that's screwing the other survivor over, and holding the game hostage. Nice try tho
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I have! As a Doctor main I can confirm I've had hour long matches with a 3-gen situation although I am hitting, downing, and hooking survivors. Not all 3-gen doc games get dragged out this long but it can happen.
Note a 3-gen can actually be a hostage situation if the killer is literally refusing to kill you. (You give up. Run up to him so he can hook you and you can move on to another match, but he just keeps shocking you and overcharging the same 3 gens ignoring survivors in hopes they DC) I 3-gen pretty often as Doc but there's a difference between 3-genning to win (You're still hitting, downing, and hooking) and only shocking people off generators, repeatedly picking up and dropping survivors to reset them, etc. and otherwise creating an actual hostage situation where survivors physically cannot repair generators but you refuse to kill them or let them bleed out.
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The screenshot from peanits was acutally in this very thread and supports my claim :):
Yeah, it's nice to have an actual civil discussion here, thats quite rare in this forum. Usually accusations and misunderstandings are exchanged, I'm no saint there as well ^^.
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well usually what i do with 3 gen strat is trying to injure people then when i see i can get a down i go for it or when rest of the team is healing while one survivor is not i go for that one survivor
this always works for me
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I am glad to see this getting so much popularity, maybe the issue will finally get looked into. I just had another game like this. It wasn't as long as 2 hours, but still gruelling to sit through till I found one of them, and then could use my BBQ to find the last one.
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I thought Peanits answered the post and wanted to vote up his answer hahahahaha.
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Hatch was never added for this purpose?
Hatch is in the game since launch. The only purpose is to give the last survivor a chance to escape, not to prevent hostage situations. EGC was added to do that.
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That's not right. If you were right then the survivor shouldn't have to do 2 gens from the start of the game. The hatch was made to avoid a +30 min game, and yet when the killer found the hatch, he just would stand there waiting for the survivor as long as it took. EGC and hatch closing was added to avoid the looking contest in the hatch.
Ask the devs if you want.
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Probably all the players who started playing after the hatch was added to the game.
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Why is strat in quotation marks? It's a legitimate strategy. So is two survivors sneaking around. Are they annoying, sure. But isn't that the point of a competitive game? Prevent the opponent from completing objectives. Why would a killer abandon a three gen?
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And I agree...never said I didn’t, but it’s the same when a survivor uses immersion as a strat against a killer who has killed half the team. Just kind of tired of listening to “one is a strat the other is holding the game hostage” comments.
Sometimes there is no other way but to immerse. Even as annoying as it might be.
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The difference is, the killer protecting the 3 gen is doing so in order to win, they are playing the game as intended. The last survivors playing immersed and not touch gens at all for extended period of time is not done in order to win, but to make the killer quit. They are not playing the game as intended, therefore it's bannable behaviour.
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It has become ridiculous. Matches are being extended well past the 20 minute mark on occasion because the last 2 survivors hide and refuse to progress the game. Survivors should absolutely get crows if they take no altruistic action, chase action, or objective action for 5 minutes.
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The hatch wasn't in the game since launch. What are you going on about?
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Just added to the game. Big eyeroll. Are you serious BHVR?
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Lmao look man you can run any perks you want BUT if it bothers you so much that 2 survivors are hiding and holding the game hostage...run whispers. Also, whispers is OP af and it would behoove you to learn how to use it. Why all the drama for a tiny percentage of games that end up with survivors hiding and refusing to do gens? Also, as you rank up that will cease. I don't remember the last time that happened to me.
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