People who say Spirit has no counter play be like........
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B-b-but muh loops. Nerf spirit. /s
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No, that was guessing, you have no idea if she has recovery addons on or not, expecting survivors to know the exact times on an ability recovery and speed with 0 indication on what the killer is running is ridiculous.
Kind of like killers who constantly complain about not knowing how long DS has left survivors are apparently supposed to know how long an ability has left to recover when it has things that can affect it's recovery speed.
100% guessing and you know it, also "just run to the house" like yea because the spirit wouldn't have caught up with her by then without her power.
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Recovery add-ons don't give her power back that fast. It would still be on cooldown. And no it's not hard, I reliably predict when a Spirit is phasing or not because I know she doesn't have her power. If I'm not sure, I just assume she is phasing and play to that. But I definitely don't run back to the husk, that's like the dumbest thing you can do here. Literally the dumbest move. In no world is this a smart decision.
If you are guessing against Spirit you already lost. There is only so many things she can do to catch you in this situation. In this video, the ONLY option the Spirit would have to catch her is to just follow her in phase. All she had to do was act like she was phasing behind her and run to 2 story on her right and her chances of surviving just went up dramatically. If she was faking (which she was) then that just buys you more time to make it there.
And you can easily track DS. I do it regularly, it's not hard. Please don't assume that because you can't count to 60 in your head that means someone else can't.
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That ain't it, chief
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"I reliably predict" So you guess when her ability is back, but don't ever actually know whether it is or not.
"If you are guessing against spirit you already lost" When you're at a pallet on a loop you're guessing immediately as to whether she is standing still or not, please tell me the appropriate counter to this, i'd love to hear your big brain theory
"And you can easily track DS. I do it regularly, it's not hard. Please don't assume that because you can't count to 60 in your head that means someone else can't" What? I think DS is perfectly fine, I have no issues going against it as killer, maybe re-read what I put "Kind of like killers who constantly complain about" didn't once mention myself.
Also, did you watch the video? Her power was almost recovered, if she had recovery addons she would have had it back by then, pure guess work.
Keep up the guess work :)
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You ran to the pallet where she would show up even though you claim you "read" her and knew where she would be. Running left would of had you avoid the encounter overall. Yes you were gonna escape 100% she was not a good spirit you can. Ot deny that.
You can make a bad stridor spirit mess up but any good one will pinpoint your location. Our spirit player I did jb t watch the game all I know was he lost you never was in a chase you hid the whole game from his words and apparently yours now. You have no say in that. He picked up spirit 2 weeks ago if you would verse my feiendnwho has played spirit since release it would be a different story.
You can bot outplay a spirit your input does not matter if you so somehow "outplay" her it's her fault. You have no info nor what you do will change what the spirit does. They can watch you then phase. Yeah it's usually a bad spirit if you can "outplay" them. You arent a very good survivor either based on your movement and how you play the game well atleast what I watched you will get destroyed by a good spirit.
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@HuntressGurl103 you say we bring invalid arguments in yet you are saying because someone makes a video its fact. I could say that Tru3Ta1ent is right because he plays a lot of this game on both sides and he believes spirit has counter play lol. I would never use someone elses views as my own i am not a sheep I play and gather my own info and decide from there. ANY good killer is killing you regardless of who it is spirit nurse billy ETC...... Its funny because if you face an insanely good nurse your cucked regardless of counter play yet no one cries about her it makes 0 sense
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Well. Nurse skill cap stops people from complaining. But, they did nerf nurse. Badly.
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""I reliably predict" So you guess when her ability is back, but don't ever actually know whether it is or not."
No. A guess is doing something without any information and hoping it works. A prediction is based on information.
When I see someone get hooked across the map, and then she pops up from phase near me that means she has 0 power. At best, she gets it back in 12 seconds if she has stacked cooldown. Most likely its 15 seconds. Either way, I have 10 seconds to loop or run to a safe tile. If it's something like a long wall jungle gym I can use the window to avoid her phasing. There is no guesswork here, I KNOW what she can and cannot do.
"When you're at a pallet on a loop you're guessing immediately as to whether she is standing still or not, please tell me the appropriate counter to this"
Easy, pretend like she is doing both and play to that. You will see opportunities to escape that would beat both tactics at the same time, making her actions moot and removing any guesswork on your end. Generally speaking, the safest absolute option is windows. LT tiles are actually really great against her if you know how to run them in unusual patterns to bait her to go around or wait for a vault.
If you don't have a problem with DS then why even bring it up? You are literally comparing counting to 60 in your head with counting to 12 in your head. Same ######### thing. Like really what is your point here? I never complained about DS, you brought it up as a comparison, then backpedal to say "oh I don't have a problem with it I'm comparing you to these people even though you don't even share the same opinions". Really what is your point here except to try and put yourself above someone else like some kind of snarky elitist?
PS. "Guessing" against a Spirit is no more guesswork than countering a Clown moonwalk at a tile. You don't see the red stain on either side, mostly likely that means they are moonwalking, well which side can the get you with a moonwalk you run to the other side. Works 98% of the time. That's basically how you play against Spirit. You track what she is doing, you understand what she CAN and CANNOT do in any given situation, you run to safe windows, YOU DO NOT DO STUPID ######### like in the OP's video, and you will run most Spirit's very easily on most tiles. And like I said before no one plays perfect, so yea I mess up and get caught but it's usually something I should have know or because I tried to do something cheeky like the OP's video (not that stupid but still). Or I just got outplayed, or it was just inevitable I was going down. It happens against every killer, why Spirit is a problem though is beyond me.
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Even with that nerf you are NOT escaping a good nurse. I was referring to the nerfed version. Im just saying no one bats an eye to her and she is gross lol
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dude i saw your video where you legit ran in circles in front of a spirit and claimed no counter play lol
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T-t-too much logic. Stahp. Spirit is op abd youre wrong. Viva la survivors. Nerf spirit. /s
Your post is hella enlightening tho. As someone who plays spirit. Most of my mindgames work cause survivors get pallet stun hungry. With that being said, survivors forget the power of W. Sometimes that key wins games.
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I mean.. tbh youre not escaping from any good killer. There is times i got a 4k in red ranks with no perks on a pig. Game is weird
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Nothing you say makes sense at all.
"When I see someone get hooked across the map, and then she pops up from phase near me that means she has 0 power. At best, she gets it back in 12 seconds if she has stacked cooldown. Most likely its 15 seconds. Either way, I have 10 seconds to loop or run to a safe tile. If it's something like a long wall jungle gym I can use the window to avoid her phasing. There is no guesswork here, I KNOW what she can and cannot do."
This is funny to me because you're assuming she'll only ever stand still if she's recently used her power, if she hasn't recently used it and she's standing still guess what, you're guessing, good luck countering this with "count to 12" because you'll never know, by the way, watch the video, she had 0 charge addons and was only a second or two away from having her power, the survivor has no idea if she has charged addons, had she had charge addons her power would have very well been back.
"Easy, pretend like she is doing both and play to that. You will see opportunities to escape that would beat both tactics at the same time, making her actions moot and removing any guesswork on your end. Generally speaking, the safest absolute option is windows. LT tiles are actually really great against her if you know how to run them in unusual patterns to bait her to go around or wait for a vault."
... Pretend ... she ... is ... doing ... both? That's called guessing what she's doing, and guessing what you should do, that's not a counter, guessing is not a counter, how does pretending she's doing both do anything? It means you can't vault because she might be faking, and it means you can't run away and make noise because she might actually be phasing, so you're guessing, lmfao.
"If you don't have a problem with DS then why even bring it up? You are literally comparing counting to 60 in your head with counting to 12 in your head. Same [BAD WORD] thing. Like really what is your point here? I never complained about DS, you brought it up as a comparison, then backpedal to say "oh I don't have a problem with it I'm comparing you to these people even though you don't even share the same opinions". Really what is your point here except to try and put yourself above someone else like some kind of snarky elitist?"
"Like some snarky elitist" - did you not literally imply I couldn't count to 60 in your response before this? You're the one being snarky.
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I mean fair fair enlugh but not much in could do. Amulet plus mother daughter ring. Then stridor and a spirit who had a good headset. You definitely were not surviving that so you cant really say much.
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But he had Stridor, that should make him unbeatable in a chase? How long did he chase Cesar? Like half the game. No Iron Will. But yea you can't run from a Spirit.
You are always moving the goalpost. Suddenly he is a bad Spirit that just picked her up 2 weeks earlier. Then why not have your more experienced killer play then? Sorry this just doesn't make sense to me at all, seems like you are just kinda making ######### up to avoid admitting that a Spirit got outplayed.
I hid from her because that is the best counter play. You can't die if she never hits you, and she can't hit you if she never finds you. Not to mention I didn't really even try to hide that much, she just chased my team for the whole game and then gens were done so we bailed. She saw me make the save at the end and that was pretty much it.
"You ran to the pallet where she would show up even though you claim you "read" her and knew where she would be. Running left would of had you avoid the encounter overall. "
I mean, a read doesn't have to be anything complicated. All it means is you know what your opponent is going to do. I knew what direction she was coming, how fast she would get there, and I had a plan where to run. What else do you need to see it was me reading her. No guesswork, I knew she saw the door stop, I knew she was going to follow me because I was running and injured. I knew all this and I was right. What I didn't read was Bill, but reading other survivors in the presence of a Spirit is damn near impossible because Spirit's TR turns survivors stupid.
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A good stridor spirit is near unbeatable. I didnt watch the game so I dont know much details he was pretty upset because you guys are good at holding rb. He did pick her up about 2 weeks before that game as easy as the blueberry is she has a skill cap not a very big one though.
Not saying hes a bad spirit but he also isnt the best. My friend was out of town and our killer main isnt that good with spirit. Then the rest of us dont like her I can play spirit but I dont play her often so I'd have to put more time into her. I'm not making any ######### up I'm telling you the stuff ik and how I felel.about the killer.
Yeah hiding is technically valid counterplay but we are talking about chase counterplay. I've been watching dowsey play spirit and you cant tell me there is a way for survivors to counter that.
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"This is funny to me because you're assuming she'll only ever stand still if she's recently used her power, if she hasn't recently used it and she's standing still guess what, you're guessing, good luck countering this with "count to 12" because you'll never know, by the way, watch the video, she had 0 charge addons and was only a second or two away from having her power, the survivor has no idea if she has charged addons, had she had charge addons her power would have very well been back."
If she hasn't used it recently then I know she's phasing, but as a precaution I run away from the husk. BOOM you beat both options without guessing. You just play to both. Not sure how it is this difficult to understand.
"... Pretend ... she ... is ... doing ... both? That's called guessing what she's doing"
No it's not. You are playing to beat both options at once. Guessing would be assuming she is doing one or the other and the trying to beat that.
Let's say you took my cell phone from me and put in one of your front pockets, then say to me "guess which pocket it is in and you get it back". Then instead of picking a pocket, I just punch you in the mouth and rip your pants off to get my phone back. That's basically what I'm talking about. Don't play into her game, know what she can and cannot do and play to as many options as possible when you are running.
""Like some snarky elitist" - did you not literally imply I couldn't count to 60 in your response before this? You're the one being snarky."
Bro you brought it up then tried to someone compare me to those players. Like you're trying to gaslight.
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I've watched Dowsey and he is really good but survivors still do massively stupid ######### in his games. Like who in their right mind waits at a pallet for a Spirit?!? Really it's astounding. Just hold forward and run tiles, use windows, don't ever run back into the husk. Just do these 3 things I promise you will see yourself improve against Spirit.
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I agree with you its dumb as hell to run back into anspirit and survivors do mistakes but they can just react to what you do. If they run phase towards them. They stay phase towards them. As long as you watch what they do then adjust accordingly it's pretty hard to not get a hit as spirit.
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Again, windows. It takes 1.5 seconds to start a phase at base, 1s with stacked add-ons. So if she's not directly behind you then she is phasing, and you got a 4m headstart. You run at 4m/s she moves at 7m/s base, fastest 9m/s. If you are 10m apart it would take her between 5s and 6.5s to catch up (when you calculate the initial distance, the extra distance gained while she starts phasing, and your velocities over time, also it accounts for every possible add-on combination). So, on average, I'd say you have 6 seconds to get to a tile if you are 10m away. The more initial distance the more time you have (and the less likely she can catch you in a phase because the base distance is abut 35m, which is about how far she would have to go with a 10m initial distance).
Do math and she's not infallible. She only has a limited set of options and he phase only lasts 5 seconds at base.
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Ok so now you are at a time even with windows and you are injured a spirit can pi point your location. Windows though yes they help you more than any other obstacle. Anyways back to the numbers I suppose they are good to have but once that distance Is closed and you are now near her using the power becomes even more deadly.
Now that that 10m becomes 2 there isnt much room for you to "put her into position to make mistakes" it now becomes a guessing game. Guess if shes phasing, guess which direction, etc.
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Before every spirit was running Stridor, when people paid more attention to scratchmarks than sounds (or maybe sounds were just bugged than, who knows) running back into the spirit wasn't such a bad idea. Running back on your own scratchmarks conceals the new ones and can confused the spirit, at best making her lose you completely (requires iron will though). I've done it many times, and it worked many times. As far as I remember, I've never run into a Spirit that was just standing still.
I mean it's obviously stupid against a stridor spirit but it wasn't such a bad strategy for quite some time.
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"Ok so now you are at a time even with windows and you are injured a spirit can pi point your location."
Have you ever played Spirit with Stridor? It doesn't work like you think.
Stridor counters Iron Will. What it does is turn Iron Will 3 into Iron Will 1 basically. So they are STILL quieter but not totally quiet. All that means is you can't hide in plain sight while injured because she might be able to hear you if you are REALLY close (like 8m).
Now if you DO NOT have Iron Will, Stridor just makes you loud AF. She will be able to track you from a distance, like 16m maybe, but as she gets closer you get so loud it's actually not that easy to "pinpoint their location". It has a sweet spot where you can tell distance and direction but at the end of the day Stridor doesn't make Spirit completely unbeatable. It just soft counters the perk that best counters her power. But it comes at the cost of it being a bit harder to track normal survivors at close range.
Also that's not how math works. If you just hold W and run in a straight line, at a 10m head start with no add-ons SHE CANNOT CATCH UP TO YOU. Maybe she can get a hit if she goes for a long lunge and you have nothing around you, but if you can't reach a safe window in 35m then how do you even play survivor against a normal killer?
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I've played every killer otnunderstand the killer side and how they preform yes I've played stridor spirit. Yes stridor does turn iron will 3 into 1 but if you plah enough stridor spirit you will learn the audio and how far and close.
Iron will 1 is still quite loud you can definitely hear farther than 8 meters. Without iron will like I said you have to just use the perk and learn the distances. Anyone who is new to stridor will be confused but after maybe a week or 2 they will catch on.
The best spirits can and will pinpoint your location.
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Then you use math and logic to dictate where to run such that she can't catch you in phase no matter what she does, or such that her options are so severely limited that she just gives up on you. Yes you may need to take a 50/50 at a window, but tell me how that's any different than a red stain mindgame?
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So which is it thats overpowered? Good spirit players or "The best" spirit players? Cause by your logic if we measured only using the best players, the best pig player in this game would make any idea to a buff to her kit look like an insane power grab of greed.
Everything you've mentioned about spirit and not being able to play a loop the same way as other killers comes from the idea of YOU CAMPING PALLETS! Literally every post is a low key variant of "WHY CAN'T I CAMP THIS PALLET"
You can't camp a pallet vs huntress....you can't camp a pallet vs Legion....you can't camp a pallet vs Nurse....what makes you think Spirit is any different? Hit the next jungle gym and move on....DON'T RUN BACK TO THE WINDOW PLAIN AS DAY WHEN SHE'S STARING RIGHT AT YOU. Don't try to low crawl away completely removing any time you have to get away if she is phasing. Phasing has a charge up time <---
Hit the next window vault....and move.....on.
Stop camping pallets used to be a motto that most old school survivors lived by, and could execute some of the deadliest jukes ever seen in this game, and thats even been the case since spirits release. The fact that this new wave of survivors doesn't understand that isn't because spirit changed, its because survivors literally got worse. (Which is a strange factor that I would have never thought I'd ever see).
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The only math you can use is after noticing what addons she has or what she roughly has. If she has let's say recovery add ons it not only makes her stand still mindgame more prevalent but puts you in a bad situation more.
The only way you can truly limit her options is at a window where it isnl a true 50/50 if you are not injured. Red stain mindgames arent bad you have access to the killers previous moves, where they were before the mindgame started and your position, a pallet for example. With spirit you have virtually no info except where you are.
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Base charge = 1.5s
Stacked charge = 1s
Base movement speed = 7m/s
Stacked movements speed = 9m/s
Base duration = 5s
Stacked duration = 10s
Base max distance = 35m
Absolute max distance (MDR + Amulet) = 70m
She can only have 2 add-ons at a time. So unless she has MDR/Amulet combo, you can reliably figure out the math give or take a few m or s depending on what you are calculating.
If she has MDR/Amulet combo then she can't see scratch marks so use that to your advantage.
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Dude....by the time she closes that distance she has to be on cooldown again you can just loop her normally after she closes the distance, and as soon as she starts phasing repeat the same process......Fact is, you can loop her longer than huntress, and hag, if you know what you're doing (From personal experience as spirit going against survivors who know exactly what they're doing, and yes, it is a nightmare). Instead of trying to play against her as if she's some basic trapper, you do the following,
Run toward pallet or loop>Did she freeze? Yes? Abandon the pallet and head toward the next jungle gym or window vault>She didn't freeze?>Loop pallet as normal>She's closing the gap and has now phased to your jungle gym?> Loop as normally for 15 seconds she's on cooldown, she's effectively a basic M1 killer>Its been 15 seconds Did she freeze? Yes? Abandon the loop and head toward the next one ^ rinse repeat indefinitely.
Stridor does not matter, I don't need it, most killers don't need it, unless you're taking iron will, it has no effect...I can hear you.....no matter what perks I'm bringing unless you have iron will... <--- Thats it. You're playing against another human being likely headphone users and some of them speaker users, survivors without iron will make enough noise to the point where Stridor is a non factor. The only times stridor has made a difference in my playstyle as any killer including Spirit is finding non injured survivors hiding in bushes and I can hear them breathing.
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Still let's say you do get the math down and now you have made some rough but pretty good calculations. The numbers dont matrer when everything the spirit does has no tell. For you to put these numbers into use you would have to guess when she is phasing!
If you cant tell when she starts her phase your numbers will be off and you will he going off false info. Now you are in a bad position because you went off rough numbers then made calculations based on false info.
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Dude the math doesn't lie. You can just run forward and have a like 95% to not get hit. Who TF cares about a tell when no matter what she does she can't hit you?
If she waits to phase you just get more distance on her. Not sure how you think her standing still somehow defeats the math.
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Wait from all your comments you are from the spirits pov not a survivors. Maybe play against a good spirit and come to a conclusion.
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Math can be wrong if you arent accurate with the calculations. I never said that. People care about a tell because there isnt many situations where she can not hit you 100%
You are assuming shes waiting a long time to phase and once again you have to guess shes waiting. Standing still defeats the math because it applies to phasing which you have to guess whether she is doing it or not if shes doing it then you apply the math.
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I do both, but spirit is my second main killer, and I laugh every time survivors fall for my tricks because I bank off the chance that the survivor is stupid. And at least 7 times out of 10, they are. When I'm playing survivor against spirit I already know all my counters and tricks so I run through that exact same process I listed in my post. I have an easier time against spirit as a survivor because she's one of my main killers than I do against a trapper or hillbilly or any other killer for that matter tbh. Same with pig, I have no issues with pig players because I main pig, I already know whats going to happen and how they're going to play from start to finish.
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Still every player plays the same you sont exactly know what they will do or how they will do it. You may versed in common tricks spirits do but that's all.
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There are fields of math that deal with unknown variables.
Saying math can be wrong just proves you don't understand what you are talking about. Hold W if you are more than 10m from her and you have a HIGH CHANCE to avoid getting hit out of phase because she can't catch up to you before it ends.
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Killers like spirit don't have a choice but to play 1 way and the same..... She is an M1 killer with a mobility cooldown. Doesn't matter if you're red rank, green, purple or whatever, she is a binary killer. She has the option of Teleporting>M1'ing>and faking. <----How you utilize those 3 things will play out the exact same way every time. Reading her is easy and quickly learned from just playing her. And she's not even that difficult to read. You want unpredictability Pig, trapper, hag, huntress, and wraith ARE WAAAAAY harder to pattern out. Wraith only slightly a bit less than the others. And what I'm referring to is red ranked play, doesn't matter....the run down on her loops is exactly the same every time. "Common Tricks" I mean....say what you want but to me it just sounds like you haven't played her, and are coming to the forums to complain because for whatever reason you can't figure it out. Her playstyle is extremely repetative once you know that gameplay loop you won't have anymore issues....
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Ok but the math you are speaking of has no variables it's off of base kit spirit and no spirit runs base kit.
holding w when she is 10m away is another guess if shes basekit and not running speed add ons. The high chance is actually low.
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Bro I just listed all the min/max values for her power.
Hold W when she is 10m gives you a greater than 90% chance to avoid getting hit. Of ######### course it's not guaranteed, but that's what you want isn't it? A guaranteed way to escape her? It doesn't work like that.
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You listed the min/max but now you are back to guessing if she has the min/max or in between to apply the math we went over.
Holding a at 10m gives you a great chance of success if we are going against a base. I dont want a guarenteed way to escape the blueberry but something that's consistent and where my skills matter. At this point elts agree to disagree I got stuff to do and this is dragging on way too long.
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thats the point i am trying t prove.
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