How Can Some People Call This Game Killer Sided?
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I have over 2700 posts. I work a living. Sorry, but I'm not going through all that. I remember what was said, but at the end of the day I just don't care enough on the forums to go through that. So, I'll just bow out of this one. Again, sorry.
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Didn't think so, have a good day :)
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People who call this game killer sided are either too casual or too ignorant to play the game at the level required to experience the imbalance. It is what it is.
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It's 4v1. It should definitely favor the 4 man team at high level play. That's how asymmetrical games work. This is not a fighting game where both parties should have an equal chance at victory. A team of uncoordinated solo players needs to have a chance (And spoiler, most of the time one really bad player can break a team. I almost always get 3 or 4ks as killer at rank 1, I believe the game is actually killer sided but I won't contest the main point, for sake of avoiding a larger argument.)
A 4 man team of people who all know the game and optimize to do everything they can to escape should escape every time unless they make mistakes. Even if the killer plays perfectly. Don't like it? Don't play killer! The point of asymmetrical games as the one-man side is not to always overwhelm the other team and feel a power fantasy, it's to challenge yourself by taking on four people that you have to multitask down.You are going to lose, and that's the point. You are the boss they need to overcome.
I do believe that there need to be more killers like deadslinger, huntress, and hag (And nurse and spirit, but maybe not that strong) and a little less overpowered of pyramid head and less characters Bubba, Trapper and Legion. M1 killers have a harder time against people with map knowledge because there's only so much mindgaming you can do. You're not meant to win every game. You can be good at the game without winning every time.
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I would say for the most part its killer sided between beginner and intermediate players. Top tier players solo or not can mess up even a good killer. When voice comms and meta builds are added into the equation it isn't even a question. Not enough killers have the pressure to be able to deal with that.
The 2 main culprits are map design and perk combinations imo. Maps are too big for most killers or feature way too many connected loops.
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Well, to be fair there were a lot of buffs for killers and nerfs for survivors recently, though little of these changes actually addressed a serious problem.
I only wish devs did something with swfs&spread playstyle (3 survivors sit on 3 gens&the other one gets chased) where you mathematically cannot win if survivors do everything right and are also using default copypaste second chance builds.
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@Kilmeran @SenzuDuck I decided to go back and look, the stats from around November apparently excluded games with DC's whereas the stats from earlier in that year counted them, so turns out you're both right.
Edit for clarification.
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No the latest ones were from November, I meant earlier in 2019, sorry for the confusion
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Against swf you're best playing killer with a elevated skill ceiling and showing zero mercy for the first down. If you reach rank one and maintain it with the above tactic employed then you have joined the many killers I have faced that have convinced me that this game favors killers and the only true way to survive is gen rush as a group with perks that help you shave off killer pressure.
Given how much survivors fold under the slightest pressure in solo queue I would say killer is not that hard half my matches as killer and survivor on average have one or two survivors who even go to windows and pallets.
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If you are an amazing player, on a strong killer, using the best perks and add-ons, then yes, the game can be killer sided. However, if you play a regular killer with good addons and items and you are a decent player then the survivors almost completely dictate how that game will go.
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There is a large difference between a game favoring one side and the player just being bad.
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In red ranks, all killers, ALL have an average of 60%+ kills, majority of them above 70%. It means that they have an average above 2k. Game is killer sided, period.
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One mistake as killer can cost the whole match. A mistake as survivor can be fixed with perks or teammates. Or ya know, just having a combined total of 12 lives.
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Played both sides and I can safely say that killers have way more **** to deal with. Playing as a survivor, even at mid ranks is a breeze, its 4 v 1. As a killer at midranks, its torture being juked, pallet stunned, looped, ds'd, bodyblocked, teabagged, flashlighted by 4 opponents. I love the challenge and I Still try to improve, but this game is survivor sided, no doubts about it.
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I think the worst part about it is those players normally get off scot free unless it has been recorded, but even then, if you aren't a streamer, there's a chance nothing will happen anyways. I hope your future matches are better, but with this community, unfortunately nothing is guaranteed.
With crossplay having been added, would you like to play together?
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Even solo queue players can beat a a good killer.
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You can have 3 gens pop in 60s, if survivors play it right, regardless of what you do. One minute to have the game 60% over. Pair that with hiding/immersed/stealthy survivors and the game is basically over. For this reason Urban evasion, Spine Chill, Quick and Quiet, and Sprint Burst is my least favorite perk combo. Especially when paired with toolboxes and blendettes. Is playing the game that way even fun? Hiding when you hear the terror radius and playing M1 simulator when you don't?
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And still they get 3k most of the time in red ranks.
You killer mains are sad, you have stats in front of your eyes, it's official and you are still saying bullshit. How is it possible to ignore the stats...
Stats are made with swf & soloQ. SWF lower the kill rate so if we would exclude them from the stats, killer rate would be around 85%.
Really, i don't understand how bad faith you need to be to continue arguing agaisnt stats. Have you done mathematics at school or what ?!
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Huh.
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Maybe because the stats don't match up with their experience?
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They should change it from killers/survivors to Taunters and Taunted. That's what it feels like and I play mid ranks, 50/50
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I've beaten decent Spirit's with the best loadouts in solo queue. Even the slightest mistake as killer can cost the match.
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Then the problem is their lack of skill, not the game balance.
In a given game, if i'm rank platinum and 20% of the playerbase is diamond, it doesn't mean that the game is unbalanced, it means i don't have the diamond level.
Killers saying the game is survivor sided are just bad killers and need to train to improve, i don't care about their experience, only stats matter.
And as a red survivor, it's what i see most of the game, soloQ or SWF, it's 2k+, often 3k.
When there are only 1k or 2k, the killer is really bad at looping and controlling the map when there are 2 gens to go.
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I'm new what is M1 killers?
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Oh and guys, forgot to mention it.
We consider a killer has won the game when he has 3k. With the stats we have, the kill rate in red rank is 75%. It means that killer in red rank win almost 100% of the games.
But yes, it's survivor sided lol...
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Yeah, I try to get as much documented when I can but the disappointment certainly gets in the way lol. And I'm a baby so I'm scared to share my gamer tag, but I may feel more confident in sharing that info in the future, since I'm getting a headache from all this bs haha. And thank you, I hope your games go great as well :)!
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Like I said once, there is a huge difference between a game favoring one side and the players' skill level.
For instance, a good Clown is going to lose against a competent SWF in every scenario.
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Killers that don't have a secondary attack.
A killer like Trapper is M1.
A killer like Huntress is M2.
There are some exceptions such as Pyramid Head, who is still M1.
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Its killer sided when i play nurse, i can tell you that;)
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Thanks for that. I knew I remembered him saying it, I just mixed up which stat block. But that makes sense, now that I think about it. I wasn't playing nor following DbD in November 2019. I left September 2019 and didn't come back until sometime in 2020.
I'm about to break from DbD and the forums again. I have a manuscript due to the publisher in November and am a bit behind, so need to grind that deadline. But thanks for clarifying before I head off. I very much appreciate the time you put into it.
See y'all when I come back after the New Year.
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is very rare to see 4 very good individuals... there is always a weakling in solos like 95% of the tiem there is one and you can take advantage of it.
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Do you have a recent source for your last point (recent meaning this year)
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The game is definitely killer sided. But a lot of that goes out the window when survivors have communication. That's not to say that killers don't need buffs -- they definitely do. But comms make a HUGE difference.
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Considering I'm not a scumbag, I don't use Moris, nor do a lot of killers, but most games I load into have survivors with keys, maps and toolboxes. Also to say that maps aren't survivor sided is a joke, worst case I've had was on groaning storehouse, there was jungle gyms separated by a mere unsafe pallet. Also shelter woods? Yeah, there isn't that many safe pallets, but there is a ######### ton of unsafe ones, and all the gens are separated, I can agree with dead dawg, unless it's Vs a 4 man blendettes, and also, chapel? Is that a ######### joke? The size of that map combined with the amount of windows and pallets near the middle is ridiculous. Also, just quickly, name a map that has "deadzone after deadzone"
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The game is killer sided based on the average result. Personally I expect nothing less than a 4k. A 2k feels like a complete loss at this point because I'm so used to getting EVERYONE.
At the highest level of play however the game is survivor sided because technically it is always possible to run the killer long enough for the team to pump out a few 80 second gens.
Yesterday I got tunneled into oblivion by a Huntress and after 2 min 40sec the 5th gen popped. That's only 3 survivors doing gens since I didn't get to even touch a gen at all.
That's how quick gens can fly if people didn't mess around all the time. If all survivors were THAT fast with the gens the whole game design would look A LOT different on both sides.
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The game is determined by the skill of the survivors. Good survivors will be able to consistently beat the killer, and killer's at high rank experience this often. It's also why at high ranks virtually all killers run corrupt intervention, pop goes the weasel, and BBQ and Chili, because you need these perks to have a chance to control the gens when the survivors are at a high skill level.
At low survivor skill level, the games are killer sided. This is because the survivors make lots of mistakes that the killer capitalizes on and creates too much pressure for the survivors as a team to handle. This is what makes games feel "killer sided," but fundamentally it is a misunderstanding that it isn't "killer sided" it is that the survivors are just bad.
The two worlds at the ends of the survivor skill level are like night and day.
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It depends on the killer you play against and how good he is. A good looper, can just extend the chase very long, so you have to abandon that guy and go for the others.
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The game HAS to be harder for killers, it’s a 1v4 it’s just the way it is. Your mistakes as killer SHOULD be 4 times more impactful compared to a survivor making mistakes.
Also have you played Solo survivor?? If you balance this game around high level SWF players you’ll simply kill the game for the majority of the playerbase. I still get solo games where my whole team loses to the “weak” Wraith, Ghostface, Trapper etc...
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Gonna be 'that guy', but I feel like this is a very gross oversimplification of the game.
The game being weighted very heavily towards killer or survivor depends on so many factors- the skill of the killer and survivors, what killer is being played on what map, what their add-ons are, what either side has for perks, what the offerings and items are, etc, etc.
At it's highest level at base, yes, the game is heavily Survivor sided. If you're playing a sub-par (or just misplay) against a sweaty SWF who treat every game like a tournament, you're either going to have to sweat your ass off, DC, or get bullied for ten minutes.
However, at the same time, not every game is sweaty SWF. And when you do play those games with really good add-ons against good (but still not 100% optimal or coordinated) survivors, and it can be an absolute massacre.
Personally, I play both sides (Rank 1 Survivor, Rank 4 killer rn). And my killer games are a mixed bag, depending on the factors above. My survivor games, on the other hand, solo-queue or not, are generally along the massacre side. We usually only get a 1 man escape, and we'll get a few 3 man escapes a night, but it's rare to see anything more then that.
So yes, Survivor is the power role because the Devs push the idea of this being a 'competitive' game, but when you bring key competitive aspects into it (like comms) the system breaks. Outside of that, the game is really well balanced, and in a lot of ways, it is killer sided. (I get why killers do it, but man does it suck to be facecamped at five gens as you watch your other survivors eat beans in the corner instead of doing gens. Or to get mori'd off of first hook because you were found immediately at the start of the game, made a bad play, and then got tunneled and now have less then 5k points to show for the match.)
The game isn't really strictly sided one way or another imho. There's too many things that make the game random (along with fun and interesting to play) that changes the game so much on a match by match basis, that it's just shifting based off the match.
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The game is killer sided until you get to green ranks, balanced more or less purple through red, and survivor sided in the highest level of play (4 skilled survivors on comms).
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You are a pompous ass. If you don't have the DLC just buy them...
Not everyone has a mummy or daddy to step in when they need money. Some of us have to work and have people to support. So maybe don't have spare cash for a video game.
You completely missed his point though. Some of the best survivor perks are free from the get go, whilst the best killer perks are all locked behind a pay wall.
So survivors get the advantage of headsets and always knowing when it's safe to do gens/unhooks, as well as the best perks from the offset. Whilst a killer who doesn't have rich parents or lack of responsibilities has to cross his fingers that it shows up in the shrine?
Yeah, definitely balanced... (<Sarcasm)
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With all the responses, idk if it's been said already, but the main thing I can think of is if a tunneling killer brings in an Ebony Mori.
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How i see it is at the start it is survivor sided but once a few survivors die the power role goes to the killer
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I am a pompous ass because of what? Buying the DLCs? Are you drunk?
If you want to have something, buy it. If you dont have the money for it, safe it and work for it and dont blow it out for whatever stuff.
When i was a kid / young adult back in the 80s and 90s, videogames for console costed about 100 Dollar where i lived. The value of this would be more then 200 Dollar / Euro nowadays. I worked for a single game during summer just to be able to buy this for my 8 or 16 bit nintnedo. A normal walkthrough was maybe a few hours. Was i complaining? Heck no, it was awesome.
Today you get a game you can spend thousends of hours for almost free. Dead by Daylight costed a few $/€ on sale ... and DLCs are the same. If you get them all on sale, you spend maybe 50€ for a game+DLCs... and you can play them for YEARS and devs still deliver and update content. Even if it would be 200 € Its an absolute joke to complain about.
And on top of it, you can even get perks and DLCs for free on the shrine. You can even buy most dlcs for free, so again whats the problem mate?
And to talk about "advantage" because the better perks you have to "buy"... so when they rework some perks what they do right now and all the best killer perks suddenly are "free" and for all the good survivor perks we have to spend money on suddenly... are we then complaining about the same but this time survivors are the kacked? Just pointless, sorry.
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It's a horrible game to try to manage balance. It's a 1 vs. 4 so, the Killer needs to be OP and be able to win a majority of chases or, Killer wouldn't be fun and, only the best players would actually play Killer.
Trying to beat red rank Killers as a solo is not easy and, people generally like to play games with their friends if they can. At any point the Killer can use dirty tactics to secure kills, face camps, basement camps, slugging, ect.
As a survivor main, I find the game becomes less fun once I hit purple and red ranks. I either have to play SWF to have decent games or, I solo que and de-pip back to green ranks.
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Well everyone makes it sound like survs win just by logging into the match, so what does it matter what player is it. Seriously though : I do my job in trial, help others, and yet it all means nothing. Therefore sthg is wrong.
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Yes you are still a pompous ass. Once again you talk about saving money when you were a kid and suggest that I am blowing my money on other things.
What I am saying is that you are obviously privileged if you think everyone is in the same situation where they blow money on things.
I make sacrifices so that the people I love can eat and have some of the nice things in life like internet and mobile phones.
I don't have money, not because I am blowing it, because I spend every penny looking after my family.
I play video games occasionally to de-stress. So when I see that a game gives out the best perks for free for one team, while the other has the best perks hidden behind a pay wall, I would consider that an advantage for one side over the other.
Can you honestly say that this isn't the case? Can you honestly argue that this isn't a blatant advantage?
If so then there is no point in continuing this discussion. You will always believe that the game is perfectly balanced because you had money to 'blow' on DLC.
Just so you know. I have so little money I didn't even buy this game, my friend bought it for my birthday so we'd have something to play together. Not everyone has the same opportunities as you. Suggesting that a game is balanced because you can just spend more money on it is stupid.
By that logic Battlefront 2 by EA was a perfectly balanced game with all of its loot boxes and micro-transactions.
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Cuz somehow to them running in circles and pressing a single button for almost everything is harder then anything 😂
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That's subjective and swf was always intended.
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Perks:
You shouldn't have to wait for when the devs think a DLC perk should be on the shrine. BBQ itself has only appeared roughly 2-3 times on the shrine. There are a lot of free perks (Agitation, Lightborn, Enduring) are quite common.
Besides, comms will outweigh any perks a killer can have any day.
Items:
Items are only as useful as the survivor using it. I have used toolboxes to complete 1 crucial gen extremely quickly, while others waste it as the progress earned is removed.
Keys get stronger based on how many people die + how many gens get done. Moris do not. They can even be detrimental if a key (or someone with plunderers instinct) exists. It is infuriating to have a game in your control after a tough tug of war, only to have the remaining survivors leave via the hatch, which they can even control now through offerings. It is just ridiculous.
Tiles/Maps:
Saloon is not killer sided. I would call it neutral, as it depends on how both sides act. Coldwind can be very survivor sided as well, Both Yamaokas are survivor sided... but that is not the issue. Many of the tiles are easy to loop from one to another, even for a bad survivor like myself, and many are way too safe. And boring. There is no intensity if there are no stakes, and these tiles often rob the stakes from the chase, as you know you will just get to a vault or a pallet, taking you out of danger.
Bugs:
Survivors needed the nerfs, as there was no medium vault, there was no momentum mechanic (which I think needs a rework), every window was open, general infinites, and exhaustion went down even if you were running... it was legitimately an unfair situation at the time. It is not perfect balance yet, but it is a far sight better than it used to be.
I almost forgot to mention, but gens used to take 40 seconds, and BNPs completed an entire gen.
Tru3talent has a video of DBD in 2016. I would recommend watching it before listing off the survivor nerfs as a defense.
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