Rift grind too much?
Did some math about the rift and came up with some interesting numbers.
Tier 1 - 20 challenges 88shards
Tier 2 - 20 challenges 88 shards
Tier 3 - 20 challenges 76 shards
Tier 4 - 20 challenges 76 shards
Total 328 shards
Completion awards 40 shards. Thats 368 shards total.
At 80 challenges, going to average 1.5 games per challenge and 1 shard a game is another 120 shards which brings us to 488 shards.
Now you need total 700 shards to complete the rift. Subtracting the 488 from the total gives us 212 shards needed to finish the rift.
You have 70 days to finish the rift. So 212 divided by 70 is 3.028571428 games played per day.
So if starting from day 1 and completeing 1.1 challenges a day, you would need to play roughly 4.5 games a day to complete the rift in 70 days.
Doesn't seem so bad to me.
Edit-i am unable to create a new discussion in general discussions for some reason so had to take an older thread and repurpose it
Comments
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I just went based off the average performance I see amongst all the killers I tend to play (which admittedly is most of them). Though using whomever makes the game perform the worst as a baseline might also make sense, as ideally no content should be so unoptimized as to be "unplayable".
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What do you all think?
Post edited by csandman1977 on0 -
Have ti bump since I can't create new topics
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Sorry I didn't see this sooner, I think this is a seriously valid discussion that I think the community should be talking about more frequently. It's entirely within our right as consumers to discuss and criticize a company if they overstep their boundaries by clearly milking their customer base. This I believe, is exactly what is happening in at least one aspect of the rift.
The real problem with the rift is that you can't complete all 70 levels by completing every single challenge. Completing every single challenge all the way to level 4 in a tome only on average gets you to around level 60-65 in my experience as well as from the testimony of other players. (It won't be the same for everyone because everyone spends a different amount of time on challenges, the longer you spend doing challenges the more shards you'll have earned purely because you're playing more. Whereas someone who is really skilled (or just lucky) and blazes through all the challenges may have them completed, but have still spent a less total time earning shards naturally through gameplay so you'll actually have less by the time you finish the rift just because you finished it so quickly).
The real problem is those last few levels, anywhere from the last 5-10 levels you have to grind COMPLETELY on your own without the benefit of finishing challenges to speed up the process. The end is undoubtedly the longest part of the rift and the grind is absolutely god awful long, it takes 10 fragments to finish just one level, even if let's assume you manage to earn one fragment per game (which is unrealistic, nobody performs that well that consistently) you're still looking at playing at the very least a total of 50-100 matches. let's say you are on level 60 and need to get to level 70, 100 matches with let's say 10 minutes per match (they can easily go for shorter or for longer than this, both outcomes affect how much XP you earn toward your shards, but for the sake of simplicity we'll stick to 10 minutes). That means you're spending a total of 1000 minutes grinding, or in other words: 16.67 HOURS. May as well round up to 17 hours considering the time you spend waiting in queue, loading into the match itself, time you spend picking your build or killer, etc.
And that's if you're consistently getting 1 fragment per match! Realistically that's going to vary by quite the large margin, maybe you go up against a Huntress with iridescent head or a pro Nurse, or Spirit, and the game ends extremely early, Maybe you're playing killer and you're lose completely to the 4-Man-SWF-Blendette Squad, or a single person brings a Key in the match, or everyone is running Unbreakable + Decisive Strike and you can't pressure anybody, and you lose the match. Winning and losing has an effect on your shard gain, if you lose, obviously you get less.
So realistically, it's going to take MORE than 17 hours, it might take 25 or 30 instead. Of course this is if you've completed all the levels by tier 60 in the rift, say you're at level 63 instead, that's usually where I find myself when I finish all the levels, around there. 10 rift fragments per level (earned per match) x 7 levels is 70 matches x 10 minute matches is 700 minutes / 60 minutes for every hour and I'll be grinding for at least 12 hours and only if I'm playing PERFECTLY. Likely I'll be spending a similar 15-25 hours to complete it normally.
This isn't fun, this intense grind for shards where I feel like I'm wasting my time playing well beyond what I normally would per day for these last few tiers anywhere between 60-70 is god awful. Even though, I went out of my way to complete every survivor challenge, every killer challenge, every master challenge, and it still feels like I'm getting the shaft. I can only imagine it must be far worse for people who don't play both roles, have every perk unlocked at tier 3 for maximum output and efficiency on at least one character for both killer and survivor, or are super experienced and know the best builds or strategies to complete every challenge.
It's not impossible by any means, (if you've got plenty of FREE TIME) but it sure as damn hell is unsatisfying. As a player there should be some kind of reward for doing every single objective that the devs challenged you to do, you honestly should make it to tier 70 or at the very least something like tier 65-68 and then you grind the last 2-5 levels on your own, instead of 5-10. It frustrates me to no end that this isn't the case and is very clearly and obviously the dev's way of getting you to shell out a few dollars to just buy the remaining tiers for a dollar each rather than waste your time trying to grind endlessly for it.
I get that "they're a business" but seriously, the game is far successful enough on it's own with plenty of other sources of income from chapters, to licensed characters, to cosmetics (some of which can only be bought with real money) and most egregiously "Legendary Skins" (which are no different in quality than the very rare skins that we've been receiving for four years already now) which are 3/4th's the price of the damn base game. They have all this already, there shouldn't be a need to force these last few tiers down the throats of players who took the time and the effort to complete every challenge in all four levels of a Tome.
Post edited by Seiko300 on12 -
it's a looong process, but if you want the premium you get all your shards back to use on the next rift. Don't invest until it's complete. If you only are playing for the free content you shouldn't care. I would like a bonus of some sort for 100%ing each of the 4 sections and all 4 as well. It wouldn't need to be much, but it would be nice. I would like higher rift fragments for the later sections. I only have 3/4 challenges left. only 1 is worth 5 fragments "devour challenge" and I'm only at 58
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I think it was a great idea adding the premium and letting everyone earn back the cells. They thought what if everyone invested $10. That would be a huge revenue and they could keep it in game to earn cosmetics over and over for years to come. win win ;)
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As an,average player i have been arguing that the grind isnt as bad as many make it to be. It often takes me more than 2 or 3 games on a challenge. The near miss challenge ive played 7 games and have gotten 2 of 5 despite a 60 ping. Dead hard only works when this challenge isnt selected. And apparently stunning a killer trying to swing through a pallet doesnt count.
However i do see your point on challenges. I play so few games with battlepasses, however one game i play gives rewards where if you finish the challenges give you more xp then needed so they offer extra rewards.
From what i calculated, its worse to do 5 challenges a day. Just do 1 or 2 and play a few games and there wont be as much of a grind. IF you play daily. I dont. Im on 50 and have 18 challenges to go.
Though to be fair, the devout one sucks. 9 hooks and a 4k or you dont get it. Im just not that good lol
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342 remaining fragments I hope Dev will do something such as double or triple xp or anything that can support players.
Post edited by Shi on1 -
342 not 3420. Its 5 games a day
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While it's a common thing that comes up with the concept of battlepasses that people are "entitled to finish them" because they paid their initial $10 for the first one AFTER already purchasing their base game. Fortnite popularized the model and plenty of other companies use it to different degrees - some removing the renewing reward for finishing the pass each time... others making use of it to produce longevity.
It's made in a way in this way to encourage "F2P" players to no life the game producing a stable playerbase who keep playing their multiplayer game. With the lack of a single player campaign or missions, games like this literally die once they become a ghosttown so keeping some people grinding out 700+ games is actually the goal.
The rewards are purely cosmetic (most being random charms that are hardly noticeable especially on survivors). People who really want them will buy the additional levels (that are cheaper with more rift levels completed) as they near the end of the rift time knowing they get some of the auric cells back as well.
The "minimum investment" return for keeping players grinding to Rift 70 every time, keeping them playing the game longer is perfectly fine even as grindy as it feels. Like other battlepasses it's purely optional and doesn't effect gameplay at all and as microtransactions go are pretty healthy with how this one handles it.
A better thread would probably address perk tiers, bloodwebs, bloodpoint grind, iridescent shard grind which is horrendous in a different way considering how the game has gotta loaded with more stuff over the years (new releases mostly). The grind for that "gameplay" stuff takes literal thousands of hours to unlock everything without dropping some additional cash for chapters
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Thank you, Sry i miss understand.
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All good. Although if it was 70 games a day I dont think there would be anybody defending it lol
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Set aside challenges and you have 342 fragments to get from playtime alone. However, you also get a bonus 300xp per day for your first killer and survivor matches. So let's assume you do at least one match of each daily and set that aside. That's 1600xp per day (500 match xp + 300 bonus for each), which is 2 fragments. That's potentially 140 fragments off of the 342 you need, leaving 202 fragments purely from playtime.
202 x 800 = 161,600xp
Assuming you get 500xp per match (you can get up to 600, but I'll just assume the lower end):
161600 / 500 = 323.2 matches total
323.2 / 70 = ~4.6 matches per day
Add back the 2 matches per day you're already playing for the daily bonus and you get 6.6 matches per day. So basically between 6 and 7 matches per day, assuming you do all your challenges during those matches.
That said, the problem here is that it's also assuming that someone will be playing EVERY DAY for 70 days, which just isn't viable or desirably for most people. I've been kind of burnt out on the game lately and started playing other games and as such I'm at the point where I'll need to play 13-14 games per day to finish, which is 2-4 hours per day. It just feels like a chore.
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why i'm so confused.
500 xp = 1 round
800 xp = 1 fragment
8000 xp = 1 tier
therefore 8000 / 500 = 16
16 rounds = 1 tier
342 fragments = 34.2 tiers
therefore 16 x 34.2 = 547.2 rounds
547.2 / 70 days = 7.81 or 8 round per day
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I just seem to get a fragment after every game. So thats why I say 1 per game.
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You can't get 1 shard a game, since at most you get 600xp in a match (except in the first match of the day as either role, since you get bonus xp) and you need 800xp to get one shard. You need at least 3 matches to get 2 shards. In the long run, it makes a difference.
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I've been kind of burnt out on the game lately and started playing other games and as such I'm at the point where I'll need to play 13-14 games per day to finish, which is 2-4 hours per day. It just feels like a chore.
Behaviour when they see that your will is broken and that you are now more likely than before to buy battlepass tiers with money
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0-800 first game 900xp 1 shard
100-800 - 600 XP no shard
700-800 - 600 XP 1 shard
500-800 - 600 xp 1 shard
300 - 800 - 600xp 1 shard
100-800 - first game other role 900xp 1 shard
200-800 - 600xp 1 shard
0 - 800 - 600 XP no shard
600-800 - 600xp 1 shard.
I know you dont always get 600 XP but there are more games where you get shards then when you dont.
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Okay so considering how I was out of school and had ######### all to do since March my opinion here is definitely invalid but I finished the rift with, like, 36 days left to go.
This was playing the game practically 24/7 since June 16th though, when I got my new PC, and I had some progress before then. I'm very, very, very aware that the average player can't do that, and now college has started up I physically can't do that either (also, unrelated, law is a very difficult subject). I wouldn't be opposed to lowering the grind either.
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I still don't think that it needs shortening or at most very little. I didn't play at all for a couple of weeks at the start and I finished yesterday. I'm aware that's not average at all, but I'm a very sporadic player. I'll play for 8 hours, then 2 the next day, then none for a few days. I still work up to 50 hours a week and go out with friends, so idk
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So this is why the 4th battlepass seems so hard for me...
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^^
This last paragraph specifically is what I want to focus on, honestly the idea that someone will be playing every day for 70 days straight is absolutely ludicrous. Very few people can do that and even those that can probably don't actually want to, I absolutely agree that nowadays it feels more like a chore vs. two years ago where I was playing and supporting the game because I wanted to and had fun doing it. Now, I frequently find myself ignoring the other games that I like to play or would like to play because "I gotta grind for the rift!!" and that is such a sucky feeling.
It honestly ruins my perspective on the game and the people behind it, as I see less of them, and more of the money grabbing, greedy, faceless company that feeds off our passion for something that was and still is actually kinda cool.
More often than not, when a tome ends I feel liberated, and I savor the weeks between tomes almost as if it's like my "vacation" from the game. I'll still play during that time, but FAR less than what I was when a tome was active, and yet at the same time I'll find that I enjoy the game significantly more during this time despite playing it less. When a new tome starts it's like "well, back to work..." and I think to myself why do I feel this way about a game I really like? That's horrible, and no game should ever make you feel that way where it's almost as if you dread coming back to play it.
If the devs have an ounce of soul and integrity, they'll hopefully do something to change this.
In the short term, maybe. But eventually it'll backfire, repeated burnout in the long term is not good for the longevity of any game, and eventually that burnout compiles and compounds on top of itself until eventually they lose a player completely. Then a second, and a third, and eventually player counts start dropping, maybe not significantly at first, but noticeably, enough that people take notice and that's when the game and the devs behind it do something to fix their mistakes, or double down and watch everything they've built slowly crumble.
I could just be being dramatic, making a mountain out of a molehill. Then again, every avalanche begins with the movement of a single snowflake.
I dunno, it is what it is. I really hope they do something to fix it- actually I'll set the bar even lower, just to alleviate it, not to fix it.
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The grind is too much. I still have about 10 levels left, so I'll be real busy the next 2 weeks.
The challenges never cover enough distance, and the games while attempting challenges don't cover the difference either.
I know this is a personal thing, and some won't be like this, but the burnout is making me quit all of DbD as soon as I reach the max level. The break between rifts feels nice though.
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Its way too much. I missed out on 30 days play time due to PC issues and I have no possible way of completing it. I'm only at rift rank 40 with 15 days to go.
I'm just happy I didn't waste any money on it. Though I would have if I'd had enough time (really wanted the Nurses gas mask)
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I want to play other things.
The Rift is such a slog that I go missing for two months simply because I don't want to deal with it. And now I have to deal with it again.
I finished Red Dead Online's battle pass in a fraction of the time and they have 80 tiers. That was when all the animals were still missing.
And what exactly is the plan for the old Rift items? Not a single charm outside of it has been sold in the shop. Some of the free track items don't even belong to anything.
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