Corrupt & Pop, fair or unfair?
Introduction
Hello, I don't usually make posts like this but it's a interesting discussion I would like to bring to the table today. Today, I want to present the question of if Corrupt & Pop when used together is fair or not.
Of course other combos like that in the past have existed like Ruin & Pop or Thanato & Pop, but this one for some reason gets the most attention since Ruin was nerfed. It's all things considered the "spiritual successor" to the Ruin & Pop combo of the past.
But enough of my rambling, let's get right into it.
"Why is this question even being asked?"
I always considered that players can use whatever they want, despite how disliked they may be by you or I. But some perk combos are sometimes considered TOO extreme for use, especially when on specific Killers that don't need them.
Perks like Unbreakable + DS is a good example of something that's considered "disliked by most". And the advanced version (Unbreakable + DS + Soulguard) is considered to be worse to face. Now without going into detail as to why people dislike that perk combo, it's just an example to what I present today.
Perks like Corrupt and Pop are a staple of the meta and a lot of Killers use them to combat strong teams or to just stay in the meta of what's most used. Does that mean you're "bad" for using them or that it's unfair to use them? Well, that's what I present to you all today.
some backstory
During a match I found some above average Survivors to face against my Blight. Now my Blight isn't really the best it can be at the moment and definitely wasn't at that time. I can usually hold my own against a good team usually getting a decent margin if they're fairly coordinated, the RNG of the map and the scenarios I'm in. But in the end I was only able to down one and the rest escaped (They DC'ed but they were on death hook so).
After the match in post-chat a lot of harsh things were said towards me, some I won't be repeating for the sake of the rules, but one comment stuck out among the rest "corrupt pop", followed by some harsh words that I can't repeat. At the end I actually was happy to face a coordinated team and was glad to be able to face one while training my Blight.
Now you could just chop that up to being a distasteful experience with a toxic team, but it actually made me start thinking if Corrupt & Pop are actually required on someone like The Blight. So ever since I took it off The Blight and just used Corrupt. But again, it still made me wonder if such a combo is fair on The Blight or even any Killer for that matter.
Final thoughts + your opinions
Now of course some Killers need the extra help and Corrupt + Pop is used a lot to help with that, but I would like to have a civil discussion about how the combo really affects gameplay for coordinated to average to casual teams. I would love to hear about what you guys honestly think about the combo, if you think it's fair, what you might want to change if you don't like it, etc.
It would be really interesting to hear your opinions and maybe I'll even learn a thing or two from it! As always stay safe out there, see you in the fog...
Comments
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I also don't know why this was posted here, hopefully it'll get moved to General where I was originally posting it...
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It's fair. Corrupt intervention is a perk that is countered by simply waiting it out, or when someone's chased, you can do the generators.
Pop goes the weasel is a very well designed perk, since it rewards the killer for doing their objective (that's why I think adrenaline and deliverance are fair as well).
People run these 2 perks together, because they patch some of the generator problems, or use them on a killer with no mobility. Sure, this build might be too op on nurse or spirit, but it's fair on the rest of the roster.
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I'd say its fair, its not like they have a particularly special synergy. Just 2 decent slowdown perks working together well.
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A fair analysis.
Perhaps players dislike it because of how Corrupt works, which makes players not instantly work on a gen they spawned near, pairing it with Pop might cause some players to dislike the perk even more since the 4 gens they CAN work on are susceptible to being regressed heavily after someone is downed and hooked.
Right, it's not really that hard to work around it. But perhaps people dislike it for the reason above, they simply hate being forced to go to another gen that's farther away and closer to the Killer. Pairing it with Pop might make that opinion worsen due to how Pop works with the 4 active gens they CAN work on.
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Oh yeah, any perk that forces you to play right into the enemys hands or lose a lot of your work is bound to generate hate.
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The problem with Pop is simply that most people don't adapt their playstyle. Many like to sit on gens as long as possible, giving the killer an easy time to get into chase. And giving the killer the chance to end chases quickly, activating Pop regularly and in a timeframe that doesn't allow survivors to get any progress on gens. Combined with the over altruistic behavior of people rather going for a hook exchange than sitting on a gen at least 10 seconds before going for the unhook, it makes it a pain to go against Pop.
I think in these games, especially against Slinger, PH or other killer that end chases fast, you simply need to play cat and mice, early running from killer to gain a lot of distance and making the killer even consider not chasing you. And of course instantly returning on gens as soon as you notice the killer leaves.
I think it is fair to use this combo. Two perks are gone for gen control, leaving less perk slots for information/tracking and chase. You could play against that, but either need to be a god looper or the team to adapt, and on both you need to be lucky if it is the case.
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I mean most of this community just has a huge ego that doesn't match their delusions of how the game went. Played survivor vs a R1 Demogorgon today who got a total of 2 downs in a 9 minute match with myself looping him for almost 3 minutes of that alone without going down. I usually just type gg and move on but he started going off in chat to myself and the 2 other PC randoms (4th person being a console player) about "OP perks like Dead Hard, tryharding with brown medkits, people who can't loop but just gen rushing every killer to not being able to enjoy the game, etc etc" I asked how exactly we "gen rushed" him over a 9 minute match where he chased directly behind the survivor including vaulting through windows and applying no pressure to any objectives - also having his ruin stay up the entire match and never getting value from that on Ironworks. He of course called me a "moron entitled survivor main who only knows how to M1" though I was the one who was looping him most of the match.
Same thing comes up when I play killer hooking someone with BBQ - I purposely let the guys I see BEELINING for the hook get their rescue since I can see gens being worked on that I want to go Pop anyway. I'm fine with them rescuing and healing, no need to hover camp or face camp or come back to redown the easy down hook trade sometimes... I like treating survivors like bloodpoint produce... can't pick them too early you only get half the yield. This "should" be a healthy gameplay interaction - everyone gets to be chased fairly, everyone gets to play but you wouldn't know it from the amount of post chat vitrol I get in half the matches win or lose. It's funny enough to read but I wonder if small group of us are playing a completely different game from the majority
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Corrupt + pop is fair, in the sense that it's fairly small pp but no content creator called it that so it's all good. I run it on most on my m1 killers without a care in the world because this is dead by daylight, not measuring pps by daylight.
On strong killers it's overkill against the overwhelming majority of survivor teams, so it's something that one would run only if they're in the mood of not trying.
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How are you guys able to make threads on this specific forum? It won't let me.
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Mods and Devs can ban people from making certain discussions. Since the forums are bugged currently it doesn't seem too far fetched that its glitched and applies to others.
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Why can they do literally nothing right?
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Annoying, but not unfair. It has counterplay, after all, and it isn't that difficult. Spread out early and do the unblocked gens, then stack 2 to a gen and the killer only had a 48 second window to interrupt you.
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After 2 mins you are playing with 3 perks. Not op
But to be fair , I don't think blight needs corrupt. he has the mobilty to patrol the 7 gens at start
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At the moment they are still determining researching what to do. So you just gotta hang in there for a little while. Sorry man.
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Yeah... like another perk that we all will never stop hearing about...
It does feel that way sometimes, how some players are playing a version of the game THEY see while others are just trying to play the game itself. This usually results in the questions I asked and the scenarios you brought up, where perks that're disliked are seen as unfair, but they do have counter-play around them that lots of Survivors or Killers use to avoid them.
I can't say every perk has that luxury, but we're all entitled to use whatever we see fit for our matches. Whether other players will accept that is... up to them honestly. But to be clear, of course someone can dislike a perk and be reasonable behind it, it's just when it goes into the realms of toxicity is when it turns into a issue.
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Well I think the DS + Unbreakable combo is named that for a reason, in my opinion Corrupt + Pop is at least more reasonable in regards to what can be done to work around it. But DS + Unbreakable is another discussion, the point is you're right, this is just a game and it doesn't really matter. We can all use what we want, we can all dislike what we dislike, the only issue that comes from that is when some start to be toxic about it... which unfortunately does happen I'm afraid.
Like SCP said you'll unfortunately have to wait on that issue my man. I'm facing the same issue when posting in General Discussions, this is the only place that was the most reasonable to work with, but it's not where I was originally going to post I'm afraid.
Edit: The post was moved to General so that's good, but I don't think I'm able to post in General still unfortunately.
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After the Ruin nerf, it's fair.
If we still had Old Ruin + Corrupt + Pop, then that would be waaay too much + Undying lol oh man.
But yes, it's fair. 100%.
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I honestly don't remember people using Corrupt and Ruin at the same time. I think I tried that once and thought it was a waste of a perk slot. So after that I never did it again, since it honestly wasn't worth it anyways.
Ruin & Pop was already a strong combo so... It wasn't really needed to use Corrupt either. Honestly Corrupt was mostly ignored until Ruin was nerfed, so at least Corrupt has assumed it's role now as a more reasonable slow-down perk. I can't really say if that build is even OP, probably on someone like Spirit or Pre-nerf Nurse yeah.
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yes, fair.
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Corrupt + Pop rewards Killers for playing well or punishes survivors for playing badly.
DS + Unbreakable on the other hand, rewards survivors for playing badly.
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I’d say unfair, it’s something I refuse to use just like DS + Unbreakable.
It’s mainly on pop tbh, I think pop is just too impactful on the match and I wouldn’t be upset whatsoever if it were nerfed. When it’s stacked with other slowdown like this, it’s just stupid. Even if you hypothetically did something like reduce pop’s value by 10% per kick, and then made it so kicking a gen applied an automatic 5% regression, it’d be healthier for the game overall. Pop is just way too impactful on matches right now, to the point I only run it on lower tier killers and even then I feel bad and I’m pretty much trying to cut it out all together
If surge got the buff it deserves, and wasn’t only basic attack, I’d never run it
Also I will clarify I main killer, apparently only an entitled survivor main would want pop nerfed, so I feel the need to state this
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Surge should've honestly been stronger out the window, but I personally disagree that Pop is TOO impactful to the game itself. The only scenarios it really shines is with a 90% progressed gen that Survivors keep tapping, getting downed at, and not learning from the mistake of tapping it again so the Killer just re-kicks it for another 25% regression penalty.
Although I can see what you mean by it being not healthy for the game, since it's primarily used in a lot of meta builds which stifles variety. Of course on some Killers it's needed, the same with Corrupt being needed on Killers like Myers who need a start up, but combining them together only really starts to cause issues if the team is already being pressured by multiple downs, which rewards the player with the ability to regress nearby gens.
If a Killer goes across the map to kick a 90% gen, they're only suffering from a Survivor being unhooked, healed, and other Survivors doing other gens. Even if the gen gets kicked and they're fine, a Survivor could be there to just re-gain that progress. But is the perk OP? In my opinion no, but I can see what you mean when Corrupt is applied to it. I suppose it really just depends on how impactful it's to YOU as the Killer/Survivor. Hopefully this didn't come off as a counter-opinion, I do appreciate the insight of (what seems to be) an "unpopular opinion" among the comments here.
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Yeah I understand, and I'd like to re-clarify my point to be a bit clearer. I don't think PGTW is OP, it doesn't make the game unwinnable. The problem with it being too impactful is the difference between a killer running it and not running it, which is why until hex: undying was added, you saw PGTW more often than you saw old ruin. It was in basically any game. It just does too much compared to the basekit that if you really care about winning, you'd be stupid not to run it. I wouldn't even mind if you reduced pop by 5% to a 20% regression, and buffed basekit gen kick to 5%. Unlike my last comment, this wouldn't even be a pop nerf overall, this would just make it less impactful - I'm sure there's many killer players out there who consider pop mandatory and refuse to play without it, and that really shouldn't be a thing.
IMO genspeeds are perfectly fine, the killer's earlygame however is not fine. Hopefully an earlygame collapse would result in; less stacking slowdown, and perhaps be a good time for a slight pop nerf since 'genspeeds' presumably get a general buff in favour of the killer. With something like an earlygame collapse, pop being reduced to 15%, base kicks being 5% (so pop gets a small 5% overall nerf, it'll do an additional 15% ontop of the 5%) - I think the killer's perk diversity and the game could be in a much healthier state. Rn I think the perk metas are extremely stale and boring on both sides (second chance stack/slowdown stack).
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I'm a little confused why you put these 2 together. They don't really synnergize with eachother at all.
The only reason you see them so often together cause they are the last good and reliable slowdown perks we had before undying released
To answer the question i think it's fair. They are fair on their own, the only reason pop can be a issue is when survivors keep tapping gens to allow killers the pop consistently
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Both are just bandaids for potential too quick gens after the Ruin change.
Both can be countered if you're on comms (wait out the Corrupt and know when to rush a gen vs. POP).
Both are strong vs. solo teams, but i still apriciate the preparation time to get my Inner Strenght, Chest, whatever.
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I think they´re perfectly fine and balanced tbh. The reasoning why they´re so frequently used boils down to the inability of the vast majority of available Killers to actually being able to contest gens and pressure the map.
Now if you take stronger Killers into consideration like say Nurse, Spirit or Freddy the strength of these perks rises. They are not as reliant on them as the other 16+ Killers but use them very well due to their innate ability to pressure the map.
Another aspect is the difference in effectiveness against Solo vs SWF, but I guess this isn´t exclusive to this topic.
If stall perks were to be nerfed any further the high rank meta would narrow down even more, since all Killers except three or four of them would be left without any tools to fight back against genspeeds.
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All is fair in love and war.
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I find this a weird question to ask.
If I was to touch them at all, it would be a buff (Corrupt), not a nerf. Pop is one of the most balanced killer perks in the game and Corrupt is generally not even that good, it's literally only used because it's the only option available when it comes to early slow down.
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I run Corrupt Intervention and Pop Goes the Weasel when climbing ranks. The game doesn't really play the same after the Ruin nerf--pallets also got drastically reduced, toolboxes, and Great skill checks got nerfed as well. While there's less things to slow down the survivors, there's less pallets to slow down the killer.
At the upper end, where survivors are significantly more bold to repair near you, and at all costs, you still need something to gain your advantage. You could always resort to the "3 Gen" strat, but I hate doing that as a killer. It's easy to setup by just waiting, and then you just patrol all three. Run Overcharge and Unnerving Presence, and you can basically shut them down and kill the survivors by attrition.
I prefer to actually go out and hunt, though, and I can't have pressure everywhere before I start rolling hooks and injuries.
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It has never crossed my mind when I've lost a match where a killer was running those that they were the reason I died, and definitely not because they were run together. 😂
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Blatantly unfair on killers, especially on one like Freddy. You can't compare survivor perks to these perks because they are extremely situational and have ample counterplay whereas killer perks are multiple uses or always getting benefit with many have no counterplay. Tinkerer, rewards the killer for survivors actually playing the game. No survivor perks can compare to what killers have and are so strong they can guarantee killers a victory every game.
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I would say it only begins to feel stupid on a forever freddy in a solo group. Other than that, itd two perks slots dedicated to slowdown that are heavily reliant on a killer getting consistent hooks. And you can just hide and wait out corrupt. you lose no pressure if the killer doesnt find you
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Id say they're fair but I can definitely see why some might think they are overkill on stronger killers like spirit and nurse. With that said, it simply sounds like those survivors were just salty and looking for an excuse to why you beat them.
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imo thats fair, but it does make you seem sweaty.
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fair but scummy imo, kind of like small pp build for survivors
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I think its fair on m1 killers or set up killers like demo,trapper and hag.It can be pretty strong sometimes on high mobility killers.
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An easy fix I've found is that when making a new discussion click or tap on where it says new discussion, and this should bring the option of general discussion.
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Fair I like using them as killer but if a killer uses them and complains about DS/UB it's a tad bit hypocritical because that's heavy slowdown no matter how you slice it.
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It's a very fair combination. I like how many people say that corrupt intervention is a gen slowdown perk when it really isn't. It's a map control perk that saves you time kind of like Save the Best for Last. It makes the map smaller and allows you to patrol less. It really is the only perk that counters bad map design for only 2 minutes.
Pop goes the weasel rewards killer for doing their objective and punishes survivors for their mistakes. It sees its greatest value when survivors get downed in multiple succession. It's mainly used on high mobility killers because you waste too much time walking up to a gen and kicking it as a low mobility killer.
What makes these two perks good together is that it helps with early and mid/late game. In terms of fairness, I really don't see the problem if you break it down like I did. Enduring/Spirit Fury/Bamboozle/Noed is a much more unfair combo because it rewards killers for survivors outplaying them.
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The forums are run by Vanilla and not by BHVR, so I suggest not blaming them for a problem they can't even control lol.
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Like having a good snowball to be met with an unbreakable, get hit with an unjustified ds then 3 people get adrenalined.
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They are fair. Zero question.
Corrupt only covers gens for 2 minutes, Pop can be countered by a survivor perk. Absolutely fair.
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This is partially brought on by overly coordinated teams of survivors in SWF who can finish two generators before the killer even gets his socks on.
It was also brought on by needlessly massive or convoluted maps where it's nearly impossible to even find survivors at times unless you are 3 genning right off the bat or get lucky.
In response to your post, in an ideal world, you wouldn't need Corrupt. But as things stand, certain killers are just miserable to play without it.
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Corrupt, Pop, & Barbecue are needed for most killers just to play the game normally. Gen speed is trumping killer skill, game after game. When the killer loses after getting 3 hooks, he's a "baby killer", yet was never given enough time to even showcase his skill in chase. And that's because gens are too fast, and these gen regression perks are the only thing mitigating that.
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It's complete overkill in 99% of matches. I don't think it's unfair, but it's a whole lot of gen control you don't need if you shore up other areas of your game. I'm not saying you don't need any slowdown, but lengthening the game won't necessarily make you better. If you're finding that you're losing or struggling whenever you don't have Corrupt+Pop, there is a lot that you're doing wrong.
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Lol u were that blight from that match? Your username sounds familiar
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extrtemely fair and balanced especially ccorrupt, you only need to hide for 2 minutes as most decent groups in hexys tournament did. and there u go the killer is playing with 3 perks the rest of the match, you dont even need to be good just dont get caught so fast by hiding, als oafter 2 mins is gone and pop rewards killer for doing objectives... gens fly away agaisnt decent survivors why wouldnt be slow down perks fair?.
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As survivor I would take Corrupt and Pop over Ruin anyday. Ruin is Legion in perk form.
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Of course it's fair, Corrupt is a terrible perk, but a streamer said it's good so EVERYONE has to buy into it.
Plus as a "combo" they only work together for the first 2 minutes.
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I agree on the small group playing a different game. 80% of killer games I play semi-serious for 2/3 of the match, then farm with a couple people, letting them drop pallets, etc. I pretty much only play to keep my killers maxed and finish P3’ing my survivors. Why people make this game competitive is just silly. Maybe it’s the streamer effect. Maybe it’s ego. Best part is when someone messages you to talk #########, despite the fact that you clearly let them escape
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