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Thoughts on the "you dont face them that often" mindset.
So with yet another nerf to the killer meta, and not a peep about the survivor meta, it made me think about this.
The whole problem with gen speed and the survivor meta is that when it gets used by a swf with comms, it's nearly unbeatable. Now people try to justify this by using the classic "you dont face it THAT often", even though it does happen quite a lot.
My question is why dont we have that same mindset with killers? We nerf anything annoying, and everything needs to be skill based, because apparently every killer in dbd is otz level. How often do you actually face a godlike killer? One that never misses a blink, or never misses a spirit mindgame, or never misses a shot with deathslinger? How often do you get a 3 or 4 man escape, because the killer is just bad?
Why exactly cant we have a strong killer meta, operating under the same idea that 90% of them are potatoes?
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That argument lost all its viability the moment the nerfed the nurse basekit due to god nurses being everywhere with no counterplay and nothing they can do when in reality the godnurse is even less common than the swf with skilled survivors. But you will find people in the forums and in the game that do play the smallpp build on survivor with OoO in swf and think that it is totally balanced. Just accept that most people do not play both roles and are not interested in having a fun game, fun means to bully the other side and that goes for both survivor and killer.
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I really do not want to call double standards in regards to that because I´m genuinely convinced the DEVs are trying to make the game balanced to the best of their ability.
Instances like you are describing or the upcoming change to pop that reads exactly like it was meant to address DS give me a hard time doing so.
I´ve since come to terms with the idea that they design the game to be easier and more accessible as Survivor because they want to please as many players at any given time as possible so they retain lots of new players trying it out. This might also be why they are not looking into the innate balance issues of SWF.
If that´s the case and it works I´m actually kinda fine with it. Let playing Survivor remain easier if it helps DBD thrive.
I feel bad though for newer Killers. What do they get? Not only will they have to invest much more into DLCs to have viable builds but many of them won´t make it through the insane BM and trashtalking in a game that is by design stacked against them. I´d imagine it´s not fun for them getting told to kill themselves every single game for their first 100 matches or so.
Add to that that Killer mains tend to whine a lot, this makes it much harder for the DEVs to identify valid criticism. "Entitled Killermain at it again" when there are clearly certain issues that need to be dealt with.
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I don't know about anyone else, but on the EU server I meet such SWF teams quite OFTEN 🙄
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People dont say you face SWF with coms rarely, people say you face the SWAT Team rarely, the super duper good premades, people who can loop like gods, nail every flashlight save and do the conga line to tank hits with bot-like precission.
I face SWFs every day, I bet most of them are using coms too but most are really manegeable, some are good and very few are very good, I rarely face the SWATs, I could say I get an extremely good SWF once every 5 days maybe or even with a lower frequency. They obviusly stomp me but I dont see that as bad balance, godly SWFs are MUCH better than me, same goes for Killers if I were to face Ortzdaba or Zubat or other very good players, they are far over my league and they would stomp me too, that doesnt mean the game is extremely unbalanced and unplayable.
The only problem I see with average SWFs is they are way more efficient at fixing gens because when someone gets caught only 1 people goes for the save and the other 2 stay fixing gens, with Solos from 0 to 3 can go for a save, wasting efficiency or leaving the teammate to die.
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I'm fine with letting dbd thrive, but its thriving right now, yet the nerf train just keeps on coming. You need both sides to have a game, and survivor queues are already terrible.
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Dude 2 killer nerds is not the end of the world. I could almost swear people forget about the 1-2 year straight survivor nerfs.
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Killers get meta shifting nerfs, survivors get minor tweaks that do nothing.
Tool boxes vs ruin, killers lost. Instaheals vs billy/nurse/spirit, killers lost.
Map changes were negligible.
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I'm going to name a few nerfs that all started from 2.0. Tell me before the buffs currently what were the last survivor buffs?
Vacuum pallet removal (fair but still a nerf)
Window fast vault adjustment
BNP nerf (fair but still a nerf)
Insta heal nerf (fair but still a nerf)
Healing speed nerf
Shortening of most of the filler pallets
Decreasing minimum pallet spawn from 8 to 6
Multiple survivors on a gen speed decrease
Great skill check nerf
Map nerfs
Exhaustion nerf
Balanced landing nerf
MoM nerf (fair but still a nerf)
Losing add ons on escape
Toolboxes killed
Breakable walls on maps (closes good loops and good killers dont break them)
I'm going to leave it at there. There are way more but these are just a few.
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Nice list you got there. All of these were reasonable and neccessary as without those DBD was the most unbalanced game I ever came across. I disagree with certain wordings as they seem a little bit loaded.
Are you upset about these or would you argue the heavy nerfing of Survivors wasn´t justified? Genuinely curious.
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Only ones I'm kinda bummed about is add ons on escape fast vault requirements and great skill check nerf other than that they are fair. My issue is all the damn new killers mains acting like BVHR treats survivors as kings. These buffalo we are getting are the first real ones in years.
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You don't need to face the best players to just have a unfun game. With a killer, that has issues to spot survivors or down em fast, you lose so much time were they do their only objective in the game.
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Fair nerfs dont count. You can look at original nurse or prayer beads spirit, they needed to be changed.
Breakable walls are more of a hindrance to killers, they're basically just pre thrown pallets.
The skill check and multiple people nerf was so minor that it did nothing.
Vaults got buffed with server changes here recently, mom got buffed.
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Well thank you. In my opinion the fast vault changes were justified too, but we can agree to disagree.
I have mixed feeling about the addon changes too. On one hand it´s only fair, given as Killer you lose your addons too.
On the other hand as a Survivor generally speaking less BP are earned, so idk.
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If killers kept add ons they would have infinite iridescent head. Also high bp gains more than make up for it and less cluttered blood webs. It was a terrible change.
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Fair nerfs do count it's still a nerf. It's still making something weaker.
Breakable walls on badham are pre thrown pallets that close off good loops. They arent even a hindrance maybe on dead dog but that was an experiment map.
Skill check nerf was still a nerf. Doesnt matter how you slice or dice.
Vaults were never buffed they were fixed. A fix isnt a buff. MoM was never buffed protection hits were. These are no meaningful buffs as you can still get hit through vaults I have a bunch of clips and MoM is still a ######### to activate.
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The only perk that uses protection hits is mom, so it absolutely got buffed.
If something has been broken for a while, a fix is a buff.
Sure they're nerfs, but it goes back to survivors getting minuscule nerfs and killers getting massive changes. If you cant see that, you're completely biased and there's no point in talking.
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It blows my mind that people say you we don't face these "Swats" consistently. Until the recent update to the MMR, myself and several other Killers that frequent the forums, discord, reddit, and other gaming social media. In groups. All came to the consensus that the only way to keep playing the game at all was play the few top tier killers of; Freedy, Spirit, and Nurse. Not because the survivors were too good, but because the matchmaking would only pit you against 4 man swat teams that will decimate you otherwise. Making the game entirely unfun.
Now the issue with the current meta is if you enjoy playing any of the top tier killers, you simply can't because Freddy, Spirit, and Nurse will always reach the point where they only face 4man SWAT teams. Making all the Killers shrug, and play other killers if they even wanted an inkling at a good game.
In before "But if you win a lot of games as a lower tier killer, wouldn't you get against the 4man swats with that killer?". Yes, but you won't beat them. Lowering your MMR. Making you face weaker survivors and non-premades. Since Freddy, and Spirit are really the only killers that can face swat teams, good players with them will get the mmr to the point where they only face swat teams, and stay there well enough.
The game is entirely broken, and SWF is a big part of it. In addition to that the survivors have far too many free chances, while the Killer has to rely entirely on chance, and skill.
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The devs didn't solve anything with the Nurse and Hillbilly nerfs other than making them less fun to play as (and therefore less popular), so the devs are actively working on the "survivors don't see them that often, so they won't complain" idea.
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Cue "bruh, you're just bad at the game, learn to pressure and git gud, there's no way you're facing swat teams that often, maybe the problem is you"...
I know that feeling all too well, the region I play in is full of them, but no one will acknowledge it, because THEY dont get them, so clearly no one can.
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Also with the addition of cross platform. That has only increased the number of SWF. Also it's common knowledge that this game is better played with Friends as Solo Survivor tends to also be stressful (still not as stressful as Killer)
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True, but I was forged by pc sweatlords, console swf is a fair challenge for me.
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I believe you could get all the SWATs when MMR was activated for highest MMR Killers would face highest MMR Survivors, where most of those guys would end but the MMR was activated for like 2 weeks only? now we are back at ranks and there are way too many rank1 Survivors to pick to be paired only against the strongest SWFs around, Im rank1 Killer myself and I reiterate, I dont get god-SWFs every day.
Once the MMR gets online again the situation may switch again, but thats in the future.
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Ranks don't matter anymore dude. Why would you even try to bring that into the discussion like as if it would seude the conversation at all.
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Not that you asked, but the one I'm most bummed about are the breakable walls and I hope they don't keep adding them into the map updates, but I know they will.
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Ranks do matter for matchmaking reasons right now, MMR is offline so they are using ranks to pair you with and against the other players, like it was before.
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Survivor playtime starts at like 2,600 hours all the way up to 6,500 hours. This is most lobbys.
When you watch a streamer in the U.S you see there is a much larger and more casual playerbase there.
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I think if done well breakable walls could be a neat addition to almost any map. Emphasis on "if". Hopefully they revisit the feedback regarding their implementation regularly to see if anything needs to be adjusted.
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As of the last stats drop, kill rates were higher at red rank than at all ranks (link). If 4-man god SWFs were both common and OP you would expect kill rates to drop at red ranks, not rise.
I agree that the ceiling for SWF is extremely high, but in reality these god squads are rare.
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Is there really anything you can do about a SWF god squad? Nerfing SWF would mean tryhards would stream snipe their friends and casuals would stop playing because they can't play with friends. The only acceptable nerf would just be changing their matchmaking. With MMR it seems that matchmaking was averaged, so me (a rank 3 survivor) was having fun with some friends (One of which was rank 4, and the others were ranks 12 and 16, so you can guess that their MMR rating wasnt that high). We kept getting poor Trappers who were on their first match and it felt awful knowing that me and the Rank 4 friend were probably going to be the reason why they never play the game again, so I faked being garbage and they killed me so they had some motivation to keep trying to play.
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I should probably mention that "on their first match" was only literal for one of them, but the others were all relatively new, with the highest rank being rank 8, and since we died to them, our ratings went down, which led to more new killers. The game was boring until they disabled MMR again, I'd rather face stupidly high ranked killers as opposed to new players who don't know how to lunge.
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First and foremost, I do believe the game at highest skill is Survivor sided if Survivors are using coms, at normal play, what we average players play I do believe the game is not heavily unbalanced if you are not abusing lame stuff like Moris/Certain pink addons or DS+UB+Key+coms.
That being said, asking if "there is something to do against god SWF squads?" is like asking if you can beat Cristiano Ronaldo at football, it depends, are you as good as Cristiano Ronaldo at football?.
I mean no offense but god Survivors shouldnt be beaten by average rank1 Killers, at least not on a regular basis. This applies for Killers too, should a ragtag assemble of average rank1 Solos beat Ortzdaba or Zubat? not on a regular basis either.
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