If we're nerfing PGTW...
Then we should be nerfing OoO, too.
As long as SWF groups are able to communicate with one another and share information, OoO should not exist as it currently does. I was just hit with a 4-stack OoO group, and I've never felt more cheated by any game in my life. Did I get hooks? Yes. But the coordination was too much to deal with. No wasted time, no wasted pallets, no running into dead zones.
There was nothing to be done, and I cannot stress how angry I am that the devs would focus on perks that don't break the balance of the game in favor of perks that can be so abused.
Comments
-
More people need to understand that last sentence. We aint complaining because pop is now a bad perk (which it isn't, it's still pretty good), we complain because they focused on a perk that isn't an issue instead of perks that are an issue like DS and OoO.
Good for bringing up OoO, I completely forgot that perk existed.
39 -
The Pop nerf is mostly a "shuddup whining survivors" nerf. 45 seconds is still plenty of time, although it is going to hit non-mobility killers that actually need the perk far more than the killers that make it so complained about. OoO, however, requires a ground-up rework in order to prevent SWF's from basically cheating.
3 -
Okay, so, I clicked in preparing to be like "another thread really" but then I saw OoO and not DS and yes. I agree. OoO needs a ground-up rework; it's such a badly designed perk.
3 -
How about stopping this whataboutism nonsense?
9 -
How is DS an issue? Stop. Tunneling. Wow you completely countered the perk by simply chasing someone else. So hard.
6 -
Couple problems....:
1) The person with DS can body block. Or do gens, and there is nothing a killer can do about it.
2) There is no timer or clock to tell if DS is still up. Cannot tell you how many times I thought I was safe or watched someone who thought the same and sure enough it is still up. 60 seconds is way too long. In one game I was sure I was winning I had three people hooked at once. I had to eat three DS back to back to back because I couldn't remember which one did not have it. It hurts killers who are just really good.
3) If there are multiple costumes it is very difficult to tell who may or may not have it.
DS from one person is not that big of an issue. Two or more rapidly becomes a huge deal. There are already half a dozen other anti-tunneling perks that you can use without crutching on DS.
9 -
"stop tuneling" would be a good counter if DS deactivated while doing things you wouldn't if you where chased (healing repairing or going into lockers)
7 -
Its not really whataboutism if people are pointing out that the devs are nerfing perk A for the reason most people want perk B to be nerfed.
People's main complain ultimately boils down to DS lets you do too much while its up with no drawback and guess what was the reason why Pop got nerfed?
There are countless whataboutisms on this forum but this is one of the rare cases where it does not apply.
12 -
It's called Slugging. Ds doesnt prevent you from hitting then. Slugging also creates pressure. It's not hard my dude. You just play around ds like an other perk.
2 -
Alright, then you should be fine with it deactivating when someone else gets hooked, when a survivor touches a gen, or when the survivor fully healed.
3 -
What are you talking about? Survivors don't get nerfs come on now that would be madness!
4 -
And deactivating during locker entry along with those. Yes, that would about cover it.
1 -
Almo opened the door with his half assed response as to why PoP was nerfed.
13 -
and survivors want totem counters lmao
1 -
No. A perk should not have deactivation conditions no matter how much you don't like it. A survivor can legitimately try to hide in a locker and you want their perk disabled. That's a new level of entitlement and this is why the devs should not listen to biased killer mains.
1 -
I dont use DS so I dont care. I like the deterent to a killer to not tunnel if there is an obsession of course. There isnt any reason to nerf it though. I was waiting for a substantial arguement but you still havent provided anything other than "DS bad, me cant tunnel with DS >:("
0 -
Looks like what I said in my comment went right over your head, woosh!
I'm fine with the ability to stop the killer from tunneling, but if it's an anti-tunnel perk, it shouldn't punish me for not tunneling.
Tell me how this is tunneling.
0 -
Then I guess you shouldnt have a problem with slugging them then.
Woosh.
1 -
Ah yes, slugging when I don't know where everyone else is, that's all a detriment to my gameplay, and slugging is boring for both sides, not to mention, they might have the small pp build of DS and unbreakable.
2 -
So you are arguing Hex perks should be always on, think before you type please.
2 -
What does hex perks have to do with a situational perk on a short timer?
1 -
" A perk should not have deactivation conditions no matter how much you don't like it."
Again think before you type.
5 -
"A survivor can legitimately try to hide in a locker"
This is an excellent point. Locker builds are fun either way.
"That's a new level of entitlement"
I'm not speaking personally. I don't play with a competitive mindset anymore.
0 -
Ok dude we get it you watched that ScottJund video but if your not gonna add anything useful to the discussion don't add anything at all
3 -
Its a survivor perk, in fact its a survivor perk that massively benefits SWF.
That’s the difference why it hasn’t been addressed yet. What dont you killer mains understand about this?
These guys are paying the salaries over at BHVR when they buy their Nea and Claudette cosmetics so of course they deserve premium treatment.
0 -
This is like the new r/woooosh where it becomes popular and people start using it where it doesn't apply.
3 -
Agreed. There is no Generator I can't get to in 45 seconds that I wasn't going to get to in 60 seconds. I don't see any problem with this change.
1 -
The comparison has no logic and its really sad that even players like ScottJund or Otz empower this nonsense by comparing two completely different situations, just because its trendy. That really hurts their reputation. Who cares if some biased people on forums want to nerf another perk, while ignoring all relevant information in regards of the perks usage. And if you want to compare trhem, how about giving pop the DS-Rant-Treatment? Just make pop deactivate after doing any actions besides whats its used for? Thats the logic all of you apply, and its nonsense.
1 -
So what? Whatever anyone of the staff says this forum would gonna misuse the words anyway. Also complaining about a minor change, and nothing more is this, is already questionable enough. Those complaints just show how killer biased this forum is, and how far-off reality you guys are.
2 -
80% of killers user PGTW, 3% of survivors use OoO. Yeah, makes sense to me.
1 -
I dunno... what if they have unbreak with ds? Then what am i suppose to do bout that..?
Yes granted i beat them But BARELY... couldn't even slug from any of this and had to rely on camping...
1 -
If it's turning into an anti-tunnel perk then it shouldn't deactivate because the survivor jumped into a locker. Odds are they jumped in the locker because the killer is tunneling.
0 -
This has nothing to do with whataboutism. It's more like: "We're fine with nerfing pop, but there are a few way more problematic perks that need adjustments for literally YEARS.
3 -
Ok explain to me this though, how did you go from believing the devs are killer sided to the devs are survivor sided? I'm honestly just curious.
And lets be fair, some killer perks are getting nice buffs as well. I'm particularly excited about the Thana buff. I don't think the reason they nerfed Pop but no survivor perks is because the devs are survivor sided.
0 -
Obviously noone is fine and obviously no one has any good reason to butcher DS.
0 -
The devs are killer sided, the upper management just wants the game to make money hence the orders coming down are to please the people buying all the cosmetics.
Thana would be good but I have a feeling it won't last long as long as Legion exists. If the numbers are high there will be more disconnects and hook suicides against a forever legion build than before.
0 -
How do you counter DS+UB?
0 -
These perks have been problematic since their creation with hundreds and even thousands of posts complaining about them.
Pop was rarely complained about above rank 10 and many think it is fine since the killer works so hard to get it
What perk got nerfed though?
There is no "whataboutism" here. Only some terrible balance decisions that don't make sense.
0 -
DS is hilariously poorly designed too, lmao.
3 -
There are other anti tunneling perks. Besides, if they jump in a locker to fight off a killer they're more likely using head on, which is good enough.
0 -
a) You have DS and get a free escape with a possible x-amount of additional chase
b) You don't have DS but because 43%+ survivor use it, the killer thinks you have it and and won't pick you up
c) You get slugged and you have UB, so a free escape
d) You don't have UB, but the killer let's you alone and someone else picks you up
e) You don't have UB, the killer stays one minute at your side and picks you up. He loses a full minute of precious time.
A common problem after unhooking someone is, the unhooker won't run away, rather hides / crouches away. If the killer comes back, he only sees the marks of the unhooked survivor, so why should anyone search for the other guy, when you know where the easier target is? They do not even wait until the TR is gone, they just unhook. The killer does not know where the 2 other survivors are, but he definitly knows where the 2 at the hook are, so it's the smartest decision to just go back there.
Or both run away, but in different directions and you follow the unhooked one by accident.
There are numerous variable things in this game, where killers do not even have the intention to tunnel, but do it anyway by accident.
But i think, Dead Hard is even more a problem than DS. You can use DS once, but DH a unlimited amount of time after a 60s break. Chases can be extented so far and the killers most valuable ressource is time.
0 -
I didn't say it wasn't. Please point me to where I said that, in my comment.
I was agreeing that OoO was a bullshit perk that needs a ground-up rework. I'm sick of the DS threads because there are literally about 6 on the front page right now. You only need one.
0 -
It doesn't make sense because you want everything for yourself. You are fine with just getting Undying with no way for survivors to turn off that aura read.
I complained some about POP BTW. Removing objective progress on a consistent basis is huge. On a killer like Freddy it is ridiculous.
DS is used only once a match if is able to be used at all. POP is guaranteed to be used.
0 -
Nobody is really complaining about the lack of fifteen seconds, though. Hell, nobody was complaining about PGTW in the first place. What is being complained about is the apparent motivation behind why the perk was nerfed, which can be applied elsewhere. There are other perks out there that could have focus placed on, but PGTW was a choice? And for such a lame reason? That's the issue, here.
How that is out of touch in your world view isn't connecting in my head.
2 -
1 -
No harm in clarifying. :)
0 -
I love tunneled because I love piss survivors off and for whining about everything.
0 -
Here's the difference, Pop rewards you for playing well, DS rewards you for playing poorly.
2 -
"Nothing" huh? You can slug.
0 -
Obviously hex perks are different and have special conditions lol. Geez think before you tell others to think smh.
0
