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What are other nerfs survivors need?
Comments
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I can not link you it. Even though I can DS is going to be changed. Look at all the forum posts and youtube videos. If the devs dont say or do anything outrage will happen.
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I never said dev post.
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Shes fine because she takes skill A, and B even the best nurses can be juked.
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Hating DS is fine and all, but no one has offered a reasonable alternative for the purpose DS serves which is to not immediately get rehooked again after your first or second hook. You are extremely vulnerable after a hook state and can lead to instantly being taken out of the game. And without DS it is extremely exploitable.
Also ignored is the massive downside of only having one chance to stun the killer which can be missed and never recharges.
So let's say they fixed the gen issue.....how will they fix the people issue? 3 players is a hell of a lot easier to kill than 4. Camping and tunneling actually IS rewarding when not getting gen rushed.
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I could see the difference between a pro Nurse and a Nurse completely down... but then again, you have to be a pro, and in a game that says it's open to everyone it's a lot of fun!
You all have good speeches, the only thing I remember is that killers against randoms are too strong, and killers against SWF are a doormat ! In this game you need to be a pro in advance or it's over.
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Built in anti tunnel should exist DS sbould have a completely different effect. If the anti momentum is removed then I see no reason for having to pay to not be deleted in two minutes.
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I play nurse, and i do agree she is fine. And i'm a very good nurse as well. Her addons need to be revisited however. But on this one i do agree with @azame. Yeah probably azame thinks nurse is fine cause really good nurses are extremely rare, but one way or another azame is right
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There are lots of posts proposing better ideas to ds, to make it a good anti tunneling perk. Videos as well. I link you one i just saw in a thread here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VT0Ca-nnGo
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Maybe To fix Unbreakable they should have the same conditions as deliverance. A safe unhook at anytime activates it and you can pick yourself up from the dying state. Maybe lower the recovery speed in return
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DS and BT are the only perks that are outright super OP.
Other perks may be a little stronger than they should be, but not nearly to the same extend as those 2, at most some perks become super strong through synergies.
Anyways, a handful of other Survivor perks also need changing for non-balance reasons. In particular OoO immediately comes to mind. The issue isn't so much it's direct power but that the dynamic it enforces is super unfun, especially in a SWF. As such OoO should be sidegraded to fix this issue.
The other Survivor perks are mostly ok. Adrenaline, Sprint Burst, ect I wouldn't want to be directly nerfed, either indirect through exhaustion perks or sidegrade changes.
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Also, not a perk but Keys need to be reworked.
I'd strip the hatch opening component entirely and rework them to be completely focused on the mind channel ability.
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What's wrong with BT? DS and OoO are the only OP survivor perks imo.
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Doom and Gloom bait post survivor addition, i've seen this kind of thread pre-ruin rework but this time the perk in question DS isn't even confirmed to be changed.
Forums never cease to amaze me.
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Ok but games without it are tunnel hell. If it becomes THE anti-tunnel perk, then it becomes mandatory instead of just being meta.
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Borrowed Time deactivates after 10 seconds and is completely defeated by oblivious and undetectable. It has counters.
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I do think it should be a passive thing for survivors. I really hate how devs use perks to patch bad design issues. Same thing with gen related issues. I think ds should be revisited, but made a passive perk for survivors
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Btw by passive i mean a base kit thing. Just like killers special abilities
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More like shes fine because you arent facing experienced nurses every game. If you were you’d be screaming for nerfs.
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Yeah, but how often do you see experienced nurses? This is like saying nerf SWF, because of tournament squads.
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You really do be looking for any and every excuse to prove your point. Clicky you need to calm down bro.
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Thank you that's why with anti momentum it was the excuse for having to buy/use it for anti tunnel even though it should be basekit and not locked behind a pay wall.
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It can't benefit them either. Typically survivors will hop right on a gen after being unhooked. Part of the reason DS is hated. They'll need to innately debuff action speeds to be supplementary to perks like Thanataphobia.
It'd strengthen the healing meta, but healing has always been a time waster.
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Anti momentum perks are not ok, a perk shouldn't just do that, this new DS is 100% anti-tunnel, old DS was anti-momentum.
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According to casual killers that aren't as good as they think they are hmm just about every good survivor perk as well as pallets, flashlights (yes they still complain about flashlights lol), toolboxes need another nerf, healing speeds, keys, maps, sooooo basically anything and everything.
Realistically a nerf to DS unbreakable combo and a nerf to keys would make they game very even and would hopefully stop the whining of all these killers.
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Call it doom and gloom but just stating facts. I can agree with reasonable survivor nerfs. Such as key nerfs, OoO nerfs. However I am not gonna agree with another hear of constant straight nerfs to survivors. I have had people tell me it's not cool for people's favorite killer to be nerfed same with my preferred side.
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That was my point. Hes fine with Nurse but wants other killers nerfed even though Nurse is stronger. Its only because there are barely any nurses left and most people playing her are just doing their daily and arent too experienced with her.
Shes still stronger than spirit and shes leagues above deathslinger and pyramidhead.
Which goes to show people dont want killers nerfed based on their strength, they want killers nerfed so they can win. If you thought a killer needed to be nerfed due to being too strong then Nurse is definitely at the top of the list, but if you want killers nerfed so you can win you focus on 3 high tier killers and dont need to worry about nurse because you’ll barely see any and the ones you do see arent very good. Hard to care about a killer being nerfed when you’re able to tbag them from the exit gates.
Also tourney level survivor teams arent rare at all. There are many swf teams on the eu servers with 3,000-7,000 hours per survivor. This puts them at the same kind of experience as tourney players. Sure they may not have callouts for parts of the map but they can share info and describe areas pretty well. Tourney play is just “rush gens”, not exactly something people with thousands of hours dont understand.
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Neither is having to pay to not be deleted in 2 seconds. The anti momentum justified it as it had a second usage: offensive. If you remove that you might as well make DS basekit and make the new DS something completely different.
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Getting deleted in 2 minutes, is tunneling, and DS is an anti-tunnel perk. Getting deleted in 2 minutes isn't ok, and I'm fine with DS becoming basekit, as long as it's tweaked to buff its anti-tunnel, and nerf its 60 seconds of immortality.
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I really just want them to rework Laurie's perks entirely. DS and OoO are obvious candidates due to how harshly a survivor team can abuse them, plus Sole Survivor is mostly junk. If they want to (carefully) make DS a basekit anti-tunneling mechanic, then sure. They could even remove the once-per-match restriction if they do it well.
I think a minor "toning down" of some of the other insanely popular "meta" perks would be okay (not to pick sides, but we have already been seeing this kind of treatment over the years with several of the killer "meta perks" like Ruin, BBQ, and soon to include Pop). Definitely nothing major though, just stuff like making Unbreakable's recovery boost deactivate after its primary effect is used in a trial (so you'd have it until you self-recovered, but recover at normal speed past that point) or reducing Adrenaline's Sprint duration to 3 seconds (instead of 5). Even then, I'd still say several other meta perks are completely fine and need little to no attention (such as Borrowed Time and most other Exhaustion perks).
Ideally with some of these perk kingpins stepped back a bit, they could see about buffing some similar perks to create a better array of options. We obviously have nothing comparable to DS right now, and Unbreakable makes all other slug-related perks look pathetic. I'd prefer them to make it be more of a choice between similar-but-different perks, such as the Bond-Empathy-Aftercare relationship or the Self Care-Inner Strength (plus Solidarity and Second Wind if they ever get buffed) relationship.
They could even consider trying to tweak some of them into a "one for all" style of functionality, where one player using the perk gives its benefits to their entire team. This already happens with Open Handed and to a lesser extent with Kindred and Aftercare, but what if perks like Buckle Up or Wake Up! did something similar?
It's important that the focus be on fun. But it would be nice if there was a better perk variety on BOTH sides than there currently is.
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TBH idk why the devs haven't made BT and DS base will lesser timers and the perks would just buff the timers.
DS shouldn't be anti-momentum, no perk should and saying because you have to pay for it justifies that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard, by that logic they should have left play with your food alone and let huntress run around at 125% speed chucking hatchets with full stacks or any of the other busted perks they released that people had to pay for.
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Basically it's an instant heal that works with every single hook and bypasses 1shot downs, and has excellent timing and can be used a LOT in every match.
Consider how many times BT triggers in a match, or alternatively how often a Killer will deliberately not hit a Survivor for fear of BT.
Sure it's not as bad as DS, but that's not saying much. The quantity of procs easily makes up for the relative power of a single DS proc. A single Survivor with the perk can get up to 6 procs afterall.
By comparison OoO's problems are non-balance, since the informational advantage is significantly counterbalanced by it's downside, making it more of a playstyle change than an advantage, an extremely unhealthy playstyle change but still. Not that it's weak, don't missunderstand, it's just that DS and BT have power to a crazy degree. There is a reason everyone runs those 2 perks and not OoO.
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You run OoO in a swf, click your flashlight at the killer and think DS should be anti-momentum. This is exactly what all the killer mains think of here when they see people asking for killer nerfs but in your case that's actually how you play lol.
Do you actually play killer a lot? I'm curious. If so which ones do you play?
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Pretty sure azame is a rank 4 oni main.
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A reminder that unless the Survivors are constantly hookbombing (which, even that has counterplay...), BT has counters. It's directly tied to your terror radius. It's completely countered by most stealth killers, along with just... not being around hook. Most killers can get 32 meters away from an unhook before it happens, and still pressure the hook afterwards. Billy and Blight have their mobility. Hag just has to wait for a trap to go off. Huntress can yeet hatchets from a distance, etc.
Imho BT isn't broken. It's got it's counters, and it has it's drawbacks.
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Honestly I think the easiest way to deal with it in this manner would be to have the DS timer go down at double speed if they're working on the objective, but if they're in chase within the first 10-15 seconds after being unhooked have it slow down until they've dropped chase for 5 seconds or something. Makes it actually anti-tunneling. But a lot of constraints.
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Why? Nurse is literally the only killer that can teleport, and making her 110 and being able to go through walls would be better than the way she is now. Think about it. You hook a survivor, see someone on barbecue and walk straight to them. They literally can't do anything about it, because you go through windows and pallets anyway. You couldn't get stunned, only blinded. The suggestion to nurse you gave was one of the worst that I have ever seen.
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god i hate this "survivor main bad" mindset like at least hear him out, and no demo doesnt need changing, phead will likely recieve some compensation, no one is asking for nurse to be nerfed, deathslinger is going to be changed to tone down his opressiveness with a buff to mobility.
you act like survivors only want easy games and to win all the time when in reality they want to fun games in which they feel that they outplay the killer or the killer outplays them
all your doing by bringing on these comments is just dividing the community because your so arrogant that you dont see the flaws in the killer role and want to win every single game
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Remove all gaps in loop walls so mindgames are possible.
Get rid of the boarded up window and gaps in pailings and windows on the shack so mindgames are possible.
remove the ability to increase fov by playing "stretching resolution" to make mindgames possible and so stealth killers can actually be stealthy.
fix gen speed or change maps to be fair.
Destroy the stale 3 year long survivor perk meta and stop with second chance perks.
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About to? Yeah will see if that actually happens but I doubt it will actually.
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Pot kettle black. The whole idea of this thread is moaning that DS may get nerfed because it's being abused pretty hard right now. Yes killers should be fun for both sides but all you hear is nerf spirit/pyramid/deathslinger, and very few calls for work to be done to make other killers more fun. Some maps are still pretty bad and with exhaustion perks thrown in chases can become very benny hill like, thats the point really when a killer comes along who has equal power or control in chase they need to be nerfed into the ground because people can't accept a new direction for the game and want it the same as the old days where it's the 4 and not the 1 that have the control in chases. These killers aren't very fun to play hence the meta we see today.
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Wow my huge comment got deleted T.T while posting.
To "fix" Ds we couild make th obsession mechanic an actual threat or detrimental status for survivors, like how it is in Ds description, but is not in pracrical use. "Wow i have spider legs around my name now, neat"
- Being the obsession by default should negatively affect a survivor, but not by catastrophal levels. Im not talking about huge stuff like repair or movement speed penalties, but smaller stuff like harder skillchecks, nastier crows or quicker accumulation of bloodlust ( not faster bloodlust). Of course i dont really have an idea for acceptable negative effects.
- This obsession penalty should be a thing ESPECIALLY if we ever have a obligatory obsession per trial.
- Killer obsession perks shouldnt be buffing the obsession.
- Survivors shouldnt want to be the obsession unless using certain obsession perks. I dont see DS being a perk that rewards you for being the obsession, but punishes you for using it by becoming the obsession. (Obvviously DS can be used to force the obsession on yourself, but that isnt it's primary use)
We could also just nerf survivors in other things, just because we can. I generally have those ideas for some parts of the mystical killer compensation for the solo-cwf gap closing. I think survivors could be punished a bit for messing up or doing stuff in the killers face. Identity V for example lets killers deal double damage when interrupting survivor heal, repairs or vaulting. Obviously, exposing survivors when doing stuff would cause riots here in Dbd.
- When a killer hits a survivor while performing a continous action (repair, heal, etc), said survivor will now flinch in place before being able to sprint away, this technically reduces their hit sprint.
- When a survivor is hit during a vault, said survivor will briefly tumble down but get up again before being able to sprint away. This has the same effect of reducing their hit sprint as above.
- Healthy vaulting survivors can now be grabbed, but struggle free again, this also costs them some hit sprint. Or just fix grabbing in general or increase the timeframe for when survivors let go of an object.
- As we are in the wake of a graphical update, the two first points above can have some fancy new animations, and in the case of the vault, even different kinds depending on type (window/pallet) or timing of the hit ( before/after crossing the window).
- When missing a skillcheck, you can no longer cancel the flinch animation by running away.
- Exit gate switches now only progress when the lever is definitely in the lower position.
- Regression now needs to be repaired for a certain duration before it stops. That duration is depending on a charge based buffer which is determined by the duration of the regression. The buffer starts at 1 charge and grows at the same rate as the generator regresses, up to 5 charges, but not when the generator is being repaired. As regression is only stopped once the buffer is depleted, you repair at 75% speed until the buffer is gone.
While those changes barely compensate for a message system or ingame voicechat, these changes wouldnt even affect survivors not doing risky stuff at all. For weakening survivors or buffing killers in the general balance, I'd rather not include change to killer abilitties but only changes to the basic killer.
Another thing that could be seen as survivor nerf would be to closing of the killer tier gaps. In my opinion we can buff weaker killer abilities without changing the survivor-killer-balance (much) as long they dont become the new strongest killers. While there are some unreasonable possible changes, I doubt improving pig's crouching or eye level would ever make her as opressive as spirit, right?
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OoO needs a change. Me personally I'd have it only work every minute for 3/4/5 seconds. Makes the perk useful for solo but pointless in swf.
Keys need changed. Personally think it should only show auras using it's add-ons. Have an add-on that allows you to open the hatch but there's a short interaction and it shows your aura to the killer during this.
Fix sounds.
DS changed slightly. It needs to be a better anti-tunnelling perk.
Change the big maps like Ormond, Disturbed Ward, Haddonfield and Midwitch. Would love Shelter Woods to be buffed for survivors.
Better early game slowdown/information for the killer.
No swf nerfs. No separating swf and solo players. No perk limit for swf. No telling the killer who's swf or not.
Unless I'm forgetting something these are the only nerfs I'd make to survivor. Right now the game is pretty good except for a few things.
Really hope @azame you do a series on this. A what buff/nerf does killer and survivor need.
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Sure rank 1 in a week xxxd In your dreams maybe.
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I still believe ds and the ds + ub combo are fine.
What I believe should be nerfed is actually UB+SG combo. Man that's so annoying. Talking about anti momentum. Something like SG should guarantee the endurance state only if someone else picks you up, or if there's a hex totem up.
And nerf map sizes, ffs how is it that they still didn't address mothers dwelling and other maps
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Sounds like the survivor community is starting to understand what killer went through when the devs reworked ruin.
I think your fears are unwarranted. Even these devs know if they nerf DS people will review bomb the game. They've always leaned towards the majority of their customers. Despite the numerous killer updates over the games creation. They only introduced those to try to keep the killer population from playing something else so the survivors have a match.
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"A dev said it"
Where? Or do you admit you were lying lol
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Most killer players won’t be satisfied until they have total control over other survivors...until survivors are literally made to be helpless Damsels in distress against the killer.
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Funny. Killers say the exact same thing about survivors :P
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I'd nerf spine chill and the sprint perks (SB, lithe, balanced landing, etc...). 3 seconds at 150% speed is WAAAAY too much for the killer to catch up. It should be like 2 seconds at best.
And of course, repairing in front of the killer with DS is bullshit.
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I'm not lying. And even if I was wrong so bbn you think the amount of DS posts is going to go unnoticed, or what about the youtube videos? The devs have to do something about DS.
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