Question for killer mains
What would you want to see being nerfed/reworked in survivor side? And why?
Comments
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I play killer 1/3rd and survivor 2/3rds of my matches so not exactly a killer main but still, here's my list of what I hope will be changed:
1. DS needs deactivation conditions
2. OoO needs to be reworked (or nerfed so that the survivor cannot hide his/her aura from the killer anymore)
3. The problematic maps (Ormond, Haddonfield, Fractured Cowshed, Thompson House and Mothers Dwelling) need to be balanced
4. SWF should have a shared perk pool so that they cannot stack 2nd chance perks anymore
5. The upcoming early game gen slowdown.
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Rather see killer buffs. Reasons are obvious. Nerfs just generate complaints and don't fix many of the other issues in n the game.
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I'm more of a 50 50 player, and the main thing I want changed is less perks that are second chance and more perks that reward you for playing well. This would include slight changes to DS, Unbreakable and the like which reward you for playing negatively.
Keys, along with moris, also need a change, although I'm unsure as to what for keys.
The early game thing that the devs have talked about briefly I'd like to see implemented soon.
Any maps that are more than about 10-15% from the 2k average should be reworked. This includes maps that are beneficial to killers.
Survivors making mistakes should somewhat be more punishing.
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I'm not a main on either side, but here's things I think need nerfed on the survivor side:
Object of Obsession.
Styptics
Brand New Parts
Decisive Strike
Keys
Grass. It's okay not to see scratchmarks as clearly on grass, but it also shouldn't be quite so hard
Corn.
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- DS should deactivate when said survivor rescued someone else / starts working on a gen
- rebalancing of certain maps (Ormond or Haddonfield come to mind immediately)
- Genrush should eigther get punished more or directly get fought with ingame mechanics (e.g. earlygame startup)
- a complete rework for OoO.
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I´m about 75/25 Killer/Survivor currently. My list goes like this:
- Object of Obsession nerfed tremendously to a point where it gets jealous of MoM. It´s the strongest thing in the game if used by SWF
- Slight nerf to SC. Great perk, but the Killers that get hurt by it aren´t exactly great to begin with and are shoehorned into riddiculous amounts of counterplay. It does it´s job a bit too good.
- The so called "small PP build" DS+UB should get adressed in some way as well as the "ultra small pp build" DS+UB+SG
- Balance changes to keys. I´d like to see them being released in tandem with Mori changes as to prevent an unbelievable uproar
- Remove DS locker tech
I can´t think of any others, as the topic of solo vs swf doesn´t seem too fitting here.
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I think the game is ok mostly, just a couple of things
- Object of Obsession is a decent perk solo but a bit broken on comms. I’d like to see it be revamped so it still gives the survivor a strong benefit in exchange for the risk of the killer finding them more easily, just change that benefit from being seeing the killer’s aura to, say, buffing the survivor’s action speeds across the board by some amount. I’m not sure what the best number is, but give them +X% action speed boost on gens, healing, rescues and vaults in exchange for the killer being able to see their aura if they are looking in the killer’s direction. Just make X high enough that it is worth taking that extra risk but not so high that it is overpowered. This would keep the perk useful for solo survivors but not be much different for swfs than the solo experience.
- Decisive Strike is generally ok but should probably end immediately if the survivor does any skill checks on gen repair or healing. After all, if they feel safe enough to start doing those things then DS has already done its job. The current version though is just a Get Out Of Jail Free card where the survivor can simply brazenly sit on a gen in the killers face and know they can get away if grabbed.
- Keys are basically ok except I think it’s a little much that a single key can allow multiple survivors to escape. Make it so a key user escapes and then the hatch automatically closes behind them. (I also would tweak the moris a bit but this thread is about survivors so I’ll skip that.)
- Sort of related to both sides, I think the game should have a timer of, say, four minutes where, if no points are scored in that time, then the endgame collapse automatically starts. Every now and then you can get into an annoying stalemate where two survivors are both intentionally hiding and not doing anything to score points but are just stalling, waiting for the other survivor to die so they can try for the hatch. Depending on how good they are at hiding and the killer is at finding them it can make the game overstay its welcome. Four minutes is plenty of time for someone to score points, so if nothing happens in that time then goIng to endgame collapse sudden death seems like a reasonable way to force it to end soon.
- On a broader note, I do kind of wish the devs would commit to an official stance on a way for the game to actually declare “Killer wins” or “Survivors win”. Pips are ok for matchmaking but terrible for declaring a winner (since whether or not you get a pip depends largely on your current rank, meaning two identical matches can have different pip results based on an artificial rating outside the match.) Some combination of kills and bloodpoint scores seems like the best way to go (e.g. 0-1 kill = survivor team win, 3-4 kills = survivor team loss, 2 kills = killer win if killer has the highest score, draw if killer has the second highest score, survivor win if killer is in third or lower place.) But the game should make that declaration. Having this be vague just leads to dumb arguments about who “really” won the match. (And survivors should win or lose as a team, semi-cooperative games just don’t work well in general and most survivors play for a team victory anyway already.)
- Regarding swfs, the issue there is that solo groups get noticeably worse results than groups on comms. The devs could hypothetically mitigate this difference by giving all survivors a Kindred style aura system, so they can coordinate a little more like swfs do, and then slightly slow down gen speeds to compensate so that the overall survivor/killer balance stays about where it is. Also matchmaking should adjust its ratings a bit so that a survivor is rated slightly higher if they’re in a swf than if they are solo (if it’s not doing that already.) The end goal being to make it so matches overall feel a bit more even rather than swinging from somewhat easier killer wins if the group is solo versus significantly harder games if they are on comms.
- Add Survivor emotes. How are secret handshakes and victory dances, etc, not a thing? 🙂
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Everything here except #4 (not to mention it'll never happen as it would discourage SWFs which are substantial potential customers).
Instead of #4 here I would rather see Solo Queue have better communication options whether it be a little icon that indicates what action they are doing on their portrait (Moving somewhere, Crouching, In a Chase, On a Gen, Healing etc), preset text macros that can be hotkeyed or used a chat wheel so Console players can use it as well and prevent toxic chat mid game, or even the impossible of ingame voice chat options.
Immersion seems to fly out the window rather quickly anyway - and leveling the solo queue vs SWF disparity would allow more informed top down balancing decisions to be made while not simply attributing it to "Well you're just going to coordinate better with friends" when solo queue folks are denied any ability to do so outside of miming with crouching, pointing and waving a hand over.
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Reworked? The significant majority of perks, for one. Some are clearly overpowered (maybe like 2-3) and others are just super underpowered or have bugs (all of the rest except maybe 5). I just want some variety, you know? Although I'm not a main, so I guess I'm not exactly your target.
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Keys
Decisive Strike actually being anti-tunnel and not "stop playing so well"
Object of Obsession being deleted from existence that perk is absurd in SWF
Quentin face rework, I kill him out of a sense of honor because goddamn that face
A BP reward for killer that scales with how many SWF players were in the match, announced and rewarded AFTER the game to avoid dodges.
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- Dead Hard, at least the distance. Imagine this you're chasing them as a standard M1 killer, you can tell by the distance they're going to get hit as they vault, they tap e for that extra distance and now they make an extremely strong window where you have no choice but to either break chase or follow them around 3 times until the entity blocks it. An example being mothers dwelling bottom floor or crotus penn asylum. It's overpowered against the weaker killers, one tap of the E button and you either just lost the chase or have to waste a full minute trying to catch them in the strongest areas.
- Object of obsession (we all know why)
- Rework some maps. Very strong vaults on mothers dwelling, crotus penn, pale rose etc and some maps just have a billion pallets like Ormond, or then you have some maps like meat plant where 4 ultra pallets spawn within range of each other which is strange, and then you get places like Badham where the school wastes so much time just by holding W and god pallets.
- Sprint burst as well. Yeah they have to walk but it's a free escape.
So for me basically its addressing the bad maps and the exhaustion perks that really allow them to make it to the safest areas on these maps. Just things that greatly extend the chase with minimal skill required. It's why I don't like using wraith, pig or leatherface for example and prefer spirit, pyramidhead and clown.
The second chance perks like DS, BT etc don't actually bother me too much. I feel like if chases weren't artificially being extended then there would be less pressure to "play dirty".
My favourite part of the game is the chase which should be evident in the killers I play. So perhaps thats why my focus is on maps and exhaustion perks rather than all the second chance perks.
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I play both sides about equally but I lean towards buffing killer because I feel they are the ones getting shafted the most.
DS needs to be reworked again. 60 is too long and even if the killer doesn't tunnel they can still be punished by it if the survivor decides to go towards the killer. Mixed with unbreakable there are situations where regardless of the choice made by killer, slug or eat the ds, it wastes your time.
PGTW is fine. The 45 secs is still plenty of time. Though I felt it didn't need to be touched but it's not a big deal.
OoO needs to have more downsides. Used by a swf with headsets they pretty much know where the killer is at all times. There's hardly any negative to being the obsession unless the killer is using Rancor.
The early game mechanic the devs are talking about I hope will help a lot of the M1 killers.
Both sides have plenty of "useless perks" that could use a rework.
Majority of killer add ons suck. There are a handful that can be too powerful, like iridescent head, but most add ons don't really do anything.
Maps need to be smaller or redesigned.
Fix the Nurse.
Id appreciate it if BT worked on killer's proximity to the hook instead of TR. Certain killers can bypass this and get an easy rehook. Example, a face camping wraith that cloaks and waits for the rescue.
Solo survivor sucks. I don't know how they could improve that without inadvertently buffing SWF.
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I dont even know what id change anymore. I just wish that I didnt have to play like im in a freaking tournament just to stand a chance ☹️
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GET RID OF UNBREAKABLE, ive lost so many games because of unbreakable
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I enjoy playing Killer more but I play both sides a lot. For me, I just want something to be done about SWF's. Their comms are the issue. In some games I can't tell if the map size is still an issue or if gen speeds are still an issue..nerf SWF's first then we'll talk about it. That's by far the biggest issue in this game, in my opinion. Nothing else can be accurately balanced until the biggest, unbalanced thing in the game is resolved.
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Remove the ds locker tech so there's literally no way to counter a first hook mori from a tunneling killer? Kk
Also imagine complaining about spine chill
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- Deactivation conditions for ds- id like to see ds deactivate if the survivor gets healed or if someone gets hooked (with the same timer.) also, id like the timer to stop when in chase.
- Deactivate unbreakable if DS is active- small pp build is no more
- nerf exhaustion perks to actually revolve around skill, and not just a press of a button to outplay the other side
- map overhauls for Haddonfield, fractured cowshed, and ormond.
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You should not ask Killer Mains what they want to get nerfed. You should know that their wishes are pretty unreasonable just from reading the Forums.
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Yeah man, just ignore them all, they couldn't possibly have ANYTHING that would make sense for the heath of the game.
Just want to 4k every game or whatever that generalizing statment people say about killer mains is.
You are such a bitter person, it's not even funny.
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DS is a win lose situation. Can’t really give a real definite answer for this, but what I can say is I don’t really mind it when it’s used on me. If they can hit that skill check good for them.
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You´re always so quick to make generalisations. I´m not suprised.
If you can´t see how SC forces stupid as ######### counterplay you´re either not exactly an experienced player, in which case I´d like to let this one slide, or you´re just a biased little #########. Which one is it?
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OoO should give permanent 1/2/3% speed boost to survivor who is using it, but his aura always stays visible to killer and vice-versa. This could also encourage survivors to use Sole Survivor(as it never was used much anyway).
Remove dead hard window of invulnerability - it is used mostly as a dash to a pallet or window anyway, and would remove that 1-man cocky hook rescues when killer is near.
Since killer is playing 1vs4 it could have 5 perks.
Longer generator repair. 80s while working alone without perks is a disgracefully low. Everyone who played killer for at least some time knows about "gen rush". But it is not any fancy strategy, it is just a lack of map pressure and survivors working on different gens. Survivors should be punished for working on generators alone, and get more from working together. It could make perks that does not work on SWF because of voice comms more tempting to use (like bond, or better together; even maps with addons would see more play) It also would suit lore, no? #bettertogether
Make very weak version of Ruin a base mechanic. If no survivor is working on a generator, it starts regressing by itself by 10% of base regress speed after 20-30s. Nothing too serious, but when killer is in chase and there is no possibility to kick a generator or it will make him lose other one. Killer should be rewarded for keeping survs off gens, not punished.
Keys could also insta-open chests. There is virtually no use for addonless green key, and you'll get it noticeably often from chests. Make it useful.
Get tapping is a problem - survivors should have the same length of animation when they want to "tap" or start working on generator. Why i must use perks to counter gen tapping, when it is problem of a design.
Every exhaustion perks should have 60s cooldown on tier 3. Both for sake of balance, and use. It is easier to know every perk like that have 60s.
Make small game timer on top of a screen. This would help literally everyone. Killer to counter DS, and survivors to watch for things like "make your choice".
Some perks should work on the whole map, like wake up or empathy.
Distortion should have mechanic for refilling tokens. Like safe unhook, or healing 2-3 states of other survivors. It would go well with base kit of Jeff (talking about Aftercare).
Head On should not be an exhaustion perk, but it would prevent survivor from going into lockers when it is on cooldown.
Base kit of David makes no sense. How are you supposed to "take protection hit" for 'We're gonna live forever' when you have 'no mither' equipped? What, dead hard? I don't think it gives protection score in such circumstances, only distraction (and maybe safe unhook).
Ash perks could get some small buff or rework.
Red Herring should trigger when you are starting working on other generator, not when you go into a locker.
There should be some way for survivor using Autodidact to reliably trigger skill checks. Like "when you start healing other survivor, you will face one skill check immediately. This mechanic has 60s cooldown." It won't apply to normal occurence of skill checks, but would make autodidact more raliable, not RNG dependant (like pig traps).
Pig traps should have 20% of freeing yourself on 1st try. This would increase while you are getting into next jigsaw boxes with 100% chance on last available jigsaw box (to still make it possible to escape with addons that manipulate jigsaw boxes amount).
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Solo survivor turned Killer Main here.
- SWF Indicator during prelobby (SWF offers a lot of advantages for survivor, giving the killer the information who is in a group is fair imo)
- OoO/Ds Rebalance (OoO is broken in SWF, DS rewards failure and turns high risk high rewards into low risk high rewards situations)
- Haddonfield Rework (most unfun map)
But i would like to see more buffs to weak killers and to unused survivor perks to shake up the meta.
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It gets the blendette and the urban evading Meg/Nea away from the gen they're working on as soon as it lights up, effectively slowing down the progress. Any other player will simply be more alert, especially if they don't hear a heartbeat, but that's what happens anyway because never hearing a heartbeat after 20-30 seconds of working on the first gen should already spark some questions.
Spine chill is strong but it doesn't replace the value of other meta perks that have much more preferable effects, which is why it's fine as it is
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Pretty much every perk that exists for survivors. All survivor perks are crutches and second-chance situations. Survivors should just have to work on gens and cleanse totems. Only killers need perks. Even though chases are stacked in a killer's favor, survivors should just never get caught. If a survivor gets hooked, that should be the end of their game, period. /s
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But this seems to be a thread based around generalizing survivor mains. At the end of the day, every single strategy in the game has to have a counter. Tunneling, camping, slugging, etc have counters; Gen-rushing, totem cleansing, healing, unhooking, etc have counters.
Ruin can be broken, NOED can be broken. DS can be outplayed, Unbreakable can be outplayed, Borrowed Time is annoying, but most of the above-mentioned perks are really only annoying in the end game collapse, where Killers were also given a ton of perks to help dominate that end-game. Not to mention, both killers and survivors alike pretty much agree that hook-camping during the EGC is fine, because why would anybody want to let that player make a last-second escape? There are still perks to counter that, and if you can't grab someone mid-save to prevent borrowed time, or hit them before they unhook, and again after to make a trade, that's just a lack of awareness on your end. OoO is literally as much a negative as a benefit. The people calling for nerfs around OoO are basing that around SFW, which absolutely screws solo players, which nobody really seems to care about, unless that solo player is the killer.
There's not a single perk on either side of the aisle that cannot be maneuvered around. The reality is that some of them mesh well together, but that doesn't mean they should be nerfed either. How many times do survivor mains get shut down by killer mains when calling for nerfs to killer perks? And killers just got a brand new set of good ones. Undying/Ruin is literally a meta now. I took the silver-lining there and decided that I'm fine with farming Lightbringer points by cleansing a bunch of hex totems, but otherwise, it's an annoying combo, especially considering it also reveals the auras of anyone who happens to be around a totem, and totems have two modes: Either way out of the way, or right next to the generators survivors must complete to finish the game. Hell, some of the totems spawn where players can't actually get to them to cleanse them.
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OoO is just as much a detriment as a benefit.
Styptics were already nerfed.
Brand New Parts were already nerfed.
Decisive was already re-worked completely, and then re-sold as a pay-to-play perk, because killers didn't like that they couldn't tunnel right off the hook.
Keys are generally useless if survivors play well. If all 4 are up, the hatch only spawns after all the gens are already completed. 3 survivors require all but 1, 2 survivors require 3 to be done, and the hatch auto opens for the last survivor.
Grass is being changed in all the maps because killers complained that survivors could hide in it. Now it's short enough that survivors can't hide, but still tall enough that traps and totems are completely concealed.
Corn is just as much a detriment to survivors as killers.
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Keys need to be balanced tho, but pretty accurate list.
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I want to see the realms be created by the devs not a program
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Keys and thats it
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If other perks have more value I wonder why the majority of Survivors I come across are running it. I´m not against the perk per se but it needs some tuning imo.
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My priotity list would be:
1.) Multi-Man Hatch Escapes before all gens were finished - It's the cheapest move a survivor group can do, imo, equally unfun / unfair as tunnel for mori. I would say it is even unjust, since it can totally rob a well earned victory from the killer with nothing the killer can do about it. My fix for this would be that keys only work during EGC, so the last one could reopen it after the killer closed it, or all four can get the achievment when they just open a gate and then escape through the hatch.
2.) OoO - Even in solo queue it can be so unbelievably annoying, with the killer having no counterplay for it, apart from stealth abilities. And even then, the OoO has a budget spine chill on him. In SWF, maybe with multiple OoO, it's totally busted. My fix for this would be to give the killer some counterplay, the aura is only revealed to each other when BOTH look into the others direction. And / or multiple OoO auras should no longer be possible, only the current obsession gets the aura. The non-obsessions may keep their budget spine chill, but no auras are revealed to either side.
3.) Agressive DS plays - I hate that DS can be played so aggressively and you have no real counterplay to that apart from slugging, which is then countered by UB. No perk should allow a player to play intentionally bad / extreme cocky for a minute just bc there is an active perk helping you out. And again, stacking four of them is nuts, you can actually get ds stunned multiple times in a row, that should not be possible. I wouldn't mind DS being a true anti-tunnel perk, I guess no one would really mind that. My change for this would be: DS deactivates when another player is unhooked. This enforces that only one DS is active at a time. It also deactivates when jumping on a gen, to incentive the player to heal first instead of rushing gens. Maybe it should also be disabled after the gates are powered, so DS is no free escape, but I'm not so sure about this. To compensate for the deactivation conditions, there's no longer a timer, DS stays active as long as none of the mentioned conditions have met. And you may stun after every hook with it, if the killer is so determined to tunnel you. Since you would not need to keep the stun for later, the skill check could just be omitted as well. This changes would make DS a really strong anti-tunnel perk, with an easy counter for the killer: just do not attempt to double hook someone, aka tunneling.
4.) On-the-spot Dead Hard / Dead Hard against a wall - Thats just extremly stupid. Why should I not be able to hit you if you stand perfectly still or are dashing against a wall, that makes no sense. Should just be removed.
5.) Excessive tbagging - Sure thats only a minor issue. But how funny would it be if a survivor would be locked into a butt dance for like 30 seconds if he tbagged too much? So when you run away, you automatically crouch every half second. Or the survivor would get the Hindered and Exhausted by excessive tbagging, because their legs hurt to much after it :P.
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Rather have Killers reworked *Cough cough* WRAITH *Cough cough* although I think that all of Laurie Strode's perks need to be Reworked.
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DS should actually be a anti tunnel perk.
Empathy should only work on other survivors and not self.
keys need to be removed.
moris should only be for final hook for a survivor.
A lot of maps that have loops that look like they were designed by a three year old, that offers little to no mind game for a killer that has no anti looping.
Gen speed is ignorant. 80 seconds for 1 person on gen, 46 for two, 41 for three. There needs to be either a different object thrown in or gen speed needs to be decreased. Have a killer that is terrible at patrolling is just terrible and main reason why ppl pick high mobility killers.
Offerings and addons we don’t use should be able to be turned in, in exchange for small amount of bp based of rarity.
Addons need to be reworked for a lot of killers. Mikes fragment tuft of hair needs a definite nerf. Demo who’s best addons is a yellow and a brown.
and I think that’s it..?
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Claudette.
All of her dark and earth-toned cosmetics should have their colors brightened. It's ridiculous how well she blends into virtually every surface on most of the maps. Combine this with the lower FPS on console and the occasionally-derpy latency and she can also appear to just "warp" off-screen and disappear completely.
Now that map lighting is generally being made much darker across the board, Blendette is gaining even more power. I'm scared to think of what could happen if she's allowed to reach her final form.
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Object reworked I still want it to promote the aggresive playstyle as it does now
DS Make it an actual anti tunnel perk and not a 1 minute shield.
Keys open chests and grants a high rarity item
Gens a little bit closer together, no more gens in any main building
Cornfield fixed
less walls on all indoor maps
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- Spinechill no longer works on Undetectable
- Decisive Strike cannot be used when grabbed from a locker
- Old anti-smurfcomp protections reenabled (SWF groups once again will be matched against killers at least at the rank of the highest ranked survivor in that group, not the lowest)
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I don't like generalizations at all, you are arguing on what you think I think.
I do think some killers and survivors go too far with there whining and are ignorant to some counters but we can't treat everybody like that when they actually have merit in what there saying.
Keys and Moris are not fun to play against or balanced, tunneling and camping without DS or BT is awful, too many safe pallets or giant maps are not fair to alot of killers, current DS needs to change or be base but without the antimomentum imo same for BT which i think should be base so the survivor can play the game. I don't see how some people can disagree with changing things that would make the game more fair or fun for both sides.
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Um.
Wow.
Yeah, this. Saved me a lot of time by basically hitting everything I have an issue with.
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O of O. Nothing else but killer buffs.
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Actually ooo is the best survivor perk. You know when the killer is coming so you get a 32 meter+ head start. If you're good, you won't ever get downed with it.
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Have exhausted status do more than just prevent survivors from using a perk. Heavy breathing, slow down speed when doing interactions like repairing and healing.
Adjust gen speeds to fluctuate around killer speed. Killer with 0 map pressure shouldn't have same gen speed as killer that can get from one side of the map to the other no problem.
Make all keys broken, have add ons be what allows them to open hatch. This will help cut down on odds of finding one in chest (use perk spot to find items with add ons in chest).
Have firecrackers be regular item instead of event. They're more fun and only single use so can't be obnoxiously spammed like flashlights.
If survivors are not doing something like being in a chase, healing, gen repair, cleansing totem, or searching a chest for 5 minutes the killer can start EGC since nothing is being done to progress the match - killer shouldn't have to DC because survivors are hiding waiting for the other to die for hatch.
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Ds deactivates upon full heal, touching a gen, or entering a locker. 30 second timer, but timer doesnt go down in chase. No longer a one time perk.
Dead hard no longer gains distance, killer stunned for 3 seconds on missed attack.
Keys allow one survivor out.
Object of obsession has 40m range.
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id like to see more perks focused around giving survivors unique abilities and actions - similar to any means necessary. Perks of even mechanics like that could really shake up the gameplay loop for survivors as well as provide more opportunities for strategy and builds. Some examples of these perks include any means necessary, diversion, head on and for the people.
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