PGTW vs DS Bias - Discussion.
The DS vs PGTW situation hasn't been around too long, however since the announcement of the mid patch there's been a lot of talk and discussions and I want to summarise my reasons for the clear and blatant bias toward survivors.
- Ds is far more broken and unfair than pop - yet pop receives a nerf and we hear nothing regarding ds - a popular comment from "Almo" recently stating that they nerfed pop due to "having it up too long able to do other things" which is the exact reasoning which can be applied to DS.
- The main issue people have, including me, isn't more that PGTW has been nerfed, it's the reasoning behind it yet not applying it to other things like DS - on top of the fact the devs have said NOTHING about the DS situation and remain silent I find very insulting.
- DS's power compared to PGTW is disgusting - You can on average pull of 5-7 PGTW's before the game is over - let's be honest you're not going to hit 11-12 pops every single game, maybe 1 in a good good few as the game will be over. The timing lost on pop is quite huge to walk over to a gen, kick it etc - even sometimes not getting use out of it. --- The devs seem to forget every survivor in the match can use DS - if a survivor is competent that's 4 MINUTES of immunity - most survivors jump in a locker or work on a gen in front of your face (The argument for take the stun is ridiculous as the time a survivor will gain from a DS is disgusting - 20 seconds distance if the hold W - more if they find a loop)
- Pyramid hid vs DS and unbreakable- The reason behind Pyramid head's changes was because the devs believed that the executioner had to much power in the department of placing his sword down - putting the survivor in a LOSE/LOSE situation and thought this was unfair- yet can't we apply this exact reason to DS/Unbreakable? - if you down the survivor working on a gen right in front of you you either pick him up and get stunned or leave him so he can just get himself back up and work on gens - leaving the killer in a LOSE/LOSE situation - yet the devs remain silent, hmm.
- Survivors complain about Hex Undying/ Ruin - the funny thing is now because survivors have complained about PGTW and obviously the devs listen to that rather than ds/UB they've nerfed the only competition Rui/Undying had - now I can assure you despite the change being small a lot of killers will be using hex rui/undying a lot more due to this change.
At the end of the day the bias - despite me not wanting to say it - is just obviously there, the devs don't hide the bias as seen in the perk changes - the survivor perk changes are a lot better than the killer ones, the only decent change being Trails of Torment, the rest are useless let's be honest it's not game changing/ won't change the meta. The devs cannot make changes to killers and their perks with little reason and little complaints yet when ds has been complained about for years - refuse to change it even when the reasoning for PGTW's change is the EXACT SAME if not more reason to change DS.
Devs - please stop remaining silent regarding this UB/DS combo - it is abused beyond belief- even if you change it so the moment a survivor interacts with a gen/heal/locker etc - so they're not being "tunnelled" it deactivates - the devs have stated on stream before and times in the past it's an anti-tunnelling perk, anti momentum should NOT exist - punishing the killer for doing well is not fair.
The change I have stated would be needed to stop situations where you've chased, downed,hooked someone else - kicked a gen - found a survivor - you down him - pick him up - he still has DS. If he still has DS and the killer is baffled since he hasn't tunnelled etc - it's beyond abused and this one perk is the MOST controversial in DBD without a doubt.
Comments
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This is like the 100th discussion about this, so I won't read it. I'm sorry in advance.
But I get it. I really do. It's unfair that they nerf PGTW and not DS. I think they should at least make the DS time the same as PGTW, but also add a way to preserve the effect, in case of a chase or something like that. And about Unbreakable, UB is fine as it is, in my opinion. It's for the sole purpose to prevent slugging, and combining this with DS can be sucky, but also very situational. As I said before in my own threads (and replies to other threads about the topic) this combo almost never works out for me. But that may just be me, I guess.
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As I repeatedly point out, DS used to be built-in, and only last for 15 seconds after the survivor came off the hook, but killers were unhappy that they couldn't use the "strategy" known as tunneling right off a hook. Maybe you legitimately feel different here, but it seems the real issue is that survivors have a counter to tunneling. Whether it was the original built-in counter, or the current 60-second, single use counter that survivors have managed to make an offensive perk. It doesn't bother me that it upsets killers. The only reason it exists to begin with is because many killers decided that camping/tunneling were reasonable strategies. As such, survivors needed a means to counter those. As many times as killers want to say it, the strategy is not to simply not get caught. As I've mentioned on other threads complaining about this, there is no such thing as not getting caught.
Devs have forced survivors to get up close and personal with killers because of the ranking system. If they don't do that, then they de-rank. If they do, they inevitably wind up in a chase. If they wind up in a chase, the killer has a number of built-in advantages, from ever-increasing speed, to the fact that pallets are limited, to the powers and perks they get to bring in themselves. Take away all the perks and add-ons, and the killers still have the speed-advantage. Unless the survivor can juke the killer, as long as the killer commits, they will absolutely win the chase.
DS and pop cannot be compared, because DS is a single-use perk, and Pop can be used every time someone is hooked. The argument you make seems to stem around each survivor carrying it, but, again, because of the ranking system, each survivor has to protect themselves. I may not bring DS because I think a killer will tunnel or camp me; it may be because I expect a stupid teammate to unhook me right in front of the killer's face, minus borrowed time. If I have to be punished for the mistakes of my teammates, despite the ranking system demanding I worry about number 1 here, then I'm not super concerned if killers feel punished on the off-chance that everyone brings in a DS. Most of the time, I never get to use it anyway, because the killer either slugs me, or I run the killer long enough that they can't down me in time for me to be able to use it. Yes, I will admit that toward the end-game, I try to use it offensively, but more often than not, that doesn't work for me, as it takes longer than 60 seconds to come off a hook, get healed, go try to pull someone off the hook, let them get away as I take the hit, and then get picked up. The ONLY time it's ever really worked in the end-game is if the killer is trying to slug, and I force them to pick me up by crawling toward the exit. That is literally it.
Those plays could be countered by not hooking people two feet from the exit. You want to taunt people by putting them on a hook near the exit gate or the hatch, then that's what happens. My absolute favorite video on Reddit involves a Ghostface hooking a survivor right next to the hatch, and proceeding to bag right in front of him. He 4% and hopped right into the hatch. Absolutely deserved.
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sigh, honestly the forum users here pain me, why has nobody of you seemingly got the slightest clue on how a discussion works and constandly gets stuck in some "us vs them" mindset.
Shall we do an update that survivors can only walk and not use perks anymore and always leave scratchmarks? no ofcourse not, killers would not want that either because 1. they know nobody would play survivor anymore and 2. what would you be even doing as killer? it would be about as exciting as watching paint dry.
Shall we do an update that killers walk at 50% survivor speed and cant lunge anymore and non will have powers? no right? same thing, what survivor would want that, what point would there be in playing.
We play both sides and if you dont you have zero right of speaking.
But apart from all of that, stop constandly bringing up irrelevant "otherside" crap in a discussion about 1 thing.
If we are talking pop, we are talking pop and THAT IS IT damn it.
"lets talk about mori's" "wAit wuT aboUT KeYz"
"ok lets talk keys instead" "wAIt wUt ABout MoRiz"
"sigh lets talk pop" "wait what about DS?"
"lets talk NoeD then" "wait, what about DS"
"fine fine, lets talk DS" "wait what about camping?!?!"
its just completely pathetic.
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DS and Pop literally have nothing to do with each other.
If you want an actual discussion comparing the “timers” that’s fine... but you have to be prepared to also discuss the other parts of each perk because they aren’t at all similar aside from a timer being attached to each other.
Do survivors get DS to activate after every unhook? No.
Is DS guaranteed to proc at least once in a match? No.
This is probably the most ridiculous comparison I have seen in a while.
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as a 50/50 player, I don’t get the whining from both sides ALL the time. Scott June makes a video, and now it’s PGTW vs. DS.
What I’ve gathered from the 0-300 hour killer crowd on these forums is the following:
- delete DS
- delete adrenaline
- delete UB
- delete exhaustion perks
- make gen time longer
- make Gates regress
Those are the predominate threads these days. Here’s the truth, and I mean this in the nicest way possible. Get good. Honestly. The game changes from rank 20-15-12-8-4-1. You have to learn to adapt. If people could 4k vs a SWF with 4 unlimited DS timers, 4 two-state instaheals, more pallets, etc, you can certainly do it now. Survivors get one offensive perk, one, and everyone loses their minds. Maybe the next item in the game should be a pocket knife...
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Ah the typical ‘get good’ play against 4 DS at rank 1 then come back to me.
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This discussion is 100% unneccessary. Who wants to bet with me that they will change DS within the next 3 months? I bet a steamversion of DBD.
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DS is a garbage perk that, when combined with either someone else having BT or UB, encourages someone who was just unhooked to facehug the killer and force a lose/lose - either the killer attacks you and pays for it, or he doesn't and your friend gets away.
Anti-Tunneling perks should not help you if you decide to throw yourself on my knife. That's just bad gameplay.
If they can come up with a solution for DS that makes it a reliable anti-tunneling perk without encouraging you to hump my leg for 20-60 seconds and make an ######### out of yourself while I'm trying to respect DS and its combos, I'd welcome that.
Maybe it's just as simple as while under the effects of BT, you have no hitbox so you can't body block. That's all the "DS nerf" I need. As for DS/UB combo *at least* I get to down you and make you waste some time too.
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It’s been years doubt they’ll do it soon
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You can use PGTW multiple times, while DS can be used only once.
45 seconds is more than enough to kick any gen, so I don't really understand why everyone is losing their minds.
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Just a head up.
DS has went through about 5 changes over the years.
Just because they don't mention something that doesn't mean it isn't being worked on.
They may just not be able to discuss it atm as the change isn't as easy as another one.
There is also the Thana change which no one mentions but the new numbers which we are waiting on may just make the perk worthwhile and more why PGTW is being changed.
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And again we just ignore all relevance regarding DS usage and instead create some fake-facts so the pseudo-discussion can go on. Poor little biased killers.
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I mean it, wanna bet with me?
Devs have a plan and i am confident enough that they see the problem of DS and other perks (on both sides by the way)
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I do actually - I’m curious to see who’s win I just cannot see them changing it
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What do you mean DS used to be 'built-in' and lasted for '15 seconds' after the unhook? It's never been like that.
Are you confusing DS with BT? (Although BT has never been 'built-in' either).
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Why does it need to be a vs. discussion? Discuss them seperately.
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"Ds is far more broken and unfair than pop"
I didn't read any further.
POP: Objective progress removed several times a match with no way to stop it. On a killer like Freddy it is incredible.
DS: Protects survivor from being tunneled and can be used as anti-momentum "if" killer allows. Can only be used 1-time.
I think pop is obviously a lot more unfair. It is still just as strong with a shorter timer. It's not even a nerf.
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"I didn't read any further, there's your issue. I've literally explained this points in the post.
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the issue is not the timer, or how the perk is SUPPOSED to be used. the statement is "We do not want killers to be able to chase a survivor, down them and still have pop available to kick a gen, then pick that downed survivor up to get another stack of pop." well survivors do this "I have DS! I will take the BT HIT and then harrass the killer, then jump on a gen, totem, or in a locker to force the killer to grab or waste time waiting for one minute! same with oh i'm downed but i have DS and unbreakable! so if they pick me up i get to stick it to them, or if they leave me down, I will be able to get myself up and then i can get on a gen and if they grab me again i'll just stick it to them!
so the issue here is that you are saying is not an issue, it is. DS totally punishes killers for survivors playing badly or killers playing very efficiently. example: I'm facing 4 survivors, one person dies on hook, three left and I had survivor A on hook, chasing survivor B and survivor C rescuing survivor A. I hook B, then chase C down after they unhook A, I then hook C shortly after and A jumps intentionally and loudly into a locker. sure I COULD wait, but why am I punished to wait becuase of DS. I grab A out, they DS me and then I have three survivors running around in the time frame it takes me to get recovered and re-oriented to go after someone. how is that fair? it isn't and with the silence on DS people make the assumption that the devs do not care and this update buffs survivors perks and buffs niche perks for killers (rarely played) and nerfs killer's perks and abilities. this presents a survivor sided mentality even if it isn't true and even if the changes are good, but to use the reasoning that you can do more than one thing during the time frame of pop as to why they reduce it, this is something that is able to also be applied to DS.
This is why the community is up in arms about these changes.
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This
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You are actually incorrect in your example with PGTW.
It is completely fine to talk about it in relation to other perks since this nerf is actually happening. That is the difference between "we need to nerf keys, bUt WhAt AbOuT mOrI's?" and "Why isn't DS being nerfed if the reasons for nerfing PGTW apply to it?
It is totally fair for people to want answers as to why it is happening to one but not the other. Is it annoying with how many posts there are? Yeah, but it IS a big issue.
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You definitely have the right of this, the reason it can be compared is the REASON given for the "nerf" if the reason was different the comparison could not be made as it is. when you say that you reduce something because the time frame is too long and allows you to do more than what you expected you can then look at the other that has a timelimit and allows things to be done during it though the reasons for the time limit is different for each, the issue was stated what can be done inbetween start and end.
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the thing is as simple as this, pop is probably the best killer perk in the game at the moment, hey nerfed (ok i guess, i mean is not ok it didnt need a nerf at all but ok i guess) at the same time DS beiing the strongest survivor perk remains untouched thats the problem.
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The only thing that i will take of this is that the creator of the term whataboutism instantly did it themself the second a nerf came that they didn't like.
It was already hard to take that term seriously. Now it lost all meaning to me.
As for the nerf I don't care that much. From my experience it really won't effect it that much.
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Let's be honest 90% of the time DS is used it's when the killer tunnels off hook, while in some situations it's feels cheap, the threat of the perk alone has made solo survivor more playable. The pop nerf wont change a thing, you can kick any gen on the map if needed.
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Everyone is "losing their minds" over Almo's statement regarding the CHANGES TO POP GOES THE WEASEL, and how the statement "The [Player] has too much time to do other things while it's active" applies just as easily to Decisive Strike.
This conversation devolved into us-versus-them like it always does, because this community has repeatedly shown itself to be filled with the most toxic asshats I have ever seen in any community before. Frankly, I'm sorry for the poor developers who have to deal with some of the bullcrap on these forums, and I feel bad for all the baby killers getting their collective skulls smashed in by the obvious power role in the game, despite everything in the lore stating otherwise.
Am I salty that I've been getting creamed by toxic SWF console players all night? Yes.
Is my statement true? Yes.
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It wasn't Scott's video that made it PGTW vs. DS. It was @Almo's answer to why PGTW is getting nerfed, and him alone. Scott's video had very little to do with it.
This was 100% Almo - and he knows he screwed up because he hasn't had jack to say since he made this brilliant blunder.
Statistical data needed - cause 90% of the time when I get hit with DS, it's after I've chased and hooked 1 to 2 other people. Which is the situation I see most on streamers ends as well. Speak for yourself, not for everyone. Provide statistical data or retract.
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The devs sure don't care that much about killers unfortunately and put their heads in the sand about the survivor perks.
They know it is strong but they're not that great at the game.
The made it very very obvious and even didn't bother to hide it when they talked about the doctor changes.
I think spirit was nerfed and they were talking about that on the stream.
At 1 point they literally said "which killer will we change next? What killer do I hate to play against?"
Even though they know there are bigger issues that a killer they hate to go against, they never talked about it.
Imo it is pretty sad to ignore the bigger problems and only focus on the things they just don't like.
Sure it's their game so they can do with it what they like, but doing stuff like that will make people lose their trust and even push people away from them.
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God, if I could post the "Thank you!" GIF from The Office, I would. Well put.
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From not-tunneling killers point of view, DS is used 100% of the time when some shithead protected by it go for unhook or repair gen in front of your face. So it feels cheep in every situation.
Noone asks to remove anti-tunneling feature from DS, just make it non abusable.
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What do you mean by that?
If you are suggesting we look at WHY DS is used so heavily and why it is almost always in a game, I think that'd be great. We just need to apply that to every perk.
However, as we have seen in the past, sometimes changes are made to perks without considering why it was used in the first place.
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That's why you slug, I agree it can be abused but any real suggestion to change it can be abused
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If you only play killer you only have your games to decide. The more I play survivor the more obvious a lot of killers tunnel
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I dont see how it could be abused if DS deactivates when survivor touch a gen/hex totem or unhook someone. Clearly they are not tunneled in that situations and killers cannot force them to do that.
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I've got over 4k hours in DBD. More than half of it survivor. Playing killer doesn't stop me from knowing which way the wind blows. Excellent job making a bold assumption, and falling flat on your face.
Making it so it disables when the survivors touches a gen, gets fully healed, heals someone else, touches a totem, or another survivor is hooked can be abused? How so? This is 90% controlled by the survivor with DS. If any of these things happen, it's literally impossible that they are being tunneled.
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DS is anti-tunneling mechanic that is not fun to use, people only waste perk slot on it to get off hook and play the game a little more. If you think that players must stay on hook all game, you are disgusting.
And PoP- no idea why devs nerfed it. It was ok.
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You could camp as a stealth killer or return to the hook. It's hard to balance around this
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No, DS used to be a perk that people got, but it was complained about, so they reworked it into an actual perk. It may not have been DS at the time, but yes, it used to be that if you were downed immediately off a hook, you could stun the killer. I am not confusing it with BT, as I am very familiar with both perks.
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Yeah, and DS users can jump into a locker. What's your point?
If the killer camped (even a stealth killer), they aren't going to touch a gen, or a totem, or be fully healed; and killers are actively punished point-wise for camping. You are grossly overestimating the amount of people who hard camp.
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So, you're saying that because I decided to tap a gen because I had distance on a killer while mid-chase (tapped it, mind you, not sit and repair it) I should get punished for stopping a gen from regressing? If I'm running a perk such as Secondwind, or I decide to pop an insta-heal during chase in order to preserve myself, I should get punished for getting back a health state? What about For The People on a killer that's proxy camping and doesn't see the now broken Survivor? I know there's another argument against locker plays for DS as well, but what about Head-On/Quick and Quiet locker plays? Should I not be allowed to use my exhaustion perk to attempt to gain distance on the killer, like every other exhaustion perk does? If I Q&Q into a locker because I broke LOS with them, should I get punished for trying to get value out of my exhaustion perk which requires a locker to use?
What if you get hooked next to a Hex totem and it's a Stealth Killer who was proxy camping (Like Wraith)? You wouldn't hear them come back to hook, and you might have been able to get off a We'll Make it Heal or have at least attempted to cleanse the bones- if you're the first hook and didn't realize the killer would tunnel, should you get punished for 'Doing Bones'?
My point is that DS might be used aggressively, but it's a sensitive perk. If you base it off of chase timers, then the perk is useless, because it's too easy to break chase (Old Legion showed that off- and it's honestly kinda funny that this is true considering how many times you can start a chase on a Survivor and you won't even know where they are.) making it too easy for the killer to abuse. Give it a shorter cooldown and you might get punished for being tunneled anyway because you know how to run a loop. Have it based off of some of the things you want, and it can still be too punishing.
DS's problem is that it's too good to stop tunneling when going against a coordinated SWF, which are practically playing a different game then solos or casual SWFs. Nerf the perk too much for SWF level, and you might kill it for the majority of the Survivor base (Solos), and god knows they don't need any nerfs.
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I disagree that you should be punished for healing or locker jumps. But your DS definitely should deactivate when you touch a gen or Hex totem. If you decided to stop regression or break a totem then take the consequences for it. Not a free pass
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Literally all your first points about if I do this with ds should I be punished I say yeah you should, you know ds in this situation wouldn't go well with those builds, or you just make a dumb play which gets you killed, that's like running self care and no mither than complaining with you can't heal. Honestly the timer should be like the deep wound timer, if you are running it stops but when you stop running it goes away in 30 seconds. And no, not just swf abuse ds, I have abused it, I have seen teammates who I don't know abuse it. Hell I even see people I played against abuse it. It's not a matter of who abuses it, it's a matter on why it can be abused and how to fix it.
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My point is you want this survivor perk that the killer can abuse. If you start healing under the hook and the killer comes back, billy blight or nurse for example they can see your DS is deactivated and tunnel you. Tbh if they just made grabs not active it, there would be more counter play. That way lockers won't work and there's a chance you could grap at a window or hook
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Literally DS is there to stop survivors from getting back on the hook in less than 60s.
Is it fair? Yes, considering I’ve seen games where the killer just proxy camps the hook & tunnels the survivor out of the game in less than 60s.
Doing gens in your face? Lunge at them
Unhooking in your face? Again, lunge at them. They might get the save but then they’ll be slugged on the ground, and chances are they haven’t got much time left on their DS.
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I mean, I didn't say break a totem, I said tap a totem... Hell, if anything, just go off of what another poster said in a different thread and just have DS go away after like 3 seconds of doing one of those actions- or even 2 seconds. (Or like ToxicMyers said and just have it work like Deep Wounds.)
DS is kinda great in any build though. If I run Second Wind, I usually do it alone, not with any other healing perk- and while I don't personally use insta-heals, if you can last that long in a chase to get it off then imho you should be able to use it. Same with Head On- it's already not a great exhaustion perk. I'd just hate for it to be made weaker because now you can't use it in even more chases then before.
Honestly I'd be totally okay with DS working like Deep Wounds- Hell, I'd love it. I really don't mind DS not having the invulnerability it does now, I just don't want the perk to be made entirely useless, or to take the utility out of some of the other perks in the roster either- because man, a lot of perks are hard to use effectively or yet value out of already, both for Killer and Survivor.
Maybe it's just me then. I've personally never gone out of my way to abuse DS, and I've not seen people abuse it outside of SWF groups on either side. (Granted, some solo survivors try, but it usually doesn't matter. As I said though, might just be me- I've seen a lot of other, better red rank killers get decimated by DS, but they usually don't play like solos either. Once again though, who knows.)
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Yeah, honestly Survivors shouldn't just be able to barely tap a gen and stop it from regressing- but since that's how it is, I added it in my example since you're not commiting to an action.
I think you misunderstood me on Hex totems and stealth killers though- or totems in general, I should have been more clear. I never stated that you should freely be able to cleanse the bones, Hex or not if you get hooked near them and come off a hook. In my exact words, I said 'attempted to cleanse bones'. Not cleanse them. 'Attempt to cleanse them.' Meaning, if a Survivor taps a bone, then they shouldn't lose their DS. (Unless, once again, it's like ToxicMyer's style of DS, because that sounds dope tbh.) For that specific example, I used a stealth killer since you won't always know they'll tunnel due to their powers and small terror radius- meaning it can be harder to tell that they're coming back to hook if you're solo.
I'd never assume any stealth killer to follow anyone around for 60 seconds in stealth? I'm going to assume this has to do with either my point above, which I hope I better explained, or the break chase part- which you don't need to be a stealth killer to do, and I would expect that if they made DS pause in chase it would have a much shorter timer then it does now. (Like, 10 to 20 seconds kinda short.)
I also agree lockers shouldn't be used for 60 seconds of invulnerability and you shouldn't be punished for grabbing them! I just wanted to mention Head On for that since I think a lot of people forget about it when talking about whether DS should be available if you hop into a locker- and I'd honestly just hate to see Head On get nerfed. The perk is already hard to pull of compared to other exhaustion perks lol.
I also agree with the EGC/Final Gen powered argument. At that point, you really can't do much more then camping or tunneling if you want to secure your kills- and I don't think killers should be punished for that. Especially since, at that point, Survivors should have had plenty of time to at least get a decent amount of BP. Honestly survivors get way too altruistic in the end game- not sure why though. Maybe I'm just too soft because I'll sacrafice myself in end game sometimes to ensure the killer can get a kill confirm if he was really struggling that match, and I've been curbstomped with no kills too many times as Nurse, but that's just me.
And yeah, I agree. DS is currently used way too offensively right now, and it's only counterplay is weak against sweatsquads with UB- since they can then save their UB until they really wanna turn the tides of the game. Honestly I kinda wish SWF would get nerfed a bit- something like the top four or five perks be banned for running more then two per group if you're a full premade, that way it isn't four people with fully decked out builds and comms versus one guy who's just trying to do his dailies on Wraith. (Which, I would hope will get better if they can fix their MMR system.)
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ITS NOT HAPPENING TO OTHERS BECAUSE WE CANT POSSIBLE WITH ANY ACCURACY TEST FOR THAT ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
When X is coming, people ask for Y, when Y is coming they ask for Z, when Z is coming they ask why X was forgotten.
honestly this is just beyond stupid.
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Ds is a strong perk which I estimate 85%-90% of the survivors use it.
The problem is that for the survivor there is 0 downside of the perk.
It was designed as an anti tunnel perk except in most cases (at least mine) is that it is more of an anti momentum perk than an anti tunnel perk.
I had games where survivors just made a mistake to many and when i downed survivor 1 again after downing and hooking 2 others, I got hit by ds.
How is that still a anti tunnel perk than?
Survivors who got unhooked in my face and run to a gen a go repair it.
Cause yeah why not?
They have ds an most of the times are also unhooked with bt.
I agree and also thrown up that idea myself a couple of time, where if you're full health, work on a gen, unhook another survivor, etc, it should deactivate.
Cause if you were being tunnelled you don't have time for it.
Hell I would even care if the timer won't go down when you got off the hook and being in a chase almost instantly.
The problem I find with the devs and a lot of people in the dbd community is that for example when ruin got changed, killers should stop complaining about it, but when killers talk about to change ds, all jell breaks loose.
Why was ruin changed?
Because ALMOST every killer in red ranks was using it.
Instead of looking behind the reason for the excessive use it they just throw it on a bs reason that it is an unfair perk for beginners and the don't really help the veteran players when ruin was still up.
Which btw happens only when you play in swf otherwise you won't get match that easily against a red rank killer.
Now ds is when compared with d ruin also over used and is very op in combination with 1 or more perks.
So why should ds not being reworked then?
Simply because about 80% of the player base plays mostly survivor.
And they don't want to puss of the majority of the player base.
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Like I said - DS is a one time use, PGTW can be used up to 11 times in a match. So it is quite obvious to me - the timer for DS should be longer than PGTW. People who complain are exaggerating.
Besides, you can't really compare these two perks, because they are very different, it's like comparing apples to oranges
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Actually they’re quite similar - DS being the stronger of the two by far the momentum change it can cause and 4 survivors use it -
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