Alright, honest question: Why do you say Huntress is fine (except iri heads) but Deathslinger isn't?
This isn't bait, I'm genuinely curious.
I know the onslaught of reasonings why Deathslinger is no fun to face (to the point of people calling for his removal from the game), and I'm sitting here
'But huntress is WORSE in thise regard'.
Hear me out.
- Yes, Huntress has her humming, but here actual TR is the same as Caleb's, meaning she can benefit from M&A the same and it boils down to survivors looking around. The humming doesn't actually tell you that much about how close she is.
- Yes, Huntress has to charge up her hatches, but in the end it comes down to how good the player can aim. Just like with Deathslinger. She can fake her attacks just the same. Insta-shoots require training, so the 'shoot from the hip' people claim is so common with Deathslinger isn't that common at all (it's likely that a lot of red ranks also play FPS on a regular basis, which, however, will affect their Huntress gameplay as well)
- Iri addons: Deathslinger has to hit within a very narrow margin for the iri coin to allow insta-down, which again comes down to the players abilities, not the design. The iri heads reduce the number of hatchets to 1 (3 with belt) but again, it comes down to the players abilities. you see the head played much more often than the coin. The different hitboxes between the hatchets and the speargun also play into this.
- Huntress has more addons that mess with survivor's healing than Deathslinger, slowing them down quite a bit.
- Huntress' main perks are more powerful than Deathslinger's. Even if just in theory. BoP is great for people good at chases, TI is good when that's your plan, and Lullaby... speaks for itself. DMS only works with the obsession (It wouldn't be broken if it'd work with every survivors) Retri is only worthwhile with another Hex, and Gearhead requires two hits before it progs once before you have to get hits in. Huntress (also due to the lullaby and the hatchet range (though, again, requires an experience player) has more map pressure through lullaby alone, while Caleb has a lot of perks that require him to continuously move around the map without a guaranteed payoff. If we just compare their own perks.
In conclusion:
At bottom line every argument brought up against Deathslinger can be brought up against Huntress too, yet the only beef people seem to have with her is the Iri Head, while Deathslinger can't do anything right.
Why?
Comments
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Deathslinger is fine
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You literally answered your own question in the first sentence of Point 2.
Huntress has to charge up her hatchets. Which introduces interactive counterplay.
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Not more than an average Deathslinger aiming. Again, a good Huntress will hit you just the same as a good Deathslinger, and due to the different hitboxes so will an average huntress compared to an average deathslinger.
The Charge Up is nothing as it all boils down to the players.
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Ok, so give deathslinger a 1.25 second wind up time before he can shoot if you don't see any differences between Deathslinger and Huntress.
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You seem to think that aiming is where Slinger's and Huntress's skill lies. This is definitely not true. While yes, good aim will get you further when it comes to landing crazy shots, the fact of the matter is, neither of them are very mechanically demanding Killers because the mechanical skill curve in this game is pathetically low. I'd say the only abilities that are mechanically hard to aim well are Punishment of the Damned (when you're not abusing zoning) and Lethal Rush+Lethal Rush swings. Realistically, once you have your bead on a target, hitting a hatchet or a spear isn't hard at all.
And that's why the lack of a rev is why Slinger is stupid. It's not hard to aim his rifle. So you have an easy-to-hit, instant cast shot that can be faked easier than my interest in the upcoming Rift. Huntress can't do that. She actually has a rev.
So, yes, it's because of the rev. Aiming doesn't make a difference because aiming isn't hard to do.
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This is usually the time it takes to aim with him due to the small hitbox. Make the hatchet's hitbox the same size as the spear's and we can talk.
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Also, her TR isn't the same as Caleb's. His is 24 meters; hers is 20. Just putting that out there.
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If it takes you anywhere near a full second to aim at someone as Deathslinger, you're a VERY bad Deathslinger. Ideally, you aim before you ever ADS. And just tap M2 -> M1 instantly.
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So she's even worse if played right. Which is what people claim every Deathslinger player does by default 'play right'. which is nonsense.
Could you people at least be honest enough to say it outright that you don't want the character (and people who like him) in the community at all? That'd be nice (some of you do have that decency at least)
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You do realize that the humming, you know, gets louder the closer she is, right?
You could also just, as you said, look around.
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Some people apparently CAN look around for Huntress, but utterly lose that ability for Deathslinger.
And given Deathslinger has a very distinct chase music that argument falls flat.
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His music is distinct... ly quiet. He also doesn't have a 45-meter Terror Radius.
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You're right, though. I don't want him in the game. I wish he were never added. I wish that entire patch just never hit the live servers.
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Huntress is better than Death Slinger, but Death Slinger is less fun to fight; that’s why people ######### about him more. I’ll take this by step.
- Her humming is still enough to alert survivors. You hear that lullaby you at least have an idea of her whereabouts. This doesn’t happen with DS.
- Death Slingers ADS is wayyyyy faster than huntresses, meaning his zoning and fakes are far more effective regardless of whether huntress can do it.
- Does anyone actually complain about Iri coin being too strong? I see tons of complaining about Iri head being too strong, its what a lot of people don’t like about her.
- Yeah Huntresses addons are better theres nothing to dissect here.
- I’m unsure as to what your point is here. I don’t see anyone get mad about Deathslingers perks aside from them sucking.
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So basically, this isn't supposed to be a bait thread, but if someone disagrees with you, it's not that they have valid reasons as to why they disagree. They just don't like you and your character?
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Huntress has a wind up and her hatchets do immediate damage.
Deathslinger has no wind up, but he has to reel in survivors and survivors are given the opportunity to try to break the chain during the reel.
Their range attacks simply have different ways to counter it. Complaining that Deathslinger has no wind up is missing the actual counterplay his gun is meant to have.
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Wow, I've yet to see a "just break the chain 4head" argument in defense of Slinger.
Probably because the chain only has a chance of being broken if the Deathslinger positioned himself poorly or has bad timing, i.e. doesn't really matter what the Survivor does.
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As a survivor facing Deathslinger you should be making sure you are running around areas that make it harder for the Deathslinger to get good shots.
The goal as a survivor is to prevent Deathslinger from reeling you in with his gun and to force him to have to walk up to you for the hit.
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thank you.
That is another factor things boil down to, it would seem: People's unwillingness to adjust their playstyle to what killer they are facing. If you try to go against Deathslinger like you'd go up against Trapper, you're screwed.
I don't mind people disagreeing, but I do mind when people tell me I am wrong by default, which everyone on this forum gets told when they say Deathslinger has counterplay and makes for fun matches for both sides if played well (well in the sense of non-toxic, something that applies to all killers)
Look around. Whenever someone says they like him, where to play or even just the design and lore, you'll get dozens of people saying that's wrong, he's op, has no counterplay, is ugly etc.
I don't see that with any other player. PH gets his fair share of OP threads, but non of the hate Caleb gets.
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Considering the Deathslinger can literally get a good shot on you as long as he can see you, that's once again more up to the Killer's poor positioning rather than the Survivor's good one.
Not every map is Gideon's.
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The only annoying thing about DS is faking the aim at windows or pallets to get a hit, same move as PH which will be reworked next patch. He does not have any cooldown if he cancels it, other than that he is just fine.
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again, it comes down to the player's experience. The position won't matter.
PH does have a bigger and longer hitbox (there's a euphemism for y'all), and it again comes down to survivors trying to play against Deathslinger (and PH) the same way as against other killers.
(It's the same as survivors waiting on pallets for Deathslinger...)
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And you need very little experience to understand Deathslinger.
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But what about Zarina???//////
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Okay, i have 500 hours into the game, maining him. Would you assume I get 3-4k in every match? Because you are equalling understanding how a killer works with mastering them.
Would you assume I can get 3-4k per match? By your own logic?
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I don’t think anyone complains about slinger outside of the lack of counter play against quick shots, which huntress cannot do, and the boring strat of faking out an aim to get an M1. I don’t have any issues with him personally though. That’s just the two I see often.
Post edited by Kolonite on5 -
So, you are saying everyone who does like him for whatever reason shouldn't be part of the community? that does that like him are wrong, and that all they've done and all friends they found due to him are a bad thing?
Because I have heard people say exactly that without any sarcasm.
Is that what you are saying? That people like me are not welcome here?
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The thing that really annoys me about Deathslinger is that many people keep abbreviating him as "DS". Like, Decisive Strike beat him to this punch by about 3 years. If people really need to shorten his name, I'd rather they just call him 'Slinger or "Caleb" instead of re-using one of the most well-established acronyms in the DbD community.
Other than that... he's not perfect as far as fun gameplay goes, but I don't think he deserves nearly as much contempt as he gets.
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That doesn't add up: your camera doesn't change position when you press the scope button; all you have to do is have a survivor in the middle of your screen and quickscope.
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It's not.
The usual time it takes for a Deathslinger to go into aim is like 0.1 seconds. The time for him to shoot is also 0.1 seconds. That means he can hit you in 0.2 seconds. Good luck reacting to that. Or should I say "guessing"? It's a guess when he's going to shoot. No skill for the survivor = unfun.
Meanwhile a huntress has to wind up her hatchets and aims while doing it (if you're good). It takes a while, so the survivor has a lot of time to react to her pull up.
In conclusion: Huntess takes more skill to play AS and AGAINST, because it takes skill for the killer (considering hitboxes are working) and it has counterplay for survivors.
Deathslinger is UNFUN. Thanks.
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No, no not really.
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Yes, yes really. I've played him enough to know this.
And what an incredibly unhealthy killer he is for this game; I see why they were scared for another ranged killer and I wish they just stuck to Huntress.
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In my opinion, deathslinger is fine, same as huntress.
The only thing that I dislike about deathslinger is the start of the chase, most slingers will have M&A, which makes your TR 16m, but the song starts when he is like 12m, giving you no reaction at all.
Huntress is next to old Billy in terms of balance imo, without insta saws of course.
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Zarrina is bad and her Perks are bad.
Thing is, Slinger isn't a good Killer. But that's because he's 110 with no mobility.
Easy Killer =/= good Killer. Just take a look at Legion or Wraith. As far as landing shots and hitting speared Survivors go, though, yes, 500 hours is more than enough time to get good with this Killer.
No, you're welcome here.
I just think that by defending this Killer you are supporting an extremely unhealthy balance decision and if you were to leave I certainly would not miss you.
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I beg to differ, Zarina is bae.
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So I'm only welcome if I have your opinion and do what you like. Gotcha.
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It does start a bit earlier, we tested. If you run Spine Chill it starts shortly before SC rank 3 comes on. (at least going by the tests)
You said that when I defend the design of a killer and his sheer existence I'm not welcome. Which very much equals that I must share your hate for deathslinger, as that seems to be the option you do approve of.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
because slinger can ads in less than 0.13s which is not humanly possible to react to, where as huntress has a 1s windup included with an audio clue which opens opportunities for counterplay and allows the better player to prevail, you answered your own question
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huntress has a 1s windup and an audio queue to tell you when shes readying a hatchet when slinger can ads in 0.13s and shoot a projectile 12m in the space of 0.1s, just a reminder that the world record reaction time is 0.15s
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Also, if you think Slinger is fine, I would wager that you're the one who needs to "learn how to play".
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Huntress is just more fun to play against. She has more counterplay, her chases are more dynamic, and it is possible, though extremely unlikely, that a really, REALLY good survivor might be able to overcome her.
Huntress is a killer that forces survivors to be better than her to escape. Deathslinger is a killer that forces survivors to slam gens like crazy because you WONT escape his chase.
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They don't actually have any solid arguments. I mean, look at them claiming Deathslinger has no counterplay and that you'd win with him regardless of whatever. Which objectively isn't true. It's always survivors refusing to adjust their gameplay (the same kind that complains about ruin/devour but won't bring Small Game or such and cleans totems).
Zarina is fine, that person is just grasping for straws cause they probably fall for Red Herring or Off The Record on a regular basis.
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
Right on, fella.
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I'm not going to read every comment, but essentially it's because huntresses have to commit to a charge up time.
You hear the audio cue and have time to react to her animation. With deathslinger you don't if he shoots instantly. When I say she has to 'commit', I mean she can't just fake a shot without a survivor getting another loop. Whereas a deathslinger can because he can aim his gun pretty much instantly and puts away his gun instantly too. A huntress is slowed down when putting away her hatchet.
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I openly admitted that Slinger was bad because of his awful mobility. You can beat him just fine by slamming gens, but when you're in a chase, no, there is nothing you can do against a Slinger who knows how to shoot his gun.
Twisting my words, bringing in an irrelevant conversation (which also hints that you don't read these posts all the way through since if you did you'd know that me thinking Zarina is ugly has nothing to do with me thinking Slinger is unbalanced), and not actually coming up with any arguments yourself.
You need to git gud at spearing Survivors and git gud at arguing online.
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But you know somewhat when she is going to shoot and you didn't bring up the main annoyance is that he can fake his power with no punishment whereas huntress has a long cool down after she puts away a hatchet.
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This is fair. Once you get good at quickscoping on Deathslinger, it's pretty hard to dodge him. You basically have to be constantly wiggling during chase, which just means he catches up to you.
Of course, Huntress also gets a hit box the size of half the screen... whereas you actually have to have good aim on Ole Limpy to use his power well.
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- Deathslinger is sneaky as hell, Huntress can be heard a mile away no matter what she runs.
- Huntress has a lengthy/noisy animation that telegraphs her throws, where Deathslinger can quickscope faster than any person could possibly react.
Both are fine, but Deathslinger is clearly more annoying.
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New killer = new gamplay =
Adapt ?= let's complain.Simply.
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Some of the points were already mentioned, I'll just summarize then just to make sure I don't miss anything. First off: You mentioned you dislike people telling you you 're wrong by default. Well, some points you ARE wrong, that is not default. And when they give a good reason why your explanations are wrong, you might at least start to argue about it.
- Huntress Humming is at least a warning, which is a lot more than DS has. And it DOES tell you the distance as it gets louder when she approaches. And the main point of complaints about DS terror radius is, that it is way too silent, feeling more like a 16m TR rather than 24m. If he had an actually well working TR, there would be way less complaints. I have seen clips with a Monitor&Abuse slinger where you could not hear his heartbeat while standing in the same jungle gym.
- Both require skill, true, but it does not require skill to make survivors move left-right because they have to expect quick shots, as they have 0 indicator of when the shot is coming, different to Huntress. And by being a hard target, you simply lose a lot of distance. You mentioned 1.25 sec of aiming. I'd rather say 90% of Slinger shots are quick shots. Because as you already said, aiming without crosshair is skill, and without ADS the same skill level as Huntress. Only difference that you hear no sound that ADS started and the time you have if you see the Slinger is simply nothing (0.3 sec, with slightly bad ping it is more likely that the server registers the hit before you see that the killer started aiming). So the complaint here is basically that you have no visible/audible feedback of counterplay. If a killer really needs ADS to land hits and 1s to aim, you HAVE counterplay and is totally not the point that people complain about. It is about the quickshots
- You mentioned "people saying he has no counterplay" and someone else mentioned the "break chains" thing. Well, I would say roughly that 1 of a 100 hits ends with broken chains. That part of the counterplay is like the effectivity of the counterplay against Spirit. A good Spirit simply doesn't care about your counterplay attempts. Agreed, there is an additional step of avoiding the hit, but that step is 1) not relevant if you are uninjured as the killer can just decide to let you break free and get the hit anyway and 2) just pretty rare to happen. In most situations, the killer only has to move backwards while reeling, then you glitch around any obstacles without having a chance to get stuck somewhere. You basically have to be already behind cover when you get hit, or he will get you
- The amount of Iri Coins seen compared to Iri Heads should already tell you that there is pretty much a difference in their strength. The min distance is a big changer. Put a min distance on Iri Heads and it will be fine, as you cannot use it on every goddamn pallet or snowball on every hook they camp. Remove the min distance from Iri Coin and see how people will rant about it. Also about the reduced hatchet count. That is exactly the reason why this addon is solely seen with Infantry belt. I literally NEVER saw ans Iri Heads without Infantry Belts (except a Tofu video to check if this condition would fix the addon). Beause with 1 hatchet only the addon would also be a lot less bad. Dodge one hatchet and the chase is lost, hook exchange needs 2 survivors to make sure it works out. Way less powerful than the current version. But 3 hatchets with insta downs is pretty much the same as running 6 hatchets, except that chases are waaaay shorter and does not allow mistakes.
- The last 2 points are not really what I read repetitively. Heard that once or twice, but this is surely not a big problem of DS.
"...that you'd win with him regardless of whatever"
if anyone says that, it is BS. Every killer needs a bit of skill and game knowledge or gets stomped. Even Spirit. Spirit has great potential to mindgame and bamboozle yourself. The points people complain about with Slinger (at least those that can be taken seriously) are not that he can easily 4k, but that going against them is omega unfun. People complained about old Legion, not because he was super strong, but because you were going down no matter what (I actually disagree with "no counterplay" against old Legion, but that is a different thing). Legion was super weak, because he simply needed like a minute in total to get someone downed with 4 Frenzy hits. Super weak, but annoying to go against. Same with old Freddy, definitely not the strongest killer in the roster, but people were annyoed by him. And same goes for Slinger. He is heavily depending on ending chases quickly, if you can't do it, you get simply no pressure at all. And that means, the chases against him are unfun, because it depends more on killer skill than survivor skill, and if 9 of 10 chases are done within 20 seconds, then you work 3 minutes on gens and get 40 seconds of chase and the game is over. This is simply unfun design at core.
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