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Boil Over would be useful if it inverted Killer WASD or analog stick Controls

Doomsaki
Doomsaki Member Posts: 152
in Feedback and Suggestions

Boil over in its current state is of dubious value, but any solution needs to avoid increasing the amount of unreachable blind spots for hooks.

One semi-reliable method to give boil over value would be to invert the controls of the killer. The way it produces value is:

-To experienced killers, inverted controls will not be a huge detriment
-However, the first time a killer picks someone up with boil over, a few seconds will at least be lost before it is realized that controls are inverted (assuming no indicator icon is shown)
-This increases the chance of being flashlight saved/body blocked in those fleeting moments it takes a killer to realize he/she is inverted.

Example Perk:

  • Your struggling effects on the Killer are increased by 25/50/75 %.
  • You obscure the Killer's ability to see Hook Auras within 10/12/14 metres.
  • If you have already been hooked, killer controls will be inverted when carrying you.

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @fakelove said:
    Should be looked at, i don't see any diference at all, i never escaped with it, not even coming close to and even more, killers don't even stumble like it supposed to be, this perk is a joke

    The perk is not supposed to guarantee a free escape. That's what Decisive Strike is for. Killers do sway more with this perk - I have first hand knowledge of this.

  • Mc_Harty
    Mc_Harty Member Posts: 3,293
    That would be ######### annoying to play against.

    Boil Over does need a buff though. It's worse than No Mither lol.
  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    @Mc_Harty said:
    That would be [BAD WORD] annoying to play against.

    Boil Over does need a buff though. It's worse than No Mither lol.

    Nothing is worse than No Mither.
    Except when I'm playing killer. Then it's an awesome perk, I strongly recommend it.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

    I'm sorry, I can't put it in more simple words.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

    I'm sorry, I can't put it in more simple words.

    You say you think it needs a buff, but not because it doesn't guarantee a free escape. However, all you can say is that you've never escaped with its effects (something it's not supposed to do in the first place). It's not that you can't put it simply, it's that the way you're putting it contradicts what you claim you're not trying to say.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

    I'm sorry, I can't put it in more simple words.

    You say you think it needs a buff, but not because it doesn't guarantee a free escape. However, all you can say is that you've never escaped with its effects (something it's not supposed to do in the first place). It's not that you can't put it simply, it's that the way you're putting it contradicts what you claim you're not trying to say.

    You really cannot see anything between ALWAYS and NEVER? If it helps you escape, say, 20% of the time, then it's worth a perk slot. I keep repeating, I'm not talking about a "free escape", like a DS that can be used infinite times.
    But I can try another approach: how many survivors do you see running it? Maybe 2%? And how many rank 5-1 players? Like, 0,5%?

    It can help you escape 20% of the time, if you use it properly and get lucky. You need to lead the chase to a place you know is far from hooks (either because they were used or otherwise destroyed), and hope you get lucky with how the Killer sways or that your team blocks the Killer for you. It's a situational perk, which is why it's considered bad.
    Most perks that Survivors use (their stale meta, for instance) need to have massive, instantaneous benefits or they're deemed "useless". Boil Over requires preparation, thought, and has a relatively high chance of failure except under ideal circumstances, so it's automatically "trash tier". It doesn't need a buff; Survivors just need to be mindful of how to use it.

    I do see it from time to time, but mind that I'm playing at low rank. I'd guess something like 5%, but then I'm not very good at estimating from memory, so take that with a grain of salt.

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

    I'm sorry, I can't put it in more simple words.

    You say you think it needs a buff, but not because it doesn't guarantee a free escape. However, all you can say is that you've never escaped with its effects (something it's not supposed to do in the first place). It's not that you can't put it simply, it's that the way you're putting it contradicts what you claim you're not trying to say.

    You really cannot see anything between ALWAYS and NEVER? If it helps you escape, say, 20% of the time, then it's worth a perk slot. I keep repeating, I'm not talking about a "free escape", like a DS that can be used infinite times.
    But I can try another approach: how many survivors do you see running it? Maybe 2%? And how many rank 5-1 players? Like, 0,5%?

    It can help you escape 20% of the time, if you use it properly and get lucky. You need to lead the chase to a place you know is far from hooks (either because they were used or otherwise destroyed), and hope you get lucky with how the Killer sways or that your team blocks the Killer for you. It's a situational perk, which is why it's considered bad.
    Most perks that Survivors use (their stale meta, for instance) need to have massive, instantaneous benefits or they're deemed "useless". Boil Over requires preparation, thought, and has a relatively high chance of failure except under ideal circumstances, so it's automatically "trash tier". It doesn't need a buff; Survivors just need to be mindful of how to use it.

    I do see it from time to time, but mind that I'm playing at low rank. I'd guess something like 5%, but then I'm not very good at estimating from memory, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Well ok, I guess I agree with the argument that it's situational. On the rare occasion I run Saboteur I may consider using it. May even be better than one time use perks, DS or Unbreakable. Maybe I'll try it one day.
    Anyhow, I think I get yout point: having a precious handful of all-around perks on both sides which you basically HAVE TO run if you want to play effectively is killing diversity.

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

    I'm sorry, I can't put it in more simple words.

    You say you think it needs a buff, but not because it doesn't guarantee a free escape. However, all you can say is that you've never escaped with its effects (something it's not supposed to do in the first place). It's not that you can't put it simply, it's that the way you're putting it contradicts what you claim you're not trying to say.

    You really cannot see anything between ALWAYS and NEVER? If it helps you escape, say, 20% of the time, then it's worth a perk slot. I keep repeating, I'm not talking about a "free escape", like a DS that can be used infinite times.
    But I can try another approach: how many survivors do you see running it? Maybe 2%? And how many rank 5-1 players? Like, 0,5%?

    It can help you escape 20% of the time, if you use it properly and get lucky. You need to lead the chase to a place you know is far from hooks (either because they were used or otherwise destroyed), and hope you get lucky with how the Killer sways or that your team blocks the Killer for you. It's a situational perk, which is why it's considered bad.
    Most perks that Survivors use (their stale meta, for instance) need to have massive, instantaneous benefits or they're deemed "useless". Boil Over requires preparation, thought, and has a relatively high chance of failure except under ideal circumstances, so it's automatically "trash tier". It doesn't need a buff; Survivors just need to be mindful of how to use it.

    I do see it from time to time, but mind that I'm playing at low rank. I'd guess something like 5%, but then I'm not very good at estimating from memory, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Well ok, I guess I agree with the argument that it's situational. On the rare occasion I run Saboteur I may consider using it. May even be better than one time use perks, DS or Unbreakable. Maybe I'll try it one day.
    Anyhow, I think I get yout point: having a precious handful of all-around perks on both sides which you basically HAVE TO run if you want to play effectively is killing diversity.

    That's why I'm sticking to low ranks as best as I can (no deranking). I can play fun builds instead of having only a handful of perks to choose from.

  • Nero
    Nero Member Posts: 43

    Yes it would be cool

  • Acromio
    Acromio Member Posts: 1,737

    Implementing your idea would mean giving SWF trololololol squadettes yet anothe tool to harass the killer.

  • Doomsaki
    Doomsaki Member Posts: 152

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

    Conditionally inverting killer controls doesn't guarantee a free escape though.

    @Acromio said:
    Implementing your idea would mean giving SWF trololololol squadettes yet anothe tool to harass the killer.

    With only 4 perk slots, at some point with enough tools, people will have to pick and choose their poison. Its always been the same meta perks for so long. Every time I see new perks that are so weak, I always sigh at a wasted opportunity to add variety to the game.

  • SovererignKing
    SovererignKing Member Posts: 1,273
    Doomsaki said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Orion said:

    @George_Soros said:
    I find it rather weak too. I experimented quite a few times with it, and I can't remember a single occasion when the killer did not make it to the hook with me, nor do I remember it ever causing me any problem when carrying a survivor who has it.
    No, I don't mean it should grant a free escape any time, but I'd say a slight buff is in order.

    Why do you think it needs a buff? Mentioning that you've never escaped with it just makes it look like you think it should guarantee an escape.

    No. "Free escape every time", you said, that's a 100%. I wouldn't want that, would be unbalanced obviously. I said I NEVER, not once managed to wiggle out because of Boil Over, not even when killer wasn't running Iron Grasp or Agitation. That's 0%. Maybe others have different opinions, I'm open to that, but from what I've seen, in its current state it's a rather useless perk unfortunately.
    Possibly, for very inexperienced killers, the effect that prevents them from seeing nearby hook auras may be a problem, but I don't think that's a real issue over, say, 10 hours of gameplay.

    I ask you again, why do you think it needs a buff? We already have a "free escape" perk, it's called Decisive Strike. Boil Over can be useful under certain circumstances, but it's not supposed to guarantee a free escape by itself.

    Conditionally inverting killer controls doesn't guarantee a free escape though.

    @Acromio said:
    Implementing your idea would mean giving SWF trololololol squadettes yet anothe tool to harass the killer.

    With only 4 perk slots, at some point with enough tools, people will have to pick and choose their poison. Its always been the same meta perks for so long. Every time I see new perks that are so weak, I always sigh at a wasted opportunity to add variety to the game.

    There’s the real problem. You want to compare every new perk you get to the current meta and if it’s not as reliable and powerful, not worth it. This is why he Survivor “Holy Trinity” hasn’t changed since Halloween chapter except for that small stint when Borrowed Time also protected the hook rusher and was Broken Time. Then Survivors rage when one of the “Holy Trinity” even gets a mention of a nerf. You refuse to accept anything less than DS level of power.
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    Ah, so the same way the Jockey works in Left 4 Dead 2? I think that’s a good idea honestly, but what it really needs to do, is slow the killer’s movement or allow the survivor to drop a pallet even as they are being carried. Perhaps cling onto objects like tree branches to briefly stop the killer while being carried? 
  • Doomsaki
    Doomsaki Member Posts: 152

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    but what it really needs to do, is slow the killer’s movement 

    Boil over is a perk that can easily cause a lot of balance issues. Adding a slow always increases the number of deadzones on the map. An inverted control scheme is a skillcheck on the killer that might cause an initial surprise the first time.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Doomsaki said:
    Boil over in its current state is of dubious value, but any solution needs to avoid increasing the amount of unreachable blind spots for hooks.

    One semi-reliable method to give boil over value would be to invert the controls of the killer. The way it produces value is:

    -To experienced killers, inverted controls will not be a huge detriment
    -However, the first time a killer picks someone up with boil over, a few seconds will at least be lost before it is realized that controls are inverted (assuming no indicator icon is shown)
    -This increases the chance of being flashlight saved/body blocked in those fleeting moments it takes a killer to realize he/she is inverted.

    Example Perk:

    • Your struggling effects on the Killer are increased by 25/50/75 %.
    • You obscure the Killer's ability to see Hook Auras within 10/12/14 metres.
    • If you have already been hooked, killer controls will be inverted when carrying you.

    There was the suggestion to make a clown addon that inverted survivor controls.
    Devs said that they dont wnat this mechanic in the game

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    This isn't a perk to buff lightly. This would become highly abusable and cause a lot of issues.

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669

    @Orion said:
    The perk is fine as it is. It's not meant to give you a free escape every time.

    thank you.

  • MojoTheFabulous
    MojoTheFabulous Member Posts: 2,015

    This wouldn't be very useful as you'd immediately adjust to it.

    I must say i'm confused why you think this would somehow help with Flashlight saves because you'll try to look up but instead look down, which still avoids the blind.

  • DukeJukem
    DukeJukem Member Posts: 114
    edited November 2018

    honestly.....inverting the controls wont do anything.