the mindset of some killers need to change really.
Survivors are not allowed to use DS, unbreakable, OoO etc
but I AM allowed to use insta downs, moris, every single strong perk possible and the reasoning is "im the power role"
so you tell me.. ME who has to deal with
-potatoe teammates
-Dedicated servers, hitboxes, bloodlust
-unsafe pallets in every corner, dead ends
-insta downs, moris, strong killer perks
even tho i need to deal with more things then you can imagine its a ######### move when i bring strong perks?
BUT "survivor playing is so easy LMAO TROLOLOL"
yeah its very easy especially when you get dedi hits in every corner. go play soloQ with potatoes and lets meet again.
you dont want people to complain about your noed and mori then you also shouldnt complain about some solo survivors bring some perks to survive longer because they dont wanna get tunneled at the beginning of the match.
but but... surbibers op. If you don't follow my rules you are wery entitled
The amount of survivors around red rank who do absolutely nothing is absolutely astounding. Like why do i have to do 4 of the 5 gens? Also another thing i got chewed out by a killer last night for escaping with a key after doing 3 out of 5 generators by myself while my team just altruism piled. I also found this key in a chest but i am in the wrong for escaping with it.
That whole “Power Role” mentality sounds like a toxic ego trip. Hope that’s not actually the DBD norm amongst killers.
Honestly I see more survivors dictate how a killer should play, but really, both sides should just relax. I'm happy as a survivor to at least contribute and try to succeed and as a killer, have some fun chases (if players want to rush gens and escape, I don't bother, as i'm not going to stress anymore on it)
but really, just chill out, play the game. We all get perks and abilities, just play and see what happens. You can't stand if the opposite side is using specific abilities? that is a "you" problem and learn to identify that and course correct.
Neither side is easy to play at a high level. Neither side should complain about other players using things that are in the game. If you want to bring an Ormond offering and a key, that's fine, but don't get mad about dying to my pinky finger either.
It´s straight up ignorant to claim this was a one sided problem. Good job contributing to the us vs them while adding nothing meaningful.
You know you're not permanently locked into a single role, right? Most of us killer mains ALSO play survivor. We mostly don't whinge about perks like DS/UB/DH because we often use them ourselves. Our only real complaint about DS is that it lasts too long, and personally I don't actually mind the 60 seconds of invilnerability.
We use powerful perks at high ranks because everyone else is using powerful perks. We're trying to play the game to the highest levels of our skill against similarly skilled opponents.
OoO is a special exception. Along with keys and moris (and maybe NOED) it's a nuclear option that radically alters the way the game is played and saps the fun from matches.
Instead of complaining about killer players you could just try playing killer. See if you feel the same way after you see the game from both perspectives.
Survivors good killers bad. Upvote me
The mindset of the average DBD player needs to changed
You really don't understand what that term even means.
so... Killer mains also play survivor, the majority of the time, but survivor mains don't play killer? Okay
I play ds in every build, and if some days I'm being slugged a lot then I'll throw on unbreakable but I don't normally play that perk. One time I had a Freddy message me saying 'damn bro you playing that small pp build', I don't force these perks in killers faces, I use them when they need to be used.
To be fair... I think I discovered a lot of Mori/camping/tunneling killers are survivors and killer mains doing challenges.
and ive discovered plenty of killers who will sit there and use ######### like OOO/DS/UB/SG or BTL+Streetwise+PT+Commodious Toolbox with 2 charge add-ons. it goes both ways, no matter what you try and compare there will always be hypocrites on both sides (or people who just use strong things, not necessarily hypocrites).
I was agreeing with you?
Being honest OoO is game breaking against trapper/hag/Demo(I have experience with all 3 Vs OoO) who need time to set up their destroyable/disarmable traps/portals.
Trust me if any of those 3 killers complain about OoO its entirely valid as it more or less renders all 3 of them out of either their entire power(Leaving hag as a 110% powerless killer) or most of it(Demo only having shred).
Amen. Most complaints read like poor play.
Brown, maybe high green rank, yes?
sorry, it really didnt seem like it
I wasn’t really even referring to anything regarding the actual term and what it means. Maybe don’t go around telling people what it is they do and don’t understand. Thanks.
For me the whole topic of OoO is a separate issue because I feel that the perk is badly designed for different reasons, so aside from that I do agree with what you are saying.
I say this as someone who plays both sides consistently. I see people bringing strong 'things' against my very average 'things', and then when I bring strong 'things', they don't. It's almost like a gamble, but I agree on the mindset needing to change.
Basically all you need to do understand each side, and that maybe... just mayyyyybe that team you just went up against that you thought was playing 'sweaty' just got slaughtered after bringing simple perks while the killer brought moris for all of them and tunneled them and camped.
Don't get me wrong, some plays are annoying on both sides, and I will from time to time express that annoyance, but I think to sit there and act like your side always plays without strong things is hypocritical.
There's so wack ass opinions out there that a worse killer should win against better survivors because "but me killer" its a pretty crap mentality thats only enforced further by certian content creators and self victimising you see on here and twitter/reddit.
Then your original comment means nothing and adds nothing to the conversation. Should I just randomly go into discussions and talk about what words sound like to me?
Tunneling? Tunneling sounds like someone just digging a hole to traverse the map! What? I'm not referring to what tunneling means at all. I just thought I should mention what I thought tunneling sounds like!
Now there are two ways to address this:
A. Explain how it goes both ways and how your arguement is severley flawed
B.
We're in the forums, so guess which one I pick.
Lets think about this for a second: How do such bad survivors consistently make it to red ranks?
Bad killers.
because ranks do not reset at all like they used to.
funny you say that, because bad killers have a considerably harder time making it to red ranks every month.
Both sides can be like this though. Nothing really new here.
I was with you until OoO. I'd consider that just as fine and fair play as anything else in the game. Much like SWF in general, its ceiling is very high in the right hands. If you have a god looper with excellent game knowledge in a four-man SWF and the killer isn't a stealth killer, sure, they can do some damage. Most of the time, though, they don't check all of those boxes and OoO just ends up getting them killed early. That's probably why the devs have said they don't think it's as broken as some people seem to think.
Dead Hard, Adrenaline, and DS all bother me more as killer than OoO, with the notable exception of when I'm playing as Trapper against a four-man SWF. Still, I wouldn't consider any of them broken. They're all just strong. OoO has a massive downside to go with its massive upside, especially against stealth killers, and it also isn't going to stop a snowball once it gets going in the way that the other perks I mentioned can . Once you have the upper hand in a match, survivors often know exactly where you even without OoO but they will still struggle to break your pressure.
I would disagree for Hag and Demo.
Demo's traps are usually not particularly stealthy, and even if they're well-placed his loud-ass footsteps make it very clear that he's nearby regardless. The main deterrent to clearing out his traps is usually the time it requires, and the fact that he can tell when you're doing it. You already get a global audio cue when he teleports and he's already undetectable when he comes out of a portal, so it's not as if OoO is going to give you quick information about how he's moving around the map either.
As for Hag, I have yet to encounter a team with OoO that is able to destroy my web faster than I can repair it while also not taking free hits and while also doing gens. Like, let's imagine you see the Hag set down a number of traps like 40-70 meters away. Are you really going to be able to call those traps out with enough precision that teammates can find them and safely trigger them from the very edge of their range so they won't risk taking a free hit? I know I couldn't, unless they were right next to a point of interest. For example, I could say "she trapped to the right of the hook" or "she trapped the hill gen". If she was just at ground level, it's very possible she'd be behind multiple walls and you'd have trouble knowing what tile she was even trapping. Even if you just assume you're always looking when she's trapping and you can always call out traps on points of interest, those are already places where people expect traps. If you had even one flashlight you could already check out points of interest for traps when you approach them. If the traps aren't in points of interest, though, good luck calling that out, or disarming those traps yourself without wasting insane amounts of time... like seriously, if you're good enough to be able to actually use OoO well enough to counter a good Hag, props to you lol
100% agreed for Trapper though, he gets destroyed by OoO ;_;
Every time I get a survivor with OoO they feel the need to Tbag me from the opposite side of the map. At this point I feel like bringing it is just an open act of hostility towards the killer or a sign that you're going against a SWF SWAT team that REALLY hates losing. Or both. I wouldn't mind the perk if people used it with its original intent in mind, but it always ends up as a vehicle for BM or unbalanced team tactics.
Survivors hate going against moris and NOED? I get it. It's part of the reason I don't use those things. But killers hate going against Object.
Are these perks locked in-game now for some reason?
They seem to work fine on mine.
And killers aren't allowed to use Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, Hag, Slinger, Pyramid Head, Iri Heads, NOED, Devour Hope, Iri Seal, Black Insence, Pop, Ruin, BBQ... The list goes on.
And yet there's no issue whatsoever with anything survivors can bring.
Maybe it's not a killer thing. Maybe it's a player thing and shouldn't be turned into another Us vs Them argument.
My original comment was a direct response toward OP... not you
At no point was anything I said meant for you.
K, I’m going to go back to enjoying my life now before you rudely impeded on it.
Take care, byee
I don't think they're doing it just to BM you lol, they're probably just trying to bait you into a chase, which is why many people run OoO in the first place. They're confident in their ability to loop and they want to bait you into chasing them so they can make you waste your time. And, if you decide to ignore them, they just get to know where you are. So, for them it's a win win.
I usually just ignore them until I know they're in a weak tile or until they come out to go for a save or something. Then I make sure to chase them, down them, and, if they're actually good, probably proxy camp them. If they're not good I will still preferentially chase them, but I won't bother explicitly trying to remove them from the game.
So, while it's not healthy for the game imo, I also don't think it's that broken in terms of strength. If you want the OoO user out of the game, you can 100% make that happen. And, since they're probably in a SWF, camping is probably honestly going to be effective; they probably won't let that person die on the hook without a fight and will just end up feeding you free pressure.
Ignoring the Object is not a viable option if they´re in a SWF. Given they aren´t potatos and you don´t happen to play Nurse, Spirit or something comparable in power it WILL make you lose the game if you ignore them.
Why? Their team still needs to do generators, so you will still be able to find them by patrolling. Much of the time, and especially during the start of a match, the obsession will not be able to tell how close a killer is to their buddies' generators. Their squad mates also might not know where the obsession is if their position is hard to communicate, so they will sometimes have trouble explaining where they are relative to one another. In cases like that the obsession might be able to say "he's going towards this part of the map", but that's about it. That doesn't apply to all maps, but for many maps that's certainly the case. So, while in theory you could make it so that your squad is basically invisible and the killer is forced to chase you, in practice I have yet to play against a team that has managed to pull that off. I honestly don't find that OoO gives survivors working on gens much more warning than my terror radius already would, and this is even less of a problem when I'm using a mobile killer.
There are some specific situations where the OoO user can be a real pain in the butt, but most of the time it's not a big issue. Even if so, though, you can always just win your 1v1 with the obsession and camp them out of the game.
I typed a rather lengthy summary in feedback and suggestions about just that and honestly I can´t be bothered to repeat that in this thread. Check it out if you like to and give me your criticism, maybe I overlooked something.
Consider yourself lucky to never have faced a good SWF with Object. I envy you.
You may bring any perks you like against me and my piggy we do not discriminate. I will not bring noed or mori with me. This is how i play. ...most survivor perks are predictable they dont really bother me. Sure some instances they get annoying....i think the only survivor perk that pisses me off is sprint burst lol
I certainly have faced good SWFs with Object lol. Object just doesn't interfere much with the normal gameplay loop. Like, ask yourself this: How often does a four-man SWF on comms have no idea where the killer is? Rarely, right, unless they're facing a stealth killer? Even if you're a really good communicator with a lot of game knowledge, then, it's hard to add more information with OoO than you would already get from the four sets of eyes and ears in your squad. And, it comes with the downside of revealing your location to the killer, which is sometimes not a big drawback, especially if you're a strong looper, but which can certainly get you killed, especially late in games when some teammates might be dead and the map is generally less safe. OoO users can easily be put in a position where they're forced to look towards the edge of the map while trying to do their objectives lest they reveal themselves to the killer, which can ironically end up preventing them from figuring out where the killer is when they otherwise would have.
You´re overlooking the fact that the Object can choose whether they want to reveal themselves or not. It´s actually never a downside unless facing a killer that is super mobile and super lethal, Spirit and Nurse come to mind, since the object will always position themselves in the most advantageous location possible.
Your apparent denial of a significant change in gameplay loop tempts me to press x for doubt that you faced good teams using the perk, but to each their own.
Stop making sense. If we do that instead of constantly arguing about which perks are the biggest problems, the devs might have to actually do work.
I mean, I agree but as a more general rule. No matter who does it, that sort of player shaming inspired by grievances with parts of the game is just plain silly.
But that's not a survivor or killer thing. It's a gamer thing, or more specifically a scrub thing. Because that's what it is, when someone can't seperate their dislike of something in the game from the player they're just a whiny scrub.
They can kind of choose whether they want to reveal themselves or not. If they want to spent the entire time they're on gens looking at the outside wall or something, sure, but what, are they going to stare at the outside wall the entire time while they're going for a hook save, traveling between gens, etc.? If they do that they're also depriving themselves of information along the way. You can't scan for pallets and windows in your vicinity. You can't look to see if you can the killer in the distance. You can't easily scan for totems. Realistically OoO users will see the killer a bit more often that the killer sees them, but if the killer is paying attention they'll get similar information out of it. OoO users are seriously handicapping themselves if they refuse to reveal their location to the killer, but that's often the right play for the situation.
At any rate, there are basically three situations for a four-man SWF with OoO:
1) Someone in your squad knows where the killer is, either exactly (e.g. in a chase) or approximately (e.g. TR getting stronger, they beelined towards a specific distant survivor after hooking you). In this case, you are not getting much additional information from OoO. If you look at the killer in this situation, you're basically just giving the killer your location for free. In this situation, overall, OoO is WEAK at best.
2) No one in your squad knows where the killer is. In this case, the killer probably doesn't know where anyone on your squad is either. You would benefit from scanning around to find them in this situation, but in doing so you're likely to also reveal your location. If you're the strongest looper on your team and/or your hook states are in good shape relative to your team's, this could be a really good thing for you. In that case you can either get free information or bait the killer into taking a chase they shouldn't. Still, it's not exactly broken unless the killer is a Trapper. Also, the second the killer generates pressure and the OoO user is forced to come help relieve it, the OoO user is on death hook, the survivors are losing to an anti-looping killer that can afford to take a chase with the OoO user and camp them out of the match, etc., the OoO user is not going to want the killer to see their aura. In this case they're in a lose-lose, because either they show their aura when they shouldn't or they're depriving themselves of lots of information about their surroundings. In this situation, overall, OoO is STRONG, drawbacks notwithstanding.
3) The killer is a stealth killer, or has high mobility with an extremely strong 1v1 (like you mentioned). In this case OoO is just going to get you killed. In this situation, overall, OoO is ACTIVELY DETRIMENTAL.
Stealth Killers are not immune to Object to a degree. Their general position is still revealed by looking at the perk icon. Paired with SC it makes these Killers powerless.
If the Killer is in a chase and sees the Object on a gen across the map, this does not help them at all. It´s meaningless to know where the object is in a situation where you can´t do anything about it. While looking at their surroundings they should be able to make a decision of where to go, since they will always have a massive headstart on the Killer. This is not rocket science. It´s a huge discrepancy in information given since the team can massively benefit from it whereas the Killer gets basically nothing out of it.
They do get tremendously more information compared to not having object, since it removes any guessing from their part. Sure, after someone got hooked they might tell which direction the Killer is going, but seeing every step they take, every trap they place, every pallet they break and even being able to call out things like moonwalking at jungle gyms is insane.
It makes it for all but the select few strongest Killer tremendously more difficult to create pressure in the first place. Every Survivor will have 10-30 seconds heads up before a chase. It makes any move other than holding W and eating every pallet impossible. Maybe my perspective is skewed though since I play neither Nurse nor Spirit.
I think we won´t come to an agreement, my stance is that object has no meaningful downsides whatsoever whilst being the strongest perk in the game (in a SWF) by a mile and I respectfully decline your objections, they don´t convince me. Given of course we´re talking good survivors, potatos will always die from object.
I made an account after lurking for a few months just to let you know you spat that truth to the fullest. I agree with every word you said.
1) They're not immune, but the disadvantage of giving the killer an exact aura reading on you far outweighs knowing when a killer is within 72m within a wide cone of the map. You can basically say "this killer is on this third of the map" in exchange for them knowing your exact location. Not a fair trade.
2) That absolutely does help you as killer. Every piece of information you can get on survivor location is useful. There's a reason why things like Bitter Murmur take up an entire perk slot, despite the short aura reading duration they offer. That might tell you where to go with your next pop, or where to start your next chase. If you're chasing towards the spot where the object was doing an objective, that might even allow you to slug and jump into another chase. Against a SWF that already knows where I am, I am totally fine with one person knowing my exact location in exchange for knowing theirs. Good luck calling out moonwalks and head fakes quickly and accurately enough to make a real difference in chases, even if you're sweating hard enough to have developed concise callouts, which I sincerely doubt teams even do outside of tournaments. I have never played against a SWF with an object that watched me throughout every chase with teammates that never fell for my mindgames. Theoretically it's possible especially in bigger loops where they should have more time to react, but in practice it's not a problem.
3) Against Trapper, yes, it is insane and broken to be able to see where every trap is placed. Against Hag, good luck communicating her traps accurately enough and having a good enough memory that you can break her web faster than she can repair it without taking free hits and without also ignoring gens. She will wreck OoO users and non-OoO users just the same.
4) How do survivors get 10-30 seconds of heads up before any chase? You need to know exactly where your teammates are in addition to exactly where the killer is to even start calling that out. On many maps that is not going to be possible, even with good callouts, especially in the early game where that's most useful. You're only rarely going to get much more information than a normal SWF would already have. Maybe against killers like Deathslinger that are stealthy but not undetectable and that also move slowly, but if it's a Deathslinger there's no reason for him not to just tunnel the ######### of out the object because his 1v1 is ridiculous... I digress
5) If this perk has no downsides while being the strongest perk in the game, why are teams not performing better with OoO? Per the devs they're not. Is it so rarely used well that the solo queue adept Lauries are somehow erasing any positive impact it may have?
6) If this perk is really so OP, what is stopping you from tunneling and camping the object? Most teams will not rush gens as they should and will instead feed you a lot of free pressure, but even if they don't, this will just teach them that this perk results in terrible games, and they will eventually stop running it.
No need to reply if you're done, I just think this is more of a theoretical problem than a real one. Even god SWFs without Object are pretty rare at rank 1. I don't think I have ever played against a four-man SWF that was using it anywhere near to its potential, as in, survivors have never been hard to find and unreasonably god-like in a chase in a match with an object.
While you do bring a valid point. Who thinks to them selvs man I just had a very stressful game and that bubba ingored everyone and face camped me because of a broken key im going to play killer to relax or im ditching my swf to play killer the more stressful role. No one to very few people think that but I bet there have been countless times where someone got mad at a killer game and said im going to play some surivor or play with my friends
this thread is a gold mine, thank you.