Trapper makes no hecking sense and needs a rework
If I had to sum up trapper in one sentence, it would be the following:
"This should not work, it is not working, and now everyone is somehow dead."
Trapper is one of the only killers that can go from "oh no the gens are popping" to "oh no their heads are popping" in less than a second, and it makes him really hard to balance around. I have had games in which it ended in less than three minutes and I have had games in which the survivors kicked my ass for 3/4 of it before three of them are now dead in basement and the last one got hooked before they could escape.
This is caused, in my opinion, by his strength in his addons. His base kit is pretty terrible, but the second you but a bag addon on, especially the purple one, you go from barely being able to keep a building under control to being able to put traps everywhere. Adding on to this, Trapper has four of the strongest addons I have seen the game, those being the bloody coil, the iridescent stone, the honing stone, and the tar bottle. Every single one of these addons makes traps way more dangerous, especially the honing stone which makes it so that even if you are busy with something else, you can still get someone downed from a trap.
This puts trapper in a very weird position, as he is always just four steps away from having everyone downed. At the same time, he is also very bad at holding gens as it is very easy to disable his traps. So how would I try to fix him?
I would nerf the addons like the honing stone and the bloody coil, but give him more trap capacity by default and most importantly, give him a bow. Let me explain. The biggest problem with his kit is that he lacks range and if a survivor does not need to head to an area they know is trapped, they will not. The bow would serves as a way to force survivors to head into trapper areas, maybe inflicting exposed or a deep wound. It would be a trade off, but I think it could help fix how this character goes from worse than clown in one second to hooking everyone the next.
Please, tell me more dumb stories about trapper and also some more ideas for how to rework the OG killer.
Comments
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Your bow idea would likely never fly. Traps are already an instant down if a survivor is tricked into one (and you're close enough to capitalize on it). Adding a *ranged attack*, one of the most powerful abilities a killer could have, would make the trapper way too powerful.
His ultra-rare addons seem fine when you compare the power of them to other ultra-rare addons other kills have.
What trapper truly has a problem with is his consistency.
A trapper that can't even hold two traps feels gimped since you now have to choose between using your trap for trapping a location or holding onto one so you can use it to shut down a loop mid chase. It's always annoying to see a survivor escape on their first attempt releasing themselves from the trap, and I'm sure it's annoying to survivors to fail a dozen attempts to free themselves while the trapper is the entire length of the map away. Default trap locations is also praying to the RNG gods that they give you traps in locations that are convenient to pick up.
I would give the following to trapper to make him more consistent;
- Allow him to carry a max of two traps by default and nerf the respective addons that increase his max traps.
- Change the spawn code of his traps so that they are more towards the center of the map and remove one trap from the max pool available. This way he has more consistent access to traps without being overbearing.
- Freeing yourself from a trap should take a set amount of time (adjust this time accordingly). This will allow the trapper to make a more informed decision of whether or not a survivor is too far away to attempt to capitalize on.
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Thats just how he is designed. He is a massively snowbally killer. The way beartraps are designed forces him to play territorially. You can't place traps near survivors because they'll just disarm them, and you can't leave the area of your traps because if it catches someone and youre not there to down them, its a waste. Those 2 rules basically means the trapper must play in one area of the map
Because of this, you gotta get the survivors to go there. Whats the 2 things that brings survivors to a location. Generators and hooked teammates. Thats why its a snowball. You down and hook a survivor in your nest of traps, and now other survivors have to go into the nest, where you will be. One down means the others are at risk of traps and then its the spiral of downs and snowballing
His main weakness is his complete lack of early game. Addonless you got 1 trap plus 5-7ish more around the map. But to make those traps actually somewhat useful you have to spend alot of time placing them, and lets say you spend 2 minutes setting up your web. In those 2 minutes if you haven't been pressuring survivors they should have done 2-4 gens. So the trapper relies on a bag upgrade to be relevant early on
His other powerful addons then must be prioritised, since you can only bring 1. Tar bottle makes his traps actually somewhat difficult to see outside of grass, but is that worth it compared to traps that are actually useful if you're not next to them etc. (And i disagree with bloody coil, randomly injuring a survivor across the map isn't a particularly useful addon imo)
He doesn't require a rework, he can shut down a loop better than any other killer, even preemptively, but requires a resource to do it, and has difficulty capitalising on chases. Instead he needs just a few tweaks.
Priority 1 though is to keep his power simple. Hes the simplest killer to grasp an understanding of, since everyone can understand at base level what beartraps would do. He might not be the easiest to play, and have a slill ceiling built only for those with giant brains, but his power is elegantly simple
I propose giving him 2 bear traps base, being able to carry 2 traps. Then remove the bag addons. Replace them with addons that spawn additional traps throughout the map instead (brown = 2 more, yellow 3 more etc.). He should still have a higher rarity addon that does allow him to carry (and start with) 3 traps
Next, to make his traps more effective whilst he is not around, make it so if you escape from them, you also have deep wound (you dont get deep wound if you are helped out of a trap). I also suggest instead of making it rng based whether you escape a trap or not, make it simply a set amount of time (which can be made longer with the coil addons) (also helping a survivor out of a trap takes the same amount of time it does currently, to promote teamwork)
Next up, remove the iridescent stone addon, and make the honing stone addon irredescent. The I-Stone is incredibly powerful but not in a fun way, since it essentially permanently stops a loop/location forever. His tar bottle addons are fine imo, as well as the setting speed addons. You can also make a new set of addons that make the traps spawn closer to your starting position, or increase the deep wounds mend time.
Ultimately you can't just slap a new ranged attack on the killer and leave him with traps too. Look at pyramid head, people take so many hits just trying to avoid his torment, imagine if they where trying to avoid a lethal trap as well as dodge ranged attacks.
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One other thing I found out about Trapper recently is that survivors no longer get any kind of invincibility to walk over traps after they get injured. So...yeah basement Trapper is even more fun and interactive now.
Anyway I really don't know how to change trapper and I'm pretty sure the Devs don't have any ideas either so they're hoping people will eventually forget about him like they're hoping with killers like Wraith and Pig.
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Trapper is on the cusp of over powered. One small tweak can really destroy the balance of this game.
I’d prefer they let him simmer exactly like he is.
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Trappers can capitilise insanly well on mistakes so they snowball really hard.
The problem is the snowball mostly relies on the survivor messing up then on the trapper doing well.
Also how would the son of the owner of a mining company learn to use a bow? If they have to make a bow they might as well give it to a new killer.
And lastly and most importantly. This is a christian server. Try to keep the swearing in the tittle to a minimun
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I would also like add to this cause i like your changes: skill check to pop traps
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I just used the bow as a placeholder, but I do think he needs some sort of ability to force survivors to head to trapped areas or maybe an ability to help with setting up in the first place. For the other ideas that Terratoast gave, I think those ideas could also work. Especially the RNG stuff, cause god knows there have been countless matches where a trap will never even be touched because it spawned in a corner of the map or times where someone escapes within seconds or gets stuck there for hours.
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Imagine thinking trapper was OP.
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I play Trapper when I want to have a chill game. He's low-risk, high-reward. If they add two traps to his base, the expectations for his performance will change, and I don't want that.
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What the problem, The trapper traps.
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He really is perfectly balanced- a tweak in either direction would ruin him
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Oh jeez another call for a nerf. Please stop asking for everything to be nerfed.
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I think trapper is just fine the way he is. He’s a great snowball killer once it gets going. I bounce between purple and green in killer rank so yes I’m playing decent survivors.. I don’t wanna see him get reworked and turn into the next doctor. I was a doc main and then the rework came out and I hated it, still do as it just makes him too overpowered when I believe he was just fine where he was. Killers aren’t supposed to be easy so I think having a challenge playing trapper thinking you might lose the game but then it turning around is just fine IMO.
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I play in red ranks, so my experience with trapper is that, as I mentioned before, nothing seems to work and then suddenly half of the survivors are downed. My problem with him is that I feel like you are dependent on survivors making mistakes rather than you making good plays. Don't get me wrong, a good trapper can force survivors to make mistakes and I have done that countless times, but I think they just need to shift the balance of the killer to give survivors a chance to recover if they mess up and also give trapper the tools to make survivors make mistakes more easily. I think that would make playing against and as trapper for interesting and fun, but I admit that there is something fun about ending a game less than a minute in because they survivors forgot that I can trap more than one entrance. I don't think trapper needs to be buffed, as so much he needs to sacrifice some of that snowballing potential in exchange for having the ability to either help set up and maintain traps easier or to have the ability to force survivors into trapped areas.
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Clarifying some things mentioned in this,
The reason I think bloody coil is powerful is that it can turn a trap into a "toll booth" of sorts. You can place a trap right out in the open and no one will close it unless they have too. It is not as good as the other addons, sure, but I tend to use it a lot to great success.
I like the idea of deep wound when escaping the trap, the change to carrying capacity, and changing the honing stone into the I-Sone.
I also should have not used the word "Bow" as what I was really trying to say was that Trapper needs some sort of power with range to help with early game, and my brain supplied the word bow instead of actually describing what I meant. The power could be remote resetting of traps, remote grapping of traps, or an actual bow and arrow, it just needs to help the Trapper get started with Early Game but not outshine his traps.
Another idea that could help with early game is to have all traps begin open, but that may bring its own problems.
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My problem with Trapper is that he doesn't have counter play unless you know where the traps are and he isn't chasing you. It's like getting stuck in a random trap is purely luck based. Also being able to stop survivors from using the only defense they have which is pallets is also annoying. It's hard to balance him though but I wish he was less random to play against.
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I like the sound of this
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I still say that the Darker Traps should be a default
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Wrong most times i do pretty good id say he is better on certain levels. People need to stop asking for nerf and buffs. When u do most times your still not happy. Killers should be stronger. Surviving should be tough hence the term survior. I play both sides i like both sides and yet i still feel killers should be stronger.
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The Trapper is perfect fine; just need a couple of tweaks and Buffs to make him viable with the average killers!
He is a Trapper, meaning he is very defensive territorial based killer! You want Survivor to come into your territory full of traps and herd them towards it; by hooking one or more Survivors, protect a perfect Three Gen area, as well as placing hidden and not hidden traps in conventional places that Survivors would run into! He doesn't need any Ranged attack, because that would be overwhelming overpower and defeat his background story/simple power mechanics!
The Trapper needs:
*2 Traps, instead of one Base kit capacity, which allow him to used other addons besides being limited to just one!
*Bear Trap RNG spawn placements needs to be more centered of the entire Map, instead of just spawn mostly in the side or corners of the maps! It waste precious time to go fetch for one Trap, from across the map; beyond your territory in which you will be unable to capitalize on Survivors Mistakes in stepping into traps!
*Injury Survivor, getting caught by the trap needs to be punished by Insta down or for fairness, Deep Wound effect, as they need to waste time healing; when freeing themselves from the trap by themselves! However, a teammate can help them get off the trap and be rewarded with no punishment, which promotes Aultristic plays!
*Survivors rescuing another Survivor from a bear trap, need to be slightly increased in the time it takes to get out of the trap; besides less then 2 seconds! I would make it between 4 to 5 seconds; so that it gives Trapper a chance to catch up!
*Bear Trap RNG needs to be reworked to be more fixated Time Set; when it comes to getting caught in a trap and struggling to escaped from the trap by yourself! Between 8 to 12 seconds! There are most common inconsistent with the escape time by Solo Survivors; in which they get caught and escape in less then 3 seconds in most games, or very unfortunate games in which it takes them more than a full minute to escape from the trap, because the Entity has forsaken with very bad rng!
**Dead Hard can be quite high skilled and powerful Exhaustion perk; when the skilled Survivor knows where your trap is placed and go straight through it without being caught! Instead of doing any changes to Dead Hard, I would make make so that Trapper doesn't step in his own traps when not carrying a Survivor! But I am not sure if that is a bit much, but I like the idea of Trapper being a aggressive killer whom can be careless when not focused on Survivors! Simple change would be to make it so, when not carrying a Survivor or chasing another individual; he doesn't get caught by his own traps! This makes it possible still used Deas Hard through the trap; but... Trapper would not be so clumsy when walking through his traps outside of a chase! In fact, the best way to get him to fall for it, is to get him to carry a Survivor or be engaged in a chase first!
** Object of Obsession is a very broken and not fun Survivor Perk; that can really make playing Trapper in the high Ranks impossible to play well against; because the user can literally know and call out to their teammate/or disable themselves if the killer ignore them! Free Aura Reading on all the traps the killer just places in the early game can really hurt you one simple killer power! A bit off topic; but Object of Obsession needs to be Rework so that it doesn't directly effect the Trapper; when used by Experience Good Players whom can ruined his power! Preferably the Trapper getting his aura reading block while placing traps or have a full 60 seconds or less of being undetectable; to give him a grand early game opportunity to place his traps!
The Trapper is by far not the weakest killers; he can be a excellent Snowball as well as a effectively anti-looping killer, if you play him right! As long as you knowledge his strength and weaknesses, and adapted to it and develop a strategy! Like most to all killers, he prays on mistakes Survivors makes and bait them towards his power; kinda like Huntress when wielding a Hatchet! Sometimes, the act of holding a bear trap and setting it up in the middle of the loop and fake cancel; can bait Survivors towards fleeing from the loop; just like the Huntress whom holds her Hatchet ready and threatens the fleeing Survivor by baiting them away from the closest safe loop!
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Trapper is fine the way he is. He just needs brown bag base kit. A bow is a terrible idea he is not a huntress.
You said it yourself even though you don't realize. Sometimes you win big, sometimes you lose big. That is called balance.
His add-ons are not that strong. I don't know why you think those four you listed are strongest but they are not. Of course they make his traps more dangerous... They are add-ons...should they make his traps weaker?
You make it sound like the trapper being good sometimes and bad others is his fault. You are the one controlling him. You are the one doing bad. Trapper is not worse than clown. The fact you say "worse than clown" kinda tells me your experience level. Clown gets 4ks.
Let's play out your idea for two seconds. Trappers caught you, he's taking you into the basement, he traps all the entrances, now he stands there with his bow pointed at his traps, so now he can deny all vaults while protecting his traps from range..................... yeah that sounds like soooo much fun, not OP at all
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So, rank 4 killer here I use the trapper pretty often and in the right hands he's actually very powerful. There almost no killer that can stop loops like he can and if played properly almost no killer able to end chases so quickly. You just have to herd survivors to where you need them. And if they don't. Then leave them and place your traps where they went before. Eventually they fall for it. Changing the trapper would be an unnecessary fix and there's definitely other killers that need buffs and reworks WAYYY more
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Trapper needs a few changes.
At base he needs to be able to carry 2 traps. Trapper without a bag add on is almost unplayable.
Traps should be less random. They need to be changed to be around 10 seconds to get out, 100% chance instead of 2 seconds to get out and 25% chance to get out.
How his traps spawn on the map should probably be nicer.
Other than that though, he's fine. He is a bit inconsistent depending on how good survivors are at spotting traps, but that isn't in my opinion a flaw.
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tbh I think this ultra game swap part is the most fun part imo
Had that as killer and survivor, and even as survivor I can't get that smile out of my face when all of a sudden everything falls apart
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I was thinking give him a secondary power to use like a snare gun (for placing traps obviously) or something, because being a TRAPPER and only having one kind of trap doesn't seem like the kind of thing a experienced trapper would do
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you could also just have a better logic to spawn them next to window/pallets or the attached walls, and spawn them active. there are a lot of ways to make him better without getting OP
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My suggestion :
Secondary power: Every 30s(?) the trapper can choose and reactivate 1 trap from distance (+16m), The animation take 3s(?) and slow him down a bit.
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He should be able to retrieve a trap from an empty locker. That trap would randomly take away an unarmed trap from the map. This allows for more convenient trap management.
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Honestly, Chuckles is one of those killers I have the hardest time against as survivor. I used to constantly have on Slippery Meat just so I can have a chance to get away. I'm a stealth survivor and I'm just not good at chases so when I step in a trap it's game over for me. It always takes me 4-7 (this is not an exaggeration) tries to get out of a beartraps and Slippery Meat used to reduce that somewhat. If I had to make a suggestion it would be to just give beartraps one long timer with a guaranteed escape.
The RNG is only favoring killer when the beartraps can be put in all 3 locations cutting off killer shack completely. His add-ons for injuring people that disarm and put survivors into dying when they release themselves are pretty ridiculous. The only way to counter this is to have self-care, 99% yourself and disarm as many as you can while doing the buddy system in pairs of 2.
This is another problem; some killers are undefeatable with situations like these if you play solo and don't have any communication.
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We can't spend the whole game walking around and staring at the ground, I don't really know how to rebalance him tho. Compared to stealth killers or killers that can down in one hit, he's not really bad comparably; it just seems that way because it's such a wierd kit, I think.
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a way to make traps slightly more consistent is having to "loosen the trap" before you can attempt to free yourself
a simple explanation that can be worked on or have values changed are this.
- survivors have to "loosen the trap" for 10 seconds before they can attempt escapes.
- if another survivor helps a survivor free themselves from the trap they can ignore having to "loosen the trap" and immediately free the survivor.
this would make traps take at least 10 seconds + how long it takes to attempt escape which helps fix his consistency a bit. of course the time can be adjusted but i'll let someone else figure out a better time.
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another idea is to have him trap generators, here's my idea for that.
- when on a generator you can use the secondary ability to trap the generator (the trap can be anything, i dont have a specific idea in mind maybe a nail bomb or something since he used to be in the mines and used explosives to trap people in it.
- when a survivor interacts with the trapped generator they have to complete a hard skill check, if they fail they are put into the injured state with a mending bar and the generator takes some progression damage.
- cooldown: he starts with the ability and after using it on a generator it starts to recharge. there is no limit to how many generators can be trapped. time it takes to recharge can be every 60-80 seconds.
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The Trappers weakness is coms. Literally. It doesn’t matter how good or how bad Trapper is because the moment Trapper initiates a chase or leaves a trap unattended someone says “There’s a trap over there!” so everyone else will disarm all your traps...
That’s why I don’t play Trapper. I leveled him up for his perks and that’s it. The only “viable” Trapper is Basement Trapper. Even then people know what to expect, and how to deal with it. Or they just let that 1 person die.
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The fix to trapper imo is a whole remake.
Make it so that lockers have the bear traps. Allowing Trapper to stockpile 3 traps as base kit, and then maybe 5 with his add ons.
Make it require a skill check to disarm his bear traps. Meaning Trapper can use perks like Huntress Lullaby and Unnerving Presence to increase the odds of players failing to disarm them. This will impose an actual risk on those who seek to disarm them.
Getting caught in the trap doesn’t damage survivors without specific add ons, but instead causes the hindered status effect for an X amount of time. If someone helps you break free the hindered status is reduced by half. Hindered only applies if you’re freed before the trapper gets to you first. Even after taking damage you suffer the hindered status effect until the timer ends, or you get downed.
When you’re caught in a REAL bear trap you just can’t take off all willy nilly. It’s ridiculous how I’ve seen players release themselves and then blast off... Your leg was just CLAMPED!!! IRL you’d be limping afterwards. Not taking off like track runners. Its stupid.
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