Red ranks killer isn't fun.
Honestly, I only play this game to have fun. Here is a list of why red ranks killer isn't fun.
- If you don't play perfectly, the game ends in 6 to 8 minutes. Not enough time to enjoy the match.
- Survivors regularly bring oppressive items. (Keys, Syringes, Styptics etc)
- Survivors regularly run extremely unfun crutch perks. (Decisive Strike)
- Survivors who want to win will split up on 4 different gens and there is absolutely nothing you can do to get more than one of them off in a timely manner
- The safe loops in this game are too safe and too numerous in how many exist in any given map
As killer, the exact same problems still exist that did years ago. Survivors are in complete control of the match. After 2000 hours I have come to know that Survivors who want to win will win 99% of the time. Survivors that are doing gens constantly, bam bam bam bam bam gens gens gens, wasting no time crouch walking around dumpsters or doing dull totems or even cleansing Ruin/Undying. Gens gens gens. When they do that, you feel helpless. What? How did 3 gens finish in the first chase? It's not just me either. I've watched a lot of the community's favorite streamers suffer the same experience. Otz, OhTofu, Truetalent mostly.
Boom boom boom gens done game over.
I don't think increasing gen repair time is the answer either. But, I really wish something would be done. I just want so desperately for this game to be fun at the competitive level but it isn't. It just feels so unfair all the time.
This game is the most fun at ~ 12 - 15 minutes a match, lots of chases and back and forth moments. Just like how games ending in mere minutes to gen rush isn't fun, so is slaughtering a bunch of noobs unfun. I don't want to 4k every match, I don't even care about kills. I just want to have fun and right now... yeah, it just isn't. Survivors jumping in lockers in front of me because they have DS from being hooked even though I wasn't chasing them. Unhooking in front of my face. Keys every other game. Syringers/Styptic pretty much every single game.
I guess i'll just play civilization?
Comments
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Here's a quote from good olé Mathieu Coté himself...
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Yeah, that's everyone's experience on red ranks.
Problem is, the devs seem to balance only around the kill/escape stats. On which most killers are in a good spot, since they get the aimed for 2 kills per match.
So there won't be any nerfs for gen times anytime soon. I even expect them to nerf Undying, because it's the new must have for killers. Just like the old Ruin.
Best you can do is switch to survivor or play something else.
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I've just uninstalled the game entirely, 0 things I could do as killer to enjoy my time again, I just wanted to play casually but apparently that's a nono, best thing to do is reverse boost yourself and just let survivors destroy you so that your rank drops so you can get out of the competitive mode ranks
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I just give a (Bad Word) anymore... which is bad
Now I just want to find players who either are new or want to practice/learn
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I feel like solo survivor at red ranks and killer people say are most frustrating at red ranks. As a survivor main I've started playing killer more and I'm having a blast.
Once I get to red rank as killer I don't know if I'll be frustrated like I am with survivor, because in my head I keep thinking with BBQ even if I don't do great it's still better then the points I get playing solo survivor.
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You are in for a surprise.
Btw, survivors and killers get roughly the same amount of bloodpoints.
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How can you make Killer more fun?
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By having 2 killers in a match. Or give killers extra perk slot.
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The whole point of video games is to have fun. If the game isn't fun and you feel it's unfair to you, don't play.
I was away for months because the challenges destroyed the game as a solo survivor. I just came back four days ago to see if it was any different and I've put in about 20 hours since then. Now that I'm back in purple ranks?
Ebony moris used as soon as possible in almost every other game.
Not a single syringe or styptic or key. No joke. I've always paid attention because killers always screamed on the forums about how fair all of those things were to justify the game-breaking ebony moris. Where was the ebony mori nerf? Insta heals got nerfed - syringes no longer insta heal, and the styptic isn't an insta heal at all.
I run DS and I'm shocked how often I'm the only person running it. Killers almost always go straight back to the hook, if they don't outright camp, and tunnel the person out of the game. DS won't save you from being mori'ed out of the game in 60 seconds when your random teammate makes an unsafe hook.
I'm glad though you let me know all I had to do as a survivor main was decide to win and then I'd win. I will never again have two teammates who haven't been hooked once self care in a corner, leaving me slugged for three minutes when I'm on death hook. I will never again have all three teammates stop doing gens when there are two to go, assuming everyone else will finish for them. I will never again die on my first hook to a facecamping Bubba. I'll never have a teammate refuse to play injured and spend the entire game hiding. I'll never cleanse four totems, and die to a garbage killer who hit me one time the entire game because not one of my teammates could do even one totem. I'll never have a teammate loot a key and stop playing, deciding early on that they will do nothing a just wait for everyone to die. THANKS FOR LETTING ME KNOW!
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Tbh, styptic is kinda anninsta heal, like apply on the right timer and boom its just the same as if the killer hit you through a 2nd health bar
Also m, trust me, there is a huge difference in the games i play when im purple ranked, and when im red ranked....purple rank feels way way better and funnier
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I know that fun is not the same for every person,but really how do you have fun with killer in red ranks ? survivors are always in control,oh the killer is chasing me let me go to the safe loop,u could say that is the killer fault for not pushing the survivors to dead zone/unsafe loop,problem is there are a lot of safe loops.And also what does it feels like chasing that survivor and then boom 3 gens done,what perk can slow the gens speed down in the situation like this ? none,you either need to pressure other survivors for ruin to work or hook someone else then pgtw will work.But while you are doing this the other 2 survivors are already completing the gen and the survivor that u were chasing is now working on a gen.
If you are losing/not pipping with survivors then you must be doing something wrong,either u cant loop or u are just poor at making decisions.Just do 2 gens,unhook a survivor,and loop a killer.boom u already pip even tho u dont escape u will still pip and thus having bigger chance getting a good randoms.And i also bet that no one will have fun playing the same killer every time,atleast for me and i guess most player thats not fun.But if u want to atleast do something in a game you are forced to use nurse/spirit.even then there are audio bugs that make spirit harder.
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Getting BBQ stacks over WGLF stacks seems easier to me. Plus if I fail at killer it's on me, having to rely on random teammates is frustrating.
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I played a Match with 4 Survivors.(Red Ranks) The first Survivor Disconnected at the start of the trial and i got 1 Hook WOW.
- Badham Maps are very stupid for Killer (1. Million Pallets)
- Dead Hard is so powerful that I lost the entire game because of it and had no fun.
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WGLF stacks are way easier to get than BBQ stacks.
You can get 3 stacks with 1 unhook.
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I disagree, I have fun while playing Killer. I dont enjoy it as much as Survivor, but as long as I dont do a marathon to level Hag during a double BP-Event, I have fun. Not in every game, but in general.
- "If you don't play perfectly, the game ends in 6 to 8 minutes. Not enough time to enjoy the match."
Nope. You can do mistakes as Killer. The only difference is that you dont have anyone to make up for your mistakes. Survivors might mess up and another Survivor is able to correct this, this isnt the case for Killer. But this is also not a guaranteed thing for Survivor, especially in Solo Queue one mistake can kill an entire team.
- "Survivors regularly bring oppressive items. (Keys, Syringes, Styptics etc)"
Not from my experience. At least not regularly. I think I see a Key every 10 games and the same goes for Syringes and Styptics. And even if they are used, you can counter those, since counting to 10 before a Hit will negate both Add Ons entirely. They are nowhere near as strong as before, they are still decent, but they are just one thing which got nerfed on the Survivor Side.
- "Survivors regularly run extremely unfun crutch perks. (Decisive Strike)"
Well, Survivors run good Perk as well. If you think they are "extremely unfun crutch Perks", fair enough, but they are in the game to be used. I also dont think its fun to go against a Killer who is using PGTW or multiple Slowdown-Perks. But they are free to use them as well, both sides are able to use strong stuff. And I am pretty sure you use good Perks as well as Killer.
- "Survivors who want to win will split up on 4 different gens and there is absolutely nothing you can do to get more than one of them off in a timely manner"
While this is the correct way to play, I see this happening quite rarely. Sure, if you want to be the most optimal, you are only on a Gen with another person during the last Gen. But whenever I play Survivor or Killer, it just looks like the Survivors go on the first Gen they see. Survivors are humans as well, so they are not optimal all the time.
IF a team splits up from the start, yes, this is the worst thing for the Killer. But, I would not say that there is nothing you can do, you can still win a game, its not like it is impossible to win at this point.
- "The safe loops in this game are too safe and too numerous in how many exist in any given map"
Eh. This only goes for a few Maps, if I think about it from my head, Haddonfield, Ormond, Cowshed and Asylum are the worst ones currently. And they will most likely get reworked eventually, but for most Maps, you have only a few safe Loops. And this is also a problem for the Survivor-Side.
There should be way more Pallets on the Maps which are unsafe. Currently, Maps are build with like 8-12 Pallets (most of them), but it should be double the amount. But less safe Pallets, like 3-4 safe Pallets on the Map, rest of them more unsafe. This would solve the problem that a Killer 100% has to kick the Pallets and also solves the problem on the Survivor Side that one person cannot waste all Pallets and nothing is left for the rest.
"I've watched a lot of the community's favorite streamers suffer the same experience. Otz, OhTofu, Truetalent mostly."
Well, here is a clip from Otz (the title is not relevant, but what he says):
Does not sound like he has a problem when playing Killer. And if you look his streams, he also does not get stressed as Killer, quite rarely. Otz should not be the standard, but it is wrong to say that he says that Killer isnt fun in Red Ranks.
Same goes for Tofu, if he says he is getting genrushed, it is just a joke of him. According to him, "Gen Rush" is the product of your own bad Map Pressure.
I wont comment on tru3, my opinion is not the highest, to say at least. Someone once made Stats for a few Streamers and tru3 gets an average of 3 Kills per game. So I doubt that his experience is that miserable.
In general, Killer got easier and easier over the time. In fact, Killer got that easy, that Billy deserved some Nerfs, which is a sign that stuff, which was fine a few years ago, might not be fine anymore now, since playing Killer got easier. I also know for sure that you dont have to play optimal to be at Rank 1 as Killer, because I am surely not playing optimal. And I should not be at Rank 1, but I am, because the game is not hard for either side. Killer is the more difficult role, but that is because you are alone and the side with 1 person will have it more difficult than the side with 4 persons. And it should be that way, because if you would gain more BPs, have the more variety in gameplay AND have the easier time as Killer, nobody would play Survivor, except for it being the only option to play with friends.
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I have some advice for you, I have found myself feeling the same way about being in red ranks. You tunnel and I mean HARD. You let them unhook in your face and chase that guy for 10 sec or so before belting him in case its BT. If he gets in a locker for DS just stand there and wait it out. You ruin that guys experience for the betterment of all of us.
In return, you achieve a few things which are more fun than playing killer rn.
- End game lobby is the BEST when you play toxic.
- You derank to play more games that are fun.
- 2K will still give you decent BP with BBQ.
Lemme know how you go. Us who play both sides know the truth, this game cannot be defined by its statistics which are skewed across the horrible MM system. It is grossly in our favor if you survivor main. We want more for and from killers and I know you have invested a lot of time and money in this game. I expect more, it still feels a bit like an early release. Demand more from the devs (who have admitted they don't play the game).
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This game is still super killer sided. The majority of loops are actually horrendous for survivors. Killers walk around them with ease. They can get you on the other side almost immediately after you’re done vaulting by lunging around the wall/debris. It’s ridiculous.
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Brother, he is talking about red ranks
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You don't get BBQ stacks in red ranks on bad/hard games. If your absolutely brilliant, on your toughest games, you'll hit 6 hooks roughly but if your bad/make any little error, you'll hit less < 4 and the game will be over before you even know it. Survivor if i had to estimate in term of difficulty in red rank is like maybe 4/10 or 5/6/10 if you struggle with it. you can almost run any perks on survivor really and probably be successful to good margin.
Killers used to be like 5/10 and 6/10 in term of difficulty and while it wasn't a cakewalk, it was not bad. Now a days, It feels like 7/10 or even 8/10 in term of difficulty. The games you lose/draw feel like predetermined outcomes where no real input was really given on difficult maps and other matches were just cakewalks that even if you ran no perks or add-on, outcome would been the same. Currently I just feel like the game is so flooded with Information perks on killer from like BBQ,Discordance,Whispers,Infectious fright,Nurse calling and many other information perks that will activate more than once per match but it just has no passive impactful abilities or perks that give discrete tactical advantage or that really craft any real creative gameplay that allows you to play outside the box. Most of the killer perks can be acquire through skill and experience without really equipping the perk and will not really help you in a competitive match. Its main why I find killer in red ranks not as fun as survivor. Not much room for creativity, any creativity or play-style you craft either becomes mainstream or erased from the game because its different. Any game you will lose fast will happen out of your control and any game that was going to be a win will be a win for you.
There is just this lack of tension and nail biting thrill that was present in the game compare to before. It is not exactly the loops or survivor perks but more of lack of fun in losing or winning with killer. Winning is amazing as survivor and losing doesn't feel as bad. Winning as killer is like buisiness as usual and losing feels demoralizing. Survivor just feels more fun and killer looks like its just downhill slope as there is very little risk or much progression for killer other than tune down over last yearly updates.
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Haha I feel the same. I'm sure you enjoy a challenge as much as I do, but the stress level, not so much. Lol. You nailed it with the "those gens got done in one chase....."
That and it just feels even more draining when you're getting wreckers Haven and Cornfield constantly; just back and forth with those two maps between each other for ~8 hours a play session is so draining. I wish they would have a non-ranked mode, where it will put you against any rank, just a big melting pot of players. I'm relatively new to the game, (just over 200hours) and there are still a handful of killers I have not touched yet, that I would love to play and get use to with and have more of a "chill" experience then 'welp there goes another 7mins game'
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I'm trying hard to get into killer. I got to rank 1, and I am literally trying to derank so I can run gimmick builds and play styles as well as learn killers I have purchased and not bad the chance to play because I get stomped. This is alongside not having optimal perks for those killers.
Way I see it, killers are not feared. This game has the roles in reverse and the killer is the one that is scared to chase for risk of 3 gens popping. Killers are not killers, they're generator defenders and resemble scarecrows more than anything.
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That's fine. Killers should be OP.
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To me the problem is that rank progession is too fast. I'm fairly new to the game, I have less than 150 hrs invested in the game as a Killer (has some hours learning survival to understand how to play against them). I'm still learning how to play the game, how to counter loops, what perks combos can a survival have, etc. And I'm playing as a rank 1 killer. Been facing red ranks since I was rank 10. Most of my game are vs survival with 1-2k hours played. Yes, playing those match make me learn more about the game, but most of the time I have games where I can't do much.
My queue time are fast, 20 sec and I find a match.
Don't get me wrong, I still won games with 3k or 4k. Most survival in rank 1 play like they're new to the game just like me, witch feel wrong.
Don't know what can be done to improve the QoL in the match system really, I have seem so many MMR system fails so hard that I don't think it can be done right (at least in cooperative games).
PD: sry if my english is bad, I'm from Argentina XD.
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I agree it is too stressful. I like to derank to 7 or 8 then it's fun again. I'm on console so lower framerate and stuff does not help in red ranks.
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One of the most entailed survivors I have ever heard. Literally just said everything he said is wrong and you're right instead in the most condescending way possible. Very nice person.
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Instead of crying on the internet- you can get over your bragging rights, stop playing so competitively and de-pip yourself into a more casual range
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That is your advice? Be even more toxic? if killers quit playing like that there would be less toxic survivors. 99% of survivors run DS because most killers tunnel. Same thing with Unbreakable. You hardly ever saw it for the first few years until slugging became a thing.
Will there still be toxic survivors even if all the killers stopped tunneling and being slugging? Probably. Will you come across almost every survivor running UB and DS? No. DS & UB is not the action. It's the reaction.
So keep advising more killers to play like you and there will be nothing but toxicity in this game.
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Are you really talking bad of the unsafe loops? The only type of loop that have mind games? If yes, you must be using Ormond and Badham offerings constantly.
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Why would anyone listen to advice from Dwight exactly?
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If killers want any actual kills, they have to tunnel or camp or both because of the gen rush and the nature of chases. By the time we hook anyone there's only a couple gens left. Yeah we could go chasing after other survivors, and maybe get a second hook before the gates are powered. Good luck getting a kill at that point.
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99% of survivors run decisive strike because it makes you invincible.
You didn't see unbreakable for the first few years because it didn't exist.
DS and UB are absolutely the action. You would still see everyone run them no matter the state of the meta because they are just the best perks in the whole game.
There already is nothing but toxicity in this game.
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Honestly I'm just so damn sick of the map offerings more than anything else red ranks throws at me. The balance and stuff wears off after a while and I get less upset with it.
I refuse to believe anybody uses these things in red rank to not just completely ruin the killers night. Every few games it's an Ormond offering or something of the like and I know right off the bat the survivors are just out to not let me enjoy the game at all. I'll always be fine with just randomly loading into an unfavorable map, but being sent there just sucks all the fun out of the game and sacrificial wards are too inconsistent to do anything, you can't afford one every game.
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Sorry but you are wrong on ALL accounts.
Out of all my friends I am one of 3 people that doesn't run DS or UB and you know what everyone asks me? "Why don't you run them if you're getting tunneled and slugged all the time?" My answer is "I don't want trash killers dictating what perks I'll use"
Unbreakable was around for a LONG time and unused until killers started slugging after the Hex: Ruin perk was changed.
Out of the dozens of friends I've played with over the years, every single one of them but 1 person got downed on purpose in order to use DS to get out. It was by the gate too. I never played with him after that. I've seen friends go into lockers to force DS, yes, but that is because they were being tunneled to begin with.
As far as your last statement goes, read the above. I've made dozens of friends in this game. Killer and Survivor mains.
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Yeah, no... If you HAVE to tunnel, it means you are either staying on a chase too long or had a hard time finding someone to start with. That is not you getting gen rushed. That is you not applying pressure.
Besides. The game is set up to give survivors an early advantage BEFORE the killer snowballs pressure. That is why 99% of the time if someone dies early in the game and it turns into a 3v1 the game is lost. Out of the years I've played this game, we as a team have overcome an early death maybe a handful of times.
So enough with this "gen rush" stuff please. If you tunnel it's because your skill as the killer is NOT enough to get you the 4 kills you crave and feel you HAVE to have in order to FEEL like a winner.
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Actually my skill as a killer ISN'T good enough to compete with full red rank teams. I can deal with purple okay and green is too easy, so I get why matchmaking is a difficult needle to thread, but when I want ONE kill for whatever reason I feel like, it usually comes down to camping. When the opportunity presents itself I'll tunnel, but with BT and DS it's usually more of a delayed tunnel.
I guess the alternative would be afk wraith to derank, but that's as boring for me as it is for survivors.
Gens are rushed. Sorry you don't like that, but they are. Survivors are camped/tunneled. It is what it is.
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You act like red ranks survivor is fun. I play both sides and neither at Red ranks at the greatest. I face toxic, whiny killers all the time that blame their character for messing up instead of themselves and survivors who think they're the best and can't die. Red ranks means nothing and takes no skill to get there anymore, if you've never heard a survivor say this, then you've got the world's shittiest memory, but "Don't go to Red ranks, enjoy (low rank)." Red ranks takes no skill to get there anymore and people that have rank 8 skills are at rank 3. Also, everyone has crutch perks and add-ons, like iri huntress, tinkerer + ruin + undying, DS + unbreakable, brand new parts (since syringes aren't run as much since they're not particularly worth it).
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It gets better, I have determined that Monstrous shrine, Iron Grasp, Agitation and BBQ and Chilli (or if I see SWF, Insidious) will guarantee EXCEPTIONAL levels of salt in end game lobby plus a 4k.
I have currently got a 100% success rate in red ranks running this on the Trapper. All I have to do is tunnel 1 person down and drag them to my basement and trap it up. The rest will come like flies to a turd to meet their demise.
If you build it...people will come.
The only issue now is whether I safety PIP or +1 (Bad outcomes). The whole idea was to derank to purples for actual fun games but now I am totally conflicted for as long as this works. Plus the BP isnt too bad for me...I might get 25k a game that lasts 4 rushed gens. Survivors generally average 20k between them and are probably losing ranks too. Meh....whatever I am having fun :)
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I can see tunneling/camping at endgame phase as a means to try and secure a kill. Any other time, though I see it as a disregard to the fact that you are playing against another person that loaded into your game to also have fun. Which proves my point.
So yeah... Tunneling someone to get them out of the game with 4K points and having them spend more time watching others play or sitting in a lobby for another 5 minutes is pretty sad. And that is why so many people are bringing in DS and UB.
Again... Not saying that all survivors are saints. But toxicity is a vicious cycle and it will only get worse. I can't tell you how many excuses I've heard from tunneling killers. And then they come in here and complain about DS UB and keys. le sigh
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Well as far as I can tell, anything a killer does that prevents a survivor from popping gens in a timely fashion is toxic.
Tunneling at any point is a losing tactic. Killers who do it are either completely new, or cutting their losses as best they can.
You'll pardon my lack of empathy for the poor red ranks who might not manage a pip that game.
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I really, really wish any of that were true, but you're either lying, don't play this game, or extraordinarily lucky.
Unbreakable has been meta literally since Bill was released, just like Borrowed Time.
You're kind of defeating your own argument by telling me that literally everyone you play with uses Decisive Strike offensively.
I can tell you've probably never played Killer, and as a result don't really know what you're talking about, but you can continue spouting your misinformed opinion all you like.
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way I see it, anything a killer does is toxic. survivors then have the audacity to say more killers are more toxic. they neglect to understand that 1 toxic killers =/= 4 toxic survivors. plus what killer has time to be toxic. if you play a map offering to begin with or run bnp/key or stay when the gates are open for no reason you are an entitled cry baby. At least I am having fun. Toxic killers are the real heroes in this community, they are the salvation of this game and they will right the wrongs built into the gameplay mechanics.
I will bet that the game you get mori'd is because of the toxicity of the survivors in the killers previous match.
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Pot meet kettle.
I've played this game since Bubba was the new killer. And no, UB was not meta until slugging was meta. Also, I never said that my friends use DS offensively, so I don't know where you pulled that from.
But I like your style. Go on with your bad self calling me names when someone calls you out on your baseless comments. I had no idea eight year olds had access to the forums
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So bringing items, add ons and offerings make you a toxic survivor? Riiiiiiight.
Fyi, I don't mind moris. The only thing I will trash talk is tunneling. But you do you. Tunnelers are a dime a dozen and they will look for any excuse to do it. Much like what you said. "Map offering? I gotta tunnel now". Why should you be any different?
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That's not true. Not in my four years playing this game. I've gotten destroyed in swf and solo and congratulated the killer if the match was a good one.
Tunnelers and obvious campers on the other hand I just can't stand. Camping had gone down a lot and hadn't been a problem until crossplay brought in a big batch of console killers that do nothing but camp and tunnel.
Stinky
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ah yes, the tried and true "i'm wrong! better start calling my opponent 8 years old"
i've played this game since before nurse was even a killer, dude.
"Out of all my friends I am one of 3 people that doesn't run DS or UB"
"Out of the dozens of friends I've played with over the years, every single one of them but 1 person got downed on purpose in order to use DS to get out."
also, I... didn't call you any names, lol. So I don't know where you pulled that from :)
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I have fun as certain red ranked killers (Huntress) without slowdown perks that I can't have with lower ranked survivors (they tend to dc and get incredibly salty). It does mean I go for long, ineffective chases and then get everybody down all at once, so if that's not fun for you, I understand your position.
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You said that I'm lucky or a liar and you also said that I don't know what I'm talking about.
Also, I don't know why you chose to quote me without actually reading what I wrote. Yes, almost everyone uses DS. No, they don't use it offensively. They don't TRY to get downed on purpose so they can use it.
The 1 person I mentioned used it offensively by getting downed ON PURPOSE next to the exit gate just to DS the killer, teabag him and leave. That person is not in my list and I don't play with him anymore.
My point on UB stands. I only saw a spike on it when Hex Ruin was changed and killers started slugging a lot more because of that. Say what you will but I was there for it. Before that people were not bringing it often.
My point stands. Pot meet kettle.
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It's been my experience thus far that red rank types, be they players or killers tend to be the players that are most abusive and dickish in behavior. Easily 7 out of 10 times, if someone did something ######### it's a red rank. The exception generally being camping which seems to be low ranks that think this is a valid tactic.
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I just had a red rank game that was still fun despite losing it since 3 people escaped and the last guy d/ced out of spite. But most of the fun came from the salt from the survivors who were upset I didn't play in a way they wanted me to play.
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It's also not the only time Killers are told this. Even with the updates you can see that there just isn't a care. They know they are going to keep getting new Killers in - that start the game, stay a while to play with friends, and then leave because the game is too easy, or leave because playing Killer is too stressful.
They can't keep Killers, but they have an endless supply of new ones, and Killers that keep coming back to see if things are better.
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