Keys Are Worse Than Moris
I personally think that Keys are worse for the game than moris, but they are both terrible. Why? It has to do with both sides objectives and the way you complete them. Lets start with Moris
Moris
The Ebony Mori allows you to personally kill anyone who has already been hooked. Now, this is very powerful, but when you actually think about, all it really does it make it so that your first hook into your struggle hook, as the next time you get downed, you will be killed. So that is very strong, but there is a catch. You should not be getting downed in the first place! Moris are very powerful, don't get me wrong, but a good survivor can negate its effects by not getting downed. Which I know kind of sounds dumb, but at the very least it means that if you are doing your role properly, you can negate its effects. That being said, face camping with a Mori is absolutely horrible and is a crime against humanity, but I think we all know about that by now.
Keys
Keys, on the other hand, are complete BS. This is because it allows Survivors to say "I don't want to that objective" and escape. This is a huge problem, as there are many killers whose powers are based around the idea of forcing survivors into bad positions via the objective, for example The Trapper. So when the trapper spends his time setting up his traps, preparing a nasty three gen, and killing a survivor, the key lets all three of the other survivors escape via hatch, completely negating the killer's power. To make matters worse, the key punishes killers for, well, killing people. The more people you kill, the less gens the survivors have to do to escape. So if you are doing your job, you get punished. That is incredibly stupid. But the worse part of it is that as Killer you get denied the hooks that the survivors have, meaning that you are incredibly likely to lose some rank. You can counter it by bring Franklin's Demise, but you are giving up a perk slot for that.
Conclusion
While both of these items have the effect of negating an objective for their side, Keys are worse because there is no way to easily counter without giving some up. Keys also completely counter territorial killers on certain maps.
Comments
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so the mori counter is "just dont go down"?
yeah, thats not gonna happen. maybe a year or two ago this could have been a valid argument, but not anymore.
i dont think it matters which is stronger than the other, fact is that both are absolutely busted and need to be changed.
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You do realise that to use a key you have to do all thr gens when all 5 are left..... if not the hatch will only spawn when you have at least 3 gens done if there are two of you left. So your logic is incorrect you can't just walk into a match, do one gen and all get out
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Yeah, Both are completely BS. I just always found keys as a killer more annoying than moris as a survivor, but that could be because I tend to play around the endgame a lot, so I have to deal with keys all the time. But what really matters, as you mentioned, is that they fix both of them. You should not be able to just not do an objective because you have a certain item, that is stupid.
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I have had multiple times where I have set up a three gen as trapper, killed on of the survivors, and then had the other three escape via hatch. Similar to Moris, they don't entirely negate the task of doing gens or opening the door, but they make it so that you don't have to all of them, just enough to get the hatch to spawn.
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Counter for Mori's: JUST DON'T GET KILLED BRO
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both of them can be used in ways where its not a problem for the other side.
i dont really mind someone opening hatch and escaping after i closed it and i dont think anyone minds a red mori used by the killer to kill whoever is on deathhook anyway.
but then you can also have keys on a genrush group with the sole goal of hitting the gen threshold and then getting out asap - or killers who instantly tunnel down the one person they hooked just to mori them and have a kill at 4 or 5 gens.
and its exactly those scenarios that i think they need to take a lot at.
for example, why not limit the mori use to it only being active after everyone was hooked at least once? that would succesfully eliminate the unhook tunnel at 5 gens and give survivors more of an ability to work around it.
and maybe Skeleton Keys could have a limited amount of people that can escape with them, which could be increased with Add Ons - why not have 2 escapes base and 2 UR Add Ons that both add 1? or have 1 escape base, a VR Add On that adds 1 and a UR Add On that adds 2? - Dull Keys should be limited to only work for the user after the hatch has been closed, as i think they are way too busted for being VR currently.
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I'm going have to hard disagree with you here. Just yesterday I was found first downed after a decent chase. Unhooked tunneled then moried. And because I don't run meta ds I didn't get to play the game. At least with keys you have to do 4 gens, which again I don't run. 9 times out of 10 when I get a mori it's a camp and tunnel.
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Haha yeah! Absolutely! The best strategy to winning as survivor is to not get caught in the first place too! How genius!
Very poor attempt at bait. Maybe you didn't realize, but if you bring a mori, you will always get to use it during the match. If you bring a key, there is a high chance that you won't get to use it.
And don't even bring up emblems, because getting mori'd off of the first hook also makes you lose your rank. On an even larger scale than keys.
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Keys and mori's are good.
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easy counter to keys, just don't let any gens pop and slug for the 4k. a good killer will apply enough pressure that no gens get done and so the hatch doesn't appear until you've got the last survivor hooked.
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I will be honest I say I have been tunneled with a mori exactly one time, so I never really cared to much about it. But now that I think about that, then yeah, Moris and Keys are both equally terrible. I completely forgot about that, and that kind of negates one of my major arguments. Also, what I meant by the whole "just don't get downed" is that for certain killers, like trapper, setting up a 3 gen is very important for certain builds, and Keys can make that strategy useless if one person is killed, while for the Mori not getting downed is something you should always be doing. I don't think that any one can just avoid not being downed, again Moris as still BS, but I hate how it can negate any endgame strategies.
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Mate, I am in red ranks. People know how to get gens done. I recognize that my whole "just don't get downed" argument was bad and missed the point I was trying to make, but expecting me to able to stop all gens from popping and slugging everyone is even more stupid and dumb. Not even the best Killer mains can expected to do that consistently.
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The thing is, DS wouldn't even save you here, you just die on the ground, it's big sads.
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Ehhh, hard disagree - survivors actually have to do a fair amount of their objective to use keys to any effective level, the only time keys are annoying is when you they have three gens done and you've killed two, and the other two get to escape, but even then, you've killed two, and two escape, it isn't a total loss.
If you're efficient enough you can have all survivors moried before they can even get two gens done if you play well with the right killer.
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Just don't get downed 4head, why didn't I think of that?
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Keys require a lot more effort to be able to use than Moris. All you need to do for Mori is hook someone once unless it’s a last person Mori. Where as to keys you need to either be the last to survive or all gens need to be done. A lot more work for survivors to be able to even use the key wouldn’t you say?
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Mories have bigger impact, but losing to them feels much less worse than to keys, bc keys basically steal your victory, while mories just make game much harder.
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This is bait, right?
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I understand, and I appreciate that you recognize that the "don't get downed" argument is just as bad as my "just don't let gens pop" argument, which really is the point I was trying to make.
honestly I think both Mori's and Keys are in a bad place. it is absolutely correct to rework them. I think keys should limit the number of survivors that can escape (there is an achievement/trophy for a 4 man key escape, so they need to keep that possible, but maybe only with a pink key and maybe a pink addon for a key) but I also think Mori's should be 1 Mori per completed gen
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Keys: surviver have to gen for hatch, you can camp this guy they have the key, the killer can see the surviver have a key, when you see they dint do more gens you can search them and pick them out, most time i reduce them to 1 surviver they go in to hatch
Mori: hook the first surviver and then when he is unhooked, tunnel him, when he is run away and drop all pallets bloodlust him and ez kill no ds no ub, when all surviver tank for him, better for you nobody do a gens, if you dont act stupid you get it ez down...
when you say to us MoRiS aRe nOt sO wOrSe tHeN kEyS then yah then you only are f..ing blind mainkiller...
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They're both awful but moris are far more broken.
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Keys are uncompariable to Mori's. The hatch was added to the game to stop the game from being taken hostage. Mori's was added to the game so that the Killers could have a cool unique animation that didn't only involve hooking a survivor.
Remove the Hatch from the game, and make Mori's only usable if the survivor had already reached their second hook phase.
Problems solved.
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I play both roles pretty evenly and whilst both are frustrating to play against, moris are easily the stronger out of the two, although context does matter.
If the survivors are not the most optimal at looping or working the generators efficiently and are against a top tier killer like Nurse, Spirit, etc, then they can't really do anything against the mori itself whereas, a killer in an average game is capable of fighting against a key, although still annoying.
The only time keys have the capabilities of rivaling a mori in strength is if more than one survivor brings a key and they're in a sweaty SWF.
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I think that would be an interesting rework for the Moris, but that might have some unintended consequences. My solution for the hatch was to have the hatch "take" a hook stage away, so if a survivors has not been hooked the killer gets points as if they hooked them once, if a survivor is on death hook the killer gets treated as if they were sacrificed, and so on and so on. I don't think that is the best solution, but it would be easy to implement. I also think that moris are more powerful than keys, but you can find a key in a middle of a match and carry four of them, a killer has to bring a mori in. They both need fixing, but I just find keys to be more frustrating to deal with than a mori.
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To be fair, the killer downing a survivor and hooking them is completing his objective, which isn't always easy when you consider low-tier killers, strong survivor maps, a particular combination of survivor perks, etc.
It's easier to activate, but suggesting a mori is piss easy to activate isn't realistic at all.
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I don't think I ever had an ebony mori killer who didn't hunt the freshly unhooked off of first hook to kill them right away.
Plus, mori off the first hook completely disregards survivor perks and robs the them of points as well and causes most in the team to depip, even if they weren't morid. The counter of "just don't get downed" isn't good enough. You have to not get caught in the first place if you want any chance of surviving a mori.. which means playing extremely immersed which also loses one bp and pips.
While the animation is cool, in my experiences the only reason killers will run a mori is to purposefully ruin a survivors game.
Meanwhile I don't get why people make it sound like hatch is up 100% of the time without needing to put any work in. You still need to survive and do at least three gens to get anywhere.
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They both need to go. I personally think keys are worse for one reason alone. They can be randomly found throughout the match. If you see a mori you know "Oh killer is sweaty I should be too" If you see a key in the lobby you know "Okay survivors are sweating I should too" but finding a key in a chest is a LITERAL random chance at an insanely powerful instant escape tool. It would be like if hitting a survivor had a 0.5% chance to instantly kill them.
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Keys and moris are literally the same thing.
Do part of your objective and win like you did all of it. They are both equally bad for the game.
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So your counter to Moris is don't go down? You know how ignorant you sound? People make mistakes and that go down and get hooked. You can't be serious when you say that we "shouldn't go down" This is a game everyone is going to make mistakes but I don't believe that they should be punished by getting killed by a Mori. I agree that keys are bad but they're not worse than Moris. You have to get a specific number of gens done before you can use said key. Besides the killer and just remember who has a key and tunnel them to death. So I don't see how that's worse then Moris
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You have to do all 5 gens to get the hatch they already nerfed the key remember when it used to be only 3 gens. THEY NEED TO NERF MORI IT MAKES THE GAME BORING I swear killers think ever survivors is some red rank YouTuber who can run them for 5 gens 🤦🏽♂️
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