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Killers That Instantly Tunnel Because There's No Obsession...
Comments
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The examples you laid involve no human interaction and that's where your argument falls flat. Playing like a jerk =/= from trying to win even in dbd. Sandbagging for example is game-losing jerk move and camping is not necessarily a jerk move, ex: killer in the ECG protecting his kill, more than one hooked in the basement. But doing it in the start of the game against a competent team will lead to the loss of key gens. There is more to this game than securing a kill 4 minutes into the match only for 3 ppl escape.
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If all I see is the unhooked person and the other person is a ninja, I'll eat the DS and finish them off. Survivors need to work together sometimes, I am not going to just "let you go" because you are entitled. Don't want to tunnel? Then give me someone else to chase. I only tunnel when the person is a troll or I don't see the person that rescued. As for the people that play "efficiently" and tunnel, well that's too bad, but I am sure those people eat DS all day, it is what it is. Work together a bit and tunneling isn't that big of a problem, I see killers trying to tunnel and I will body block them and "pull aggro" so to speak. Try a little bit and enough with the QQ. Don't expect anything from either side and you'll enjoy the game more, just expect the worst and put up the best fight you can, that's all you can do..
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Because unfortunately the best thing a killer can/should do is get someone out the game asap. That's the real flaw in the game design if you have a problem with tunneling, the game is designed in a way where that's what they want killers to do.
Also, seeing as survivors see no problem tunneling gens to 100%, I don't think its fair to ask the other side not to do the same for their objective. If you want killers to stop tunneling kills than we need survivors to stop doing gens so fast as well. Not going to happen.
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This is why the game needs a mode against bots.
I'm not in it to grief and bully other players but on the flipside when I have to constantly think of their feelings while playing a merciless killer who's out to kill them asap before they escape, it kind of defeats the purpose.
Not every game has to be a mori murder fest but you can't tell me it isn't fun to do that from time to time, its the most thematic thing a killer can do.
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I just hate playing against it as killer, since it's used against me offensively more often that it's used defensively and eating even a single DS can be devastating. I don't like it enough as killer that I choose not to use it as survivor.
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Just had four games in a row where the killer camped and tunneled every single person. It's just absolutely miserable to play as a solo survivor without it.
How is it used offensively? Going into a locker?
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Please try to avoid arguments from entitlement. "You can't fix a problem survivors are having without fixing a different, unrelated problem killers are having" is just perpetuating the tribalism on this forum.
I 100% agree with your proposed change to DS. That should not be done to compensate for killers no longer being able to tunnel with reckless abandon in matches with no obsession, though. That should be done because DS is overpowered. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it's a good thing for killers to have free reign to tunnel in matches with no obsession.
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When I hook somebody, I usually look around the area to se if I can find those cheeky survivors that unhook right after I turn away from the hook, if I don't find them I just go for whoever I saw on BBQ/Discordance/Tinkerer/etc. After a survivor is unhooked, most of the time I don't really care if the guy was just unhooked or not, whoever I run into and is easier to get down I smack them. If I have to slug them a bit in order to bypass DS I just wait in the vicinity looking for other survivors around.
I don't get why some guys unhook people next to the killer without BT and not taking a protection hit so the guy doesn't get instantly downed again...just farming for BP I guess.
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Baiting and diving into lockers is a common example, yeah. You'll often see survivors immediately run off to work on key generators after getting unhooked, then try to bait the killer into a chase if they approach, and then jump right into a locker if the killer takes the bait.
You'll see survivors go for insanely unsafe saves without BT because they know the survivor on the hook also has DS and Unbreakable. Even if the save fails it's not likely the killer is going to babysit the slug for 60 seconds. You'll also see the same situation in reverse too, like when a survivor with DS/UB that was already fully healed can pretty much make any hook save they'd like. You'll see people try to bait the killer into chasing them to a hook and grabbing them to make DS proc, so you have to look out for that as a killer.
When playing as an instadown killer, I've straight up seen freshly unhooked people with DS/UB body block for healthy teammates because they know that there is no chance of them getting hooked unless the killer wants to babysit the slug for like 45 seconds.
I make an effort not to tunnel as killer, so these sorts of cases are ones I constantly have against people with DS. When people aren't being tunneled, DS all of a sudden becomes a get out of jail free card to play as aggressive as you'd like for a minute (especially when paired with UB).
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Tunneling is a mechanic that is discouraged in DBD. That is why perks like BBQ, BT, DS, etc. exist. These perks are powerful so as to discourage the killer from tunneling. Your comment is essentially denying that tunneling exists, which is just incorrect. Survivors will make mistakes by not playing cautious enough, but killers will 100% tunnel survivors into the ground, especially when they know DS isn't in play, or if they're a killer like PH with a strong chase power that can ignore DS.
DS should be nerfed in my opinion because survivors will use it aggressively, as you said. This thread is about games with no DS, though. This has nothing to do with survivors playing bold because their DS/UB/Soul Guard makes them invincible. This is talking about actual tunneling.
When I say "entitlement", I am just referring to the fact that you're not treating OP's complaint on its own merits, but rather by whether a change to address this would be better or worse for your preferred side. You've concluded it would be worse, and so you've suggested other nerfs to compensate. There is no reason for nerfs to one side to always be paired with nerfs to the other side. The question is simply "is this specific thing a problem?" If the answer is yes, we should address it, period. That doesn't mean there aren't other issues that need addressing, but those too should be weighed on their own merits. I just disagree with the premise of needing to change one side because the other side got a change
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I'm not the most experienced at this but learned watching someone play both sides.
Sometimes, from my pov you no matter what you do you seem to only find (respectfully) that guy). I've tried to hook someone and then opposite side of the map or just get off the hook site. Find someone, then he runs me to the hooked survivor. Literally taking them off as I'm right there.
Not saying this is you or others but its like....well what am I supposed to do? I've left many people fresh off the hook lying there hopefully someone gets y'all up but I'm not gonna pass it up.
Sucks to get set up. At the same time....how can I not take what's been given. Bad teammates ?
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I don't think we're playing the same game. It doesn't matter if you're a good survivor, a killer will always get you since they're faster than you. Pallets aren't infinite and get destroyed.
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There should be an obsession in each match.
Would make those obsession challenges as killer a lot easier too.
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ez fix, there is always an obsession.
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I would only agree with that in certain situations. Most of the time, if you eat a DS, it is terrible for you as the killer. You're gifting the survivor a free health state, you'd need like 20 seconds to catch them again if they just hold W away and don't loop you, and throughout this time everyone else can be doing gens. If you slug that survivor, you apply pressure and pull someone off a gen to go for the save. That's a usually the better play.
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Even if you're good at looping, you should not be able to run a killer of similar skill indefinitely / until you make a mistake. Plenty of killers have good anti-loop in their kit. There are not always going to be safe tiles within reach to chain together. You're not going to win every mind game. Bloodlust exists. The killer needs to be seriously messing up if they can't end a chase without needing the survivor to make a mistake, assuming reasonably fair matchmaking.
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Only one map lol, on reworked maps is twice less pallets
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If you disagree with me, you're bad at the game hurr durr
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Killers tunnel a lot because they do not get punished for it enough.
I've had many matches where the killer just literally sits by the hook and waits for the survivor to die, and in every match they get at least 2 kills before the exit gates are opened and the other two escape.
How many bloodpoints do they get from that? Oh nothing much, just like 20k+ whereas the SECOND camped survivor barely pass 12k.
How can you as a survivor who is just trying to get some BPs not be incentivized to just play tunnel killer when you see that every tunneling killer is making such exorbitant amounts of BPs and get at least a pip when all they do is hook two survivors and camp them to death? No stress, nothing complicated. And when you try to play killer normally you barely gain any extra BP, 23-27k, unless you do perfectly.
Either killers need to have their BP gain for tunneling and camping SEVERELY handicapped or they will never have a reason to not tunnel, and I don't know about you but a steady ~20k BP per match sounds kinda nice to me. Not fun, but the devs have made it a no brainer if I just want to farm consistent BPs.
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If ds ub and bt didnt exist, killers would legit win a match faster than ever. Tunnel off hook and bam do it once more and 1v3 at 4 gens left almost 3 Nd then you now can not lose unless the people you go against are gods or you suck ass(hence why you played like that) and then you can just do the same over again, ruining everyone's game because you dont have to actually try.
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I hate you :( everytime I bring it I rarely get tunneled and so when I take it off I usually get tunneled. I just wish I could have that luck
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I have 3.6k hours and i'm a red ranked survivor but i'm not "experienced", try again
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Eating a DS early is even worse than eating one late; if you do it early on, all four survivors are probably still in the game, meaning that eating a DS from one survivor means there are three other survivors doing gens. If you can't build pressure in the early game the gens fly and you lose.
I'm definitely not assuming that. I'm just not assuming that the killer is going to be systematically weaker than the survivors they're facing, which is the only way your point makes sense. Your comment was saying that survivors that can't loop a killer indefinitely are bad at looping, which is not the case, and that's what I was replying to. This should only happen if a baby killer gets matched with an experienced survivor. Bad matchmaking like that will happen, but if the matchmaking isn't lopsided and a survivor can't run the killer for five gens that of course doesn't mean the survivor is bad at looping. That's just the game working as intended.
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Oh, I actually wrote a post about this very thing elsewhere.
TLDR: the survivor will apparently be upset that I didn't tunnel or slug them, so they chase after me and try their damndest to get grabbed.
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Thing is, a lot of survivors are trained to play the first minute sweaty as ######### and then slow down because of toxic killers. You basically have to be a toxic ######### for a full minute to find out whether or not the killer is a toxic #########. There are no winners to it.
In fact, the old infinite window wasnt even discovered untill survivors needed to literally infinitely loop killers who ran Ebony Mori, because Ebony Mori didnt require a hook at the time and could be used as soon as you downed 1 person. Billy didnt have red addons, so all he got was New Moon Bouqets and Ebony Mori's. Billy players back then were considered the most toxic players because they got to use Ebony Mori every single game and get rewarded for it.
So even if Ebony Mori didnt exist, the infinite windows would have eventually been found and abused, yes. But killers abusing vanilla mechanics forces survivors to find ways to abuse mechanics in their own favor to a point where they need to abuse by default before calming down. You cannot have a chill game of survivor untill you know if the killer is chill or not.
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