lets list out all the infinite/Sudo infinite loops the Blood Lust's removal has caused.
This is me just putting down and asking the community what infinite loops they have found during the time of the Blood Lust removal:
The ones I have found are:
The auto haven open window bus(To the surprise of no one)
Window corner hook shack variant: The hook doesn't effect survivors as much as it does the killer and without BL it can be looped until the entity window blocker spawns.
Also yes the KILLER SHACK can be an infinite right now if a hook spawns on one of the corners that is on the window side if played properly by the survivor making shack even without its pallet not worth chasing through.
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Don't forget the ones exclusive to the slower killers.
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Not even remotely surprised about the god bus. Called that for a reason. Corner hook on shack is actual awful and has lost me chases.
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Saloon is basically an infinite too, so many options on the building for survivor
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I imagine the house of pain on badham and Haddonfield are literally infinites now with the right window spawn against Deathslinger and Huntress...
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All of this is bad, but it gets even worse when breakable walls come into play. I had a whole thread about that one...
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They already were, weren't they? I don't remember ever being able to keep chase long enough as a 110 killer to gain Bloodlust thanks to the LoS blockers.
Although at least Hag, Spirit and Slinger could do something about it. Poor old Huntress...
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The only infinite I've found is the survivor queue time.....
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Disturbed ward windows are just awful now, especially if RNG isn't on your side.
Haddonfield is just made even worse, not infinite but bloodlust made it bearable to an extent.
Midwich remains a terrible walking simulator but I guess even with bloodlust it's about the same.
Farm maps are just jokes now, you have to eat and hit every safe pallet around if you don't have some good power. That alone is fine until you realize every loop there is safe and usually interconnected.
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You don't even know what infinites are lmao, they don't exist anymore. Use Bamboozle, easiest fix for window loops. If you are unable to mindgame as killer you shouldn't play it. The crying about bloodlust removal is just the usual forum cringe and pathetic as always.
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For slower killers all of them, it's a shame that u need to be more skilled as a killer than u have to be as a survivor.
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Nice b8 m8
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Hence why Pseudo Infinite was used as well. Bloodlust is honestly not powerful enough to cause problems. I never understood why anyone thought it needed to go.
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Springwood has a slew of very safe pallet loops, even with blood lust an any average survivor can cannibalize the killer's time. Not that time management would matter in that situation, if a killer is getting blood lust chances are the last thing on their mind is "how long will this take?".
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Isn't it just a test to see what happens? Either way, it seems like a brilliant idea to list all the loops to help survivors even more. Genius plan.
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Part of this post is to point out why Blood Lust is need.
While another part of It is to show the devs what's still problematic and causing issues when Blood Lust isn't active.
I don't think I need to point out why having a infinite/pseudo infinite killer shack variant is bad for the game.
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Coldwind Trailer tile into long wall / killer shack windows.
2nd story window in Ironworks next to breakable wall (resets the chase)
Badham school, again
Autohaven car/pallet/car combo with any other tile around it
Suffocation Pit mid area T L T combos
off the top of my head
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To say killer shack is an infinite is just nonsense. It's not hard to mindgame the shack and it's one of the only stronger loops left in teh game these days.
Authaven fun bus is getting nerfed, have u not seen how much smaller it is on the new reworked maps?
Pretty much any infinite that you find (a proper infinite) will be removed with the map reworks, apart from maybe the badham house of pain which i do agree i think should go.
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Which is just wrong for a game like this. A survivor that's a strong looper that you haven't even hooked yet and it's near the end of the game, of course you will go somewhere. But having to *retreat* from that area as killer against anyone near the beginning or middle of the match is ridiculous and is a testament to that loop's power level.
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Idk about slinger you see if you hold the magical double w key your chances of surrving slinger increse
Now imagine during no bloodlust you are a slinger, surv gets to a hill and bl.
Or a 99ed sb..
Deathslinger is a 110% killer as well with a effective range of 18 meters there gonna get some distance past 18 meters
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Saloon is a pseudo infinite vs 110s now. Car on Elementary may be an infinite for full speed killers, DEFINITELY is an infinite for slower ones.
This is my problem as well.
In 90% of situations as a killer, amping up bloodlust past 1 meant you made a mistake. If someone is looping in the shack, let them because it just isn't time efficient and that survivor needs to leave the shack corner of the map to actually do anything to threaten you.
In 10% of scenarios, it was vital to prevent the game from degenerating into utter nonsense because an area was so strong you couldn't lose out the chase in any reasonable timeframe and it was effectively a 'safe zone.' You got a kill, or a slug, and a survivor is just looping to kill time and the difference between closing that loop taking 1 minute and 3 is actually a real difference to the outcome of the game and there is nothing you can do to stop every survivor going to that loop.
The existence of Bloodlust and the removal of vacuum are pretty critical to making survivors never actually safe, which is important to the design: if the killer is willing to pay the time cost to get to Bloodlust 3, you SHOULD go down if you refuse to do a hard LOS break, and should be massively rewarded for making that break by getting that time 'free' and resetting the killer back to square 0. And then Bloodlust 1 just 'fixes' the game in a lot of ways outside of just loops (like rewarding a killer for chain chases which generally are high skill play).
A common misconception is that among equally skilled killers, bloodlust is an unfair advantage. But in reality Bloodlust is a pretty nuanced mechanic with a lot of use cases and which disproportionately affects matches with extremely skilled survivors. The assumption that low rank/skill killers will be affected hard kinda misses the problem with nerfing Bloodlust: Until you get to like... rank 5, odds are extremely good there are multiple survivors in your game that have no idea how to loop and thus you will often never hit Bloodlust 1 in normal chase because you either get the down fast or don't get it at all as they hard break LOS on you. Like a rank 10 killer up against a Claudette running in a straight line dropping every pallet immediately upon reaching it isn't going to need bloodlust. Those survivors already just get squashed or do silly things like run in to do a hook save eating a hit like a champ, just like they saw on stream, without BT or DH.
Bloodlust existed to solve major problems created by extremely skilled survivor play oriented around wasting as much time of the killer as possible and using the math of the killer's tempo oriented gameplay against them. As a rank 1 pig main when playing killer side it isn't unplayable per-say, but the loss of rank 1 bloodlust is VERY noticeable and makes every single chase way less rewarding, and the loss of 2 and 3 makes the 2v1 endgame kinda a huge pain in the ass.
I honestly wouldn't mind if this trial resulted in a general nerf to chain windows, which are the real core cause of this issue. Certain common tiles like L+T when they spawn next to each other are way too strong. Windows grow exponentially in power the more windows are near each other, especially when there are long walls on both sides of the window, and I think Bloodlust could go away if the anti-infinite window blocking was just 'smarter' and did things like count certain windows as 'the same window' so that multiple windows still have mindgame strength but aren't essentially different windows for the purpose of a loop resource. That still would let the killer 'force' the chase over a similar length of time to bloodlust ticking up, but removes the speed aspect of Bloodlust. That would still probably require shrinking the killer hitbox down to match the survivor though for the purpose of terrain collision for certain loops still.
Pseudoinfinites are as bad as infinite infinites. An 'infinite' doesn't actually need to hold up for any length of time. If a loop can sustain a survivor by itself for over a minute, it is functionally an infinite. The problem with these locations is they tend to allow the survivor to buy a disproportionate amount of chase time without spending resources (Pallets, blocked windows, ects) and killer play is extremely tempo oriented. This isn't terrible, strong areas of the map the killer is encouraged to just let the survivor loop in to go pressure other survivors are fine, the issue is when these strong loops become too common (again, a good example is side to side L+T spawns giving survivors easy access to 2 pallets and 4 windows) and centralized in a manner that makes it not realistic to end chases outside of these loops.
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Let's not forget our good old friend Groaning Storehouse, spawning a double pallet right outside the window because the literal infinite wasn't strong enough! :D
Post edited by GoodBoyKaru on6 -
I hate the main building so much.Super fun how survivors can chain those 2 windows :D
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the q-time in dbd was everytime bad... look it now ? you find ez in 10sec a lobby, its everyday like that, as if someone flicked a switch and it would take longer from now on ... its sus
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Since people will keep saying no matter what that this and that bc bad players, name calling and such. Will start to post people that are known streamers talking on the matter so there is some perspective on regards to experience in the game. Not necessarily being good or the best player around, but having proof of experience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyEWRfPONNU
Here OhTofu discusses the matter.
Edit:
Here is another. Scott Jund. Thousands and thousands of hours, known streamer. He is pro removing bloodlust, but as OhTofu he has other caveats, like keeping bloodlust 1 for reasons he explain that are fairly similar to what people are saying here.
Post edited by Chekita on1 -
i hate how as killer thats the only macmillian map i get (that and coal tower) but as survivor it's literally exclusively pallet woods.
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I hate those windows. Needs so much thinking to run those 2.
Anyways. I didn't see this test coming, because I thought it's pretty clear that to make this game a bit less frustrating for killers is to keep Bloodlust exist. Removing BL affects on some killers a lot and some not so much. Well, definitely it doesn't really mean a thing to Nurse.
But without Bloodlust I can imagine the gameplay of non-anti-loop killers against decent/good loopers. It's like land a one hit on survivor and then change the target or catch that survivor and camp him/her out of frustration. I'm not saying this scenario happens with every killer, but eh...chasing a survivor should be rewarding, in a way or another...
You can chase one survivor for a moment and build up Bloodlust and finally catch him/her, it doesn't mean that you lost the game already, but giving up on survivor without Bloodlust just sounds annoying. Killers without anti-looping abilities gonna be in pain. I don't feel like anyone should travel around the map as a killer just because she/he didn't catch that one survivor and now killer needs to find a new a survivor, because Bloodlust didn't help the killer.
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These loops can all be countered tho even by basic m1 killers. A quick moonwalk or fake is all it takes. It's not an infinite if you could have actively done something to prevent that chase from happening/ end it quickly.
Do you really want every loop to be like those rock loops on sanctum? Loops which you don't even need to think as killer in order to down the sruviovr because they are that unsafe? I like tiles and shack because the better player always comes off better on those loops, unless the survivor just throws the pallet which means that you don't even need to worry about that loop later as killer.
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I also think TLs and majorly slept on. Unless you've outpositioned the survivor or they're just dumb, you're not gonna be able to stop them from going through the middle and doing a psuedo infinite loop, especially with 110%ers (Huntress and Deathslinger being exceptions of course). It's one of those trials I never really learned to deal with, probably because there isn't much to it for the survivors.
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Just so you know if you stick on spine chill and resilience some of the basic loops on mac millian become infinites. these are the loops kinda like a Z shape i guess, its hard to describe but pallet in the middle with a long junk/box pile either side. you vault so fast the killer cant lunge enough to catch you in time... so yeah its pretty broken i could spend the whole time at this loop until he broke the pallet, thats 115% killer btw. So either loops all need to be mega unsafe which means no killer will break pallets or just keep bloodlust in, it actually allows for gameplay
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Fun bus can be an actual infinite loop as long as you break chase every 2 vaults, which is absolutely ridiculous considering this map just got reworked.
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The fun bus just goes to show the devs have no idea at all how strong some tiles are vs others. I have seen the fun bus chain into a long wall jungle gym many many times on some maps, I consider myself an extremely good killer and I play strong killers as well but outside of Nurse I have to just break chase and leave because the tiles are just to strong together you will lose all 5 gens.
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If you hold the magic W key against a slinger you're going to get speared. You can't juke a slinger. The slinger just missed lol
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You guys forget Crane loops in AutoHeaven? Its car loops on steroid.
Its where the crane edge parts that Survivors can run pass it, but Killers have to take around it. Causing infinite.
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there are a few main building windows that are now simi infinites as well
asylum, certain variations of ormond, one of the new reworked map buildings with the gen next to a vault, T L walls can be looped as long as you outplay the killer repeatedly. im sure i missed a few but it's ridiculous.
edit: both main buildings in the swamp maps have simi infinites as well as the small boat that spawns.
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*pseudo
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They fixed this on reworked azarov
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This game is just not fun to play as a killer. So frustrating. You either play someone who instantly wins a chase or you play a killer that gets genrushed in 2 seconds. Bloodlust is necessary until they start bumping m1 killer base movement speeds.
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It's not an infinite if a window blocker spawns and prevents an infinite.
True infinites literally had no counter to them.
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What kind of stupid statement is this?
If you arent good at something, you shouldnt do it.. Holy crap what a ######### thing to believe!
Just had to comment, as this made me acually laugh and think about how sad some people`s minds are:D I do hope you try stuff irl that you arent good at tho, it gives great pleasure learning new things!
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There are a lot of strong loops for survivors. But shack? really? I actually like shack because you can mind game it, unlike many other loops where survivor can literally see you 24/7. That's why i think a lot of the loops should be changed to higher obstacles. Survivors always talk abaut mind games, but vast majority of loops have none because they can literally see you, so only thing they need to do is judge the distance how many loops they can do, in other words they have upper hand in chase mechanic. Other thing with loops are that windows shouldn't be possible to spawn perfectly in line to each other which can become near infinites even with weaker windows. Best examples there are when shack window is facing long wall jungle gym window
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Cowshed / Torment creek Long Tractor Loops are and always will be silly.
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saloon is op for me as a surv. it´s so easy to loop and there is nothing the killer can do exept leave me or chase me and lose gens
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Just get rid of the bus pallet
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The "Lane Pallets" on Groaning Storehouse and Cowshed are completely safe, impossible to catch the survivor as long as they throw the pallet.
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That's gonna be fixed with the graphical update/nerfed so no point complaining about that.
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"T and L walls are infinite loops"
LOL that's the funniest thing i've heard.
At the end of the day you've just listed a bunch of unreworked maps which will 100% be fixed and changed, no point complaining about those, apart from that one reworked building which I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Fun bus is literally being heavily nerfed in the graphical update, so ppl need to stop going on about it. It's liek someone going on about old iron works of misery.
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So basically everything that I predicted would become an infinite/psuedo-infinite became one. Disturbed Ward was already way too strong with Bloodlust and this just made it worse.
Some shacks have walls that you can see the Killer through and it gets stronger for Survivor when a hook spawns there (like the OP said). The Killer has to go around the hook, which slows them down and gives you more time to react. Good Survivors can make it unmindgameable with that hook there.
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there are semi infinites in the reworked maps too moron and my point on T L walls was that they are easier to semi infinite as long as you play well as survivor.
regardless of if they are reworked maps or not anyone who thinks disabling blood lust now before they get fixed IF they get fixed is a moron.
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