Why people complain about Ruin/Undying? Cleansing is easiest than repairing
And the 6s aura is fine in my opinion, becouse the killer has still to make a choice: go for the cleanser at the risk of losing pressure on gens.
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Just do the damn bones
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Because a lot of survivors hate doing bones despite there being 4 of them to do a total of 5 bones. I run Detectives Hunch and just that perk alone saves us from that combo and NOED.
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And with leader the teammates can really cleanse the totems. But many guys want to using the meta perks.
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"just do bones lmao"
"okay I will play with my friends to do bones better"
"what? why are you playing on an SWF? Thats unfair for the killer!!!2"
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Because, overall, it's a lie when survivors say they want a second objective, apparently?
Even still, they can try to power through it, and/or not leave the gen.
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It’s not a lie, people just want a secondary objective that isn’t more M1 holding. Seriously, what is the mechanical difference between doing gens and doing bones? There is none.
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Doing bones is easy, it takes 15s if the killer has not 4stack of Thanatophobia
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Try to counter ruin/undying on maps like Lery's, Hawkins or Midwich (without a coordinated 4 man SWF, that is). Good luck.
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I love undying especially if they sprinkle in a haunted ground because DANG that makes for an interesting game. I like a challenge, and it also let's us survivors know that two perk slots are dedicated to bones, so wiping them out wastes it! I also am a sucker for the blight and his perks, he's got some fun stuff goin on lol :)
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The same reason why killers complain about DS+Unbreakable. Going against it 8 out of 10 games is boring.
Also imo the aura just shouldn't be a thing for undying, they should add it to thrill of the hunt instead
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Because solo queue teammates are unreliable, so Ruin/Undying can win games outright sometimes if you get some decent totem spawns, especially on indoor maps. And it's unreasonable to ask that I run a map or totem perk every game, since you need perks like Kindred in solo queue, and builds are already cookie-cutter enough without a dedicated totem perk slot.
On the flip side, SWF usually beat Hex builds with ease, so they have no reason to complain.
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I think killer complain about DS+Unbreakable because whatever the killer do he cant counter the combo.
On the other hand undying+ruin you can still ignore those totem and focus the gen or you can get lucky and disable undying+ruin on the first try.
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It's strong in solo queues, but it doesn't do diddly really against a SWF.
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By the time I circle the map and cleanse the totems with Small Game in solo queue I've already got 1 or 2 teammates dead and 3-4 gens up while the killer just has Ruin + a gen information perk passively play the game for them as they follow the neon lights... So yeah, there's your answer.
This is from somebody who plays both sides and stopped using Ruin/Undying because it's just miserable to play against if you're not in a SWF.
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Please quit these silly tag lines and offer something of substance to the discussion.
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Let's be honest, holding m1 on a Generator with different skin isn't technically a new objective, it's just the same thing but fancier, like those halloween flowers.
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Actually, no. If the killer pushes someone off a gen with ruin it will regress pretty fast and that can go on and for way too long. Specially if you're using it with tinkerer.
If it was a Trapper using it, it'd be fine. But it's Oni I see using it. It's forever Freddy, Nurse, Spirit. Killers that can easily go from one point of the map to the other and down people in their way. And you don't really have to choose that much, because depending on the spawn of the totems, you'll have 4 chances.
Basically, what I've been seeing is killers that already have good pressure making use of it and the ones who doesn't don't.
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It's the original second objective! Haha
I know, I get it. It's not thrilling, but it's Dead by Daylight. They're not known for making more mini games or adding new buttons. I don't know what's expected. They have the crown, lantern, and other stuff but I don't know how much time that could buy a killer.
It's something to just expect and try to adapt for since it's going to be common. Probably a common ground killers and survivors have. Dbd gets "fixed" through perks sometimes.
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Because there’s hardly ever enough time in a game to do all the bones if the killer is decent at the game. The reason it works for node is because usually bad killers run this perk so you are able to have enough time to take the totems out. When ruin undying is on nurse or blight or billy or something, there’s not much you can do other than try and push out gens and hope your teammates can last over a minute in chase.
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I like playing against Undying/Ruin because it gives me more of a reason to go searching for the bones and cleanse them.
If the killer defends his bones, then it gives you free clearing to do the generators since you just need to hang around the lit totems and it forces him to chase you.
Giving survivors another objective is a good thing IMO.
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The vast majority of survivors HATE running bones. If me and my one sec partner don't cleanse all 5 between us by end game NOED always happens. Because of this my standard load out has Small Game and I tend to break 4 or all 5 every match unless I get into a long chase or the map sucks (game, Hawkins, and middwich because the multiple levels and small rooms)
So ruin undying doesn't affect me much unless all the randoms are running aimlessly
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Also, I always felt Ruin/Thrill was scarier because the actual notification for touching the bones and the slow down made it much easier for killers to defend them
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I didn’t say it wasn’t easy, I said it was just as unexciting as doing gens.
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It's not that ruin+undying has no effective counter. It's that most people don't want to do it.
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I never had an issue against Ruin/Undying. I never see much of a gain when trying Ruin/Undying (like you're throwing away a whole perk slot for christs sake). The only people I really see running Run/Undying are youtubers. When I see streamers running Ruin/Undying they seem to be getting the same results as me - it's a waste of a perk slot.
So yeah. Ruin/Undying is overhyped like NOED is, and the moment you see someone say it's a viable build, then you already know they don't know enough about the game to be commenting on it's balance.
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i mean i lost my ruin and undying within 25seconds... but yeah totally OP to use two perk slots to help slow gens while pressuring, honestly no point in normal regression. killer want games to last longer, its not like the perk is making them stupid powerful at loops etc. its purely to regress gens if people arent on them, but theres 4 survivors and you need 2-5 totems which take 10seconds each max, plenty of perks and items out there to help you if you want to counter it... your choice at that point but dont complain about having to use a perk to counter something, thats the whole point of perks... you know like killers using undying and ruin to counter gen speeds....
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Because it's overall luck based and isn't worth cleansing. Survivors are better off splitting up on gens and pressuring the killer that way then cleansing before doing anything, in the worst case scenario which isn't that uncommon, cleansing every totem takes around 2-3 gens worth of time, it just generally isn't worth it and it makes them partake in more of the invigorating hold M1 gameplay. I generally try to stick to pop, corrupt, but since they nerfed pop right as an insanely better combo came out it's getting harder and harder to justify running it.
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On a high mobility killer especially, the aura reading and difficulty to remove ruin is too oppressive. He can go down the person trying to do the totem, then uses his other aura perk (BBQ!) and go take the next person down (What if the gen was about 99% done). The gen resets, he go after the next person trying to do his totem after seeing the aura. What if they get the wrong totem? The high mobility killer has already hooked twice, he still has Ruin, the gens have mostly or totally reset. It is practically unwinnable already, simply because of two slowdown perks and an aura reading. The killer didn't have to do anything but watch for auras.
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It’s like Legion. Easy to play around, yet the experience is still annoying.
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Do survivors really need to bring 3 other people to help them do totems?
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People are allowed to complain. Especially when looking for totems feels like a damn chore and the killer keeps slugging/camping.
This is no different than the complaints against certain survivor load outs.
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Because cleansing totems is only viable in a SWF, or against a really, really bad killer. It doesn't matter what you bring in to help, it just wastes too much time because either a bunch of people are looking for totems where someone else already has, or it's just one person basicly throwing the game by spending longer than a generator's worth of time cleansing them and also getting chased by the killer because aura reading.
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The killer has never good pressure if 4 survivors manage to gen rush and loop correctly
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You are basically talking about Hillbilly, chill bro, it's just him. Freddy can't teleport to bones and Spirit can't see auras while she's phasing
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The game isn't built on 2 objectives.
If it's a killer with high momentum, high pressure, Ruin+Undying is overkill to them because the game has not been properly balanced for 3-5 totems+staying alive.
If you're living to a killer who has Ruin+Undying then well.....the killer isn't doing very well.
Ruin+Undying forced gen rushing (which is why I started bringing a Commodius Toolbox with BNP and Charge addons) and/or it forced to do totems to which teammates will be dying if the killer is applying insane pressure.
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If you don’t tunnel ds+ub are 2 slots wasted, and if you take the hit is 5 sec stun one time and 2 slots wasted too
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You right meg, the game is build into genrush the killer and leave after 2 minutes
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Maybe introducing a new mechanic to give a counter to high-speed killer; shall we start the trial with the exit gates already opened?
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It's broken, survivors want to be tunnelled on purpose if they are running this
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Yeah, because sarcasm motivates me to continue this conversation.
......
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I'm not sarcastic, I honestly think survivor is too hard, and as a survivor main I find insanely hard to repair gens. I want to spawn behind the exit gates to leave quickly
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Bring maps or perks
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Ruin/undying is simy free braindead value, coming from a killer main. If you cleanse a totem as a survivor you waste 12-14 seconds (I don't remember the actual time, it's between those two). So if you cleanse every single totem you've successfully wasted 60-70 seconds doing bones. So only by cleansing you've wasted almost an entire gen just to remove 2 perks from the killer, without adding thrill of the hunt, the unhooks/heals/interactions with the killers power (curing sickness, disarming traps, destroying portals)/being chased. Other slowdowns like corrupt and sloppy,ect. All of these combined make the game last forever and gives the killer value they don't deserve at all.
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Ds unbreakable bt deadhard is silly braindead value coming from a rank 1 survivor. Dead hard is E to extend loops and ds unbreakable allows you to do gens in the killers face and if they come to chase you off just jump into a locker. Did i also mention these are actually given for free deadhard is whenever your not exhausted ds just requires being hooked and unbreakable being downed. Survivors explain when a killer ignores the meta perks like pyramid head and freddy so the perks just get free value. Undying ruin can get cleansed in the first 30 seconds of a match and theres so many ways to counter totems detective hunch and maps being two. Also even with undying ruin the killer has to apply preasure i cant just slap it on clown because hes slow survivors will just split up on gens and repair through it. Not to mention there being 4 survivors so they all 4 can just run it.
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The technique that you just used is called "whataboutism", which is an actual thing. It means that you give examples in order to minimize or completely erase the damage of something else. Because one perk combo is bad, it doesn't mean that the other isn't.
Ruin/undying is basically free value. It can be cleansed in the first 30 secs of a match, but you did win those 30 secs didn't yoi? If they are unlucky and they cleanse ruin then they have to find another totem and cleanse it, with the hope of it being undying. Then, repeat till undying is cleansed or all totems are cleansed. One or more survivors are busy searching for totems, so that's -1/2 survivors that are doing gens. Meaning that the simple existence of this perk combination gains pressure and tons of time.
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Ah yes saving 30 seconds for losing 2 perks for the whole game is the best tradeoff ever. When something like corrupt saves that for 1 perk...
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Also im gonna say it again because its the number one rule of survivor: split up. Even if the killer has undying ruin you can just plow through it without cleansing because the killer can only be in one place at a time me and my friends literally did all the gens through ruin undying because of just splitting up and the killer couldnt apply pressure to 4 areas at once
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Indeed corrupt saves a lot of time, but has a timer. Once it's done, you immediately lose one perk. Unlike that, ruin/undying is based on chance for the survivor side. Can last 30 secs, or can last the entire match. With corrupt, survivors can wait, with ruin/undying they'll have to be actively look for totems or only commit on gens. And if they get found, ruin will be activated and will immediately lose gen progress.
It's a lose-lose situation.
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its a waste of a perk, its still RNG and can be destroyed within 25 sec of the match along with Ruin
I never uses it, nor any stuff that has RNG In it
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That my friend is a different story. Swf≠solo q gameplay. It's actually the opposite. Because something is good on swf it doesn't mean it's balanced. This game is supposed to be played without any sorts of communication, so balancing should focus around solo q and not swf.
And what you described is called genrush. And there are a lot of factors that can contribute to genrushing, for example your ability to communicate with your teammates, the killers knowledge of the game, perks, items, killer's perks/add-ons, what killer they play, their rank vs your rank (for example a rank 8 killer can't compete with a rank 1 swf).
See what I mean?
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