To those who complain about survivor queue times
- Its not a problem with the game its a problem with the community. There are too many survivors queuing compared to killers. So telling BHVR to "fix the queue times" it useless.
- You want to know why everyone plays survivor compared to killer? Killer is 1000x more stressful and 1000x less fun compared to survivor games. Especially compared to survivor SWF games.
- If you don't like long queues go help the problem by playing killer. Or keep playing survivor and t bag every killer at the exit gates. Soon they will swap to survivor too and your queues will keep getting longer.
Survivors wonder why their queues are so long when the match before hand they 4 man escape against a clown with no add ons while using the exact build of Dead hard, DS, Unbreakable, and borrowed time. And rub every second chance in his face, t bagging and pointing along the way.
TLDR. Killer is unfun and stressful so no one plays it. So there are too many survivors for too few killers.
Comments
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I used to main killer. I've been playing a lot more survivor lately though as it is indeed much more relaxing xD
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I main survivor only because it's the only way I can play a game with my girl without it being the lackluster 1v1 of KYF.
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That's funny, it's the other way around for me. I got tired of camping, tunneling killers so I switched to killer and I'm way more relaxed lol
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I don't know about everyone other region, but I know for the Australian and New Zealand servers, queue times are instant for survivor in the morning and take about 10-15 minutes at night. And vice versa for killer.
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Yeah. Survivors kinda dug their own graves with this one.
The bloodlust test was a shot in the foot for example: Turns out that killers don't enjoy the game devolving into a minute and a half chase around a loop once you are dead to rights gotten and your not trying to actually escape the chase, and a 45 time limit to how long you can loop a killer without dropping a chase is sorta necessary for the experience to not be a nightmare.
Survivors defend this by saying killers just get a 'free' speedboost to win the chase with no skill but... looping and counter looping at safe loops isn't a skill based interaction at all. The survivor without Bloodlust is just getting to win the chase (or draw it out to an unreasonable timeframe) with no skill. It cuts both ways, one of the two sides 'deserves' to win after investing a certain amount of time, and skill plays very little into it. So having a universal chase time limit is just a sensible thing to do: If the killer can afford to invest a MINUTE THIRTY SECOND MINIMUM to get two hits on a healthy survivor, it probably means that the killer is in such a superior position that its totally fine to say 'Survivor, make a play or lose.' But framing it as 'the killer isn't skilled enough to win that loop' means that... well... endgame devolves into nonsense that killers don't want to deal with, so they LEAVE.
It has nothing to do with the killer needing Bloodthirst to win games. The killer in theory already won the game, its a question of if your goin to be a sweaty jerk and stall the game for 2 minutes when its really over and you don't have a shot. If bloodlust is majorly affecting the midgame, it means either the killer is throwing and you should be good enough to climb out of ranks where Bloodlust is a major mid game mechanic, or your not a good survivor because your constantly in situations where you can't pip despite the killer being bad at time management.
So, whoopsie poopsie, a bunch of killers just noped out of DBD for a while because the mere IDEA of the test was a bad idea, as anyone who has ever had to be certified to do research would know: Because the burden of the experiment was placed on the backs of the people who wouldn't benefit from the experiment and caused 'harm' to them, the research was exploitative. In the grand scheme it wasn't a very damaging exploitation, but it does fit the definition of exploiting human subjects, and a lot of people subconsciously got that and realized they didn't want to be treated like lab rats in experiments that discount their needs and enjoyment of the game so they bounced.
Balancing the game around every petty gripe of survivors that the killer has a morsel of QOL mechanics to prevent survivors from bullying them endlessly is how we got the situation in 2017.
And to be clear the QOL situation of killers is deliberately kept in a bad spot to allow survivors to harass them because that is part of what sells this game: Case in point the killer's 'concession' mechanic is deliberately weak to give survivors the power to teabag at the gate. It would have been trivial to make the end game collapse 'surrender' just give survivors the emblem progress of healing each other and surviving and instantly ending the game, but there is a big dramatic countdown that forces the killer to continue participating in their own loss. It just sucks, and survivors are very aware its frustrating and enjoy taunting the killer over it rather than being class acts and just ending the game.
Its little things like that, little things where its sorta clear the devs are trying to almost 'edge' the killer, pushing the role to the brink of being a punching bag without making anyone go over the edge, that causes massive Q times. There is a massive economic incentive for BHVR to make the 'many' role of survivor feel powerful, and to encourage toxic gameplay loops to keep the survivors coming back buying tons of cosmetics and bringing more friends into the game. And it felt like we were pulling out of that situation (Survivor finally got remotely challenging again so I started playing it again, its nice to sometimes lose as a solo at red ranks, and killer didn't feel like BHVR actively hated my guts) but it feels like we are going right back into prime 'Ochido' mode where the survivor community just wants people to bully again and doesn't want an actual, you know, GAME.
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We are right back to the famous moment, when Matthieu recommended killers to switch to survivor or play something else.
Well surprise! Killers did exactly that!
The Stream, where they explained, that they don´t see a problem with OoO, because their stats show, that it´s users don´t survive particuarly often, also didn´t help. Because it´s not about the survival rate of that perk. It´s about how it feels playing against it. Especially against SWF. Sure, a killer can win this. But a what cost? It´s a frustrating match, that sucks out all enjoyment and pleasure of playing a GAME.
The devs constantly balance around the gameplay experience of new survivors. Ruin was nerfed hard, because it was to frustrating for new survivors. They just looked at the stats, saw that Ruin was used to much and removed it. Without ever considering WHY so many killers felt the need to use this perk. Now, with it gone, the problem of gen speed became more obvious, as killers got gen rushed left and right. But instead of reversing the Ruin changes or doing something about the gen speeds, they gave us Undying in the hope, that it would force survivors to finally do their secondary objective: Totems. So far it works as intented. But survivors already complain about this "unfair and OP combo". So now it´s only a matter of time, before the devs will do something to appease the masses of survivors that can´t stand doing anything else than gens.
But lets be honest, the Undying + Ruin Combo didn´t really slow the gen speed down. At least not, where it matters. Because, Ruin isn´t really effective against SWF or people that are glued to the gens. So it´s only a psychological effect, and who knows how long it takes, before it wears off and survivors just ignore it like before. When this happens, even more killers will leave.
A few months ago, there was a tournament with a 15.000€ prizepool. Not a official tournament, but one where supposedly the best played against the best. That tournament made it painfully obvious, how strong the survivor role is. When survivors roflstomped the best killers.
Devs could and should hold regular matches with nice prices in order to draw conclusions about the balance. Treat it like a e-sports game. While also introduce a casual mode, which is more forgiving for both sides. That way, they could make the people happy, that just want a relaxing match as well as the people that want a more competitive gamemode.
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SoloQ <<<<<<< Killer < 4 SWF in terms of fun. Killers in this forum are just crybabies that can't stand some challenge.
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I agree
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Gosh that Text, calm down cutie. Just don't take a game to serious, If you can't then sry but get gud.
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Yep. Can confirm. Survivor queues in Australia are awful in the evening. So I’ll switch to killer and be reminded of why I hate playing killer in the evening.
BHVR can’t fix the queue problem. It’s a community problem and survivor “pissing contest” problem.
Post edited by TheClownIsKing on5 -
Surv main here in purple-red ranks. 5-10 secs to start a game. Sorry, your theory is not good
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It also depends on the region tbh. Where I live, survivor queue times are instant in the morning/afternoon and at night killer queues are the insta ones.
I can see where u r going that killer is stressful, but if u play a killer u like with a reliable build that u also like it should be fine. I play both roles almost equally (I do play survivor a little bit more, because I don’t have yet all the builds I want for killer) and find both relaxing.
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I actually find killer significantly more relaxing than survivor, especially solo. Though it might just be because in a swf I get anxious about ruining friendships lol
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Same in europe at least for me. I think more ppl who like to play with friends have work or other stuff to do and at evening more free time.
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What about a couple months ago when the survivor queues were near instant and the killer queues were 3+ minutes? Has the balance significantly changed since then?
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I’d like to add that it’s not just simply a lack of killers during peak periods (although that is indeed a factor).
It’s also that 4 man and 3 man teams clog the queues as well. I’m not saying they’re bad. Just that when you have solos and 2 man teams waiting for free spots in the queues, they’re inevitably going to be waiting a long time.
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I'll play something else then.
Enjoy your queue.
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>1.Its not a problem with the game its a problem with the community. There are too many survivors queuing compared to killers. So telling BHVR to "fix the queue times" it useless.
Yes it is a problem with game, each match need five players, 4 survivors and 1 killer, so there's always a good chance of there being more survivors than killers. the biggest problem is the matchmaking system and rank distribution of survivors vs the rank distribution of killers, there are many red rank survivors and few red rank killers due to how easy it is to rank up as survivors vs how perfect you have to be as killer. Another issue is SWF matchmaking, usually SWF will have different ranks and the game just eventually goes [muh bad word] it and match them with the first killer they can find (the dev tried an MMR system but it failed, i have heard no news about it since then).
>2.You want to know why everyone plays survivor compared to killer? Killer is 1000x more stressful and 1000x less fun compared to survivor games. Especially compared to survivor SWF games.
that's an issue with the game.
>3.If you don't like long queues go help the problem by playing killer. Or keep playing survivor and t bag every killer at the exit gates. Soon they will swap to survivor too and your queues will keep getting longer.
Toxicity while more common in survivors is still present with killers.
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That is a bunch of malarkey.
Killers win every game because it is now too easy.
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Really? Shouldn't killers have long queues then?
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Yeah it's those darn entitled survivors' faults! As a killer main I am way too oppressed and stressed while playing this game, so I will also come to the forums and make a generalized insult to over half the playerbase because they literally all run ds and unbreakable and t-bag everyone, right? That's why the queues are so bad after all!
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More people queuing with friends?
Killer is definitely the role to play if you want to win consistently.
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I think it is also caused by the tome. There are more survivor challenges than there are killer. I also go through my killer challenges much faster since I can decide my entire role for that match. When I do surtvivor challenges I either have to compete against 3 people or get someone to work with me. So not only do I have more surivor challenges they tend to take longer causing me to queue up more often.
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It does have weight tbh
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Thank you for your contribution Mr President-Elect
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Digging out other comments, but I'm the one taking this to serious...
Sure, whatever you say buddy.
Now excuse me, I've to play a round of civilization. :)
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Bye so you next week ;)
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Huh?
bloodlust was put into the game for infinites. That existed 3-4 years ago. There are zero infinites in this game. YouTube what an actual infinite looked like. Bloodlust is not needed in 2020-2021
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That's not the same, I know the game good enough to see that the game goes a horrible way with all this survivor nerfs because survivor Play sometimes too well and... IF a Killer lose it's against "OP perks, Swf"....
Just wanted to make sure the game will not die because of all this map and survivor nerfs.
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Good luck with that.
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Semi infinites still exist tho. I mean, I looped killers for ages during the bloodlust free weekend. So it's not about the infinites, but more about the differences in hitboxes. Make killers hitbox the same as survivors and you can remove bloodlust.
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This right here is 100% facts.
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Don't forget the "Fun Bus" (Open window bus) was a true infinite during the no bloodlust weekend.
Not even counting the house of pain on haddon field/Springwood or any of the mariad of pseudo/semi infinites on most maps.
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I used to play about 50/50 survivor/killer but the open hostility/toxic/trolling of survivors takes away that fun for me.
I don't bother being toxic as a survivor as I don't enjoy that behavior as a killer, but so many people thrive on being toxic in this game I have too stressful of day with life/job/family. I wan't to relax when I play an online game. Some online games that are multiple are 100x less toxic then this one. I don't know what makes this one of the most toxic online games I've ever seen.
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Did I say anywhere that Bloodlust WASN'T implemented to combat psudo infinites and infinites?
Well, in reality Bloodlust was implemented in response to the killer gameplay getting so bad that in 2017 killers were quitting en-mass, but part of it was those infinites.
However, there is a concept in game design called Emergent Behavior, and Bloodlust is a fantastic example of how a mechanic takes on new meaning once its in the game. Bloodlust is SUPER needed in 2020-2021 because despite its main reason for existing in the first place being gone (save for, you know, a lot of pseudo infinites still existing, but BHVR is getting better at that) it solves a major problem of DBD, mainly that the killer SHOULD be assumed to EVENTUALLY win a chase. Perfect looping play should not work indefinitely vs even a weak killer because what that means for the game is bad.
Its sorta like how in a fighting game you shouldn't be able to perfectly block or parry forever even vs a bad player. It makes the game really terrible to play when a single defensive option is overtuned. Specifically with looping, being looped a long time is frustrating, doesn't actually display that much survivor skill, and doesn't really have a 'solution' end game save for... giving up and letting the survivor win. Its the same problem as old hatches where the game can't continue until the experience gets so awful one side gives up.
Ergo, Bloodlust is an important quality of life feature. Again, it SHOULDN'T be affecting most of your games most of the time, but its a good 'emergency measure' to force the game to end by saying to the survivor "Ok we got it you can loop a long time to waste the killer's energy but that clearly isn't enough at this point to ensure you live. What else can you do?" and forcing the game to end if the survivor doesn't know how to do things like cleanly end chases.
Imagine what it would mean for the game if a really good survivor could loop for longer than 2+ minutes without spending any resources. That is just... bad. And its a big reason a lot of killers left during the test. Input leniency isn't needed in fighting games either, but its a critical QoL feature to ensure the game doesn't get stupid and physically unpleasant to play. Bloodlust is a similar feature, it exists for playability's sake, not for balance's sake.
The main purpose has BECOME to prevent an unpleasant unnecessary game state that doesn't serve to make the game better because the game is essentially already over at that point. Which is why removing it was a dumb idea that could only blow up in BHVR's face. Again, it isn't like Bloodlust was winning a ton of people games they should have lost: if your bloodlusting down every chase to force it you should lose unless survivors are so bad that your basically guarenteed a win. So the 'harm' of the mechanic is minor to non-existent, while its benefit is huge in terms of keeping the killer side in a playable state.
Ergo, very much an essential mechanic, I literally use Bloodlust as an example of a well designed anti-stalemate mechanic when talking about game design because its... kinda perfect at it? It feels good to know you can use it when you use it well, but it feels bad using it when you shouldn't, it helps smooth over other areas of the game and prevent unintended consequences of level design (ironically its intended purpose is now a side feature but still an important and necessary one), and it 'hooks into' the survivor emotional experience well by making longer and longer chases more stressful, encouraging survivors to do whatever they can to get out of chases or making them more likely to make mistakes.
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your definition of fun is probably being part of a toxic SWF .
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Where were these threads when killer queues were 5+mins no matter region or time?
There hasn't been 1 single real nerf to killers since billy, they made the game easier for killers each patch. First with all the map reworks where yeah they added breakable walls that takes 2,5secs to break at the cost of 2 pallets. They added breakable walls to badham making those godpallets mindgamable and way weaker, they made pallets way unsafer than ever. They made yamaoka pallets with the same value of hawkins ones with the difference that hawkins has 20+ pallets while yamaoka 8+
Complaining about balance right now clearly shows how some players idea of balance is 4k or nothing so if those players are leaving just because they can't get what they want fair enought, they'll find another game where to complain because i doubt they'll ever find a game they truly like
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Plus they added undying that wheter you like it or not is the killer's equivalent of ds+ub.
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Oh it's not right because the killer can use whatever he wants since he's the power role and has to be scary and all this fancy stuff.
People that use undying and ruin are on the same level of those that use ds+ub using perks that play the game for you.
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The community isn't some amorphous hive mind of the same 4 players teabagging you at every Decisive Strike, pallet loop and exit gate.
Like I completely agree with you but you're exacerbating the problem by adding all this in. It's definitely a large portion of players who do that who are causing killers to quit for the day or swap to survivor, but it feels disingenuous to act like all survivors do this. I know I certainly don't and I look down on any survivors in game who do that.
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It is a generalisation from both sides. All survivor are toxic teabagger and all killer are camping/tunneling. Both sides always run ds+ub or ruin+undying.
The thing is extremes always stay longer in our memory than normals.
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I don't care they can keep whatever they want and players can use whichever perk combinations they want, but acting like killers are are some kind of martyr or playing the victim card whining about imaginary survivor sided devs when they're doing everything each patch to make killer's game easier and giving strong perks like undying just shows how selectively blind some players can be.
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Nurse, Spirit, Slinger, Pyramid Head: Exist
Survivors: Nerf please
You ask me sounds like survivor's can't stand a challenge from killer's that force survivor's to play differently, but when they actually get nerfed and disappear y'all wonder what happened to the killer community and their player's for example Nurse and Billy main's are ancient relics of the past now
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Speaking for myself, yeah I play survivor when I want easier more relaxing games.
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Nurse third most played killer at red ranks
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Not in my region! In my region it's mostly Spirit, Slinger, Freddy, Trapper and Doctor. I haven't seen Nurse in almost a month and a half.
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Personal experience can't be used to define the game's status. Devs gave us very clear stats that show that nurse is the third most played killer and that's not even debatable
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Indeed, playing killer today is way easier than it has ever been. If you disagree i'd like to know any patch where playing killer was easier than now
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It's so weird how the community(and I suppose the general population if we wanna pull it into real life for a moment) is influenced by such a small minority of players.
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