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Huntress is worse than Deathslinger in design, change my mind.
Deathslinger is hated in design because it's impossible to dodge his gun at a range that isn't his max, with the addition of him pulling his gun up and down repeatedly to zone you and gain easy distance for an M1.
Yet, isn't Huntress the exact same, but even worse?
All she has to do is pull her hatchet out and it forces the survivor to dodge to the side and if she keeps it out without immediately firing, she easily gains distance as the survivor is forced to weave side to side, not moving forward a lot at all and in a few seconds., she's easily so close to the point that she can simply fire without missing or can just M1 you, and she repeats this all again.
Huntress is even worse because unlike with deaths linger, where a dropped pallet grants a form of safety, Huntress can just fire over loops with small obstacles (which aren't entirely rare) and do the technique above for a free hit, unless the loops is high enough for her to shoot over, there isn't anything you can do besides pray that she misses.
It's the same poor design as with Deathslinger, you don't dodge the Huntress, she simply misses when it comes to face to face hatchets.
Thoughts?
Comments
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Nope.
Huntress has to ready her hatchet first and get it to max charge (if the hatchet isn't max charge then it makes it easier to dodge).This already gives the survivor quite a bit of time to react.
Also,she can't do it the whole time because she's losing distance while holding her hatchet deathslinger however even gains distance on you because he doesn't need to hold his gun all the time in order to shoot you.
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huntress has a 45 meter lullaby radius and a 20 meter TR she isn't going to get a surprise hit with a hatchet very often. it also takes time to wind up the hatchet before you can throw it and it takes more time to charge it so it is faster otherwise her hatchets can be dodged a mid range and when she is doing this you are slowed. At pallets it more of a 50/50 on getting hit because if she pulls out a hatchet she gets slowed hard enough that the survivor can make another loop.
due to her huge lullaby radius if a huntress is patrolling you can hide and avoid her a lot easier than other killers which is a pretty big downside against good survivors. Maps are also one of her biggest weaknesses as indoor maps make it incredibly difficult to end chases quickly and after almost every chase you have to reload at a locker which wastes some of your time.
Now tell me how she is a badly designed killer like deathslinger when she has so many downsides you have to deal with when playing her. Also what you described in your first paragraph is called zoning and plenty of other killers can do it too.
Post edited by AChaoticKiller on6 -
Reasons I find him more annoying
- Baiting your dodge with his "quickscopes"
- Super tiny terror radius especially with M&A
- Laughing at you every time you get shoot
- A lot of people tunnel and proxy camp with him (before he was added a lot of people made it with huntress)
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Except she holds it and your forced to dodge side to side repeatedly in an attempt to dodge, so you're not getting any distance whatsoever. If you walk forward straight instead, she gets a free hit.
No matter what, if there isn't any nearby cover or loops with high cover, the Huntress just has to hold her hatchet, gain distance and gets a free hit. It's not as bad as Deathslinger's instant scope on you, but at least he doesn't negate pallets entirely.
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The only real issue with Huntress's fridges - sorry, sorry, I mean "hatchets" is that they hit you from nearly a metre away from your body model. As Jeff.
Other than that, playing against a Huntress is pretty fair. She doesn't instantly pull out a hatchet and fling at max speed, she has a map-wide audio cue when a hatchet is fully charged, she doesn't have random stealth potential, and that basically means you can actually play tiles. And she really doesn't gain any distance on you if you're juking properly.
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you don't have many hours do you? pallets are a 50/50 with her, deathslinger can negate pallets way better than huntress and at a lot of them he can even shoot you at the dropped pallet and still hit you.
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If you aren't nearby any covers or loops you are dead no matter what killer you face anyway.
Pallets with huntress are just 50/50.She either throws a hatchet or she M1s you
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My hours have nothing to do with this conversation.
Deathslinger can only ''negate pallets'' when the loop is so short to the point where any basic killer can just walk around and hit you. Huntress can hit you over the pallet and loop if it's short enough, deathslinger cannot.
The core argument is still that Huntress is just like deathslinger, hold your weapon and get free distance into a hit.
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Except with a killer, like Myers (for example), you can still run forward and gain distance to a loop or a pallet if it isn't a total deadzone.
Even if it isn't a dead zone, unless there isn't an immediate safe loop/structure in the next 3-4 seconds, she will do the technique I described and get a free hit.
It's the same issue as Deathslinger has, but for some reason, Huntress goes under the radar, probably because no streamer/youtuber has yet to complain about it or even mention it.
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Deathslinger can get you on a lot of the common low wall loops you'll find on mcmillan or autohaven
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That's if the pallet isn't dropped. If it is dropped, then unless the loop is incredibly short, he doesn't have enough time to pull you around with his chain for the hit.
If the loop is so short where he can pull you around, then it's just a very unsafe loop and he's better off just going for the M1.
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I see what you're getting at, but it's a hard disagree from me, my dude.
Huntress is required to charge her hatchets for 2.75 seconds while moving at 78% speed (iirc) in order to throw her hatchets at the same speed as Deathslinger's chain. If she throws her hatchet early, which still requires a second of charging at reduced speed, it moves slowly and can be dodged by survivors. If she goes for the fully charged hatchet, though, survivors have a chance to get to cover. Deathslinger doesn't need to charge his gun in the same way. He can just quickscope you in a fraction of a second while hardly dropping below 110% movement speed. Huntress also has a short cooldown when putting away a hatchet before she can M1. Meanwhile, Deathslinger can spam ADS and M1 immediately after his gun goes down. The combination of being able to use his ranged attack while gaining distance on the survivor and being able to M1 rapidly after faking a ranged attack allows him to zone, i.e. spamming ADS to put the survivor in an old PH-esque lose/lose situation. If the survivor dodges, Deathslinger rapidly gains distance and can walk up for the M1. If the survivor doesn't dodge, the Deathslinger is able to easily land a ranged attack. Huntress's lack of zoning ability is the biggest difference between the two of them imo, since that's my biggest complaint with Deathslinger.
Huntress is one of the least stealthy killers in the game because of her 40m lullaby. Stealth is therefore a viable counter to Huntress. Deathslinger is extremely stealthy with a 24m base TR and unique, quiet TR audio. Especially given that Deathslingers almost always run Monitor, stealth is not a viable counter to Deathslinger (assuming no Spine Chill, Premonition, etc.).
Huntress has a lot of audio cues that Deathslinger does not. She makes sounds when raising a hatchet, fully charging a hatchet, throwing a hatchet, and putting away a hatchet. Deathslinger has an audio cue while firing and while holding ADS only, but if he quick scopes you pretty much only hear the bang. This isn't busted on its own, but in the context of his already busted 1v1 it's just another straw on the broken camel's back.
Huntress cannot reload her hatchets without stopping at a locker, so if you dodge a few hatchets she will likely be forced to drop chase. This is not the case with Deathslinger, who can reload on the fly.
Deathslinger can shoot through tiny gaps in objects, like through the walls of the killer shack, which means he can hit survivors in spots that would be entirely safe from Huntress. There are also a number of loops that are very difficult for her to throw over, but that are pretty easy for Deathslinger to shoot over.
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Huntress with iri heads is worse, other than that, I don't feel that way.
Her hatchets are more BS than gunslinger shots though imo, they have a hitbox the size of an SUV and will curve mid air to hit you.
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You actually can,even if the pallet is dropped.You just need to get a good angle
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no he hits you at long loops, fake one direction go another then shoot them before they get to the pallet. he also can get you before you even make it to the loop and if he is too close a good DS will almost always hit you huntress isn't like that. i mentioned hours because players with experience in this game already know this.
huntress doesn't do that she does 50/50's at pallets and at a small number of them she can throw over the loop but deathslinger can also do that and is even better since he has instant ADS.
the only thing BS on huntress is her IR heads which will definitely get changed when her addon rework comes around, in all other aspects she is a fair and balanced killer.
edit: also if DS runs the chain duration addon he can pretty much get you from a dropped pallet at nearly all short to medium loops hell even some long ones.
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Huntress has to take time to wind up her hatchets, which gives the survivors time to do many things to dodge it. Deathslinger has absolutley no charge time and can instantly shoot a survivor, giving them little to no time to react.
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You're not "forced to dodge from side to side repeatedly" because if you dodge less and keep moving forward while she's got her hatchet out she loses a lot of distance on you. And yes, when she has it fully charged it is as fast as slinger's projectile, but Huntress has her arm held high and makes a grunt noise when aiming the hatchet, which are 2 massive signs saying " I am going to throw this hatchet so get ready", giving survivors a clear indication of her power. Deathslinger has literally nothing to prepare a survivor to make a move. He walks forward at 110 speed with his gun lowered, and will shoot you literally before you can react to any change in animation or sound. That's what makes it feel so cheap and BS.
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Reasons why your wrong:
1. Regarding to your first comment, you can dodge his shots at a close range that isn't his maximum the same way you would any other killer with a ranger projectile
2. What you list makes huntress poor in design, like being able to hit someone with a hatchet after they drop a pallet, that just makes her stronger than the deathslinger and forces survivors to be more aware of the actions and adapt to the killer
3. Multiple killers other than those two can use the zoning tactic with their power ((demo,pyramid head,clown,bubba,and Billy so it's not just exclusive to them))
4. It's just a really bad take because everyone knows huntress is a pretty good killer with a higher skill cap and someone who takes time and patience to learn while deathslinger is slow moving,has horrid teachables, and takes someone who knows how to play killer well to win matches do to his limited kid and being add on and perk reliant
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I think there have been plenty of good points raised as to why Huntress is NOT actually a poorly-designed character, but there's one thing I'd like to make sure we definitely cover here: the idea that Huntress gains distance in chase when she has a hatchet out.
...Because she doesn't. Huntress immediately slows down to 77% speed when holding a hatchet and maintains this speed until she either throws it (with a base 2 second cooldown afterwards) or entirely puts it away and pulls her axe back out. It also takes her a little over a second to actually throw her hatchets, or over 3 seconds if she wants to fully charge one. That's enough time for a decent player to analyze what she's doing and predict/react accordingly (Huntress's power is actually on the slower side as far as main power "charge times" go).
Deathslinger can gain distance because he can spam his ADS button. His movement penalty is only in effect while he's aiming (he slows to 75% speed). Considering the ADS animation only takes 0.15 seconds and has no cooldown if he doesn't fire... this penalty is effectively moot on snap-shots or aim-spamming. Kind of a side note, but this ability also makes 'Slinger one of the best killers at baiting out Dead Hard.
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The problem with 'Slinger is that the survivors have no effective cues to react to against him; he can aim and fire with little-to-no warning and the spear is effectively unable to be dodged at close range (most humans just don't have that kind of reaction time). Because of this, survivors have to consider taking evasive action every time he raises his gun in case he does fire.
Huntress on the other hand probably has more cues in her kit than pretty much any killer who isn't Oni or Demogorgon. She still creates an element of prediction (on both sides), but generates enough information for the survivors to work with to generally feel like a fair and fun character to most people. Well, besides her derpy hatchet hitboxes (and Iridescent Head) of course.
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Agree!
Also one thing I wanted to mention, Huntress does have 45 meter Lullaby radius and 20 meter Terror radius, so M&A is really decent on her, because people don't expect you to be so close to them.
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Huntress has alot of places where you just want to stop chase due to her slow movement speed and heavy slowdown if she raises a hatchet. House of pain is probaply the best of example of these structures.
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As this guy explained, huntress has a lot of counterplay. She's forced to reload in lockers, she has a lullaby which makes her impossible to be stealthy and has to hold her hatchet so it can travel both faster and further.
Deathslinger's design is one of my favorites and he is pretty counterable by both pallets and genrush.
So unlike what you said, imo both killers are really well thought and designed.
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Huntress' hatchets have a spherical hitbox, Deathslinger's spear is very much a hitDOT. So, yeah, Anna's playing extreme dodgeball with you.
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I always kinda thought this, even though i think deathslinger is more oppressive huntress does have the same problem where up close there's not a lot survivors can do. All i can say is people who think a huntress is forced to charge a hatchet in order to hit someone has never gone against a good huntress who when point blank aims at the butt of the survivor and immediately releases the hatchet and since the butt of the survivor hitbox barely changes when they change direction there's almost nothing you can do. Not to mention she is almost immediately able to m1 or throw another hatchet after hitting a survivor with a hatchet, even faster with addons, and almost guarantee a second hit immediately. It's pretty much the same thing as a deathslinger with save the best except she already has it built into her kit, and if there isn't say a vault anywhere near you you're pretty much instantly dead. Mean sure you can try to "dodge" That refrigerator of a hatchet but if they aim at the butt and you haven't found a place to hide behind by the time she charges the hatchet she's gonna just about always hit you. They both definitely share a flaw and it's that they're ranged killers and that they just don't work in a game like dead by daylight, especially with the way devs design maps.
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That's what I am getting at. A good Huntress will always hit you unless there is an immediate safe loop or structure nearby. It's the same problem where in certain situations, there isn't anything the survivor can do besides pray the Huntress misses.
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It's just about cues. Her lullaby radius cannot be altered, you know when she's around. There's an audio cue when she begins a hatchet wind up, and another when it's fully charged.
Deathslinger has a 24m TR, which honestly is almost always reduced to 16m. There's an audio cue for him ADS but it's only audible when you're close enough to get melee'd, so it's not helpful. And since he can fire immediately you don't know he's about to shoot, there's just the gunfire noise after he does.
Sure, there are a lot of hatchet hits that seem unfair. But overall playing against Huntress is way more fun than against Deathslinger because you're given a lot more information and feel like you can do something about it. Versing Slinger is a lot like versing Spirit to me, what I do as survivor doesn't really matter I just have to hope they mess up a lot.
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Melee hatchets are straight up busted because she can take action too quickly and isn't slowed enough after throwing imo. The hitboxes are crazy generous but at least also sometimes work against her. I'm also baffled iri head, infantry belt, and exhaustion hatchets still exist and haven't been nerfed while they wait to do the addon pass.
But at least she can't instantly quick scope you like Deathslinger can. That alone makes him awful to play against.
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Huntress needs time to charge her hatchet and in a loop, you can break line of sight (LOS). There are some situations where you have to juke rather than continuing the loop. But depending on the distance, that can change your odds greatly because of the time she spends charging her hatchets. The Deathslinger however ALWAYS enforces breaking LOS otherwise it's a free hit. You can gain distance when the Huntress is charging and begin to juke when she's at the throwing threshold. Deathslinger only makes you lose distance since you have to juke immediately and he has little to no penalty of aiming quickly.
On pallets, Huntress has the advantage since she can down on every pallet if a survivor is going over it. Deathslinger can only down over pallets on certain loops. Both get free hits if they play well enough over pallets but Deathslinger can get the first hit better than Huntress because of his LOS advantage.
Windows are essentially the same for both, pretty guaranteed hits and downs when in chase. Both can get some wacky angles for different reasons. For Huntress it's her hitboxes and for the Deathslinger its the hook aspect into closing the distance.
Huntress hitboxes are ridiculously big so a lot of wacky hits especially with ping involved. She definitely makes a lot of loops more unsafe. Deathslinger hitboxes are much smaller so they can shoot through A LOT of holes in walls on loops and a good Deathslinger will make most loops unsafe in terms of first hit potential. Both will break pallets on loops they can't do much on, otherwise, each have their own strengths on downing potential depending on the loop.
I don't think it's much of a competition in terms of stealth. Deathslinger has the advantage. Huntress can run stealth but most players will be on guard at the LEAST when they hear the lullaby.
I think what makes him far more annoying than Huntress is his first hit potential and the fact that he doesn't have to charge his shot for max speed like huntress. And in his current state, I find him to be a weaker killer that is unfun to go against.
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Try the other way around
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One more thing I forgot to mention about them when it comes to their melee distance.
Huntress will almost always use her hatchet in melee range for the STBFL aspect unless it's not advantageous. Although it doesn't happen a lot against a good Huntress, you do still have the opportunity to dodge. This can give you some more time. If she melees first then you get a lot more distance which will make it harder for her to hatchet you.
Deathslinger will always melee first then after that if you're not breaking LOS then it's almost always a free shot.
That being said, out in the open and not near loops, there isn't much you can do against either. Huntress will down you slightly faster. (But what are you doing out in the open and not near loops anyways).
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A good "any killer" should always hit you, so that's not a very compelling argument. Her hatchets are able to be dodged at most ranges. Your comment seems applicable to most killers tbh. Youd have a significantly easier time dodging a hatchet up close as opposed to the spear gun.
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Deathslinger is unfair and unfun 1v1. I'd rather go to the dentist than see him.
Huntress is overpowered across the board, especially a good one. 5 hatchets with hardly any cooldown between throws, with smaller and nerfed maps.
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I main huntress and play DS every so often.
Huntress has to ready hatchets and they travel a certain distance depending on how long you charge it as well as how far they travel. There is no crosshair or iron sight to show you where the hatchet will go. She (unless using the add on) gets slowed for readying a hatchet and gets a short cool down before she can melee after throwing or putting the hatchet away. She has to reload hatchets at lockers. DS reloads at free will. DS doesn't need to charge his gun up to get the full speed and distance out of his weapon.
While I understand the average huntress will get on your butt and use hatchets it's no different from Billy doing it with chainsaw or even some DS that do it. They just aren't confident in their skill to hit you.
TIP: When running from huntress don't hug walls. When people do this I throw the hatchet a little to the opposite of the wall they hug so that when they try to dodge its a guaranteed hit. It's enough so that if they dodge they get hit and if they don't they get hit.
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My fav thing when I play DS is when I get those survs that camp pallets or try to challenge me at pallets. Just pop out and shoot asap to catch me before they drop the pallet. It doesn't work everytime but it's gets me giggling like a little girl when it does.
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Haddonfields house of pain is pretty much closest thing to an infinite in the current game.
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