When's killer's version of hatch coming?
Where's my Myers-style instamori after a certain amount of hooks? Or how about no hooks? Just give it to killers at baseline. Does that seem too overpowered to you? Not to me. It's no more overpowered than hatch is.
Unashamedly I will say, "Yes. I do want the 4k all the time." Doesn't everybody? Don't all survivors want to escape every time? Of course we want those things. It's more a question of did we deserve it? "Could I have gotten that last kill?" In many circumstances, yes. Could a lone survivor have escaped by doing all the gens and opening the exit gates while there are 4 gens left? Not on your life. So why do they get a free escape? Why do they get a comeback factor and killers don't?
You could say NOED or Blood Warden can be used to make a comeback. But those are perks, whereas hatch is built into the game. If no gens get done and there's one survivor left alive, they STILL have a chance to escape.
The common argument is "killers have an equal chance to find the hatch and close it". It doesn't change the fact that there's a chance the survivor escapes when they likely shouldn't have. And that's not the end of it either because once hatch is closed the gates get powered for some reason.
Another argument defending hatch is, "But if there's no chance to escape, why shouldn't the survivor just hide?" If the killer gets tired of the survivor taking the game hostage, he should be able to open the exit gate AT ANY TIME. Please implement this. It's a compromise solution. It doesn't get rid of hatch but it ends one of its negative symptoms.
The EGC should also trigger after the last gen gets done. Another great solution. That makes the EGC an actual threat to the survivors, instead of 2 full minutes of overtime where they can rescue their hooked teammate as easily as any other time in the game. They're pressured to open the exit gates and run out, before time runs out. It's a buff to Blood Warden? So what? That's still a fringe perk anyway that could be played around by 99ing the gates.
I'm not kidding about my initial idea for a killer's hatch. If you're not gonna remove hatch, at least give killers an equivalent. 5 hooks or so into the game: the killer gets to mori someone. It's a shortcut just like hatch, because you can use a key to open it before all the gens are done. "But we can't tell how many hooks someone is on!" Add a hook counter below the survivor section of the UI! It's that easy!
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Comments
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Isn't the killers version of hatch just endgame facecamping?
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It is an asymmetrical game. There doesn’t need to be a counterpart for everything on both sides.
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I agree. Goes both ways as well.
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Bring in a red mori
Use Devour Hope
Everything you want you already have.
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If all 5 gens get done before you get a single hook you can just open the doors and walk out the exit gate for 5k points.
Not really but I felt like typing that.
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I like the hatch, and I probably play around 90% killer and 10% survivor. It's annoying when people gloat about it or sit around waiting for you to watch them leave but whatever.
I usually don't waste time slugging for the 4k, in the time I could do that I could have played out half another match. I only do it if I want the last survivor that badly. It keeps the games moving, and it's always funny when you are winning so hard the team breaks down and people start killing each other for it.
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I only agree that the killer should be able to open the gates if there is one survivor left.
Other than that, I don't agree with you.
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I mean hatch only activates when you've killed the other three survivors, which 99% of people will agree once that has been achieved you've won the match as Killer since hatch is just a luck mechanic and has no equation to skill, even if the survivor gets out.
I think its fine and I'm a Killer main.
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The Killers are supposed to be the "bad guys" in a horror movie or game.
Do you prefer to clench your butt cheeks and get your hopes high when Mary McGuffin nearly escapes after her friends get murdered, or do you prefer it when everyone dies because Mike Meyers decided that giving everyone a chance to escape was for pussies?
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See the problem is you want 4 things, whereas 4 survivors want one thing each(sometimes more but we're usually okay with just us, or at least one of us, escaping).
I'm not saying you shouldn't want four kills per game, everyone wants to have a perfect 4k 32,000 point game, but these things don't happen all that much. More often in lower ranks, a lot less often in higher ranks.
You expecting 4ks every game is wanting what is statistically <20% of the time, every time. That's just no bueno, my dude. We all want to be the bestest best players in the world but that's not always gonna happen, my dude.
There's expectations, and then there's reality. Sometimes they coincide, but you can't expect that you're going to ride that high all the time.
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Those are perks and offerings. Hatch is base game. Did you miss that part?
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Must be nice. Survivors never do that to each other in my games.
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No offense but the moment you said "I want my 4K." Your argument kinda went null. This whole thing is countered by the pink Mori which killer seemed to have an abundance of.
Get over yourself, if you don't like the hatch then dont play. You already know the game isn't balanced and it probably never will be. Killers are already pampered enough, this is more then enough for them. Especially with the twins, you guys already have your stuff.
So what if they escape if they've hardly done any generators, that simply means one of two things. You're that good of a killer to the point where you can apply crazy pressure; or the survivors made dumb plays, or were too over altruistic to the point they gen 3 themselves or worse.
The only case and point I agree with you with is Key + early hatch considering I just got out a match and I just did that taking 2 other people with me. There's nothing you can do about that, you'll win some and you'll lose some. All you can do is grow from the experience. Take your losses and reflect on it, see what you can do better; pay attentions to offerings, they DO matter, devise a better strategy, start from scratch. Suck it up and don't be such a delicate flower. Sorry to but harsh but this just me being blunt.
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Well why not? Why can't a killer open the gates any time? If a killer gives up, they can almost immediately end the game instead of waiting 4 minutes for the gens to get done.
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Introducing a non-punishable "I give up" option is just a bad idea, sure survivors have it in the hook mechanic, but it was clearly unintentional and I'd even argue removing the option to struggle in second stage and rather, have the game force you to struggle by default should be something implemented.
There's been many games where I've wanted to give up, but didn't because sitting in a corner for 3 minutes is a waste of time for both sides, so I'll continue playing and end up getting a 2-4K, thanking myself that I didn't give up.
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You should be punished for your teammates' stupidity. It's a team game. Name one team game that rewards somebody for having bad teammates. A mechanic based on the possibility that you'll have a bad game is not practical.
It's stupid and it's abusable, because even when all but 1 survivor have left through the exits, the game still opens hatch anyway. Why? Is it too hard for the survivor to get from where they are to the gate, so they get a randomly spawned closer exit? That's the equivalent of giving killer an instant teleport to the exit gates whenever they're open.
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Mind you, i've played a match where we got gen 5'd. This nightmare was applying INSANE friggin pressure, using dream snares, pwyf, and tinkerer. I don't remember the rest of his build but he was on the ball. We did the best we could to get a generator to 80% before he downed a person tp'd to us and yeeted us out. I'm pretty sure he also had ruin. Surprisingly, he didnt have BBQ because tinkerer did the job for him plus the tracks we leave when sprinting.
Sooooooooooo, what's your point again?
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That one kill, which you very much deserved 99% of the time, is the difference between 1 pipping and 2 pipping, or between black pipping and 1 pipping. A large chunk of the player base sees pipping, or at least ranking up, as a win. Are they all chop liver to you?
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Rank really doesn't mean anything in this game.
The only thing it correlates to is gameplay time, not actual skill since even potatoes who play long enough can get to red ranks. Plus, matchmaking puts brown ranks with red ranks sometimes.
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But the rEaLiTy is that without hatch, that 4th kill was yours. Easily. And what's worse, it gives toxic survivors an out. They're emboldened knowing that no matter how much they screw up, throwing the game just to get in a few more tbags and flashlight clicks, they'll still have a more than reasonable chance to escape anyway. SO MANY of this game's problems can be linked back to hatch. That's a fact.
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This is a question I've asked myself since day 1, and you know what its ######### hilarious that it still hasn't come yet
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You mean the Endgame Collapse?
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You just have to play better. Survivors only respect you if you give them a reason to fear you. Remember the baseline is reset each game. When you come out of the gates swinging, people notice. If you are slacking, you will be disrespected. It's just like anything in life.
I noticed your avatar is the trapper, you should try other more potent killers. I am given little respect on M1 killers until I prove I am a threat. Using some of the stronger killers in the game, I am shown a great amount of respect even when I play poorly.
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And if a survivor doesnt use perks, theyre never gonna last long enough to make it to hatch. Whats your point?
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Survivors only respect you if you give them a reason to fear you.
I don't find that to be inherently true.
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As painstakingly obvious as it is, I must remind you that ebony moris are an offering. They're not for free, unlike hatch. And I, like others, do not have an abundance of them. I have less than 10 on each killer, and I don't like using them.
You're harshness comes from you being insanely survivor sided. Your description of the killer mindset is laughable, because you actually think people think like that. If I had an extremely sweaty match against a good SWF, I'm not happy just because I got 3 of them. I'm usually pissed off instead, because I could have killed the last one, but some pacifier mechanic allowed then to get away after all the work I did. There is no reflecting on hatch escape matches, nor anything to learn, nor anything to feel proud about. I got those kills! I did! Me! And I got them fair and square. But because the survivor walked to a random door on the ground and pressed a button, they win.
Play killer, at red ranks, with multiple killers instead of just 1, and maybe use some brown add-ons. Already do? That's great. Play some more. You'll know where I'm coming from eventually.
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I play to win. If there's no chance of winning I don't want to play. I have been giving up recently too. There's been a few matches where there were no weak link survivors, tons of safe loops, gen rush, Ruin/Undying goes down very quick, and before you know it I have 1 hook versus their 4 gens done. If survivors have a free "give up" option, so should killers.
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Sucks for you. But not every killer is godlike like the one you went against. The killer shouldn't be punished for playing well, and that's exactly what hatch does.
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I'm a broken record here but: Moris and NOED are offerings and perks, not base game like hatch.
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Good idea. Poor execution. Read the post next time.
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I read it. EGC is fine.
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"Play a different killer." That old song is what's wrong with this game. You can't play the killers you like because they're not good enough, and they're likely never to get buffed. I can understand a bit of power variation between the top and bottom performing killers, but this game has it bad. A poor Spirit player is far superior to an excellent Trapper player, etc. You've accepted that the way things are is bad, whereas I'm trying to change things.
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Everyone of OP's arguments are laughable. The hatch is already killer sided, the likelihood that the killer is going to see and close the hatch before a last survivor can find it is way better considering they get to walk the map without any concerns, and have been the whole game. So unless the team never got below 3 gens, the hatch has been sitting somewhere the killer could have seen it for a while. Then they move faster, thus increasing the ability to beat the survivor to it.
Considering how many random players there are, of course other people's poor game play should not mean the last person should get killed automatically. With EGC already geared toward giving killers free kills, I think that is probably enough. And your thirst to have zero escape and just have to find the survivor tells me you are fairly new to this game. There used to be hatch stand-offs that could last an hour. And a survivor could just hide on the map forever until the killer DCd out of frustration. That is how things used to be.
And finally I have heard the word "DESERVE" thrown around a lot in this thread. There is literally nothing you are owed or deserve in this game ever on either side. If a survivor gets out, well you did not deserve that kill, and if a survivor gets killed, well it was not meant to be. But every player should have an opportunity to play, and you deciding that if 3 people go down you should just automatically get the game called in your favor is pretty ridiculous.
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So they get less than 10k bp and obviously depip. Who cares?
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That's an exaggeration. Certain killers are good without perks or add-ons, like Hag or Nurse, and the same is true of survivors. The point is that hatch is guaranteed to spawn, in a winning situation or a losing one. And instead of it being something skill based, it's really just a casino game of random chance. Lots of things in this game are RNG like pallet spawns, but unlike pallets, hatch guarantees an escape if you beat the killer to it.
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Unfortunately for you, you sound like a child. Okay? You got 3 kills. If you couldn't get a precious 4k from that obviously you fmtcked up somewhere. It's funny because we've come to an impasse where you believe I'm entitled when your whole post screams "Entitled and pampered." Or "If I can't win, I'll just quit." That's a horrible mindset.
Whatever floats your boat is soon to sink it. There Is things to reflect on in EVERY match. Not just your losses. Again, get over yourself. Every killer can use the same point you did but you don't hear them complaining. Instead, they think about their plays and survivors players and devise a better strategy to get a 4k.
You play too competitive and because of that, you refuse to accept the fair you can reflect on everything. You won't learn a thing if you cannot think about how to play better, how to mindgame or stop loops from occuring. Even the best players of DVD have much to learn and reflect on when they lose or win. There's nothing you can do against SWF people or the hatch, the most you can do is GUARNTEE it's location. Easiest way is the offerings that spawn the hatch in the shack or main room. Pay attention to your surroundings. Hence why I said pay attention to the offerings, they'll tell you a lot.
A tl;Dr is. Shut up and learn. You're blinded by an aggressive and competitive play style that you can't even use another's strat to win. If you can't win, you'll quit the whole game. You'd be better off NOT playing Dbd or RQ when you're losing since you've basically wasted EVERYONE'S time. Again, here's your shot to reflect upon how you can do better.
Suggestion: if you don't want a survivor getting the hatch, slug the 3rd and force out the 4th. It's like the survivor will believe they can save their friend. It works almost every time and in the event that it doesn't, get over it; you're not meant to win every match you play.
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I at least feel like the hatch shouldn't reward extra points. It should reward fewer points if all 5 gens haven't been done, and the survivor should get a different screen than "Escaped," something a bit less celebratory. The hatch is supposed to be a consolation prize at best, not a goal. As is, survivors are encouraged to go for the hatch and it just shouldn't be like that. All 5 gens didn't get done, it's not a win, it's just RNG. Killers have four possible end screens (Entity Displeased, Brutal, Ruthless, Merciless); survivors could have a third.
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You're thinking way too small on hatch if you think it's killer sided. Amazingly enough, at one point, hatch did not exist. People played the game happily without it. You think that playing killer makes you all-knowing and that you'll always get to the hatch first. No. Many times the hatch spawns in an area you've never needed to go to in the later part of the match, because a gen was done there at the very beginning. Why is it in the game? If the killer could open a gate at any time, or the EGC started after the last gen was done, like I've suggested, we wouldn't need it. It's a crutch for survivors, not for killers. For survivors, you press a button and win. For killers, you press a button and hope the gates are close enough to patrol because that's yet another 2nd chance survivors have at escaping.
And really? EGC gives the killer free kills? I can't remember that last time I got an EGC kill!
And you treat "deserve" and "owed" as if they're taboo terms, but if I wasn't using those I'd be explaining the exact same message, just with different words. If killers aren't owed anything for playing well, and if survivors aren't owed anything for playing well, then what's the point of this game? You can't have a game that doesn't reward players for doing something right. That's the whole point of a game!
That 4th kill is as good as mine in 99% of scenarios. Unless the survivors have the gates opened, there's 2 left, I kill one and the other escapes through the gate, there's no reason I wouldn't be able to get that last kill unless I threw the game. The hatch skips that entire scenario. A bush hiding Claudette could do nothing all game and get that escape. What about hatch is killer sided? It exists to give survivors another chance to escape!
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Just want you to know that there's alpha game play of hatch existing before the actual release of the game. You can watch a survivor escape before any gens had been completed. So hatch has always been in the game, just changed multiple times.
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Okay, you said his argument was invalid at "I want my 4k", but I read "This is more than enough for them, especially with the Twins", and my mind immediately went:
"Oh, yes, because a buggy, unfinished, unfun, and borderline unplayable Killer is pampering Killer Mains."
Talk about us vs them issues.
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No
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Maaan. I can’t wait until I unlock Appraisal. I’m REALLY gonna aim for my hatch build in solo queue. Pharmacy (Automatic Heal and chest opening speed), Plunderers Instinct (Purple/Red Keys), Appraisal (Increased odds of finding a key 3 more times), and probably Left Behind (To locate the hatch).
Hatch is specifically designed for solo queues. When your team sinks it’s not fair if the last person was actually decent enough to survive the killer. I hate having to die and even depip because the entire night consisted of lemmings and potatoes...
If anything give the killer a Ultra-Rare add on the Blood Web that will prevent the spawn of a hatch for that round. This counters the add ons that increase the odds of hatch spawning to in certain spots. In the end survivors that bring keys into the trial will have wasted them if they were to die without the band add on.
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when's the survivor version of bloodlust coming?
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It'd be hilarious to see the heads exploding if, when all 5 gens are done, a big red button appears. If killer presses that button, then the last survivor to try to exit is instagibbed by the entity. Survivors would lose their proverbial feces.
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No because it's a trade off. You secure one kill and let the others escape.
You have to bring those, they aren't free.
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Everyone else died, you didn't finish the gens, have a petty escape.
Everyone else escaped, the gates are opened, have a petty kill.
Seems pretty close to me.
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Except you have to earn that kill with a chase AND let others escape (trade off). You don't need to work for the hatch or make a trade off.
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You are proving my point splendidly with this little diatribe. YOU FEEL ENTITLED TO KILLS YOU DID NOT EARN. The words "deserve" and "owed" should not be a point you are trying to make because if you don't actually kill people you aren't owed anything. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose but at no point do you deserve anything. And you are discounting that survivors who played well and are the last man standing should have a chase to win as well. It is already vastly stacked against them. Hatch, killer-sided, EGC killer-sided, and the killer is faster, can run any number of perks to pin point your location and generally has some other built in ability like distance shots or ports or blinks. It is appalling that even though a survivor in that situation is already horrendously disadvantaged, you are salty that they might want to have a reason not to just suicide at your feet. Has it even occurred to you that survivors might want to have a fun game too, or are the survivors just fodder for your amusement. If that is the case I recommend you petition the devs for NPC mode, so you can just kill to your hearts content w/o having to be inconvenienced by anyone else just trying to enjoy a game.
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Covered that already. Keep up.
Survivors arent making it to hatch without perks.
Next.
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The Endgame Collapse is not meant to be a threat, its meant to be a way of preventing the game being held hostage in endgame. It currently fits that role to a T and if it isn't broke, don't fix it. It's not meant to get you kills its meant to let you open the gate if you want to concede and stop the hatch standoff.
Also it's clear you don't play much solo queue survivor. Should I, myself, be punished, because I as a rank 1 was matched against a rank 1, with 3 rank 12s who camp pallets and die in 4 seconds whilst never touching a generator? No. Dbd is as much as 1 v 3 v 1 than it is a 1 v 4 game and if my teammates are absolute spanners and farm me from hook before dying anyway should I be punished? For something entirely out of my control?
Oh I'd love for you to experience PRE-EGC hatch, I'd just ######### love to. You think it's bad now, oh boy.
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