Poor Legion...
After watching the QAN stream the devs just did, it broke my heart to see that Legion isn't getting any changes. Why is Demo or even Wraith getting changed before him? Demo is a solid mid tier that's fun to go against and Wraith, despite being pretty bad in my opinion, is still better than Legion. We were promised a rework for him along time ago, the devs said when they first changed him to how he is now, that his current form was only "temporary", so when is this rework coming? From what I see on these forums Legion isn't fun to play against for survivors either so I really don't understand why he's being ignored. There's also the fact the most recent patch completely broke him and now he's basically unplayable for who knows how long. I just wish they gave poor Legion some love.
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wraith bad demo addons bad legion is better then both
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I don't think Legion needs a rework. If they full reworked him, I'd probably quit Killer.
That said, he needs some of the nerfs from the rework reverted, such as being able to double stab someone and not losing all your power upon miss. Also, getting rid of the losing half their power on M1 and 3 second fatigue would be nice
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What? How is Legion better than Demo? Wraith I can maybe see but like Demo? How?
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They only have 600 employees, don't be too hard on them.
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Wraith really needs more changes than legion but Demo, Demo just need better add-ons he is a solid killer
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Legion needs a different power to become a strong Killer. You cannot make him strong with the power he currently has, vaulting Windows and Pallets needs to go to make him strong.
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I'm not saying do it all at once, I'm just peeved by that fact they picked Demo to get changed before him.
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Are you referring to the bug?
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Yeah, it's probably going to take a hot minute to fix it so anyone who likes playing Legion is out of a job.
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I don't think so. Just some QOL improvements would make him a whole lot better.
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If you would revert all his changes, Legion would still be a bad Killer. They were always a weak Killer, at any time. They are not super-bad IMO, but far from good.
You simply cannot have a Power which allows to vault windows and pallets and expect that the Kit of that Killer will also be strong.
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Ehm not to burst your bubble but i don't believe the devs have ever promised a rework after their latest one.
They are also not as bad as everyone says. A few QoL changes is all they need
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Legion when they came out were so good he almost killed the game. In my opinion they nerfed him to hard. Just revert some of the changes and he'd be a lot better.
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I disagree. His power isn't just "run fast, vault pallets". It's the ability to chain the stabs to cause pressure across the map. It's the ability to stab someone and just get flooded with information. THAT is Legion's strength, which no one seems to realize.
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poor little guys
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I'm pretty sure in the patch notes of when he first got changed they said that this form was only temporary. Even if they didn't he's still worse than Demo, and in my opinion, Wraith, so he should've been changed before them. I don't even care about a rework I wish he'd get some QOL changes like Trapper.
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They almost killed the game because they were a design failure, not because they were good. Legion was a Killer who basically guaranteed a Down while losing the game.
EDIT: Let alone that the Devs never promised another Rework, they said, if anything happens to Legion, it will be small tweaks.
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demo addons are so bad
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But so are Legions's, and Demo's base kit is is stronger than Legion's.
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Old Legion wasn't good as much as he removed every defensive option survivors had against killers while also being very easy to play. You either hit the survivor multiple times until they went down from Feral Frenzy stabs or you broke chase and caught the mending survivor off guard or forced them to go down by the deep wound timer. Either way Legion didn't have to work to get downs and that wasn't healthy for the game.
However, despite how broken Legion's ability to down survivors were. It took ages for him to actually get downs and survivors would just not heal and do gens and get 4 man escapes anyways.
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legions are are so much better then demos demo has 1 good addon which is a brown addon
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I'd rather get Wraith changed he's the weakest stealth and has been needing a buff for a long time so I'd take him over legion. And Demo I have feeling Netflix wants him to be played more.
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What? Legion's only good add-on is the ire-button, aside from that all his add-on's are sub-par like Demo's.
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I don't really care about them buffing Wraith because he's another bottom tier like Legion, it just caught me off guard that Demo was being changed before both of them. Honestly I didn't consider that Netflix might be pulling strings, if that's the case then I can understand why the devs needed to change him.
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My friend says he 4ks with legion at r1. Killer is poorly designed. Gets half his hits free and forces survivors to essentially play injured all game with little counter. Hell need a rework before he gets a buff.
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Is this a joke post?
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I'm not a fan of what just happened to Legion, but as a Legion main I tested out the bug, nerf, whatever we are calling it now, yesterday and out of 5 matches I got 4k in 3 of them.
I struggled with the larger maps because the survivors were able to spread out better and I just couldn't cover the distances the way I'm use to with FF, but other then an amazing Cherly who looped my ass super hard I didn't really see to much of an issue here.
I would mind a bit of a rework or even a buff to certain add ons, but since I didn't get to play original Legion I don't have any complaints about how they are now. I just hope this bug gets fixed soon.
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Legion only needs better addons and less cooldown like 3 seconds and DON T LOSE HIS POWER IF A M1.
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What can you not comprehend? His first hits have no counterplay. There are players that know how to use him effectively. They will not buff him unless he is reworked. That is the consequence of having a killer that gets totally free hits.
The killer is fine, most people just suck at using him because they cannot run tiles for their hit downs.
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I can comprehend plenty. I have been a Legion main for a long time. I know how to play Legion. I also know their strengths and weaknesses. The free hits bit is silly. Most people that KNOW a Legion is coming keep themselves spread out so that the chance of Legion using their power for a stab is minimized greatly. At most it gives the Legion a head start before they become an M1 slugger that is penalized for M1. Add on top of that the fatigue they will take if they choose to pursue someone at the edge of their Killer Instinct range.
Legions primary power isn't "free hits". It's to apply pressure by keeping the Survivor team in an Injured state, which in theory means that every Survivor is one hit away from Dying. Their entire power is built around this premise. They run around, getting everyone Injured by any means possible within justification. Hence why they can vault pallets and windows. They are basically throwing out lethality in trade for being able to get to a target within a set time-frame. It is by no means free, and comes with a litany of punishments to the Legion player, regardless of whether they played well or poorly. The fact you even think this way makes me believe YOU don't properly comprehend the Killer. Furthermore, Legion is TECHNICALLY a mid-tier Killer, statistically speaking. This means that many people DO actually play Legion alright. The issue is the lack of lethality and a low skill ceiling due to the punishment mechanics that work against Legion.
There are minor, QoL improvements that can be made to Legion in order to "buff" them. Most Legion players would be happy with that. Also, Deep Wounds is garbage and needs a rework more than Legion does.
As for having no counters, no. Not healing keeps everyone Injured (obviously), but has the bonus of invalidating Legions power use. At that point, it's a small mobility boost if you want to clear the map faster, but that's about it. Once you get to someone, you have to eat a DS-lite before you can attack them as normal, allowing them to make their way to a loop or obstacle. If you think an M1 Killer that can move fast every now and then and eats a DS after every jog can't be countered, you got problems. Legion isn't one of them.
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Post 212 of me saying to REMOVELEGION
In all seriousness they need to make DEEP wound affective, not just on Legion but perks aswell.
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Dude I completely agree with this (nice to see a competent legion player who understands them) but I got completely thrown off by the DS part cause I could only think of it as Legion being forced to eat a Nintendo DS lol
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legion has two good ire addon and has the power addon which makes able to use his power for longer (I forgot the name) he also has an addon that makes survivors broken what does demo have? a rat liver
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Is that correct?
I thought always they would be just be some small indie dev team (what do I know... Something between 10-30 + freelancers from time to time), because... well... of the "speed" with what changes coming in the game.
Well... Then I better say nothing anymore, because it is hard to find kind words under this conditions. Especially towards the Legion situation, that was a betrayal on the majority of the playerbase, just in favor of a toxic minority, but also other points staying then in a completley new light for me, like that this game still has no new game modes and stiuations in dbd still exist where 1 side can the other totally outplay, match making, bugs... Need I to go on?
I just shake my head instead.
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Making Survivors broken is the opposite of what you want.
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Spread out and never heal, yup. Everyone is forced to be injured or waste time healing against a killer that gets yes, free hits. You can twist it anyway you want, they are free hits. Are there weaknesses around it? Yes, as there should be. But they are still free hits. His counterplay to his actual power in chase is boring bc there is none.
As I said, he's basically fine just poorly designed and thus a buff would not be healthy. I know people that play Legion and do more than fine. I'm not advocating for a nerf or buff, simply a reworking if killers dont enjoy him. I find that hard to believe though so I see him so often.
If he is mid tier, good. Not every killer needs to be a god like Freddy and Spirit. Especially when solo survivors rely solely on rng for their quality of team mates.
Besides, he's most think hes trash bc most killers dont run tiles well at all and they rely heavily on their powers these days. I have 5k hours and rarely come across a killer that runs tiles well at all. They are out there and they are usually m1 pigs and trappers who know how to actually kick ass in tiles.
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Eh imo Legion is better then wraith and Demo weaker then both
Demo announces almost everything he does globally and you can't mindgame survivors that pay attention because how much he stomps his feet. He turns almost every game into a swf with how much information he gives survivors
I find demo to be one of the weaker killers tbh
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One of the counter to his "free hit" is literally run in a straight line. If you are anywhere more than a killer shack away (1.5 killers shacks with both duration add-ons) he will not catch up. I do it all the time. Also drop a pallet on him if you can, his powers gone. If you're spread out he can't chain and he's just an M1 killer who stuns himself for too long. If you really want to heal, as long as you stay spread out, if you have any self healing feel free to use it or just heal with a buddy away from Legion and split up again immediately after. If he frenzy's and no one shows up or they are way too far, he's just going to injure one person at a time and go back to M1 mode and basically be a killer with no power. If you are near anyone and you hear the TR getting closer you split immediately. If you see a DW bar appear and you hear the TR run immediately away.
I play as and against Legion at red ranks, the survivors that get chained are the ones who don't spread out or try to stealth around while Legion is in frenzy because they don't know how the killer works. I still see survivors hiding in lockers when I'm in frenzy to this day. If you're struggling against legion you or your team is most likely unskilled or hasn't learned his counter-play or how he even works. You can't do much about your team unless you have friends.
I can tell you now, if I'm in a survivor group we never struggle with Legion unless someone majorly screws up. Even solo as soon as I see the deep wounds bar on anyone I stay away as much as I can, but sometimes you just get those teams where it doesn't matter because they're potatoes.
Not trying to bash or anything, just offering advice/understanding/whatever.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
And who are you, to decide, if a killer deserves to be top tier? That is toxic. You just say to the playerbase behind it "I don't care for you, I like to life in my own bubble, obey to it or stop playing".
Every killer deserves to be top tier, because every player behind it matters. Like it also is on the survivor side. There deserves also every survivor to have the same chances, or would you like it if every survivor besides Claudette would move slower next patch about 20%, just because not every survivor needs to be top tier?
Every killer and I mean EVERY killer, should be nearly on the same level, to give the players the maximum on fun they can have with this character and in this game.
You survivors talking so often about fun. Nearly every day comes a thread with that one up, but if we talk about killers questions come up like "is it really necessary?". Yes it is necessary to have fun.
Until bhvr starts not to pay the killerplayerbase we need to have fun, clear now?
And Legion is not fine!
The Legion rework was a betrayl on the playerbase where bhvr decieded to exchange 1 part of the playerbase with another and this decision curses dbd to this day (well deserved in my opinion - everytime someone dc's = say thanks to the devs because they have done what the toxic part of the community wanted and not what the more calm part wanted).
And it was also a scam. Don't know how it is in other countrys, but in my you have to deliver what you sell and no matter how you think about the Legion, they don't deliver anymore what they sell and there is no justification for it, if you are not biased to only your own enjoyment.
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kinda weird that you seem to care so much about a killer you also want to see changed.....just play legion if you like legion jeez
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The counter play to Legion is to split up to avoid allowing him to chain hits, meaning he has to chase you, greatly diminishing the value of his power. Yes, the nature of Legion's power means that in the 1v1, Legion will get the first hit. To say there is no counterplay is wrong because there is. in the 1v4, he's nullified by splitting. In the 1v1? Sure, he can get 1 single hit in... and that's it. He can't down you. That's the counterplay. Looping him normally and not wasting time healing.
And... what point are you making? You're saying he's bad because most killers are bad? First off, how elitist of you. Second, what kind of logic is that? That's like saying Nurse is garbage because most Nurses are terrible. And I think everyone and their mother knows just how scary an actual good Nurse is.
I just don't understand your arguement. "Legion gets a first hit, so he should never be buffed!" The main thing Legion players want is to be rewarded more for chaining stabs and reducing some of the punishments he faces if he plays well. He will still keep his weakness as an M1 killer with no power for finishing people. If you're so good, then it's fine—Legion is a low tier killer that has to outplay you at tiles. I don't understand, is your problem that Legion can get you down a health state the entire game? Then start suggesting reworks for Plague while your at it...
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I mean the main part of The Legion's ability is to "Stab You" (The first Legion nerf removed the ability to down survivors with the Power, which is just plain dumb. If my ability is to stab you, then it should down you as well.). The main aspect of Legion's ability is still there, just not the increased Movement speed.
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Are you sure youre talking about the same game everyone else here is talking about?
Pre nerf Legion is the reason the devs are so scared and cautious with killers now because they were the most broken and unbalanced thing to ever be created and it killed their playerbase more than anything, even more than the Drought of 2017 did (the content gap between Hag and Doctor.)
There was even PTB 2.5 where they BUFFED frenzy into a two-tap on injured survivors with franks tape and for just that brief moment they were Nurse tier. If they found you, you were down. At least 1 person at a time was garunteed to not be able to play the game if they were playing against Legion. The most you could do was waste their time for as long as possible but always going down. Its because they COULD go over and through survivor defenses and have that exploitable lethality (with mixtape and moonwalking) Obviously that never made it out of ptb lolol
They were strong but for completely all the wrong reasons.
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According to the steamstats, the "kill" of the playerbase came after the rework, not before.
And I have shorten my posting via. editing. As a former Legionmain I don't need to reveal the lies anymore, put in place by the toxic part of the community to that time.
I just need to lean back and giggle sometimes about the state of dbd how it is today because, the roots to that lay back in this rework and because of it, dbd has totally deserved to be the game it is today :).
Post edited by Talmeer on0 -
That would not make him any stronger or remove the problem of him being mind numbingly dull to play against.
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Yeah, let's be honest... Old Legion was one of the worst things to have ever been in the game. They were "balanced" in that they couldn't kill you very fast (without Frank's), so 2 survivors would likely have a chance of making it out. But, in the 1v1, they had no counterplay, which was just absurd.
Legion in their current state as a killer who can spread injury but has to finish you off as a normal killer is alright. The only issue is that he needs to be better at the spreading damage and slowing down the game parts, and have a smoother transition from Frenzy to Normal M1 killer (especially if the Legion plays well). They'll likely never be top-tier but they're relatively balanced in that they're not an instant win or loss either.
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What? No. I love Legion! I absolutely love the idea and aesthetic they have. Legion is the only killer that i truly love playing and can conform to the idea of "maining"
It was definitely not a myth that legion was so unfun to play against it stagnated the community (no not ALL their fault lol but they were icing on the cake lol). And any game i got to actually play them was like christmas for me, whether i won or lost.
I was personally happy with the nerfs they recieved because if it meant i could play with people dcing on me lol but i do think they all they needed to do was address the main reason they were broken which was moonwalk tunneling and death marking. I would love for them to bring back the on-hit interaction frenzy had thats what allowed them to have more fun options with a power that isnt meant to be lethal itself and i think ot was fine for them to have it.
As someone mentioned they are technically mid tier which is TECHNICALLY balanced even if they just dont feel like it. theyre unsatisfyingly "balanced" but they could just use... SOMETHING ya know?
Also if youre a Legion main, HUG ME, BROTHER! ♥
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Yea for sure. What frenzy does could just use a smoother transition for sure.
The quality of life improvements could come from rewarding frenzy chains. For each successful hit you get to keep a chain going could reduce the fatigue, or recover small portions of your meter, or frenzy gets faster each chain hit (ok maybe not that one lol but you get the idea lol). I would like to see that sort of thing to reward getting effective chainsgoing
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Ok, Franks Mixtape made them better, needing only 3 Hits in Frenzy compared to 4 was a huge thing.
But other than that, Legion gameplay was either to hit a Survivor 4 times in Frenzy, which takes quite a while OR cancelling the power and following as a 4.4 m/s-Killer. This, while all the other Survivors were doing Gens and did not waste any time healing, since Legion can injure pretty fast and takes ages to chase without his ability.
So while Legion were strong in that one chase (but not efficient), they lacked every other aspect. Which also lead to frustration on the Survivor Side, you lose chases, even against the worst Killer players and the only thing you can do against it, is to hold M1.
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As much as I would love to see ANY positiv changes but not before wraith. Wraith has been struggling for a long time not as much as leg
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