Twins = slugging
Let me start with prefacing I had enjoyed the twins in the PTB, the idea was cool and refreshing.
That said, after versing them quite often since release, I am really starting to hate them.
Pretty much 95% of the competent killers at red ranks go for a slug fest. There are so many games where you end up with 2-3 and even 4 people slugged.
This is NOT fun at all from a survivor perspective. It is even worse than being camped as it completely ruins a players experience.
Tofu and Scott also made videos to discuss this.
I think something needs to be done, I don't care about winning in DBD but I care about having fun and being slugged is the antithesis of fun.
Please help us Devs
Comments
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just what must be done? slugging is not against the game rules. not saying it's the best, but there are counters to slugging and you are probably one that doesn't want to change up their build to counter this. that's not the dev's problem but yours.
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It isn't against the rules, you are right. Even old Legion wasn't but that doesn't make it healthy for the game.
What am I supposed to do when I am slugged? One time I can bring unbreakable but the other times?
I have close to 2000 hours in this game, and I can't win chases all the time and ending up slugged is NOT an interesting feature of DBD.
I ended up slugged in my last 6/7 matches against the twins, what would you do? Turn dbd off until they go out of fashion?
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>This is NOT fun at all from a survivor perspective
deal with it
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I think we may see a shift in survivor perk meta, such as flip flop, for the people, buckle up, iron will, blood pact, slippery meat, soul guard, hope, and unbreakable (well, we already see that plenty). Perks that are used less may be more viable when slugging is more common. Although I do see the frustration
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well first of all old legion was not intended uses of his power/add ons and they fixed that. ONI is a slugging killer straight up, so why not another? recover and move away so they can't hook you. learn to use your unbreakable when it matters not just the first time you're down. There are other perks that can help you get up too just need to find them and break away from your 2K hour meta builds. I've got over 2.5K hours and I don't run the meta unless I'm messing around.
What would I do? if i'm that tired of it i'd go play another game and try again the next day.
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Blight is fun to play and play against, same for demogorgon, that is sadly rare.
That said when Otz was playing her, he mostly downed one survivor, jumped a healthy survivor afterwards with victor to create some more pressure, then he hooked the downed one, rince and repeat.
But then, that is otz
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yeah im sure players will forgo the meta for those just to be ready for the rare Twins player....
Most of the meta perks already help against it anyway, unbreakable and adrenaline and dead hard to avoid getting hit in the first place
aaand in the end of it, slugging all, then hooking is not really interesting nor profitable so I doubt it will really become a thing
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A fix like the old Legion is what I am asking, and on a broader spectrum a fix to the unfun things in the game like genrushing/slugging, ruin/UD, DS/UB etc etc
Tbh I don't see why slugging is even a thing in 2020, but well that's me.
Anyway, do you think I should just log off DBD for a while? I am a bit hesitant as I have just bought the new chapter and wanted to level up the chars but at the same time I am not enjoying the situation at all
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your choice if you stop playing for a while. I vowed not to buy the characters or the dlc till the main bugs are fixed. I play a few matches a day and I have lots of fun, even if i'm slugged i have fun. I play killer too! funny when i play killer I don't slug unless someone is right there so i go after them because i'm not giving someone a free pass. Slugging is pressure, when two are slugged the other survivors have to go there and that reduces further the gens being worked on. and the legion fixes (the moon walking issue, the two blades issue, etc) were fixes to bring the character into line with how it was supposed to be, you are not making a good comparison what so ever. Slugging is as much a part of the game as looping is part of the game.
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Sorry, I haven't explained the comparison with Legion. When Legion could down people with frenzy, it was boring as a survivor because there wasn't much of an interaction. If legion wanted you down, you went down.
And this comes from a Legion main lol
As for the rest, thank you for your advice. Appreciated!
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Against bad squads they are a slugging machine, yes. But against bad squads, Oni, Nurse, Spirit, hell even Demo are slugging machines.
Good people will not get mass injured and they will not group together. That's what makes them good, they know how to counter slugging without perks. With perks WGLF and unbreakable are pretty meta these days, so I really don't see it as a bad thing.
While I do agree that Victor could do with a slight nerf alongside buffing their kit, if you get 4 man slugged, it is entirely your fault and your teams fault for grouping up, getting all injured and not being able to stall victor for enough time to move him away from gens and friends.
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The problem with the twins is that the optimal way to play them is camping and slugging.
When you try playing them normally they just can't compete but if you play them optimally aka camping and slugging it makes it incredibly unfun to go against.
You need to find a way to strengthen them enough so that they could be played normally whilst also reducing the aspects that allow them to camp and tunnel effectively that way the most optimal way to play them will change
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[video evidence 1.39 seconds] Please explain to me what could be done against these kinds of scummy tactics in solo queue please. That's how I play dbd.
It is clear that the killer needs a nerf to the scummy tactics and an overall buff to compensate to make it fun and fair
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True indeed!
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yeah there are counters to slugging.. like a perk named unbreakable, but killers complain about that a lot and even call it toxic or overpowered because it offers counterplay.
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Look, I know that's annoying to be slugged, but that is a problem caused by a heavily survivor meta.
Just think about the time the killer has. It is 4 survivors, a gen gets done in 80 seconds base, no tools no perks.
The Killer has walk to a spawn point, locate survivors, hit them once (expecting they can actually loop), deal with the exaustion perk, hit them twice (again, expecting they can actually loop), pick up animation (ignoring time checking for saves), taking them to a hook, hook them. Without camping or tunneling they have to do this 12 times to kill all 4 survivors. Now without taking in account BT,DS,Soul Guard,Adrenaline.
Even the hatch is survivor sided, they can do no gens, and the killer HAS to slug the third survivor so the forth won't get a Free win.
Killers just don't have enough time to play nice anymore, they have to be efficient.
Not even talking about a Key match, that one kill is basically doing a gen for the survivor team.
Even truetalent, that thinks that slugging is boring, is saying that behavior is pushing the meta to become this, 1 hooking and 2 hooking survivors.
If the Killers had more time to spent they could give survivors more chances. Nerfing Gen speed and making the maps smaller would be a good start.
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Thanks for your input. My post has nothing to do with the balance of the game though, I am strictly speaking of the fun perspective.
I think we can all agree that being on the ground unable to play the game is boring, and I think we can all agree also with the fact that killers need to have a good time too.
The Twins, as they are, do not offer a fun and interactive playstyle.
That said, I have always thought that a long chase where the killer and the survivor are both interacting and having fun should be rewarded by the entity, like blocking gens for like 30 seconds to enjoy the 1 vs 1 aspect.
More chases, longer matches and more fun and BP for both sides
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Slugging being a built in mechanic that can easily be abused is what the problem is.
This is the first game I have played where the killer can virtually slug when/as many times as they want with little to no downside.
This is also a problem when it just guarantees that the “meta” will never change. Which as far as I am concerned, based on complaints in these forums and even in-game ones killers feel that UB is more common than not.
Slugging should have a built-in down side when done excessively, not just because it’s annoying but because it’s healthy for the game too.
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Twins can be countered easily. If you down people with victor and they spread out its easy to get them up, since charlotte is on the other side of the map most of the time and the WGLF meta really helps too.
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Stay in pairs if a survivor is injured if you get victor on you go wait until he is recalled at a loop near a gen no one is on.
Simply take the hit as an injured survivor and have the other crush victor then heal you, it is very easy to do and pretty consistent.
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I think the Twins are fine. I mean, maybe the twins shows the flaws in the game. It makes you wonder: why are so many people slugging? Because it causes pressure while quickly being able to cause more. Fact of the matter is we spend WAYYYY too much time hooking survivors, and the Twins aren't exactly the greatest outside of slugging.
Besides, No Mither, Unbreakable, Tenacity, Soul Guard (now indirectly buffed because Ruin Undying), and more help with being slugged. You want to not get slugged? Punish killers for playing the game efficiently, then proceed to slam gens/playing efficiently yourself? The survivor meta is already this. You would just have to make minor adjustments to the Smoll PP Build and boom, no more trouble from slugging killers.
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First of all Unbreakable by itself is not a problem and not complained about on its own. it is limited in how it work and is still a good balance, it is only complained about when combined with DS where you can SLUG someone and have to wait for one minute before picking up and if left alone the unbreakable lets the survivor get back up and continue on. sure that's how the interaction works but it's weaponized by people that get off of hooks to block the killer from going after the one that removed them from the hook. and this is what is complained about and is there. now there are multiple ways to get yourself up and unbreakable is just one such tool. the complaints on the new killer is not really about it's slugging by most but by the bugs that prevents people from learning best ways to play the killer. this killer is also a body blocker too but no one has brought this up on the forums it's all about sluging this or slugging that. body blocking for short periods are allowed ie: survivors blocking the hook while the survivor on shoulder wiggles free, a bubba or billy that revs the chainsaw followed by a strike are ok, but to block in and suck everything by a mikie for T3 is too long. they expanded the basement stair because of killers blocking the escape of survivors so now this means they can be blocked again, but no one brought this up here it's only oh no!!!! I can't stand being slugged! it's BORRRRRRRING! this is the problem people are looking for problems only and not ways to help the fixes to be put in.
No unbreakable alone is not toxic or overpowered, but combined with other perks it can be part of overpowered builds. and nothing is done to the survivors meta but the killer's meta is always changing, why is that? because too many whine here.
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Tell that to the killers who thought slugging at 5 gens was a good idea, but because the game “allows” them to do it they did it anyway. Yet they still complained about UB.
Point in the matter is that 4 Unbreakables aren’t going to counter the type of excessive slugging some killers are encouraged to do. It’s the reason I have come to despise Onis because 99% of them play this way.
Simply put. Out of the 10 times you can get slugged as a team, 4 are guaranteed to get you up ... that is if the killer isn’t camping your body at dying state.
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again the rules do not preclude slugging, nor does it preclude combining unbreakable with ds. and as I said unbreakable is not complained about by it's own, as it is not specifically overpowered. if you want to talk about unbreakable being complained about you might need want to talk about it in the way it is being complained about. I will not tell it to anyone because that is not my job, but does it matter if the killer does this at 5 gens remaining or at 0 gens remaining when it is not against the rules? use proper information when you are complaining here and move from complaining to being supportive and working to find a way to fix it and the devs will listen but might not agree with you and thus not do anything with your information as is their right. there is no reason to worry, and yes i've been slugged many times and it is irritating, but you know what? i move on and speak my mind to that killer if I can and move to the next game that is all.
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Oh yeah, being slugged for 3 minutes and calling it "map pressure" is so much fun.
I don't even slug for an entire minute as Nurse to apply map pressure. This is messed up.
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You do know what happens to games that aren't 'fun' right? Nobody plays them because they're not fun.
Doesn't get much simpler than that.
So if your good with playing an empty lobby simulator everything's fine the way it is.
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If you watch all the good killer streamers, even scott who has a video on these twins, you will see that a lot of times slugging is almost necessary unless you don't mind getting dumped on. The problem is the balance of the game that requires this tactic a lot of times. The twins are just better at it than most.
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i said deal with it, survivors have a billion ways to deal with slugging and camping
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You ask a person to 'deal with it' if they don't find a games mechanics fun and pretty soon you'll find yourself playing said game by yourself because all the people you told to 'deal with it' did just that and left for a game that's actually fun.
So again, I guess if your fine with playing an empty lobby simulator sweet as.
But if your not, and you'd rather be able to actually get into matches rather than playing that empty lobby simulator I guess you'd just better 'deal with it' yourself because that's what you'll be getting with that mind set lol.
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I am talking about UB in the way that I have experienced it. Just because people have issue with how it combines with DS does not mean people who often complain about UB, aren’t complaining because their excessive slugging didn’t pan out as much as they wanted.
I am not arguing the “rules” behind what you can/cannot do. I am fully aware that your only timer on “Slugging”, is practically the survivors’ dying state bar. No one is arguing that it isn’t in accordance to the game’s rules.
The point is that it shouldn’t be possible to slug as much or whenever you feel like it, without any downside. Because in actuality survivors have to bring PERKS to counter a BUILT-IN mechanic, which can become borderline abused and more so with killers whose powers are encouraged to do just that.
I already expressed my concerns for allowing to happen. Just because it’s not against the rules doesn’t make it any less unbalanced.
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Name the perks then !?
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You know, there's a perk that lets you pick yourself up from dying state as many times as you want, maybe No Mither will become meta against the Twins XD
All jokes aside, slug fest is NOT fun. I hope the devs do something to address the issue soon, slugging every now and then is fine for pressure but the common Twins playstyle is downright terrible. Coming from someone who plays equal Survivor and Killer, its not fun from either side, and it can get to a point where the community will start calling for vast changes (like they are now) so hopefully the devs listen, for the game's health the the communities happiness.
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It takes 15-41 seconds to hook a survivor after downing them as Victor.
3 second attack CD, 3 second transition time, 4-15 seconds moving Charlotte to the body, about 5 seconds spent in pickup/hook animations, and 0-15 seconds spend carrying the body to a hook.
That is so absurdly time consuming that the twins literally just don't have any other option than to slug.
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People are actually thinking that the Twins are strong, I don't know how many more counters you need to have? Maybe you should git gud.
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This is what happens when you make a killer that's can down but has so much counter play that if they even stop their power for 5s it could be destroyed and undone never had massive slugging issues with death slinger or ph now did we
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I've been playing a few games with the twins and their whole issue in regards to slugging seems to be more fundamental to the design of the killer than anything else. The only way I can describe playing them is that you aren't controlling a killer, you're controlling two half-killers. Playing them is really slow which isn't a bad thing but it's so sluggish a lot of the time, especially when switching back to charlotte and because of how easy it is to kill victor people naturally wanna get the best use out of him as possible so they turn to slugging to get their value since victor can't do anything else other than attack and act as a radar, Charlotte does nothing on her own so all your value comes from Victor. Balance wise the twins are really tough to make them fun to vs and decently strong to play as and the only way to get rid of the slugging is to straight up nerf them because unfortunately the twins, by design are a slugfest. So the only other alternative is a full on rework really.
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I can't wait for Tenacity and No Mither to become the new meta against this Killer.
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It's funny to see people responding to completely legitimate criticism of a new killer, from a survivor perspective, with statements like "deal with it."
The point isn't that rules are being violated or even that the Twins are necessarily too strong or unfair. The point is that the mechanics of the killer encourage (actually require, honestly, if you want to do well) gameplay that is not fun for 4 of the 5 people in the game. The Twins have an unparalleled ability to facecamp survivors and Victor is best used as a slugger/snowballer, and is very powerful at this assuming he is used correctly and the player doesn't leave him exposed constantly by going for risky lunges.
Anyone who cares about the overall health and longevity of the game should care that 3 out of 4 of the most recently released killers are considered unfun to play against by a large number of survivor players. Considering, again, that this game needs 4 survivor players for every killer, that is not a good precedent.
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Soul Guard, tap's perk that lets you crawl faster and recover at the same time combined with unbreakable there is always no mither, unbreakable and that's all I can think of at this moment but there are things to do that could easily help and if you don't know them why are you even complaining since you apparently only know the few things you use and don't care anyways. still it's better than some of the killers have.
thing is for every 4 players playing survivor there is one player that is playing killer. are the killers supposed to just roll up and let the survivors win every time? let me guess this is along the lines of iri head hatches, billy and bubba, ONI and Spirit and Nurse as well... lets just get rid of the ones people don't like to play against. well if that's the case, lets get rid of things the killers don't like to play against. we are playing a game with two sides, doesn't matter that 4 people don't like what 1 person does, because there are thousands of players playing killer and thousands of players playing survivor. many of those play both sides. so you can't make it a he said, she said issue (or what ever pronouns you want to use) but you know it's always this is tooo hard for survivors, yet I see survivors getting out, i wonder why that is if this is such an issue. I'm not saying that it's perfect as it is FAR from perfect, but you place too much emphasis on one person when it's other people that also factor into the issue.
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You're assuming a lot, friend.
Oni is fine. Spirit is not fun to play against. A god Nurse also isn't much fun to play against but they're so rare it doesn't matter.
Iri heads and ebony moris are obviously broken and anyone who says otherwise isn't arguing in good faith.
You know what else, though? Keys are broken and unfun. DS as it currently exists is broken and unfun. There are other perks, especially when stacked by SWFs, that are not fun.
Thing is, everyone who's paying attention already knows all that.
I'm not interested in pointing out, ad nauseum, what everyone already knows.
What I am interested in is pointing out this trend in killer design that I believe is going to slowly throttle the game if it continues in the long term. I think that keys and moris will be relatively simple to rework when the devs get around to it. Plenty of people have already pointed out commonsense changes to Spirit that would make her a little more interactive. Perks like DS should also be relatively simple to make a little less exploitable, even if some survivors will be salty.
But deathslinger, pyramid head, and now the twins have all been released with killer powers that make them unfun and noninteractive to play against for survivors (note I'm not saying they're necessarily "overpowered", just unfun). That's something I think is worth discussing. I play plenty of killer myself, this isn't about one side vs the other for me--it's about the health of the game and ensuring both sides have a good time, which is totally possible, it just doesn't seem to be something that's being prioritized as much as it should be.
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pyramid head and deathslinger have powers that make them unfun and noninteractive to play against for survivors you too should be careful what you are saying, *I PERSONALLY*, as well as many of those I play with and talk with, enjoy going against these killers as it helps hone skills of avoidance and escape. You may not like them but hey guess what! you are not everyone and you can not speak about everyone (your statement litterally included me and others that do have fun with these killers on our tail which is incorrect). I included oni and spirit because people complain about them being unfun, broken, and other things. I was being a generalist where as you went to the specific. I also have fun against iri head huntress, I treat it as a challenge to dodge as I can and if i'm downed i'm downed.
This is a game. if you are finding something unfun, please feel free to move on to something that will give you the fun. Overwatch from my understanding is not fun to many now, but still there are those that are having lots of fun with it. I am gonna be blunt here but I don't see the "slow throttling" what I do see is a great deal of survivors complaining and they are hardly touched (but still touched none the less) while killers are given mediocre abilities unless you are high tier capability, as well as things that just do not help while the survivors get all the tools to win but we are told to deal with it. then these topics come along and it always devolves into the same thing "killer main" vs "Survivor main" and yes you have brought up both sides in your post I will acknowledge that and applaud you for that because not many here do. I also will admit your brought up more things, but some items you brought up end up being ignored and rarely does anyone outside of the killer main group say that DS needs to be changed, so be aware of what things happen here but you were not one side or the other which is very refreshing.
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You type a lot of words, but in the end you're refusing to engage with the substance of what I'm saying, and instead you're offering all these whataboutisms and the classic "if you don't like, it leave." I'm not actually ready to leave the game, thanks, I still find it fun--it's just certain killers I don't enjoy playing against as a survivor, which is what we're talking about here. Is it your position that anyone with anything critical to say about the game should just stop playing? That's not a very productive attitude, friend.
I'm sorry to say, but in my experience--and again, nobody has anything but personal/anecdotal experiences to draw on here, it's not like anyone's taken a poll of the entire playerbase--survivors playing at a reasonably high level don't enjoy playing against the killers I've mentioned, for one very simple reason.
They take chases, which are the primary form of interactive gameplay you have as a survivor, and make them far less interactive (read: less options, less mindgames, less to do) than other killers. I'm glad you manage to find it in you to take even broken mechanics like iridescent heads and find something to have fun with, but do you really think you're anything but a tiny minority in that sense? Similarly, I'm glad you can play against killers like deathslinger and pyramid head who have no real counterplay in chases and practice your skills of "avoidance and escape." There are many players--killers included--who, to put it very plainly, despise stealth gameplay. If you look at the kind of content that people like to watch, which I think is a decent metric for what keeps people interested in the game, I don't think you'll find many stealthy highlight compilations. You'll find good chases and jukes. People aren't putting thousands of hours into this game to hide in a bush.
And we haven't even touched on the fact that the Twins are actively encouraged to facecamp or at least proxy-camp every single hook by design. Are you seriously going to argue that that's healthy for the game?
I'm not sure us continuing to discuss these issues is going to be productive, because my experiences and knowledge of the game and playerbase is telling me that these killers are unfun to play against for the reasons I've outlined, and yours are telling you the opposite. In the absence of hard data, we're at an impasse.
That said, from everything I've heard, seen, watched, and experienced, I think how I feel is more in line with how the majority of the playerbase feels. But since I've got no way to convince you and you have no way of convincing me, I'll leave it at that.
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Heal.
I been playing them pretty much nonstop. Heal. That's what you need to do. I know Survivors are neck deep in the gen rush and no heal meta, but that's how you stop Victor from snowballing. Or buddy up. David and Steve together? Victor slaps Steve down. David rushes over and turns him into goop with a kick. Big Sis has to be close to stop David from healing Steve back up off the ground. Or else she'll have to start making her way over. Steve dodges the little gremlin? Now he's goop at Steve's feet and David is still doing the gen.
Most matches that I get a snowball with Victor is cause the Survivors are too greedy for the gens to bother healing and get caught out. It's more so the Survivor's fault than the Killer's.
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This is a good point, and coordinated teams have more they can do against the Twins, but good luck in solo Q where red ranks are dropping pallets on Legions in frenzy. Also, I've seen a lot of Twins running sloppy and ruin undying, which pretty much counters the "just heal" strategy. None of this addresses the fact that the Twins, when played optimally, camp or proxy camp every single hook.
Also, if survivors are "dodging" Victor with any regularity that Twins player is doing something wrong.
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Mate, you can't say slugging has no downside, c'mon.
Slugging takes more time to kill the survivor than a hook.
Slugging has no emblems, you need hooks to get them, and if you slug to kill the team in 1 or 2 hooks you are sacrificing your emblem.
There are perks that counter slug.
People picking up slugged survs takes about the same time it takes to save from hook, it only takes more if the slugged wasn't healing.
Slug is NEEDED in a heavily survivor meta, and it will get worse when they nerf undying and the other stuff they are preparing to nerf on the killer side.
Everytime a survivor ask to nerf something on the killer side, Killers have to be more and more effective and give survivors less chances to play the match, it is 100% on the community asking to nerf an already struggling side.
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Put a farther limit to Char's hook range switch and make it so Victor will despawn if a Survivor is hooked too close to him. Victor needs to be able to take down locker hiding players, he's already running the risk of being squashed or downing someone too far from Char.
Ruin/Undying has not effect on healing, so I don't know why that was brought up. It's far more powerful on higher mobility Killers like Blight or Spirit. Sloppy helps Victor track. He can't see scratch marks... another reason to bother healing. Solos should bring medkits anyway, I do.
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I never said slugging takes longer than dying on hook. Where did I say that?
I said it has no Downside. As in it is FREE pressure where one action can be done with little to no downside. I’m arguing the ability to slug so freely, I’m not comparing it to anything else.
Funny how you bring up survivor “meta” when the meta only exists because of the killer’s built in mechanics. Because I can guarantee you not everyone is keen on bringing BT or DS every match but we both know once there is no obsession it’s like a tunnel buffet for many killers.
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so they will slug and then hook. there already is a a time limit victor can be out and not controlled, there are several ways that survivors can get victor to go back including the kick, pallet and after 45 seconds of being on their back. you want to hamstring someone even more? wow.
I did not say anyone with anything critical to say about the game should leave but instead I said if you were bored with the game then leave. why play a game that is boring to you? It seems that you are the one that is not being open minded. You can be critical of the game and still be respectful (people are very disrespectful here on the forums, please note I did not say you were), you can make suggestions without being flippant, and discuss things without wanting to insult others. I did not insult you and yet you are the one telling me how I am thinking. If no one has anything but anecdotal information then you are one too. What is fun for you may not be fun for me and the same vice versa, you can not dictate to me what fun should be like and I never did that what so ever I only talked about what I know and have seen here on the forums.
Speaking of Stealth game play and what people find exciting to watch that is a laugh though because I love stealth game play. why? because it's a challenge to stay unnoticed. and there is an emblem that even talks about not being seen by the killer and it only takes into account the idea of winning a chase yet how is that "not seen" by a killer. I will go in, save, heal, gens, totems, get in chases etc as I see it is needed. many times the killer is hooking someone on the other side of the match and i'm on a gen, when i get off the gen to go safe they are almost immediately rescued and i then have to go back to my gen. then I have to move to another gen once that one is done and move on. As killer the only stealth that irritates me is the fact that two people decide that they should no longer further the game and they stealth and take the game hostage at that point because a killer that isn't doc can't flush them out. Now about people "WATCHING" the game, that's great they want to see chases, jukes and mind games but I don't play by who is watching me play I play the way I feel is necessary. oh and about stealth again when it's the final one AND the killer there is the hatch open that the killer can close to push the game to a closure because of EGC but when there are 2 and they aren't working on gens anymore then why should it be ok to hold the game hostage just to try and win?
and you know your feelings is inline with over 30K or more of the player base? or just the ones that post here? and to be honest I've seen streamers talk about this and they don't camp or proxy camp the hooks and they do just fine with the twins. I've got over 3K hours in the game and as you said I feel my ideas are inline with over half the player base because they mirror many people that talk here, many streamers and people that I know. as to camping, did I say it was healthy? I did not I said it was allowed just like slugging, just like tunneling and honestly if I need to put pressure on someone i'm going to do what I need to in order to bring the game to a close, I personally don't see what face camping does though unless you have insta downs to multiply your hooks. proxy camping is a lovely term, I will hook someone and if I suspect someone is in the area I will check all around and then finally leave when i clear the area. That is just being smart not camping what so ever yet I'm a camper when I do that. I think you and I can claim to be in tune with over half the player base but it's a baseless claim because you don't know the mind of over 30,000 people and the number here on the forum number about 1-10% of the active player database. I placed my claim solely to show you how ridiculous that claim is, not that I think that to be hones and I showed how it is here as well. I think you may have hit the nail on the head saying that it's almost pointless to talk to someone who won't consider opinions of other people which you are not doing when you summarily dismiss mine by saying that i'm not engaging, that I'm saying whataboutisms (as you say) and totally and utterly intentionally misreading my statement to make your statements and opinions more truthful. You will notice that I did not do that with you I just discussed your points with my counter points. enjoy!
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How about YOU try playing as the twins?
Getting gen rushed and dodged just to get literally stomped into goo.
Change your play style, or switch to killer.
But complaining about valid tactics not being fun won't sway anybody.
You can only control you.
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Balanced?
It's DEAD by Daylight. Not SURVIVE by daylight.
Survivor mains crying about balance when y'all have swf and 3rd person perspective. The killer is all alone.
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